It was great to watch the last few moments with the Swedes drawing out every foul, rolling about the floor.... ohh the sweet, sweet irony.
092.gif They just did not seem like they were going to score tonight. Sweden's time-wasting was so Bolton-esk.
Funny old game! 096.gig
Can't believe people would rather have boring Sweden in the world cup, very strange...
Quote from: ex-Pat on November 13, 2017, 11:02:56 PM
Can't believe people would rather have boring Sweden in the world cup, very strange...
The Swedish people may disagree with you there.
Plus have you seen their women lately.
It has been said many times but 'funny old game'. I can remember at several of the early coaching courses I went on the wannabes turned up in the blue Italia tops with the collar and the coaches and mentors waxed lyrically about the Dutch system.
What next I wonder? Have to say I am liking the injection of youth into the tired and stale English system.
Over here, the consensus team that should miss the tournament rather than Italy is England.
I don't agree with the consensus.
Wow - a World Cup without both Italy and the Netherlands.. Never thought I'd see it.
Sweden effectively knocked both out as well!
Next step is hopefully effectively Fulham FC. Something I would like to see already against Derby.
COYWs!
Quote from: HatterDon on November 14, 2017, 12:21:34 AM
Over here, the consensus team that should miss the tournament rather than Italy is England.
I don't agree with the consensus.
Why should England miss out? We qualified... properly, not through the playoffs like Italy couldn't even manage.
See you guys in 2022, if you make that one ;)
Quote from: Count Flapula on November 14, 2017, 02:24:15 AM
Wow - a World Cup without both Italy and the Netherlands.. Never thought I'd see it.
Sweden effectively knocked both out as well!
Netherlands have been poor for years. They also missed out on Euro 2016
Quote from: ScalleysDad on November 13, 2017, 11:54:32 PM
It has been said many times but 'funny old game'. I can remember at several of the early coaching courses I went on the wannabes turned up in the blue Italia tops with the collar and the coaches and mentors waxed lyrically about the Dutch system.
What next I wonder? Have to say I am liking the injection of youth into the tired and stale English system.
I wonder if that's a result of the St George's Park initiative.
As an brit living in sweden i can say that it was quite an achievement for the Swedes. Not many of their starting eleven would get into our Side.
Quote from: Holders on November 14, 2017, 09:59:10 AM
Quote from: ScalleysDad on November 13, 2017, 11:54:32 PM
It has been said many times but 'funny old game'. I can remember at several of the early coaching courses I went on the wannabes turned up in the blue Italia tops with the collar and the coaches and mentors waxed lyrically about the Dutch system.
What next I wonder? Have to say I am liking the injection of youth into the tired and stale English system.
I wonder if that's a result of the St George's Park initiative.
It would be a great result if it was. I think Southgate has learned a lesson from his predecessors, indeed he referred to the players getting a chance performing better than some of the established players, in that complacency kills. The performances in qualifying were awful but England are there now so will he adopt a more attacking approach to games? I hope so but it is still very possible the media and expectations will insist on quarter finals or bust and the group stages might revert to grinding out a result.
Having worked through numerous FA reviews from the 90's onwards I hope this is the real deal. The 17's, 19's, 21's and seniors all world class at the same time? It might just make football interesting again.
Quote from: ScalleysDad on November 14, 2017, 12:22:54 PM
Quote from: Holders on November 14, 2017, 09:59:10 AM
Quote from: ScalleysDad on November 13, 2017, 11:54:32 PM
It has been said many times but 'funny old game'. I can remember at several of the early coaching courses I went on the wannabes turned up in the blue Italia tops with the collar and the coaches and mentors waxed lyrically about the Dutch system.
What next I wonder? Have to say I am liking the injection of youth into the tired and stale English system.
I wonder if that's a result of the St George's Park initiative.
It would be a great result if it was. I think Southgate has learned a lesson from his predecessors, indeed he referred to the players getting a chance performing better than some of the established players, in that complacency kills. The performances in qualifying were awful but England are there now so will he adopt a more attacking approach to games? I hope so but it is still very possible the media and expectations will insist on quarter finals or bust and the group stages might revert to grinding out a result.
