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Appointing a Manager For The Long Haul

Started by TonyGilroy, October 24, 2014, 08:36:36 AM

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TonyGilroy



Those who think that important should look at this link.


http://www.leaguemanagers.com/managers/longest-current.html

Arsene Wenger is the obvious exception but in the entire Football and Premiere League there are only 14 managers who have served 3 years or more at their current clubs as manager of whom only four have clocked up four or more years.

Long term planning is obviosly desireable in theory but in practice it simply doesn't happen these days.

We need the right man for now not for some long term project because that's not the way football works.

westcliff white

Personally i think we should be looking 3-5 years ahead not just short haul, short haul always leads to revolving doors and uncertainty. if it doesn't work out you make a change but you look ahead. Put clause sin the contract base don performances to limit the pay out exposure and then you protect yourselves.
Every day is a Fulham day

TonyGilroy

But that's ignoring the evidence of how football actually works.

All managers are appointed for the long haul but most are gone within a year or two.

Excluding Kit we've had 23 managers in the last 50 years.


RaySmith

As sure as night follows day, there will come a time when we don't do so well  under Kit, and he is criticised on here.

But hopefully, that won't happen for a long time  yet, and we can have a run of success with this true, and extremely likeable, Fulham man, who is so far showing great managerial ability, and has a unique empathy with our young team.

VicHalomsLovechild

When you face financial meltdown, through relegation or no Champions League then 18 months 2 years would I guess be considered the long haul in football.
It's the economics behind the scenes that need a skilfully operator. Someone who will let you know in advance how much you have to spend long before the Windows open. We are one of those clubs not big enough to hold onto successful players or managers but just big enough to attract players and managers who have lost their way or are at the beginning of their careers. We're more Iceland than Tesco. Primark than M&S.

Holders

Roy could have been here for the long haul but thought he'd achieved all he could and wanted another challenge. Managers don't have to be sacked, they are normally ambitious people with their own objectives and can move on fro their own reasons as well. Wenger is an exception but perhaps he has got his own satisfaction from running the club relatively successfully for a long time on a relatively modest budget.

IF Kit is the man who is appointed, I can see him having enough to challenge him at Fulham for several years to come, all other things being equal. That is, that he get us promoted within a timescale satisfactory to Khan and performs adequately to re-establish us. Do that, and he will have made a name for himself.
Non sumus statione ferriviaria


TonyGilroy


There are all sorts of reasons for managers leaving but the fact is that with very few exceptions they don't often last more than 2 or 3 years.

With that as a simple truth the priority is to get the right man for now. Great if we buck the trend and he's still succeeding with us years in the future but look around and you can see that the Fergusons, Wengers and Gradis are major exceptions.

What's the longest stay for us since Bedford Jezzard? Probably Chris Coleman at 3 years I think.

westcliff white

for me i have had enough of short term we as FFC, for me at least and I don't care if people disagree its my opinion, need to look ahead for 3-5 years, we have good youngsters they need stability so they know the manager has faith in them. Chopping and changing may mean they do not progress. We have to look longer term for me.
Every day is a Fulham day

Peabody

Quote from: TonyGilroy on October 24, 2014, 09:20:39 AM

There are all sorts of reasons for managers leaving but the fact is that with very few exceptions they don't often last more than 2 or 3 years.

With that as a simple truth the priority is to get the right man for now. Great if we buck the trend and he's still succeeding with us years in the future but look around and you can see that the Fergusons, Wengers and Gradis are major exceptions.

What's the longest stay for us since Bedford Jezzard? Probably Chris Coleman at 3 years I think.

Alec Stock 1972-1976. Bobby Campbell 1976-1980. Malcolm McDonald 1980-1984. Not disagreeing Tony but that period, we had relative stability.


MJG

One reason why their should be two appoitments:

The manager...Kit Symons

A DOF with a longer contract and a proper job remit of supporting and building on all football related work at the club.

The ODF would be more of a strategic appointment separate from the manager and no matter who the first team manger/coach is that position would still be required.

F(f)CUK

I am sure that every football supporter would like to have a manager that they trust is doing right for the club, understands it and is happy to stay and build and rebuild teams over and over again in a successful way.

Unfortunately this is a rare event.

Of our managers, which of these left too early: Hodgson definitely, Adams possibly, Keegan possibly

A case could be made for Tigana (but when the relationship breaks with the chairman there is only one winner)

I cannot really make a case for anyone else.

