Had a business meeting next to Craven Cottage today

[Wearethewhites]

So walked back passed the ground and popped into the Cafe' for a quick coffee. Surprised to see quite a bit of activity going on, Alic Mac was in and out, showing what looked like corporate people around, he was greeting members of the public outside, talking, shaking hands, chatting. Both the Club shop and Ticket office was open, scaffolding and netting was up around the Cottage with quite a few workmen floating round.

Say what you want about Ali Mac, but from a non-business point of view, he seems quite involved and approachable as a person.   

[Scrumpy]

Always good to have the excuse to pop in if nearby.

I agree with you regarding Ali Mac. A friend of mine drinks in the Earl Beatty and says he is always approachable, seems intelligent and very enthusiastic. Gives the impression of being a really sharp, switched-on person who cares passionately about the Club.

Trouble is, from the outside his results look awful. Player recruitment under him was not great, Felix was a disaster, and his current 'baby', the Riverside Development seems to be dragging on and on.

I just wish the Club would give us more info. Even a website interview just reviewing what he has achieved in the last 6 months would be interesting, and maybe take the heat off him a little bit. Or perhaps he is just rubbish and should get the old tin tack?

[leonffc]

Always good to have the excuse to pop in if nearby.

I agree with you regarding Ali Mac. A friend of mine drinks in the Earl Beatty and says he is always approachable, seems intelligent and very enthusiastic. Gives the impression of being a really sharp, switched-on person who cares passionately about the Club.

Does Ali Mac drink in the Earl Beatty? Seems a bit rough and ready for an exec type

[mrmicawbers]

Met him at a late night drinking establishment in Putney after a game. Was pretty worse for wear.I initially said I know who you are.John Collins.He smiles politely an shakes his head.I apologise and said I'm sorry it's Billy mckinley.At this point my Fulham Pal puts me straight.He took it well laughed an bought us us drinks.

[cmg]

Does Ali Mac drink in the Earl Beatty? Seems a bit rough and ready for an exec type

'Exec types' looking for a non-rough and ready pint within a mile of Motspur Park need either to be keen walkers or stay thirsty.  :dft011:
In fact there used to be a very nice bar at the top of the old stand at MP, but doubtless that has long been converted to some more practical, if less convivial purpose. 082.gif

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Always good to have the excuse to pop in if nearby.

I agree with you regarding Ali Mac. A friend of mine drinks in the Earl Beatty and says he is always approachable, seems intelligent and very enthusiastic. Gives the impression of being a really sharp, switched-on person who cares passionately about the Club.

Trouble is, from the outside his results look awful. Player recruitment under him was not great, Felix was a disaster, and his current 'baby', the Riverside Development seems to be dragging on and on.

I just wish the Club would give us more info. Even a website interview just reviewing what he has achieved in the last 6 months would be interesting, and maybe take the heat off him a little bit. Or perhaps he is just rubbish and should get the old tin tack?

These are only issues if you believe the doom and gloom merchants looking for a scapegoat. It seems unlikely that Mackintosh had the whole or even the lead role in the recruitment of players or of Magath. Even the recruitment of Rigg can be seen simply as a reaction to having a novice manager, Symons, rather than an experienced one like Hodgson, Hughes, Jol or Magath.

The Riverside development is a complicated one having to negotiate with a vocal residents group and agree access to both Bishop's Park and, via a different authority, the river. Most of the work for the sake of the Riverside season ticket holders will have to take place over the summer and this is the first summer where work can take place. I suspect that most of the abuse is coming from armchair critics who would take a weekend to put together a flat pack coffee table and still have some screws left over.

Might the assessment of your friend who has met him face to face be nearer the mark?

[Holders]

take a weekend to put together a flat pack coffee table and still have some screws left over.

Love it!

[alfie]

Always good to have the excuse to pop in if nearby.

I agree with you regarding Ali Mac. A friend of mine drinks in the Earl Beatty and says he is always approachable, seems intelligent and very enthusiastic. Gives the impression of being a really sharp, switched-on person who cares passionately about the Club.

Trouble is, from the outside his results look awful. Player recruitment under him was not great, Felix was a disaster, and his current 'baby', the Riverside Development seems to be dragging on and on.

