To challenge for promotion this season. The togetherness of last seasons squad is still there, so is the fight, and although he likes a good whinge, the commitment of our Serbian coach.
However..
After all the old usual chat from Tony & Co. at the FST dinner, are their promises of backing the coach, still going to happen?
After today, give us 2-3 decent players, and we'll defo be challenging for promotion.
Can't think of a more glorious opportunity, but feel, we'll most likely be let down once again. Hope I'm wrong.
yes, it is an opportunity but we do need a couple of top new players, it is early days but we have not yet seen that sparkling form we showed in the second half of last season.
We haven't, first 5-6 games are always a mixed bag of results, however, Newcastle lost their first 2, but I feel and sense the team still have that togetherness, and we'll come good.
We all know that we fell short last season, by the same 2-3 players that we require now, and for crying out loud a proper striker.
Just think it'd be criminal for Kahn not to come up trumps in the next few weeks and really back us.
Agree, we'll not get a better chance after this season. I feel Khan and his ambition to get us up on a shoe string budget will take its toll. We were lucky to avoid injuries for the best part of last season, we obviously will struggle if we get a few long term injuries to key players.
We all know Khan will fail to deliver, he has not produced what's needed from day 1. It's sad to say I believe we will not be going up for a long time if we don't this season. And when or if we do... It'll be because we're under new ownership, where the chairman actually attends the games on a regular basis too.
It has very little to do with not wanting to spend or back us. More to do with finding the right players and then persuading them to come. We seem to be either going for players above our pay grade who are more likely wanted by Prem clubs. Or players that are not quite good enough to hold down a first team place and end up as squad players.
Either way the time is a ticking.
I'm not really sure why people continue to question Khan's commitment to us, he has spent a fortune on us. Albeit not always wisely, but he can't be accused of not spending.
As Lighthouse says, it's more about obtaining the right sort of player that seems to be the issue which could even be seen as ambitious from certain angles...
It's very clear to see we only need those 2-3 players to make the difference, but also clear the club has consistently had a sustainability approach that might not deliver.
Longer term they will eventually lose the plot if we don't get promoted. But of course, all those players that are key now will be 28, so good riddence of course at that point.
If Khan is so committed as some people seem to think he is.
How come our squad is small, lightweight and Short of players and how come after all this time, we are still waiting to bring in a striker, a centre back and a left back.
This of course is assuming the Khans have any genuine interest in bringing in the players to give us a chance and an opportunity of going up this season.
Time will tell and soon. I am only reserving judgement/restraining myself from re-joining the slag parade on the Khan's until after the window closes, and they will have had more than ample time to deliver.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on August 14, 2017, 04:30:04 PM
If Khan is so committed as some people seem to think he is.
How come our squad is small, lightweight and Short of players and how come after all this time, we are still waiting to bring in a striker, a centre back and a left back.
This of course is assuming the Khans have any genuine interest in bringing in the players to give us a chance and an opportunity of going up this season.
We see this all the time, the squad is thin, but do you really mean quality instead of thin?
what constitutes a thin squad? is it numbers? Is it quality?
How many GK's does a squad need and of what experience? We have two first team GK's and couple of raw youngsters. Do we need a third older one? Last season we used two and that was all. Do you really need a third old head taking wages for maybe only turning out twice?
Defenders. We have four CB's, 5 until Siggs left. Think we are all agreed one more who would be a challenge for a starting place would be nice, but that's only because we don't know how the new guy will do. But we do have 4 at the moment.
Full backs, Odoi is the new Baird, looks like a LB coming in so you would have 4 then to cover the two positions, enough?
Midfield, lets call that the main 3 and now we have two who seemingly look decent. Then you have youngsters like Edun who shows promise. Are we covered there?
Attackers and wider players. Kebano, Ayite, Aluko, Woodrow, Kamara, Piazon. Then you have Del Torre who could play here or AM. That's ignoring Sess who could move forward at times if we get a LB or play Odoi there for a bit. Id say this is more quality issue (woodrow) than being thin. but 6+ for 3 positions is enough
So how many short? 3 maybe?.....2 defenders and a striker?
Would that remove the comment of thin?
Quote from: MJG on August 14, 2017, 06:48:50 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on August 14, 2017, 04:30:04 PM
If Khan is so committed as some people seem to think he is.
How come our squad is small, lightweight and Short of players and how come after all this time, we are still waiting to bring in a striker, a centre back and a left back.
This of course is assuming the Khans have any genuine interest in bringing in the players to give us a chance and an opportunity of going up this season.