Having worked through numerous FA reviews from the 90's onwards I hope this is the real deal. The 17's, 19's, 21's and seniors all world class at the same time? It might just make football interesting again.
As long as Southgate gives some of the youngsters a chance,Putting Hart in does not bode well after Pickfords display the other night, we need people who WANT to play for England, still have PRIDE pulling on the shirt
Quote from: epsomraver on November 14, 2017, 12:45:23 PM
Quote from: ScalleysDad on November 14, 2017, 12:22:54 PM
Quote from: Holders on November 14, 2017, 09:59:10 AM
Quote from: ScalleysDad on November 13, 2017, 11:54:32 PM
It has been said many times but 'funny old game'. I can remember at several of the early coaching courses I went on the wannabes turned up in the blue Italia tops with the collar and the coaches and mentors waxed lyrically about the Dutch system.
What next I wonder? Have to say I am liking the injection of youth into the tired and stale English system.
I wonder if that's a result of the St George's Park initiative.
It would be a great result if it was. I think Southgate has learned a lesson from his predecessors, indeed he referred to the players getting a chance performing better than some of the established players, in that complacency kills. The performances in qualifying were awful but England are there now so will he adopt a more attacking approach to games? I hope so but it is still very possible the media and expectations will insist on quarter finals or bust and the group stages might revert to grinding out a result.
Having worked through numerous FA reviews from the 90's onwards I hope this is the real deal. The 17's, 19's, 21's and seniors all world class at the same time? It might just make football interesting again.
As long as Southgate gives some of the youngsters a chance,Putting Hart in does not bode well after Pickfords display the other night, we need people who WANT to play for England, still have PRIDE pulling on the shirt
Yeah he's gotta drop Hart for Pickford. Hart is over the hill and the lesser player.
The Gazzetta dello Sport comments favourably on England's successful 'under' teams and suggests that this is the way forward on how to build for the future. Dumping the clueless Ventura is at least an upside for the national team going forward.
I watched both legs and started rooting for the swedes when Italy got up to all their old cheating tricks in the first leg. Very poor from them. The second leg, the Italians were simply out coached.
With the Dutch out, there won't be any "total" football. Not that its done them, Arsenal or us much good. With Italy out, there won't be as many Oscar awards for diving and knee grabbing. With the US out, there will be a shortage of teams for me to support. England has always been a favorite of mine, even if they are boring to watch (sorry). Guess I'll watch you lot and maybe find a dark horse to ride. Costa Rico anyone?
I thought the USA had a case to appeal against the goal that never was in that Panama game, whereupon, the Panama goal never crossed the line.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on November 14, 2017, 05:06:19 PM
I thought the USA had a case to appeal against the goal that never was in that Panama game, whereupon, the Panama goal never crossed the line.
Yeah, it was fraud but it's been brought to light in the Panama papers ;)
Italy may be naughty boys with their theatrics. However I like them, they bring something different to the game with there cagey, streetwise style.
Quote from: jarv on November 14, 2017, 02:49:09 PM
I watched both legs and started rooting for the swedes when Italy got up to all their old cheating tricks in the first leg. Very poor from them.
As opposed to the nose-breaking Swedes? That said, Italy were inept and, in the first leg at least, short of ambition and and a simple desire to win. They deserved to fail.
I'd rather Italy than Sweden personally
Quote from: Slaphead in Qatar on November 14, 2017, 05:55:40 PM
Italy may be naughty boys with their theatrics. However I like them, they bring something different to the game with there cagey, streetwise style.
Italy will be missed in the final, they were the team a lot of us watched in the hope of seeing them beaten.
I am an Italian cottager....
This is our punishment for all those pencils stolen at Ikea.....
Quote from: YankeeJim on November 14, 2017, 05:00:47 PM
With the Dutch out, there won't be any "total" football. Not that its done them, Arsenal or us much good. With Italy out, there won't be as many Oscar awards for diving and knee grabbing. With the US out, there will be a shortage of teams for me to support. England has always been a favorite of mine, even if they are boring to watch (sorry). Guess I'll watch you lot and maybe find a dark horse to ride. Costa Rico anyone?
How many common places....
Italy won four times the World Cup by diving then?