Lighthouse

We need stability and we are forced  into a rebuilding job due to mismanagement over many years. A manager has to have the results as well as some idea where the club if going. We do well and the manager is poached by a bigger club. We do badly and he is sacked.

Felix was clearly given a chance to be the big boss and managed to help us even further down the ladder. We now need a few seasons of the right man doing the right thing. I had no great feeling for Kit before he took over. But he has already done a wonderful job. He himself said how badly things must have been if we are still in the relegation area after the good results.

Long haul is no longer anything more than two seasons nowadays. As for managers like Wenger. A club like Arsenal may have progressed under different managers. They are very much an under performing club.
The above IS NOT A LEGAL DOCUMENT. It is an opinion.

We may yet hear the horse talk.

I can stand my own despair but not others hope


TonyGilroy

Quote from: Peabody on October 24, 2014, 09:30:50 AM
Quote from: TonyGilroy on October 24, 2014, 09:20:39 AM

There are all sorts of reasons for managers leaving but the fact is that with very few exceptions they don't often last more than 2 or 3 years.

With that as a simple truth the priority is to get the right man for now. Great if we buck the trend and he's still succeeding with us years in the future but look around and you can see that the Fergusons, Wengers and Gradis are major exceptions.

What's the longest stay for us since Bedford Jezzard? Probably Chris Coleman at 3 years I think.

Alec Stock 1972-1976. Bobby Campbell 1976-1980. Malcolm McDonald 1980-1984. Not disagreeing Tony but that period, we had relative stability.

I hadn't realised they'd each lasted 4 years.

Looking back though it was hardly stability. Stock was gradually sidelined most unwillingly, Campbell became ever more unpopular and Macdonald's private life unravelled whilst our Dear Leader was putting in place the plans that were designed to lead to the end of our miserable existence.

Happy days.

Holders

I think the DoF position is taken as read, particularly as Kit has hinted at it himself.

The Stock, Campbell and MacDonald eras were periods of relative stability and sustained progress/relative success, notwithstanding Clay's devious plans.

On the subject of those managers who left too early, I would suggest (as well as Roy) Tigana and Hughes. Not Keegan or, sadly, Adams. When Coleman was bought soon after he left he said "I wouldn't know how to pay £2m for a player - a couple of teams maybe". Sad but true. A great lower-division manager but not for MAF's Fulham-on-the-up.
Non sumus statione ferriviaria

TonyGilroy


The Tigana/Fayed relationship was becoming so toxic that actually Tigana should have left earlier. Didn't Coleman get 10 points from 5 games and we survived by a point or two.

I remember Tigana's last game - 0-4 to Blackburn I think at Loftus Road and it was truly the pits. How much of the blame should lie with Tigana rather than Fayed is a matter of opinion but he actually was kept on longer than was sensible.


Holders

I wasn't having regard for his relationship with Fayed, the truth of which I think we can only speculate at.

I think Hughes had more to offer.
Non sumus statione ferriviaria

Baszab

TG you are so right - KS has galvanised the club NOW - that is what counts - there is no long term planning necessary - we needed someone to get us out of the terrible predicament FM left us in ---- and he has done it (so far)

The only long term planing we have had in the last 5 years has been the Youth academy/U21, I wonder who was in charge of that?

Surprise surprise, it was KS

GloucesterWhite

Liverpool had success for many years by promoting from within the club's ranks. I would like us to try the same, give the job now to Kit and then start grooming the next guy from the academy staff/under 21s. That way the manager knows the kids coming through.


Holders

It all makes sense now but, to take TG's point to its logical conclusion, how sad it will be when Khan/the fans/the players get fed up with KS and he is levered out, notwithstanding his track record with the youngsters. Hence my postulated win-win scenario where KS is successful in taking us to the PL and re-establishing us there.

Should he succeed in that, he will have succeeded by any definition of either Khan's or his; should he fail then he would know why there had to be a parting of the ways. he's made it abundantly clear that he wants the job and he's well aware of what that might mean if the success weren't maintained in the long haul.

Win-win in the short haul as well, methinks.
Non sumus statione ferriviaria

TonyGilroy

#19
I don't think I'm making a point really just providing the facts of managerial longevity.

Short termism is the way it is whether by accident or design.

To expand on that slightly. I don't think any manager is ever appointed on the basis that "he'll do for a while and we'll get rid after a year or two". That's how it nearly always works out though.

If the guy really excells he gets offered and takes a better job from which he gets sacked a year or two later.

You really can count the present day exceptions on the fingers of one hand.