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Tactical ineptitude

Started by Max Headroom, April 25, 2015, 06:20:39 PM

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Domino 1879

Quote from: cmg on April 27, 2015, 01:10:13 PM
Quote from: Fulham1959 on April 27, 2015, 11:53:18 AM

By the way, what was Roy's record in the season he joined us, compared with Kit's ?

A rather well timed question as Kit has been in charge for 38 matches - exactly the same as Roy's first season.

Roy: p38  w12  d10  l16  ppm 1.21 [PL]
Kit:  p38  w14  d 9   l15  ppm 1.34 [Ch]

Not a fair comparison at all.  Premier League v Championship. 
In any case its the manner of our performances that have been so depressing.
We have been conceding goals alarmingly for two seasons and that has not improved under Kit.
Roy tightened up our defence.

cmg

Quote from: mikestrand on April 27, 2015, 01:47:11 PM
Quote from: cmg on April 27, 2015, 01:10:13 PM
Quote from: Fulham1959 on April 27, 2015, 11:53:18 AM

By the way, what was Roy's record in the season he joined us, compared with Kit's ?

A rather well timed question as Kit has been in charge for 38 matches - exactly the same as Roy's first season.

Roy: p38  w12  d10  l16  ppm 1.21 [PL]
Kit:  p38  w14  d 9   l15  ppm 1.34 [Ch]
well done fellas a win double on the twisted logic  front, honestly comparing mid table in the premier to mid table in the championship

Odd response.

There is no logic involved, twisted or otherwise.

A question was asked - the answer was provided. The figures are correct. It was explicitly stated (for those who might not have known) that one set applied to the PL the other to the Ch.

No comment was made.

Fulham1959

Quote from: cmg on April 27, 2015, 02:02:31 PM
Quote from: mikestrand on April 27, 2015, 01:47:11 PM
Quote from: cmg on April 27, 2015, 01:10:13 PM
Quote from: Fulham1959 on April 27, 2015, 11:53:18 AM

By the way, what was Roy's record in the season he joined us, compared with Kit's ?

A rather well timed question as Kit has been in charge for 38 matches - exactly the same as Roy's first season.

Roy: p38  w12  d10  l16  ppm 1.21 [PL]
Kit:  p38  w14  d 9   l15  ppm 1.34 [Ch]
well done fellas a win double on the twisted logic  front, honestly comparing mid table in the premier to mid table in the championship

Odd response.

There is no logic involved, twisted or otherwise.

A question was asked - the answer was provided. The figures are correct. It was explicitly stated (for those who might not have known) that one set applied to the PL the other to the Ch.

No comment was made.

Well said, cmg, and thanks.

I guess we all have our own agenda.  I could say that Roy inherited a Premier squad and Kit a Championship one.  I was merely curious, however.

Was everyone happy with Roy at that time (I can't remember) or merely exultant that our neck had been saved by Murphy's ?


Fulham1959

Quote from: cmg on April 27, 2015, 01:10:13 PM
Quote from: Fulham1959 on April 27, 2015, 11:53:18 AM

By the way, what was Roy's record in the season he joined us, compared with Kit's ?

A rather well timed question as Kit has been in charge for 38 matches - exactly the same as Roy's first season.

Roy: p38  w12  d10  l16  ppm 1.21 [PL]
Kit:  p38  w14  d 9   l15  ppm 1.34 [Ch]

Hang on  -  Roy didn't join until 30 December 2007, i.e. it was a part-season !

mikestrand

Quote from: cmg on April 27, 2015, 02:02:31 PM
Quote from: mikestrand on April 27, 2015, 01:47:11 PM
Quote from: cmg on April 27, 2015, 01:10:13 PM
Quote from: Fulham1959 on April 27, 2015, 11:53:18 AM

By the way, what was Roy's record in the season he joined us, compared with Kit's ?

A rather well timed question as Kit has been in charge for 38 matches - exactly the same as Roy's first season.

Roy: p38  w12  d10  l16  ppm 1.21 [PL]
Kit:  p38  w14  d 9   l15  ppm 1.34 [Ch]
well done fellas a win double on the twisted logic  front, honestly comparing mid table in the premier to mid table in the championship

Odd response.

There is no logic involved, twisted or otherwise.

A question was asked - the answer was provided. The figures are correct. It was explicitly stated (for those who might not have known) that one set applied to the PL the other to the Ch.

No comment was made.
Why would it be a well timed question when no real conclusion can be drawn from the comparison.
In the Premier that set of results would be an achievement for a club of our size, likewise the set of results in the championship would only be average for the same reason.

cmg

Quote from: mikestrand on April 27, 2015, 03:33:10 PM

Why would it be a well timed question when no real conclusion can be drawn from the comparison.
In the Premier that set of results would be an achievement for a club of our size, likewise the set of results in the championship would only be average for the same reason.



