If we have players with pace will they get a game.

[The Swan]

We are all calling out for players with pace but will they ever get a game.
We have the same manager as last season who did not play any of our players who might have had a bit of pace.
Kit sat between Riggs and Mac and did not say much about his style of play for next season.
He did not admit that he got his selections wrong many times or he did not have a plan B for any of the games we played.
We have renewed our season ticket for next season, but maybe we were wrong to do so.
I was hoping for a new manager for next season. Who should it be, the Ex Brentford boss, Big Sam, or maybe the boss of MK Dons. ( I hate the fact that they got promoted to the Championship, they should not even be in the Football League)
.

[HatterDon]

LVC had no pace?

hmmmmmm

[YankeeJim]

Fofanna could motor a bit.

[FPT]

I don't believe the accusations of ineptitude towards Kit Symons when it comes into a context he couldn't prevent. The squad was pre-built for him with the diamond in mind - a system which doesn't facilitate direct pace, but speed in a more engine like way in Lasse Vigen Christensen (who played 27 times under Kit Symons) and Seko Fofana (who played 25 matches at Craven Cottage).

Now, the frustration does appear to fall under the line of lack of pace in the wide areas, but I question you to find a team in this division that played a 17 year old on a weekly basis? Patrick Roberts still managed 14 appearances (although the majority are less than 15 minutes), George Williams played 15 games and was a key figure at one point but was taken out after a run of one win in 6 with him starting in the side. Alex Kacaniklic was vastly disappointing once returning to Craven Cottage, playing 15 times under Kit Symons but doing very little of note. You can point to Kit, but a player like Kacaniklic should be stepping up to the plate - I'd be open to bids to take him as we look at moving in a different direction.

We also lacked pace in the striking positions, with only one real vertical threat in Moussa Dembele (12 matches under Kit) as Adam Taggart has been out all season.

The sentiment of pace in the squad is certainly a valid one, but I think you need to redirect and discuss the variables. If we sign a Matt Jarvis (for example), of course we're going to use him, he's a got proven quality with the pace we need to give our squad another dimensions. Matt Jarvis *is* a senior player with the ability to take the responsibility on his shoulders with mature consistency. The key for me is to make us more tactically flexible, if we build a team for a 4231, it's then more simple to give (a year older) Patrick Roberts a run out on the wing for 10-15 minutes as we don't have to change system and confuse everything. If you've watched Kit Symons' Under 21 side, though pre-built for him, he did look to use the pace of his players in a stylish fashion. Players like Dembele, Mesca, Tankovic, Christensen and Plumain were vital in the offensive side of the team.

Lets actually start building bricks with cement rather than Lego that can be taken apart easily.

[fulhamben]

I don't believe the accusations of ineptitude towards Kit Symons when it comes into a context he couldn't prevent. The squad was pre-built for him with the diamond in mind - a system which doesn't facilitate direct pace, but speed in a more engine like way in Lasse Vigen Christensen (who played 27 times under Kit Symons) and Seko Fofana (who played 25 matches at Craven Cottage).

Now, the frustration does appear to fall under the line of lack of pace in the wide areas, but I question you to find a team in this division that played a 17 year old on a weekly basis? Patrick Roberts still managed 14 appearances (although the majority are less than 15 minutes), George Williams played 15 games and was a key figure at one point but was taken out after a run of one win in 6 with him starting in the side. Alex Kacaniklic was vastly disappointing once returning to Craven Cottage, playing 15 times under Kit Symons but doing very little of note. You can point to Kit, but a player like Kacaniklic should be stepping up to the plate - I'd be open to bids to take him as we look at moving in a different direction.

We also lacked pace in the striking positions, with only one real vertical threat in Moussa Dembele (12 matches under Kit) as Adam Taggart has been out all season.