We see this all the time, the squad is thin, but do you really mean quality instead of thin?
what constitutes a thin squad? is it numbers? Is it quality?
How many GK's does a squad need and of what experience? We have two first team GK's and couple of raw youngsters. Do we need a third older one? Last season we used two and that was all. Do you really need a third old head taking wages for maybe only turning out twice?
Defenders. We have four CB's, 5 until Siggs left. Think we are all agreed one more who would be a challenge for a starting place would be nice, but that's only because we don't know how the new guy will do. But we do have 4 at the moment.
Full backs, Odoi is the new Baird, looks like a LB coming in so you would have 4 then to cover the two positions, enough?
Midfield, lets call that the main 3 and now we have two who seemingly look decent. Then you have youngsters like Edun who shows promise. Are we covered there?
Attackers and wider players. Kebano, Ayite, Aluko, Woodrow, Kamara, Piazon. Then you have Del Torre who could play here or AM. That's ignoring Sess who could move forward at times if we get a LB or play Odoi there for a bit. Id say this is more quality issue (woodrow) than being thin. but 6+ for 3 positions is enough
So how many short? 3 maybe?.....2 defenders and a striker?
Would that remove the comment of thin?
By thin I think we refer to the fact that players who would considered first team players are thin on the ground. But since January we have needed a central defender and forward. I have always added keeper to that. But Button may well have decided to make that a less needed outlay. I still am not happy about central defence. But again Ream has continued where he left of last season. But thin means thin as far as recognised first team players who could be knocking on the door to a first 11 place.
Quote from: fcfulham55 on August 14, 2017, 01:25:58 PM
Agree, we'll not get a better chance after this season. I feel Khan and his ambition to get us up on a shoe string budget will take its toll. We were lucky to avoid injuries for the best part of last season, we obviously will struggle if we get a few long term injuries to key players.
We all know Khan will fail to deliver, he has not produced what's needed from day 1. It's sad to say I believe we will not be going up for a long time if we don't this season. And when or if we do... It'll be because we're under new ownership, where the chairman actually attends the games on a regular basis too.
Why does the Chairman have to actually attend games on a regular basis? He lives in America, and who would that new ownership be? someone like the Venkys at Blackburn? Be thankful for what you've got so far and be careful what you wish for!!
Quote from: MJG on August 14, 2017, 06:48:50 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on August 14, 2017, 04:30:04 PM
If Khan is so committed as some people seem to think he is.
How come our squad is small, lightweight and Short of players and how come after all this time, we are still waiting to bring in a striker, a centre back and a left back.
This of course is assuming the Khans have any genuine interest in bringing in the players to give us a chance and an opportunity of going up this season.
We see this all the time, the squad is thin, but do you really mean quality instead of thin?
what constitutes a thin squad? is it numbers? Is it quality?
How many GK's does a squad need and of what experience? We have two first team GK's and couple of raw youngsters. Do we need a third older one? Last season we used two and that was all. Do you really need a third old head taking wages for maybe only turning out twice?
Defenders. We have four CB's, 5 until Siggs left. Think we are all agreed one more who would be a challenge for a starting place would be nice, but that's only because we don't know how the new guy will do. But we do have 4 at the moment.
Full backs, Odoi is the new Baird, looks like a LB coming in so you would have 4 then to cover the two positions, enough?
Midfield, lets call that the main 3 and now we have two who seemingly look decent. Then you have youngsters like Edun who shows promise. Are we covered there?
Attackers and wider players. Kebano, Ayite, Aluko, Woodrow, Kamara, Piazon. Then you have Del Torre who could play here or AM. That's ignoring Sess who could move forward at times if we get a LB or play Odoi there for a bit. Id say this is more quality issue (woodrow) than being thin. but 6+ for 3 positions is enough
So how many short? 3 maybe?.....2 defenders and a striker?
Would that remove the comment of thin?
I concur with most of what you are trying to say. We seem to agree on most observations. I have no problem if we do not sign a Goalkeeper. Button Betts and Rodak will suffice for me.
I have no qualms with the midfield.
So that leaves three issues, the strike force, and the defence, plus injuries and cover of the unexpected, and we have had an issue with all three for far too long.
In my humble opinion we need another striker, we need a left back and we most certainly need a Centre back that would be challenging for a starting place.
The strikervand the left back speak for themselves. We most certainly need those positions resolved asap.
Nevertheless, the Centre Back for me priority.
