NFR Guardian report on QPR

[Lighthouse]

The Football League has confirmed QPR could be consigned to the Conference in the event of relegation from the top flight if they refuse to pay a huge fine incurred under its financial fair play rules.

QPR are expected to face a fine of up to £40m when they reveal their financial results later this year, covering the season they spent in the Championship following relegation from the Premier League.

The club posted record pre-tax losses of £65.4m for the year ending May 2013, when they were relegated from the Premier League. The losses for the last financial year, expected to be made public in December, are also expected to be sizeable.

The QPR chairman Tony Fernandes has vowed to fight any fine imposed by the Football League, which would have to go to charity rather than the other clubs under an agreement with the Premier League over its solidarity payments.

The Football League chief executive, Shaun Harvey, said he was "satisfied" that it would be able to charge QPR for a breach of the rules while they were still part of the competition and that the ultimate sanction would be to refuse re-admission.

"Theoretically, that is the position but I would hope there would be resolution long before that option even had to be considered. The one thing for certain is that most clubs [in the Premier League] will become a Football League club again," said Harvey, speaking at the Soccerex conference in Manchester.

"Now QPR will of course be hoping it does not happen for some considerable number of seasons but the chances they will need to return to the Football League fold at some point. Certainly, three of the 20 clubs that are in the Premier League will be in the Football League next season."

Clubs that remain within the Football League that breach the rules, introduced in 2012, face a transfer embargo but those that win promotion are fined instead.

"Will we fight the fine? What do you think? After all we've been through, it's my middle name – 'Fight It' Fernandes," said the QPR chairman after the club won promotion.

"My view has been consistent, that it is very unfair for a club that has been relegated as the wage difference between the Premier League and Championship is impossible. There should be a time period for clubs to rectify their salaries.

"If we were in the Championship in two years with that wage bill it wouldn't be right. I'm in favour of FFP but it is unfair for a club coming down."

The Premier League chief executive, Richard Scudamore, is also on record as saying the rules needed to be amended. Harvey said there was little chance of them being altered before the FFP declarations had to be made on 1 December.

Harvey said: "Unless the 24 clubs vote to change the rules, the rules as they are now will stay in place. I don't suspect there is any form of rule change that would be considered or brought forward that would see the current circumstances we potentially face changing."

He added that discussions with the Premier League were continuing over trying to standardise their financial fair play rules.

"There's a long-standing discussion that's taken place between the Football League and the Premier League as to how to try to ensure that we have regulations that actually work for clubs regardless of which division they're in," he said.

"We do talk to them periodically about any number of issues and this features – being topical – relatively high on that agenda."

[F(f)CUK]

I wondered what the F stood for in his middle name...I have lost my bet!!!

[Baszab]

Brilliant thinking then by Khan to get rid off most of the staff and any player earning a serious wage and replace them with juniors and European journeymen.

[ToodlesMcToot]

Hate to ride the fence on this one but, there are really two sides to this situation. On the one hand, the rules are the rules. It appears that QPR did break the FFP rules in place in gaining their promotion. On the other hand, Mr. "Fight It" has a great point. If his rendition of how FFP impacts demoted teams is accurate, it's far too great an expectation to relegate a PL team, with its PL wage structure and contracts,  have them deconstruct their team and rebuild it , take the hit on their annual attendance, and still be competitive (be able to fight for promotion) in the Championship. It seems unfair to the relegated club and puts them at a disadvantage from what I can tell. If things are as he states, then surely some change needs to come to ease relegated teams back into the FL and allow them to be competitive.

I'm not advocating that relegated clubs should be protected and allowed to keep things exactly as they were in the PL, but, for a club like Fulham - going down - it's been easy to see how difficult ridding ourselves of PL contracts (to meet FFP standards as well as the players' desires presumably), while getting a fair return for the club, can be with Ruiz, Mitro, Rodallega, et al.  

Maybe that makes some sense.

[Two Ton Ted]

What would make sense would be the PL to agree to the same FFP rules as the FL, but turkeys don't vote for xmas.

[Rhys Lightning 63]

Go on Football League, you know you want to

[ToodlesMcToot]

What would make sense would be the PL to agree to the same FFP rules as the FL, but turkeys don't vote for xmas.

Which are the major ways that the two sets of rules differ?