The sentiment of pace in the squad is certainly a valid one, but I think you need to redirect and discuss the variables. If we sign a Matt Jarvis (for example), of course we're going to use him, he's a got proven quality with the pace we need to give our squad another dimensions. Matt Jarvis *is* a senior player with the ability to take the responsibility on his shoulders with mature consistency. The key for me is to make us more tactically flexible, if we build a team for a 4231, it's then more simple to give (a year older) Patrick Roberts a run out on the wing for 10-15 minutes as we don't have to change system and confuse everything. If you've watched Kit Symons' Under 21 side, though pre-built for him, he did look to use the pace of his players in a stylish fashion. Players like Dembele, Mesca, Tankovic, Christensen and Plumain were vital in the offensive side of the team.

Lets actually start building bricks with cement rather than Lego that can be taken apart easily.

if the squad was pre built with the diamond in mind, then why did kit always fill the midfield with defenders?

[FPT]

I don't believe the accusations of ineptitude towards Kit Symons when it comes into a context he couldn't prevent. The squad was pre-built for him with the diamond in mind - a system which doesn't facilitate direct pace, but speed in a more engine like way in Lasse Vigen Christensen (who played 27 times under Kit Symons) and Seko Fofana (who played 25 matches at Craven Cottage).

Now, the frustration does appear to fall under the line of lack of pace in the wide areas, but I question you to find a team in this division that played a 17 year old on a weekly basis? Patrick Roberts still managed 14 appearances (although the majority are less than 15 minutes), George Williams played 15 games and was a key figure at one point but was taken out after a run of one win in 6 with him starting in the side. Alex Kacaniklic was vastly disappointing once returning to Craven Cottage, playing 15 times under Kit Symons but doing very little of note. You can point to Kit, but a player like Kacaniklic should be stepping up to the plate - I'd be open to bids to take him as we look at moving in a different direction.

We also lacked pace in the striking positions, with only one real vertical threat in Moussa Dembele (12 matches under Kit) as Adam Taggart has been out all season.

The sentiment of pace in the squad is certainly a valid one, but I think you need to redirect and discuss the variables. If we sign a Matt Jarvis (for example), of course we're going to use him, he's a got proven quality with the pace we need to give our squad another dimensions. Matt Jarvis *is* a senior player with the ability to take the responsibility on his shoulders with mature consistency. The key for me is to make us more tactically flexible, if we build a team for a 4231, it's then more simple to give (a year older) Patrick Roberts a run out on the wing for 10-15 minutes as we don't have to change system and confuse everything. If you've watched Kit Symons' Under 21 side, though pre-built for him, he did look to use the pace of his players in a stylish fashion. Players like Dembele, Mesca, Tankovic, Christensen and Plumain were vital in the offensive side of the team.

Lets actually start building bricks with cement rather than Lego that can be taken apart easily.

if the squad was pre built with the diamond in mind, then why did kit always fill the midfield with defenders?

Did he? You mean the technically comfortable Sean Kavanagh who added a balance the system? The only other I can think of is Tim Hoogland, where the side was clearly a 442 at the end of the season and he was playing as a right sided midfielder (Kavanagh the other side), not the diamond. Or when Tim Hoogland sat at the bottom of the diamond? The part where he was our top goal scorer?

Did you complain when Roy played a wide midfielder in Zoltan Gera behind Bobby Zamora? What about when attacker Mousa Dembele was moved to central midfield? Where you complaining when Sean Kavanagh slotted the winner against Norwich?

What was the job at hand? Stay up. Did Kit Symons move players about in doing that? Yes. Did the playing style change up? Yes. Did we stay up? Yes. He did what was needed with a squad that was not built for much much rotation. We could have experimented in a more exciting way, but you can argue that we wouldn't have stayed up.

[fulhamben]

I don't believe the accusations of ineptitude towards Kit Symons when it comes into a context he couldn't prevent. The squad was pre-built for him with the diamond in mind - a system which doesn't facilitate direct pace, but speed in a more engine like way in Lasse Vigen Christensen (who played 27 times under Kit Symons) and Seko Fofana (who played 25 matches at Craven Cottage).