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on November 14, 2017, 05:06:19 PM
I thought the USA had a case to appeal against the goal that never was in that Panama game, whereupon, the Panama goal never crossed the line.
US win an appeal against a Latin country in COCACAF? 064.gif
Quote from: YankeeJim on November 14, 2017, 11:44:28 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on November 14, 2017, 05:06:19 PM
I thought the USA had a case to appeal against the goal that never was in that Panama game, whereupon, the Panama goal never crossed the line.
US win an appeal against a Latin country in COCACAF? 064.gif
I take your point, but it is so wrong, bordering on corruption.
I cling to the hope that at some point in my lifetime, England win the World Cup so that me and those whom I love, including those who don't normally like football, get to go joyously nuts for some hours, perhaps days. Italy's elimination improves that prospect by a small fraction. So it's a good thing.
Quote from: Carborundum on November 15, 2017, 09:23:32 AM
I cling to the hope that at some point in my lifetime, England win the World Cup so that me and those whom I love, including those who don't normally like football, get to go joyously nuts for some hours, perhaps days. Italy's elimination improves that prospect by a small fraction. So it's a good thing.
I was at Wembley in 1966, and I can assure you that at the time it felt better than sex.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on November 15, 2017, 09:37:50 AM
Quote from: Carborundum on November 15, 2017, 09:23:32 AM
I cling to the hope that at some point in my lifetime, England win the World Cup so that me and those whom I love, including those who don't normally like football, get to go joyously nuts for some hours, perhaps days. Italy's elimination improves that prospect by a small fraction. So it's a good thing.
I was at Wembley in 1966, and I can assure you that at the time it felt better than sex.
And it lasted longer :dft011:
Quote from: SG on November 15, 2017, 12:36:16 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on November 15, 2017, 09:37:50 AM
Quote from: Carborundum on November 15, 2017, 09:23:32 AM
I cling to the hope that at some point in my lifetime, England win the World Cup so that me and those whom I love, including those who don't normally like football, get to go joyously nuts for some hours, perhaps days. Italy's elimination improves that prospect by a small fraction. So it's a good thing.
I was at Wembley in 1966, and I can assure you that at the time it felt better than sex.
And it lasted longer :dft011:
Yes it most certainly did, that's the story of my life.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on November 15, 2017, 12:39:15 PM
Quote from: SG on November 15, 2017, 12:36:16 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on November 15, 2017, 09:37:50 AM
Quote from: Carborundum on November 15, 2017, 09:23:32 AM
I cling to the hope that at some point in my lifetime, England win the World Cup so that me and those whom I love, including those who don't normally like football, get to go joyously nuts for some hours, perhaps days. Italy's elimination improves that prospect by a small fraction. So it's a good thing.
I was at Wembley in 1966, and I can assure you that at the time it felt better than sex.
And it lasted longer :dft011:
Yes it most certainly did, that's the story of my life.
I'm beginning to regret using the construct "me and those whom I love"
Quote from: YankeeJim on November 14, 2017, 05:00:47 PM
With the Dutch out, there won't be any "total" football. Not that its done them, Arsenal or us much good....
In the short term, recently, I'm sure you are right.
But it seems odd to an ancient like me to read that 'total football' has not done the Dutch much good.
When they introduced the idea it elevated the Netherlands from a football backwater to one of the top nations in World football. It showed how the largely defensive tactics prevalent at the time, perfected, ironically, by Italy, could be overcome.
It took the football world by storm and was wondrous to behold. Even the Brazilians were impressed (although they, themselves had been playing a sort of 'total football' for some years) and the ideas of Rinuus Michels, as developed by Cruyff, were influential right down to the present day Barcelona.
Of course it helped to have a supply of super-talented players to make the system possible. Attacking systems usually give rise to more defensive ones in order to negate them that, and fewer talented players emerging, has led to reduced status of the once mighty Dutch.
Quote from: Statto on November 15, 2017, 02:36:59 PM
Quote from: YankeeJim on November 14, 2017, 05:00:47 PM
...."total" football"....
All Credited in no small part to vic Buckingham, many posters' choice on our "least favourite managers" thread
Yes. Vic can be manager of the Fulham "great elsewhere but no use to us" XI.