I just wish the Club would give us more info. Even a website interview just reviewing what he has achieved in the last 6 months would be interesting, and maybe take the heat off him a little bit. Or perhaps he is just rubbish and should get the old tin tack?

These are only issues if you believe the doom and gloom merchants looking for a scapegoat. It seems unlikely that Mackintosh had the whole or even the lead role in the recruitment of players or of Magath. Even the recruitment of Rigg can be seen simply as a reaction to having a novice manager, Symons, rather than an experienced one like Hodgson, Hughes, Jol or Magath.

The Riverside development is a complicated one having to negotiate with a vocal residents group and agree access to both Bishop's Park and, via a different authority, the river. Most of the work for the sake of the Riverside season ticket holders will have to take place over the summer and this is the first summer where work can take place. I suspect that most of the abuse is coming from armchair critics who would take a weekend to put together a flat pack coffee table and still have some screws left over.

Might the assessment of your friend who has met him face to face be nearer the mark?

Totally agree with you, as much as this forum is fantastic to be on, it is also a forum of assumptions as opposed to facts. Ali M got/gets blamed for a lot of things without any of us know for sure what he is/has/will be involved in, like most of us he has a boss and he will work to the bosses instructions, and that was especially true with MAF.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Always good to have the excuse to pop in if nearby.

I agree with you regarding Ali Mac. A friend of mine drinks in the Earl Beatty and says he is always approachable, seems intelligent and very enthusiastic. Gives the impression of being a really sharp, switched-on person who cares passionately about the Club.

Trouble is, from the outside his results look awful. Player recruitment under him was not great, Felix was a disaster, and his current 'baby', the Riverside Development seems to be dragging on and on.

I just wish the Club would give us more info. Even a website interview just reviewing what he has achieved in the last 6 months would be interesting, and maybe take the heat off him a little bit. Or perhaps he is just rubbish and should get the old tin tack?

These are only issues if you believe the doom and gloom merchants looking for a scapegoat. It seems unlikely that Mackintosh had the whole or even the lead role in the recruitment of players or of Magath. Even the recruitment of Rigg can be seen simply as a reaction to having a novice manager, Symons, rather than an experienced one like Hodgson, Hughes, Jol or Magath.

The Riverside development is a complicated one having to negotiate with a vocal residents group and agree access to both Bishop's Park and, via a different authority, the river. Most of the work for the sake of the Riverside season ticket holders will have to take place over the summer and this is the first summer where work can take place. I suspect that most of the abuse is coming from armchair critics who would take a weekend to put together a flat pack coffee table and still have some screws left over.

Might the assessment of your friend who has met him face to face be nearer the mark?

I regularly speak up for the manager, Rigg and others on this forum but it's difficult to defend Mackintosh.

I find it hard to believe none of the things Scrumpy mentions were AM's job, or the job of people to whom he'd delegated that responsibility.

If he's one of five people jointly responsible for each of five failures then in my eyes that's as bad as being solely responsible for one.

Even if these things were all outside his remit, any organisation's stakeholders must hope that at some point in 3 yrs of disaster a senior employee paid £500k pa will look over a colleague's shoulder and say, 'hey, you're doing that wrong.'

Otherwise if all these people around him really are just reporting directly into Khan and none of AM's business, then wtf is he paid all that money to do?

Football clubs, and Fulham in particular, are not structured and run like most other businesses of their size.

For a start they usually have one private owner rather than many shareholders. And big decisions like hiring and firing and investment are usually ultimately in the owner's hands.

The business is also unlike most others in that while the CEO is responsible for the financial side the results that really matter are those on the pitch and in the league table.

Those results are the responsibility of the manager/head coach. The two sets of skills of CEO and manager are practically mutually exclusive.. Why would the CEO of a football club be given control over player recruitment or even over the appointment of a new manager? That would be a very stupid decision.

As for the Riverside development I am unclear that there have been any issues, just impatience based on unrealistic expectations from some quarters.

As for what he does for his £500k well he has overall responsibility for all those aspects behind the scenes that most of us don't know or care about in a multi-million pound business (I am not arguing that sort of money is justified but I suspect that it is the going rate).