Now, the frustration does appear to fall under the line of lack of pace in the wide areas, but I question you to find a team in this division that played a 17 year old on a weekly basis? Patrick Roberts still managed 14 appearances (although the majority are less than 15 minutes), George Williams played 15 games and was a key figure at one point but was taken out after a run of one win in 6 with him starting in the side. Alex Kacaniklic was vastly disappointing once returning to Craven Cottage, playing 15 times under Kit Symons but doing very little of note. You can point to Kit, but a player like Kacaniklic should be stepping up to the plate - I'd be open to bids to take him as we look at moving in a different direction.

We also lacked pace in the striking positions, with only one real vertical threat in Moussa Dembele (12 matches under Kit) as Adam Taggart has been out all season.

The sentiment of pace in the squad is certainly a valid one, but I think you need to redirect and discuss the variables. If we sign a Matt Jarvis (for example), of course we're going to use him, he's a got proven quality with the pace we need to give our squad another dimensions. Matt Jarvis *is* a senior player with the ability to take the responsibility on his shoulders with mature consistency. The key for me is to make us more tactically flexible, if we build a team for a 4231, it's then more simple to give (a year older) Patrick Roberts a run out on the wing for 10-15 minutes as we don't have to change system and confuse everything. If you've watched Kit Symons' Under 21 side, though pre-built for him, he did look to use the pace of his players in a stylish fashion. Players like Dembele, Mesca, Tankovic, Christensen and Plumain were vital in the offensive side of the team.

Lets actually start building bricks with cement rather than Lego that can be taken apart easily.

if the squad was pre built with the diamond in mind, then why did kit always fill the midfield with defenders?

Did he? You mean the technically comfortable Sean Kavanagh who added a balance the system? The only other I can think of is Tim Hoogland, where the side was clearly a 442 at the end of the season and he was playing as a right sided midfielder (Kavanagh the other side), not the diamond. Or when Tim Hoogland sat at the bottom of the diamond? The part where he was our top goal scorer?

Did you complain when Roy played a wide midfielder in Zoltan Gera behind Bobby Zamora? What about when attacker Mousa Dembele was moved to central midfield? Where you complaining when Sean Kavanagh slotted the winner against Norwich?

What was the job at hand? Stay up. Did Kit Symons move players about in doing that? Yes. Did the playing style change up? Yes. Did we stay up? Yes. He did what was needed with a squad that was not built for much much rotation. We could have experimented in a more exciting way, but you can argue that we wouldn't have stayed up.

lol. and why would i complain about what roy did? he was a good manager who also got results. the diamond didnt work, we didnt have the players for it and the persistance with it nearly took us down

[FPT]

lol. and why would i complain about what roy did? he was a good manager who also got results. the diamond didnt work, we didnt have the players for it and the persistance with it nearly took us down

What would you have done? The teams' strongest players were all in the middle - the diamond saw us able to fit in (and get the best out of) both Ross McCormack and Lasse Vigen Christensen, they're are two huge reasons as to why we stayed up. Christensen would not have had near as much freedom to affect the game going forward had he played in a 442. We got the results we needed at the end of the day, and I saw enough potential of what was done in during the entire reign to believe in Kit Symons to have a part to play in the club moving forward. Kit Symons took over a team in a worse off position than Roy Hodgson did for the great escape, just Kit got more time to solve it.

It was not the 'persistence' with the diamond that nearly took us down, it was a factor, but it was not the reason. And that does not come under Kit's head for the team already being built for it.

[fulhamben]

lol. and why would i complain about what roy did? he was a good manager who also got results. the diamond didnt work, we didnt have the players for it and the persistance with it nearly took us down

What would you have done? The teams' strongest players were all in the middle - the diamond saw us able to fit in (and get the best out of) both Ross McCormack and Lasse Vigen Christensen, they're are two huge reasons as to why we stayed up. Christensen would not have had near as much freedom to affect the game going forward had he played in a 442. We got the results we needed at the end of the day, and I saw enough potential of what was done in during the entire reign to believe in Kit Symons to have a part to play in the club moving forward. Kit Symons took over a team in a worse off position than Roy Hodgson did for the great escape, just Kit got more time to solve it.