Because even when both Ream and Kalas are playing together, we always look as though we will concede, and we do.
You have go back about 17 League matches, if I have done my research correctly, to find our last clean sheet v Rotherham of all teams, and we were lucky on the day to achieve that.
Djalo is new and I am told he needs time to bed in, and what I have seen of him, it's going to be quite a while, my question is, why sign these players who need so much time.
Then of course there is Madl, who I feel is ok, but he is a bit of a sick note.
So no decent cover really, and now that Kalas will serve a suspension, suddenly decisions have to be made, who will cover, and Odoi may be a better bet.
Then of course there is a concern from me of players sustaining injuries which has already disrupted the lineups already in both League games. Tom Cairney and Kevin McDonald already have missed games.
So the defence especially is cause for concern. We are thin on the ground for quality at the back, and up front.
3 more is the minimum requirement, if we do not bring the required players in, then an unexpected injury list will undermine our chances of promotion, and that would be a tragedy. Because this time next year, if we have not been promoted, I fear we will lose our Crown Jewels, and it's back to the drawing board.
Apart from possibly having faith in some of the promising youngsters coming through, I cannot see how we can stage a serious attempt to get promoted, unless we sign a minimum of those 3 positions, avoiding any player that is already injured when we sign him, and does not take a lifetime to settle.
Which means I shall not hold my breath because I have been here too many times.
Quote from: Lighthouse on August 14, 2017, 06:59:06 PM
Quote from: MJG on August 14, 2017, 06:48:50 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on August 14, 2017, 04:30:04 PM
If Khan is so committed as some people seem to think he is.
How come our squad is small, lightweight and Short of players and how come after all this time, we are still waiting to bring in a striker, a centre back and a left back.
This of course is assuming the Khans have any genuine interest in bringing in the players to give us a chance and an opportunity of going up this season.
We see this all the time, the squad is thin, but do you really mean quality instead of thin?
what constitutes a thin squad? is it numbers? Is it quality?
How many GK's does a squad need and of what experience? We have two first team GK's and couple of raw youngsters. Do we need a third older one? Last season we used two and that was all. Do you really need a third old head taking wages for maybe only turning out twice?
Defenders. We have four CB's, 5 until Siggs left. Think we are all agreed one more who would be a challenge for a starting place would be nice, but that's only because we don't know how the new guy will do. But we do have 4 at the moment.
Full backs, Odoi is the new Baird, looks like a LB coming in so you would have 4 then to cover the two positions, enough?
Midfield, lets call that the main 3 and now we have two who seemingly look decent. Then you have youngsters like Edun who shows promise. Are we covered there?
Attackers and wider players. Kebano, Ayite, Aluko, Woodrow, Kamara, Piazon. Then you have Del Torre who could play here or AM. That's ignoring Sess who could move forward at times if we get a LB or play Odoi there for a bit. Id say this is more quality issue (woodrow) than being thin. but 6+ for 3 positions is enough
So how many short? 3 maybe?.....2 defenders and a striker?
Would that remove the comment of thin?
By thin I think we refer to the fact that players who would considered first team players are thin on the ground. But since January we have needed a central defender and forward. I have always added keeper to that. But Button may well have decided to make that a less needed outlay. I still am not happy about central defence. But again Ream has continued where he left of last season. But thin means thin as far as recognised first team players who could be knocking on the door to a first 11 place.
let's take the CB position... Feb 1st we had four first team CB's that's not thin in number but maybe lacking in the quality some want.
Kalas, Ream, Madl and Siggurdson no matter how you look at it are four decent CB's in their own ways. Ok Sigg didn't work out and there are factors there to be taken into consideration.
Do you expect say a squad of 22( two for each position) to have the ability to all start and not lessen the quality by much? If so then we are almost there. But again, I'd say that's more a quality issue rather than numbers point of view.
Button-Betts
Fredericks - Odoi
Sessegnon -??
Kalas-Madl
Ream-Djalo
McDonald - Cisse
Johansen - Norwood
Cairney - Edun? Torre?
Aluko-Piazon
Kamara-Woodrow
Ayite-Kebano
Now I know players can move around positions and a second XIon it's own at championship level may struggle, but are we close? Especially when you consider some other quality youngsters, when on their own put in a team I'd trust them.
Quote from: Keynsham on August 14, 2017, 03:36:29 PM
I'm not really sure why people continue to question Khan's commitment to us, he has spent a fortune on us. Albeit not always wisely, but he can't be accused of not spending.