[MJG]

Hate to ride the fence on this one but, there are really two sides to this situation. On the one hand, the rules are the rules. It appears that QPR did break the FFP rules in place in gaining their promotion. On the other hand, Mr. "Fight It" has a great point. If his rendition of how FFP impacts demoted teams is accurate, it's far too great an expectation to relegate a PL team, with its PL wage structure and contracts,  have them deconstruct their team and rebuild it , take the hit on their annual attendance, and still be competitive (be able to fight for promotion) in the Championship. It seems unfair to the relegated club and puts them at a disadvantage from what I can tell. If things are as he states, then surely some change needs to come to ease relegated teams back into the FL and allow them to be competitive.

I'm not advocating that relegated clubs should be protected and allowed to keep things exactly as they were in the PL, but, for a club like Fulham - going down - it's been easy to see how difficult ridding ourselves of PL contracts (to meet FFP standards as well as the players' desires presumably), while getting a fair return for the club, can be with Ruiz, Mitro, Rodallega, et al. 

Maybe that makes some sense.

I tend to agree with this as well. At best it should be a staged reduction in wages against turnover (or income, not sure what the criteria is) over a couple of years. Otherwise you pretty much have to do what we did, clear everyone out and start again on normal championship wages.

[Logicalman]

Hate to ride the fence on this one but, there are really two sides to this situation. On the one hand, the rules are the rules. It appears that QPR did break the FFP rules in place in gaining their promotion. On the other hand, Mr. "Fight It" has a great point. If his rendition of how FFP impacts demoted teams is accurate, it's far too great an expectation to relegate a PL team, with its PL wage structure and contracts,  have them deconstruct their team and rebuild it , take the hit on their annual attendance, and still be competitive (be able to fight for promotion) in the Championship. It seems unfair to the relegated club and puts them at a disadvantage from what I can tell. If things are as he states, then surely some change needs to come to ease relegated teams back into the FL and allow them to be competitive.

I'm not advocating that relegated clubs should be protected and allowed to keep things exactly as they were in the PL, but, for a club like Fulham - going down - it's been easy to see how difficult ridding ourselves of PL contracts (to meet FFP standards as well as the players' desires presumably), while getting a fair return for the club, can be with Ruiz, Mitro, Rodallega, et al.  

Maybe that makes some sense.

I don't disagree with what you say, and a rule change needs to be made, but until that rule change takes effect, then they must maintain a level playing field and ALL clubs mist be treated the same, and that means QPR (and  TF) need to remember they signed up to comply with those rules when they both got promoted and relegated. They could have chosen to not enter the Fizzy league and become a non-league team, but they did not, the choice was theirs and nobody else's.

[GloucesterWhite]

Surely the parachute payments are meant to help fund the change in circumstances of relegated teams?

[Pluto]

FFP is a joke in basically every respect. It was put in place to keep the rich clubs rich and the poor clubs poor, don't let their rhetoric convince you otherwise.

[grandad]

I support the idea of the FFP. However in practice it does not really affect the "big" boys. They just seem to spend more & more every year. It remains very difficult to buy your way out of the Championship which is why, I suppose, we have not spent very much. QPR , however, have taken a huge gamble. If they get relegated they will be in big trouble. Bring it on.

[Forever Fulham]

FFP is a joke in basically every respect. It was put in place to keep the rich clubs rich and the poor clubs poor, don't let their rhetoric convince you otherwise.

Agree.  They can pay a fine and continue to spend more than they take in.  That makes a joke of the premise of living within your means. 

[Canary White]

Surely the parachute payments are meant to help fund the change in circumstances of relegated teams?

That's what I was thinking, and why Fernandes' argument doesn't make sense to me. You don't get fined for having a big wage bill; you get fined for making a big net loss. So when you go down, you cut your wage bill as much as possible and if you get lumbered with a couple of high-earners like we have with Rodallega and Ruiz, then the parachute payments are there to help you offset that and, exactly as Fernandes says, give teams coming down a few years to adjust. The parachute payments might not have been enough for QPR but that's because, as everyone in football except Fernandes can see, QPR have been spending absolutely ridiculous amounts of money for the last couple of years.

[DJinNJ]

FFP is a joke in basically every respect. It was put in place to keep the rich clubs rich and the poor clubs poor, don't let their rhetoric convince you otherwise.

Agree.  They can pay a fine and continue to spend more than they take in.  That makes a joke of the premise of living within your means. 

The primary penalties aren't fines, they are transfer bans and points deductions, and UEFA can ban clubs from European competition. The fine QPR is threatened with is only for teams that are promoted to the Premier League, as it's designed to deter owners from trying to buy promotion by negating some the profit they would get from PL revenue. This is for protection of those clubs as well, since the owner can bail if the gamble doesn't pay off.