It was not the 'persistence' with the diamond that nearly took us down, it was a factor, but it was not the reason. And that does not come under Kit's head for the team already being built for it.

not sure what i would have done as i dont get the players for training. i wouldnt persist with something that didnt work though, thats just madness. and lvc could play as a box to box in a flat four all day long.

[FPT]

lol. and why would i complain about what roy did? he was a good manager who also got results. the diamond didnt work, we didnt have the players for it and the persistance with it nearly took us down

What would you have done? The teams' strongest players were all in the middle - the diamond saw us able to fit in (and get the best out of) both Ross McCormack and Lasse Vigen Christensen, they're are two huge reasons as to why we stayed up. Christensen would not have had near as much freedom to affect the game going forward had he played in a 442. We got the results we needed at the end of the day, and I saw enough potential of what was done in during the entire reign to believe in Kit Symons to have a part to play in the club moving forward. Kit Symons took over a team in a worse off position than Roy Hodgson did for the great escape, just Kit got more time to solve it.

It was not the 'persistence' with the diamond that nearly took us down, it was a factor, but it was not the reason. And that does not come under Kit's head for the team already being built for it.

not sure what i would have done as i dont get the players for training. i wouldnt persist with something that didnt work though, thats just madness. and lvc could play as a box to box in a flat four all day long.

He went to a 442! He ground out results at the end of the season, as ugly as it was, to discredit him for changing it up is ludicrous to me.

And Lasse Vigen Christensen could - never has, but could - although a three man midfield protects him fourfold. The 442 is so more tactically strict, and in the ever more quick English divisions, he couldn't affect the game more than he could in a three man midfield. There would need to be a link between he and the striker for him to have the same affect, a 4231 would be better with him next to a strict defensive midfielder.

[fulhamben]

lol. and why would i complain about what roy did? he was a good manager who also got results. the diamond didnt work, we didnt have the players for it and the persistance with it nearly took us down

What would you have done? The teams' strongest players were all in the middle - the diamond saw us able to fit in (and get the best out of) both Ross McCormack and Lasse Vigen Christensen, they're are two huge reasons as to why we stayed up. Christensen would not have had near as much freedom to affect the game going forward had he played in a 442. We got the results we needed at the end of the day, and I saw enough potential of what was done in during the entire reign to believe in Kit Symons to have a part to play in the club moving forward. Kit Symons took over a team in a worse off position than Roy Hodgson did for the great escape, just Kit got more time to solve it.

It was not the 'persistence' with the diamond that nearly took us down, it was a factor, but it was not the reason. And that does not come under Kit's head for the team already being built for it.

not sure what i would have done as i dont get the players for training. i wouldnt persist with something that didnt work though, thats just madness. and lvc could play as a box to box in a flat four all day long.

He went to a 442! He ground out results at the end of the season, as ugly as it was, to discredit him for changing it up is ludicrous to me.

And Lasse Vigen Christensen could - never has, but could - although a three man midfield protects him fourfold. The 442 is so more tactically strict, and in the ever more quick English divisions, he couldn't affect the game more than he could in a three man midfield. There would need to be a link between he and the striker for him to have the same affect, a 4231 would be better with him next to a strict defensive midfielder.

im not discrediting him for changing it up, im discrediting you for claiming he inherited a squad designed for a diamond formation. felix used the diamond 3 times in 8 games, and if i recall correctly kit didnt use the diamond once whilst he was caretaker (probably why we won so much) so neither of them saw the squad as a squad built for the diamond

[YankeeJim]

FPT, you really need to stop talking sense. You only confuse poor Ben since it goes against his preconceived notions.