As Lighthouse says, it's more about obtaining the right sort of player that seems to be the issue which could even be seen as ambitious from certain angles...
He spent a fortune on buying the club (agreed), but how much has he spent (net after transfers out) since he bought the club?
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on August 14, 2017, 07:26:59 PM
Quote from: MJG on August 14, 2017, 06:48:50 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on August 14, 2017, 04:30:04 PM
If Khan is so committed as some people seem to think he is.
How come our squad is small, lightweight and Short of players and how come after all this time, we are still waiting to bring in a striker, a centre back and a left back.
This of course is assuming the Khans have any genuine interest in bringing in the players to give us a chance and an opportunity of going up this season.
We see this all the time, the squad is thin, but do you really mean quality instead of thin?
what constitutes a thin squad? is it numbers? Is it quality?
How many GK's does a squad need and of what experience? We have two first team GK's and couple of raw youngsters. Do we need a third older one? Last season we used two and that was all. Do you really need a third old head taking wages for maybe only turning out twice?
Defenders. We have four CB's, 5 until Siggs left. Think we are all agreed one more who would be a challenge for a starting place would be nice, but that's only because we don't know how the new guy will do. But we do have 4 at the moment.
Full backs, Odoi is the new Baird, looks like a LB coming in so you would have 4 then to cover the two positions, enough?
Midfield, lets call that the main 3 and now we have two who seemingly look decent. Then you have youngsters like Edun who shows promise. Are we covered there?
Attackers and wider players. Kebano, Ayite, Aluko, Woodrow, Kamara, Piazon. Then you have Del Torre who could play here or AM. That's ignoring Sess who could move forward at times if we get a LB or play Odoi there for a bit. Id say this is more quality issue (woodrow) than being thin. but 6+ for 3 positions is enough
So how many short? 3 maybe?.....2 defenders and a striker?
Would that remove the comment of thin?
I concur with most of what you are trying to say. We seem to agree on most observations. I have no problem if we do not sign a Goalkeeper. Button Betts and Rodak will suffice for me.
I have no qualms with the midfield.
So that leaves three issues, the strike force, and the defence, plus injuries and cover of the unexpected, and we have had an issue with all three for far too long.
In my humble opinion we need another striker, we need a left back and we most certainly need a Centre back that would be challenging for a starting place.
The strikervand the left back speak for themselves. We most certainly need those positions resolved asap.
Nevertheless, the Centre Back for me priority.
Because even when both Ream and Kalas are playing together, we always look as though we will concede, and we do.
You have go back about 17 League matches, if I have done my research correctly, to find our last clean sheet v Rotherham of all teams, and we were lucky on the day to achieve that.
Djalo is new and I am told he needs time to very in, and what I have seen of him, it's going to be quite a while, my question is, why sign these players who need so much time.
Then of course there is Madl, who I feel is ok, but he is a bit of a sick note.
So no decent cover really, and now that Kalas will serve a suspension, suddenly decisions have to be made, who will cover, and Odoi may be a better bet.
Then of course there is a concern from me of players sustaining injuries which has already disrupted the lineups already in both League games. Tom Cairney and Kevin McDonald already have missed games.
So the defence especially is cause for concern. We are thin on the ground for quality at the back, and up front.
3 more is the minimum requirement, if we do not bring the required players in, then an unexpected injury list will undermine our chances of promotion, and that would be a tragedy. Because this time next year, if we have not been promoted, I fear we will lose our Crown Jewels, and it's back to the drawing board.
Apart from possibly having faith in some of the promising youngsters coming through, I cannot see how we can stage a serious attempt to get promoted, unless we sign a minimum of those 3 positions, avoiding any player that is already injured when we sign him, and does not take a lifetime to settle.
Which means I shall not hold my breath because I have been here too many times.
that's fair, it's bad luck to lose two CB's as we have this weekend. Hopefully Madl will be back. I expect Djalo will be fit choice come Sept first.
Currently safe to say if we all were asked to name a starting XI, vast majority could name nine starters from the squad. If you lose one of them so be it, two is unlucky and three would be very bad. But we have covered those missing over last two games. Test is Tuesday, especially at back because of Djalo.
But good debate and thanks for answer.
Quote from: davew on August 14, 2017, 07:28:27 PM
Quote from: Keynsham on August 14, 2017, 03:36:29 PM
I'm not really sure why people continue to question Khan's commitment to us, he has spent a fortune on us. Albeit not always wisely, but he can't be accused of not spending.