I think you could argue that the biggest clubs would stay at the top because they can spend much more money without breaking the rules, although the PL does also place a limit on the wage bill. And I'm not trying to cheerlead for the PL's or FL's plan for FFP, as we still have to see how they work in practice, but I don't think it's intentionally designed to benefit the rich clubs.

[ToodlesMcToot]

Hate to ride the fence on this one but, there are really two sides to this situation. On the one hand, the rules are the rules. It appears that QPR did break the FFP rules in place in gaining their promotion. On the other hand, Mr. "Fight It" has a great point. If his rendition of how FFP impacts demoted teams is accurate, it's far too great an expectation to relegate a PL team, with its PL wage structure and contracts,  have them deconstruct their team and rebuild it , take the hit on their annual attendance, and still be competitive (be able to fight for promotion) in the Championship. It seems unfair to the relegated club and puts them at a disadvantage from what I can tell. If things are as he states, then surely some change needs to come to ease relegated teams back into the FL and allow them to be competitive.

I'm not advocating that relegated clubs should be protected and allowed to keep things exactly as they were in the PL, but, for a club like Fulham - going down - it's been easy to see how difficult ridding ourselves of PL contracts (to meet FFP standards as well as the players' desires presumably), while getting a fair return for the club, can be with Ruiz, Mitro, Rodallega, et al.  

Maybe that makes some sense.

I don't disagree with what you say, and a rule change needs to be made, but until that rule change takes effect, then they must maintain a level playing field and ALL clubs mist be treated the same, and that means QPR (and  TF) need to remember they signed up to comply with those rules when they both got promoted and relegated. They could have chosen to not enter the Fizzy league and become a non-league team, but they did not, the choice was theirs and nobody else's.

I agree that QPR are responsible for working within the rules and if they do happen to be relegated they deserve the penalties that are levied.

I just think Fernandes has a point. He's a bit late expressing it however. Should have said something when his club was asked to sign on to FFP.

[Logicalman]

Hate to ride the fence on this one but, there are really two sides to this situation. On the one hand, the rules are the rules. It appears that QPR did break the FFP rules in place in gaining their promotion. On the other hand, Mr. "Fight It" has a great point. If his rendition of how FFP impacts demoted teams is accurate, it's far too great an expectation to relegate a PL team, with its PL wage structure and contracts,  have them deconstruct their team and rebuild it , take the hit on their annual attendance, and still be competitive (be able to fight for promotion) in the Championship. It seems unfair to the relegated club and puts them at a disadvantage from what I can tell. If things are as he states, then surely some change needs to come to ease relegated teams back into the FL and allow them to be competitive.

I'm not advocating that relegated clubs should be protected and allowed to keep things exactly as they were in the PL, but, for a club like Fulham - going down - it's been easy to see how difficult ridding ourselves of PL contracts (to meet FFP standards as well as the players' desires presumably), while getting a fair return for the club, can be with Ruiz, Mitro, Rodallega, et al.  

Maybe that makes some sense.

I don't disagree with what you say, and a rule change needs to be made, but until that rule change takes effect, then they must maintain a level playing field and ALL clubs mist be treated the same, and that means QPR (and  TF) need to remember they signed up to comply with those rules when they both got promoted and relegated. They could have chosen to not enter the Fizzy league and become a non-league team, but they did not, the choice was theirs and nobody else's.

I agree that QPR are responsible for working within the rules and if they do happen to be relegated they deserve the penalties that are levied.

I just think Fernandes has a point. He's a bit late expressing it however. Should have said something when his club was asked to sign on to FFP.

Thats what I mean. hHe CHOSE to accept those rules, was happy to go along whilst they served him to do so, and then bleats because he's been caught out fiddling them, and doing what the other teams steer clear of. I would actually call that cheating, and I hope they go under and/or get rid of TF - he and Harry deserve each other.

[Canary White]

It might also be worth noting that several managers in this division have recently argued that the parachute payments give the clubs coming down an unfair advantage (not disadvantage) vis-a-vis the teams already in the division, i.e., TF's opinion is diametrically opposed to his peers'.

[Pie and mash]

 :005: QPR's wage bill is higher than AC Milan

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/serie-a/11085952/Queens-Park-Rangers-wage-bill-bigger-than-AC-Milan-as-survey-shows-financial-gap-between-Serie-A-and-Premier-League.html

[RaySmith]

One good reason for watching Prem games this season -to hope QPR lose!