[3rd attempt to register!]

Is this the same Alistair Mckintosh that told all and sundry that there was no danger of us
falling foul of FFP? How come all of a sudden he is Mr Popularity? At 500k per annum he ought to be approachable, and is that really the going rate for his job.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Always good to have the excuse to pop in if nearby.

I agree with you regarding Ali Mac. A friend of mine drinks in the Earl Beatty and says he is always approachable, seems intelligent and very enthusiastic. Gives the impression of being a really sharp, switched-on person who cares passionately about the Club.

Trouble is, from the outside his results look awful. Player recruitment under him was not great, Felix was a disaster, and his current 'baby', the Riverside Development seems to be dragging on and on.

I just wish the Club would give us more info. Even a website interview just reviewing what he has achieved in the last 6 months would be interesting, and maybe take the heat off him a little bit. Or perhaps he is just rubbish and should get the old tin tack?

These are only issues if you believe the doom and gloom merchants looking for a scapegoat. It seems unlikely that Mackintosh had the whole or even the lead role in the recruitment of players or of Magath. Even the recruitment of Rigg can be seen simply as a reaction to having a novice manager, Symons, rather than an experienced one like Hodgson, Hughes, Jol or Magath.

The Riverside development is a complicated one having to negotiate with a vocal residents group and agree access to both Bishop's Park and, via a different authority, the river. Most of the work for the sake of the Riverside season ticket holders will have to take place over the summer and this is the first summer where work can take place. I suspect that most of the abuse is coming from armchair critics who would take a weekend to put together a flat pack coffee table and still have some screws left over.

Might the assessment of your friend who has met him face to face be nearer the mark?

I regularly speak up for the manager, Rigg and others on this forum but it's difficult to defend Mackintosh.

I find it hard to believe none of the things Scrumpy mentions were AM's job, or the job of people to whom he'd delegated that responsibility.

If he's one of five people jointly responsible for each of five failures then in my eyes that's as bad as being solely responsible for one.

Even if these things were all outside his remit, any organisation's stakeholders must hope that at some point in 3 yrs of disaster a senior employee paid £500k pa will look over a colleague's shoulder and say, 'hey, you're doing that wrong.'

Otherwise if all these people around him really are just reporting directly into Khan and none of AM's business, then wtf is he paid all that money to do?

Football clubs, and Fulham in particular, are not structured and run like most other businesses of their size.

For a start they usually have one private owner rather than many shareholders. And big decisions like hiring and firing and investment are usually ultimately in the owner's hands.

The business is also unlike most others in that while the CEO is responsible for the financial side the results that really matter are those on the pitch and in the league table.

Those results are the responsibility of the manager/head coach. The two sets of skills of CEO and manager are practically mutually exclusive.. Why would the CEO of a football club be given control over player recruitment or even over the appointment of a new manager? That would be a very stupid decision.

As for the Riverside development I am unclear that there have been any issues, just impatience based on unrealistic expectations from some quarters.

As for what he does for his £500k well he has overall responsibility for all those aspects behind the scenes that most of us don't know or care about in a multi-million pound business (I am not arguing that sort of money is justified but I suspect that it is the going rate).

The business of football has its peculiarities but it's not some unfathomably complex world none of us could understand. Eg the vast majority of businesses are private (rather than public) companies with one or few shareholders... nothing unusual there. So I'm sorry but for a business whose product is football, I can't believe neither our most senior employee nor anyone reporting into him has been involved in player transfers (in particular, Mitroglou), manager and coaching staff recruitment, negotiating and the foregoing persons' contracts (and the lack of relegation clauses), our accounts (FFP) or stadium development (now clearly delayed) in the last three years. Whatever that leaves over, it's not something that generates any revenue.

Of course the structure is not unfathomable. Of course the CEO is involved in the transfers and contract negotiations. Of course the CEO is involved in the accounts.

But posters keep on making speculative and inaccurate statements.

For a start clearly there are other areas that generate revenue under the CEO such as hospitality, merchandise, food and drink and sponsorship to name but a few.