Plenty of candidates from Archibald to Zuberhuber.
Quote from: Bertie Wooster on November 14, 2017, 10:32:57 PM
Quote from: YankeeJim on November 14, 2017, 05:00:47 PM
With the Dutch out, there won't be any "total" football. Not that its done them, Arsenal or us much good. With Italy out, there won't be as many Oscar awards for diving and knee grabbing. With the US out, there will be a shortage of teams for me to support. England has always been a favorite of mine, even if they are boring to watch (sorry). Guess I'll watch you lot and maybe find a dark horse to ride. Costa Rico anyone?
How many common places....
Italy won four times the World Cup by diving then?
They would call it"gamesmanship" and given the ref, can be effective which is why it is done. To me, its especially sad that a nation which such a surplus of talent still feels the need to cheat. Winning at any cost rings hollow to me. When the ref makes a mistakes such as NI v Swiss, that's one thing but to win it because your striker grabbed a knee is not worth celebrating.
Quote from: YankeeJim on November 15, 2017, 05:37:59 PM
To me, its especially sad that a nation which such a surplus of talent still feels the need to cheat. Winning at any cost rings hollow to me. When the ref makes a mistakes such as NI v Swiss, that's one thing but to win it because your striker grabbed a knee is not worth celebrating.
It is incredible that you are entitled to write such stupid comments on this beautiful forum.
In your opinion Italians do need to cheat to win.
It would be interesting to understand on which bases your opinion is founded.
Probably you support Fulham only for Brian Mc Bride so you do not remember the last time that an American manager won the PL.
Ok, never.
And an English?
Meanwhile two Italian managers, two gentlemen like Carlo Ancelotti and Roberto Mancini, won it.
Without cheating.
Another true gentleman, Gianfranco Zola, won trophies at Chelsea without cheating, according to Queen Elizabeth that awarded him an OBE.
Another gentleman, Gianluca Vialli, won trophies at Chelsea as well, but surely for you he is a cheater.
If there is an English player crude and violent (Joey Barton?) I do not think all English players are like him.
I am not nationalist at all, infact I support an English team and to follow it I spend for every game more than an English fan for a season ticket, but let me tell you that you should rinse your mouth when you talk about a nation that won 4 World Cups, you will never win one.
Quote from: Bertie Wooster on November 15, 2017, 08:52:58 PM
Quote from: YankeeJim on November 15, 2017, 05:37:59 PM
To me, its especially sad that a nation which such a surplus of talent still feels the need to cheat. Winning at any cost rings hollow to me. When the ref makes a mistakes such as NI v Swiss, that's one thing but to win it because your striker grabbed a knee is not worth celebrating.
It is incredible that you are entitled to write such stupid comments on this beautiful forum.
In your opinion Italians do need to cheat to win.
It would be interesting to understand on which bases your opinion is founded.
Probably you support Fulham only for Brian Mc Bride so you do not remember the last time that an American manager won the PL.
Ok, never.
And an English?
Meanwhile two Italian managers, two gentlemen like Carlo Ancelotti and Roberto Mancini, won it.
Without cheating.
Another true gentleman, Gianfranco Zola, won trophies at Chelsea without cheating, according to Queen Elizabeth that awarded him an OBE.
Another gentleman, Gianluca Vialli, won trophies at Chelsea as well, but surely for you he is a cheater.
If there is an English player crude and violent (Joey Barton?) I do not think all English players are like him.
I am not nationalist at all, infact I support an English team and to follow it I spend for every game more than an English fan for a season ticket, but let me tell you that you should rinse your mouth when you talk about a nation that won 4 World Cups, you will never win one.
Damn if I didn't hit someone's sore spot. Ignorant as well. Read posts before you slander them. I never said that Italy needed to cheat to win. I find it sad that with their excess of talent, its very sad that they still cheat. Another poster referenced the sense of fair play that we Americans learned from the English. That is what I'm stressing. I want to win on the up and up. Perhaps English isn't your first language. If so, I apologize for replying in kind.