[fulhamben]

FPT, you really need to stop talking sense. You only confuse poor Ben since it goes against his preconceived notions.

so you think we had a squad built for the diamond even though felix who built the squad didnt? and also even though the squad was built for the diamond, kit decided that the way to go was with defenders and sometimes strikers in midfield. in which universe does that sound like a squad for the diamond. truth is kit shipped out the players that could have prevented the dreaded diamond

[YankeeJim]

FPT, you really need to stop talking sense. You only confuse poor Ben since it goes against his preconceived notions.

so you think we had a squad built for the diamond even though felix who built the squad didnt? and also even though the squad was built for the diamond, kit decided that the way to go was with defenders and sometimes strikers in midfield. in which universe does that sound like a squad for the diamond. truth is kit shipped out the players that could have prevented the dreaded diamond

Like I said FPT, Ben is confused. Kit played what players he had from a squad that was extremely unbalanced. If Felix hadn't stumbled over Bodurov, & I believe he did it as an afterthought, we might have conceded 125 goals. We had very few defenders and other than LVC, no good midfielders. Judge the man on what happens over the next 3-6 months. Please reread what FPT wrote. Nothing is perfect but he's closer than you.

[fulhamben]

FPT, you really need to stop talking sense. You only confuse poor Ben since it goes against his preconceived notions.

so you think we had a squad built for the diamond even though felix who built the squad didnt? and also even though the squad was built for the diamond, kit decided that the way to go was with defenders and sometimes strikers in midfield. in which universe does that sound like a squad for the diamond. truth is kit shipped out the players that could have prevented the dreaded diamond

Like I said FPT, Ben is confused. Kit played what players he had from a squad that was extremely unbalanced. If Felix hadn't stumbled over Bodurov, & I believe he did it as an afterthought, we might have conceded 125 goals. We had very few defenders and other than LVC, no good midfielders. Judge the man on what happens over the next 3-6 months. Please reread what FPT wrote. Nothing is perfect but he's closer than you.

im not judging the man, im just stating that in no way was the squad assembled for the diamond. and the fact that you yourself say that the squad was unbalanced just confirms what im saying.

[Lighthouse]

We had no players of pace out wide. Few players of any pace in the squad at all. We used Kaka and Roberts sparingly as they proved they were not good enough. Roberts is a great talent but not yet. Now without any width where was the formation supposed to go? Kit changed the formation several times. At home we tried an attacking formation after a spell of creating no chances at all. This led to a few heavy defeats but we created more chances. Kit then changed the formation again and tried to bolster the midfield and defence and scraping for the points needed to stay up. Which we did.

Now if we ever get players with pace than they will be played. But to suggest that somehow Symons who bought not one player is somehow not going to play pacey players if he has them is ludicrous. So can we stop pretending that he created the diamond and stuck to it when we really mean is we had to play narrow because when we didn't we were badly punished. Without decent players we had no options. Even those who hate Symons can see that surely.

[Jonaldiniho 88]

We had no players of pace out wide. Few players of any pace in the squad at all. We used Kaka and Roberts sparingly as they proved they were not good enough. Roberts is a great talent but not yet. Now without any width where was the formation supposed to go? Kit changed the formation several times. At home we tried an attacking formation after a spell of creating no chances at all. This led to a few heavy defeats but we created more chances. Kit then changed the formation again and tried to bolster the midfield and defence and scraping for the points needed to stay up. Which we did.

Now if we ever get players with pace than they will be played. But to suggest that somehow Symons who bought not one player is somehow not going to play pacey players if he has them is ludicrous. So can we stop pretending that he created the diamond and stuck to it when we really mean is we had to play narrow because when we didn't we were badly punished. Without decent players we had no options. Even those who hate Symons can see that surely.

Is kaka not championship standard? How do we know? He started bugger all games, we conceded and then he was sacrificed due to that. Did we pass him the ball? Did he have a fair chance? Did Roberts? This is nothing to do with criticising management but if I can't criticise management how can you criticise the players without actually playing them in a stable team? Give kaka ten games in the same position and see how he does. We gave kit 38 and he under-performed and he is still in a job. Hope kit succeeds next year but don't you hope kaka does?