Also can you back up your point about relegation clauses with information about what the club does and how it compares with other clubs?

And in what way is the redevelopment clearly delayed?

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Well if AM's involved in transfers and FFP then he must take at least some of the blame for things like the Mitroglou signing and breaching FFP, surely.

Thanks also for reminding me of another cock-up - sponsorship and the Visit Florida debacle!

We generated £5.2m revenue from ALL sponsorship and other commercial streams last year so AM must be generating a hell of a profit margin on the things he doesn't cock-up to justify taking more than 10% of that (£555,000) as salary.

A lack of relegation clauses is the one thing that might explain us breaching FFP despite the fire sale of players. But either AM is to blame for not putting those clauses in place, or if they were in place, then he's to blame for not keeping us within FFP limits with no other excuse for that.

As for the stadium, this was all approved and contractors appointed in 2012/13 and still there's been no spade in the ground, so how are we even arguing about whether it's delayed? AM himself was quoted in articles last summer talking about construction starting this year. And of course all the stuff on the stadium development section of the website has inexplicably been taken down. 

http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/fulham-fans-walk-water-after-9381534?
http://jacksonville.com/sports/football/jaguars/2015-10-23/story/shad-khan-investing-big-state-art-expansion-fulham-soccer#

Clearly you have made up your mind and are going to use every possible problem to add to your case.

What if Mackingtosh was told to sign Mitrolglu by Khan or Khan's son or Lamping? Why should he be blamed then?

FFP? Well I imagine that there was a plan to cope with relegation including selling expensive assets like Mitroglu and Steklenburg that didn't quite come off. You can't force other clubs to buy your players particularly if they weren't the soundest of buys in the first place.

You make no attempt to provide evidence about relegation clauses as I asked for in my previous response to justify your assertions.

It seems to me that the redevelopment is a large complicated construction project with many stages and factors including a new owner, the sailing club, environmental issues and approval for work on the river front. I don't think at any stage has the plan been suspended. Anyway I thought work was starting this summer.

[Scrumpy]

ATTM I don't necessarily disagree with you. I agree he may have been told to sign Mitroglou and had a reasonable plan re. FFP and so on. My general view is just that with each new cock-up (or ostensible cock-up) by the club it's hard (not impossible, but hard) to keep thinking of fact patterns and explanations where AM is blameless. Anyway thanks for a decent, civil discussion.
082.gif

Very well put.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

ATTM I don't necessarily disagree with you. I agree he may have been told to sign Mitroglou and had a reasonable plan re. FFP and so on. My general view is just that with each new cock-up (or ostensible cock-up) by the club it's hard (not impossible, but hard) to keep thinking of fact patterns and explanations where AM is blameless. Anyway thanks for a decent, civil discussion.
082.gif

I tend to put the problems down to a series of issues by a variety of people such as MAF, not unreasonably, setting up the club for sale, an aging squad, the loss of Hodgson, the loss of Dembele and Dempsey, a new naive owner, Steklenburg not being the new Schwarzer, Parker not being the new Murphy, etc., etc.. For me most of our problems have been on the pitch or on the side of the pitch.

I don't know for what or to what degree Mackintosh, Khan or any other person is to blame for the various issues. I just notice that often when a case is being made rather a lot of assumptions have to be put together and blood pressure readings seem to go through the roof which cannot be a good thing.

One last thing: Mackintosh is still there. I should think that this means that he has not made as many mistakes as have been attributed to him and also that he does not feel under pressure as he could have chosen to leave to 'seek a new challenge'.

Thanks also for keeping it civil. 082.gif

[Logicalman]

Apprentice, I believe you have it right there. I don't see issues suddenly appearing from nowhere, they are as a result of other things, some of which have a history to them.
It does feel unfortunate that MaFs legacy, which was a great one for our club, might be subject to some level of varnish, but it is what it is. Khan is the current incumbent and it will be for him, and the management team he keeps, to ensure that all the work MaF did in the preceding decade+ is maintained to a large degree.

[Jim]

He is the CEO of the club, he needs to take accountability for the shambles along with the rest of the Board. He is paid good money so take the bad with the good. Time for him to go so let's drop the PR excercise