Right. Getting a bit boring now, but I'll answer your question.
I thought the question 'well timed' because, when I came to look at the figures I saw that Roy's 'first' season consisted of 38 games which, by a minor and insignificant, coincidence happened to be the number of games for which Kit has now been in charge, ie. 38.

HOWEVER

as Fulham1959 has pointed out, due to a 'Tactical Ineptitude' on my part I was reading Roy's figures upside down and, in fact, the numbers I gave were for his LAST 38 matches.

The figures for his FIRST 38 matches, again presented without, please note, any comment other than to say that they were achieved in the PL (because that's where we were when Roy was given the job)

Roy:  p38  w12  d12  l14  ppm 1.26


EJL

I'm getting '3-0 against Swansea' vibes from some of the reactions to this result. Great day at the Cottage, fantastic result against a side who we had no right to win against on paper, but the same issues were still there.

mikestrand

Quote from: cmg on April 27, 2015, 05:27:51 PM
Quote from: mikestrand on April 27, 2015, 03:33:10 PM

Why would it be a well timed question when no real conclusion can be drawn from the comparison.
In the Premier that set of results would be an achievement for a club of our size, likewise the set of results in the championship would only be average for the same reason.



Right. Getting a bit boring now, but I'll answer your question.
I thought the question 'well timed' because, when I came to look at the figures I saw that Roy's 'first' season consisted of 38 games which, by a minor and insignificant, coincidence happened to be the number of games for which Kit has now been in charge, ie. 38.

HOWEVER

as Fulham1959 has pointed out, due to a 'Tactical Ineptitude' on my part I was reading Roy's figures upside down and, in fact, the numbers I gave were for his LAST 38 matches.

The figures for his FIRST 38 matches, again presented without, please note, any comment other than to say that they were achieved in the PL (because that's where we were when Roy was given the job)

Roy:  p38  w12  d12  l14  ppm 1.26
Thanks for the clarification, It just seemed a bit unfair on Kit to compare him with Roy.

Logicalman

Quote from: mikestrand on April 27, 2015, 10:09:33 AM
If we had won our first 6/7 games of the season we still would not have made the play offs. Sobering thought

Even more sobering would have been the actual positions had we won those games .... Considering the gutting team changes made closed season, this would not have been a placing out of sorts with us either. In fact, I believe many on here would not have been too put out, considering.

Ain't stats a real pig? Just when you think that Kit has done a terrible job, those bloody stats come and bite you where it really hurts!!  :005:



PositionTeamOld PosPlydWonDrewLostForAgainstGoal DiffPoints
1Watford 1452771190494188
2Bournemouth 2442412892454784
3Middlesbrough 3452591168373184
4Norwich 44524111084463883
5Ipswich 54521121268511775
6Brentford 7452291475591675
7Derby 64520141180532774
8Wolves 84520121365551072
9Fulham 1745209166366-369
10Blackburn 9451616136357664
11Charlton 10451418135457-360
12Birmingham 11451515155364-1160
13Nottm Forest 12451514167067359
14Sheff Wed 14451417144248-659
15Cardiff 13451513175460-658
16Leeds 15451510205061-1155
17Huddersfield 16451315175875-1754
18Bolton 18441312195463-951
19Brighton 20451016194454-1046
20Rotherham 21441015194466-2245
21Reading 19441111224168-2744
22Wigan 2345912243961-2239
23Millwall 2245814233973-3438
24Blackpool 2445413283691-5525
Logical is just in the name - don't expect it has anything to do with my thought process, because I AM the man who sold the world.


Chris M

How many times have we gone, down to 10 men, under Kit and fight too come back. No he just takes of the only players that can pass, and we go on to throw away even more goals. The quality in managers last Saturday says everything.

Please tell me the logic of playing Woodrow in midfield, when we had a midfielder on the bench? Despite taking off a player that could have allowed us to pick off the spaces in an opposition that has "gone for it".

Yes Betts mucked up, but the game completely swayed on that sub, as well as the three for Borough. I had no problems up to that point, but again like Forest he almost threw away a game that was sowed up, against TEN men.

Again, our luckiest, worst manager.

alfie

To be honest I am really sick of all this now every day, every week, every  month the same bloody posts on the same subject. We all knew what was wrong a long while ago so why do we have to keep repeating the problems all the time.

