Fulham turnover and Roy's Future

[finnster01]

Although I am sure MAF's accountants will have a field day doing some very creative accounting for convenience and tax purposes, our turnover this year must be excellent:

1) Smalling transfer
2) Trimming/Loaning out lesser players
3) No real big purchases, other than resignings and loan deals
4) Deep FA Cup run (and if only we can make it to Wembley)
5) Last 16 Europa League and now Juventus...

MAF must be well pleased with the books. Do you think that means we will start to spend again? I for one, am not quite sure what to believe he will do. There are arguments either way.

To be honest, I really don't like this "rolling" contract Roy has, and with the WC coming up and obviously some real big European Nations will be out hunting for their new manager after the WC, this summer will make me a nervous wreck. I mean, what has Roy really left to prove at Fulham? He has never won anything with a country, he's only managed "small" nations, and he is not getting any younger...What if a real big and real good one came knocking? I just don't like it.

[fulhamguy]

The one thing I don't like is the high debt with have to MAF, I think we need to start trimming that down whilst we have a decent income and start becoming more self-sufficient.

[TonyGilroy]

I'm sure he'd take the England job and quite possibly a country like France or Germany if they came knocking but the big countries tend not to want foreigners as manager. Also success at Fulham isn't that big a deal at the highest levels of the game.

As for MAF, I'm sure he's delighted but I wouldn't assume that Hodgson would want to spend mega bucks on players. Above all he wants players who fit into his rigid team structure. Flair is great but only if, like Duff and Dempsey you also put in your shift. It makes me wonder what he'd manage with a team of seriously good players and I would guess very little because they'd be too full of ego to honour the team disciplines.

I'm sure he wants a bigger squad and we're becoming a more pretigious club to join but I can't see Roy wanting to graft 4 Brazilians intro this team.

Even with an open cheque book I'd guess that Roy would be very selective and cautious in his spending.

[TonyGilroy]

The one thing I don't like is the high debt with have to MAF, I think we need to start trimming that down whilst we have a decent income and start becoming more self-sufficient.

Not possible - the debt is so massive that frugal living wouldn't begin to dent it.

In intention it would seem to be less a debt but more a gift or investment by MAF. Who knows what the fallout from his death would be but that debt is probably about twice the value of the clubs assets including Craven Cottage and Motspur Park.

The potential for us to implode exists because we are inextricably linked to MAF's health and prosperity. Nothing to be done about it other than to enjoy the good times and hope that MAF is thinking long term beyond his life time.

[finnster01]

Good point, but I do not think it is quite as dire as you describe it Mr Tony.

You are ignoring the inherent value of the franchise which continues to grow substantially driven primarily by TV and Media rights for the Prem. As long as that bubble doesn't burst, which it doesn't look like given the new 3 year 1 Billion Pound deal.

The only bump in the road I see is 2012 and the new regulation about FIFA/UEFA enforcing spending constraints based on outstanding debts, but that can be avoided by doing a Chelsea/Abramovich and convert the debt to equity, but that would also include MAF willing to do just that.

So what we need to do is hope MAF lives for a long, long time especially past 2012...

[TonyGilroy]

The franchise value doesn't seem to have helped Portsmouth.

I don't think the position is dire because I trust MAF's good intentions but the risk is clearly there and I'm afraid the key time will be the aftermath of his death if he doesn't write off the debt before then.

[finnster01]

The franchise value doesn't seem to have helped Portsmouth.

I don't think the position is dire because I trust MAF's good intentions but the risk is clearly there and I'm afraid the key time will be the aftermath of his death if he doesn't write off the debt before then.

Agree that the big red flag is whatever happens to MAF's estate.

Pompey has always been a trainwreck though. This is their second time in administration. Mandaric stepped in to save them the first time around, but he made money on the club when he sold them on. 4 owners in two thirds of a season and bottom of the table and now a guaranteed relegation? Who's going to invest in that?

[TonyGilroy]

I think the point about Portsmouth (ignoring possible/probable corruption) is that the owners acted as if membership of the Premiere League with all the TV money gave them freedom to spend whatever they wanted and to ignore all accounting/bookkeeping/common sense rules.

It's vital that clubs like us learn lessons and don't spend money they don't have in the name of "ambition"

[Jimpav]

I think the point about Portsmouth (ignoring possible/probable corruption) is that the owners acted as if membership of the Premiere League with all the TV money gave them freedom to spend whatever they wanted and to ignore all accounting/bookkeeping/common sense rules.

Very true. Under Redknapp Pompey spent in similar way to Spurs. To many big name signings and unrealistic wages.

No problem with that if you have a 36,000 sell out most weeks and a 3 year waiting list for ST (Like Spurs) but not great when you are a very small club.