As to America winning a WC, well, stranger things have happened. Our best athletics go into other sports. American football is on the decline and immigrants to America mostly come from Latin countries so as well as knowing how to grab a knee they can play the game. The future is bright for us. For that matter, the average American over 40 was never exposed to the beautiful game. Since 1992, when our football history really began, we have come a long way. I'm 70 and I will see the US win a WC.
So, let me leave a quute: "It is incredible that you are entitled to write such stupid comments on this beautiful forum."
BTW, chelscum cheats.
Oooooh, sorry for my poor English Professor Jim.
I thought that writing
"sad that a nation which such a surplus of talent still feels the need to cheat. Winning at any cost rings hollow to me",
meant
that Italy need a cheat to win.
But surely I' m wrong.
You are American.
You are fair.
You know everything.
Since 1492.
When America was discovered.
By an Italian.
Full of talent.
But cheater. He thought that it was India!
Tell me the first time you will attend a football game. Live.
Cheers.
Quote from: Bertie Wooster on November 15, 2017, 09:37:30 PM
Oooooh, sorry for my poor English Professor Jim.
I thought that writing
"sad that a nation which such a surplus of talent still feels the need to cheat. Winning at any cost rings hollow to me",
meant
that Italy need a cheat to win.
But surely I' m wrong.
You are American.
You are fair.
You know everything.
Since 1492.
When America was discovered.
By an Italian.
Full of talent.
But cheater. He thought that it was India!
Tell me the first time you will attend a football game. Live.
Cheers.
Course, old Chris did have to use a Spanish ship. Guess the yard arm was "injured". As a side note, it is generally accepted by historians that he never landed on this country but on the nearby islands; likely Dominica. I wonder if he took an Italian chef on that ship? You Italians certainly would win the cooking world cup and you wouldn't even have to grab your spatula and roll on the ground to do it. As to seeing a match live, I played in one before I saw one. I didn't know how to dribble or grab my knee and not many others did either, but that was 1971 and I was in college.
Anyway, peace. We shouldn't argue amongst ourselves. The club has enough problems as it is. Welcome to the forum.
Fair enough, cheers mate!
Quote from: HatterDon on November 14, 2017, 12:21:34 AM
Over here, the consensus team that should miss the tournament rather than Italy is England.
I don't agree with the consensus.
Quote from: HatterDon on November 14, 2017, 12:21:34 AM
Over here, the consensus team that should miss the tournament rather than Italy is England.
I don't agree with the consensus.
Quote from: Count Flapula on November 14, 2017, 02:24:15 AM
Wow - a World Cup without both Italy and the Netherlands.. Never thought I'd see it.
Sweden effectively knocked both out as well!
Quote from: HatterDon on November 14, 2017, 12:21:34 AM
Over here, the consensus team that should miss the tournament rather than Italy is England.
I don't agree with the consensus.
Quote from: Count Flapula on November 14, 2017, 02:24:15 AM
Wow - a World Cup without both Italy and the Netherlands.. Never thought I'd see it.
Sweden effectively knocked both out as well!
Quote from: HatterDon on November 14, 2017, 12:21:34 AM
Over here, the consensus team that should miss the tournament rather than Italy is England.
I don't agree with the consensus.
Quote from: HatterDon on November 14, 2017, 12:21:34 AM
Over here, the consensus team that should miss the tournament rather than Italy is England.
I don't agree with the consensus.
Not sure where you are "over here" but certainly this is not the sentiment I have heard expressed on the East Coast. Most U.S. football fans I know bemoan the fact that some of the more weaker teams have scraped in.
From now on I'll support England that is my second Country.
Come on you whites! :-)
I'm going to go with Iceland and Costa Rico early and then switch to England during the knockout round. I assume my first choices will be gone by then.
I expect Panama to win it all. You heard it here first!
The Italian MNT manager is the worst ever. I put Italy getting knocked out of the WC qualifiers on him and him alone. They certainly had the talent pool to choose from.
Quote from: Forever Fulham on November 17, 2017, 12:12:12 AM
The Italian MNT manager is the worst ever. I put Italy getting knocked out of the WC qualifiers on him and him alone. They certainly had the talent pool to choose from.
He must be a better coach than the US had. It took TWO mangers to knock the US out.