Story of my life
"I was looking back to see if she was looking back to see if i was looking back at her"
Sadly she wasn't

Mince n Tatties

Quote from: mikestrand on April 27, 2015, 10:09:33 AM
If we had won our first 6/7 games of the season we still would not have made the play offs. Sobering thought

That tiny word IF how many times has it been used on here.
If only he hadnt got sent off, if only he hadnt punched that ball out, if
he hadnt missed that sitter, if if if if if...
Its all hypothetical, we did have only 1 point from Felix's games.
If Felix had won his next game he might have gone on and won his next 10
we will never know..
Yes that If word, If me grannie had whatsits she'd be my grandad..... :023:


davew

If we had won 6 more games last season we wouldn't have been in the Championship, stupid posting! If my aunt had b-ll-ks etc!!
Grandson of a Former Director of FFC (served 1954 - 1968)

bobbo

Quote from: Max Headroom on April 25, 2015, 06:20:39 PM
I have to say that I am completely staggered by the lack of tactical ability from Kit

1. The starting line up included five players (Turner, Richards, Guthrie, Ruiz, and Rodellega) who won't be there next season.
2. 3-1 up with them down to ten men and we didn't press the destroy button. Perfect opportunity to have Roberts run at them.
3. What did Smith do to deserve to be dropped for Rodellega, who did nothing to impress.
4. I don't get Kavanagh and Tunnicliffe in midfield. Our woeful defending comes from a woeful midfield.
5. Ruiz was the class act on the pitch. Why has he not been starting and why was he taken off today when the game was opening up. A type of game that suits him.
6. Bettinelli had a mare, particularly for their third. But I will forgive him as he has saved us too often this season.
7. No subs apart from Guthrie who was about to be sent off until very late in the game.
8. No animation or coaching at all fro Symins during the game.
9. The midfield has been our problem this season, not stopping their midfield running forward making our defence look bad, and also no movement meaning all the dance can do is lump the ball forward.
10. How come when we are 3-1 up we still play with no confidence.
11. Why Hoogland ahead of Grimmer?
12. Their left back was sent off. We are winning 3-1. We have a fantastically talented right winger on the bench. 1+1 = lets play it safe.
13. At least today we only picked 8 defensive players rather than 9.....

Today was much better, but we are safe and we should have given some youngsters ago. What about Plumain? Roberts? Even Evans at left back. No adventure. Very conservative. Shame on you.

I say this cos I love Fulham. Today's game was incredibly exciting, and I thoroughly enjoyed it, but next season I want us to go up!
, who cares if it is a wind up and I don't think it is ! And I agree with all said on it.
1975 just leaving home full of hope

mikestrand

Quote from: Logicalman on April 27, 2015, 06:13:32 PM
Quote from: mikestrand on April 27, 2015, 10:09:33 AM
If we had won our first 6/7 games of the season we still would not have made the play offs. Sobering thought

Even more sobering would have been the actual positions had we won those games .... Considering the gutting team changes made closed season, this would not have been a placing out of sorts with us either. In fact, I believe many on here would not have been too put out, considering.

Ain't stats a real pig? Just when you think that Kit has done a terrible job, those bloody stats come and bite you where it really hurts!!  :005:



PositionTeamOld PosPlydWonDrewLostForAgainstGoal DiffPoints
1Watford 1452771190494188
2Bournemouth 2442412892454784
3Middlesbrough 3452591168373184
4Norwich 44524111084463883
5Ipswich 54521121268511775
6Brentford 7452291475591675
7Derby 64520141180532774
8Wolves 84520121365551072
9Fulham 1745209166366-369
10Blackburn 9451616136357664
11Charlton 10451418135457-360
12Birmingham 11451515155364-1160
13Nottm Forest 12451514167067359
14Sheff Wed 14451417144248-659
15Cardiff 13451513175460-658
16Leeds 15451510205061-1155
17Huddersfield 16451315175875-1754
18Bolton 18441312195463-951
19Brighton 20451016194454-1046
20Rotherham 21441015194466-2245
21Reading 19441111224168-2744
22Wigan 2345912243961-2239
23Millwall 2245814233973-3438
24Blackpool 2445413283691-5525
I was merely saying in a twisted illogical way imagine if the magath nightmare hadnt happened and we had a wonderful start we still would not have made the play offs, true its all subjective because we're never know what squad kit would have created better? or worse? after the january window personally I don't think it would have been much better.
Stats of course can be subjective too as this table shows how poor we have been in much of the second part of the season


Logicalman

Mike, totally agree mate. A good start of the season tends to lead to an upswing in subsequent results and so it's really all hypothetical really  :021:
Logical is just in the name - don't expect it has anything to do with my thought process, because I AM the man who sold the world.