[MrCheviot]

To be honest, I really don't like this "rolling" contract Roy has, and with the WC coming up and obviously some real big European Nations will be out hunting for their new manager after the WC, this summer will make me a nervous wreck. I mean, what has Roy really left to prove at Fulham? He has never won anything with a country, he's only managed "small" nations, and he is not getting any younger...What if a real big and real good one came knocking? I just don't like it.

I think the contract is actually a decent situation.. the way I understand the rolling contracts to work, every day Roy is in essence signing a new 12 month deal. At any time he can say "I no longer wish to renew my contract" and then the countdown on the 12 months begins.

It gives Fulham the security to ensure a proper candidate search when that happens, and if it gives Roy the desired flexibility he needs so that he favors his situation with Fulham above another manager job elsewhere, that works to our benefit. Yes, the England job would be very tempting, but I wouldn't begrudge him the opportunity to manage his country.

[finnster01]

I don't think the contract works like that. If it does, then Roy isn't as smart as I think he is.

[Rambling_Syd_Rumpo]

I think Roy might be happy with the way things are-he is left to get on with being a manager,nobody will bother him,he has the total respect of the owner,total respect of the players ,total respect of the press(almost unheard of)and the total "we will follow you through the gates of Hell if you say so" respect of the fans.

If he went somewhere else the only thing he would get is more money to spend and I not sure he would use it as it could spoil "the system"

[MrCheviot]

I don't think the contract works like that. If it does, then Roy isn't as smart as I think he is.

Here's an explanation of rolling manager contracts http://www.thefootballnetwork.net/main/s115/st73284.htm (doesn't specifically mention Roy) but it puts them into a much more logical light for both parties..

In other words, Roy's 12 month rolling contract is not the same as a rolling contract you agree to w/ a mobile phone operator (i.e. automatically renews for another 12 months once the first is up).

If anyone else has a link/article/statement to clear this up it would be helpful of course.

[Fernhurst]

What an interesting thread...... the amount of money showing as debt to MAF is useful in keeping grubby real estate agents well away from our door - if MAF suddenly decides to wipe that out our FFC acreage would become a very different proposition.

Undoubtedly MAF has made plans for the future of Harrods etc, I am sure he has shown the same regard for our club.

Portsmouth are where they are because the owner, Russian or Arab had no emotional attachment to the club - Mo has been with us 13 years - how could he have not fallen in love with place and the warmth of the fans??

Is anyone aware of any other Fayed family connections to FFC ? It would be good to see a bit of succession planning going on.....

Finally ---- lets get that flag stiched together!!

[Fernhurst]

what's happening on the flag stakes??

[KCat]

The arrangement probably suits Roy as much as Fulham, it guarantees him a years salary should he get sacked.
 
Employment law is pretty standard in that  once you've been working  for 24 months continuously, you could anyway claim rights as if you were a non-rolling contract employee. This is why agency staff are so often removed from employment after 23 months continuous contract work - to avoid the employer falling into the employee rights issue.

I am sure Mo has made provision regarding all of his assets, in any event his son Omar will,  on completion of his studies,   take over in the next 5 years or so.

[Edwatch_Winston_Malone]

I think that Fulham to MAF is a rich man's toy and I think he enjoys playing with it.  We will be forever indebted to his love of Fulham and his investment BUT I can't see his much younger heirs enjoying spending thier inheritance on Fulham.

I hope he sells up (if he can) before he  gets too sick / old.  I expect his 'estate' will attempt to squeeze every last penny back from Fulham.

Enjoy the good times....

[TonyGilroy]

There will probably have been no end of complex estate planning with MAF's assets and the fallout from his death will depend largely on that. Hopefully he'll have many years left to refine that planning.

I think I'm right that Jack Walker at Blackburn, in his Will, forgave the debt and left the club and a significant sum to Trustees to give the club a secure future.

I think it's wrong to think of the club owing money to MAF - he is the club and worse case on his death is that his heirs will seek to find a buyer. That means that the most they will get is the most anyone will pay and if that's less than the debt it will have to be written off.

Do not underestimate also the extent that MAF's involvement with FFC and money provided has had beneficial tax implications for him.

[jarv]

Interesting thread. I have wondered about MAF for years. He is such a private person, it seems there are never any comments quoted from him in the papers. I, like the rest of you I am sure, would definitely like to understand more about Fulham's future. If he takes his ball home.....trouble.

RH is well over 60. If you had a well paid job, managing such a fantastic club, why would you want to move? If he moved to say, West Ham, Newcastle etc. all he would get is major headaches. The Fulham players respect? Absolutely. Many of the starting 11 were not getting a game at their previous clubs. They now form the backbone of a successful team. As a player, you have to be happy with that.

New players? A quality central midfield player to replace Murphy who probably only has one more season left in him.