As Lighthouse says, it's more about obtaining the right sort of player that seems to be the issue which could even be seen as ambitious from certain angles...
He spent a fortune on buying the club (agreed), but how much has he spent (net after transfers out) since he bought the club?
Dave you know yourself it's not as black and white on spending as that. He has put money in and we have spent as much as we could pretty much afford given all the usual FFP and accounts issues.
Quote from: MJG on August 14, 2017, 07:35:54 PM
Quote from: davew on August 14, 2017, 07:28:27 PM
Quote from: Keynsham on August 14, 2017, 03:36:29 PM
I'm not really sure why people continue to question Khan's commitment to us, he has spent a fortune on us. Albeit not always wisely, but he can't be accused of not spending.
As Lighthouse says, it's more about obtaining the right sort of player that seems to be the issue which could even be seen as ambitious from certain angles...
He spent a fortune on buying the club (agreed), but how much has he spent (net after transfers out) since he bought the club?
Dave you know yourself it's not as black and white on spending as that. He has put money in and we have spent as much as we could pretty much afford given all the usual FFP and accounts issues.
Agreed, nice to see you back on here!!
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on August 14, 2017, 04:30:04 PM
If Khan is so committed as some people seem to think he is.
How come our squad is small, lightweight and Short of players and how come after all this time, we are still waiting to bring in a striker, a centre back and a left back.
This of course is assuming the Khans have any genuine interest in bringing in the players to give us a chance and an opportunity of going up this season.
Didn't you say similar things last summer? :dead horse:
Quote from: YankeeJim on August 14, 2017, 09:47:15 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on August 14, 2017, 04:30:04 PM
If Khan is so committed as some people seem to think he is.
How come our squad is small, lightweight and Short of players and how come after all this time, we are still waiting to bring in a striker, a centre back and a left back.
This of course is assuming the Khans have any genuine interest in bringing in the players to give us a chance and an opportunity of going up this season.
Didn't you say similar things last summer? :dead horse:
Yes I believe I did, so nothing's changed, we are still treading water, and just waiting to be over taken, which appears to be inevitable, if reinforcements are not brought in.
So I expect to be flogging the deceased horse again next year, and by then the horse would have just about got fed up with being flogged, and when he does, I shall tell him it's all Mr Khan his son, and his sons best mates fault.
A clinical finisher and a left back. Clinical finishers don't exactly grow on trees though.
Quote from: Statto on August 14, 2017, 06:07:31 PM
Last year I was of the view that on balance, he probably wasn't putting any new cash into the club, but the spending on facilities since then has swayed me.
Yes, sorry I probably should have been a little clearer there. I did mean overall. And I would guess (and it would be a guess so happy to stand corrected) there was also something of a big loss when in the Premier League too.
It is all supposition to a certain degree really though I suppose, and I for one can't risk getting into a situation where I am banned without reason again so won't push any point too hard!
Jokas got more patience than me. If it was me I would have smashed up the furniture and walked by now.
Quote from: the nutflush on August 15, 2017, 10:26:45 AM
A clinical finisher and a left back. Clinical finishers don't exactly grow on trees though.
Have you seen my Orchard recently ?
Quote from: the nutflush on August 15, 2017, 10:47:04 AM
Jokas got more patience than me. If it was me I would have smashed up the furniture and walked by now.
He may well still do that, as there is a limit to what I feel he will put up with. It cannot be easy working with the likes of Kline.
We have plenty of players in each position as MJG CORRECTLY outlined. What I think we lack is better balance with the type of player. As said previously we lack an out and out goalscorer. A target man or fox in the box type. Mourne would have been perfect and if we had offered more could we have got him before it was too late ? Also a commanding central defender, a guy who will boss the game, organise and be a threat at set pieces. There is more to FFP than just transfer fees, i.e. wages, however we do not want to spend more than we can get away with and I fear this could be holding us back.
Quote from: FulhamStu on August 15, 2017, 11:53:45 AM
We have plenty of players in each position as MJG CORRECTLY outlined. What I think we lack is better balance with the type of player. As said previously we lack an out and out goalscorer. A target man or fox in the box type. Mourne would have been perfect and if we had offered more could we have got him before it was too late ? Also a commanding central defender, a guy who will boss the game, organise and be a threat at set pieces. There is more to FFP than just transfer fees, i.e. wages, however we do not want to spend more than we can get away with and I fear this could be holding us back.
As you say, a commanding Centre Back that can marshal the defence, and be a threat at set pieces is imperative to Fulham at this stage, and for the season.
