Roy resign, Rooney retire. That was unacceptable

[Rhys Lightning 63]

I blame that crap brass band, kills all the atmosphere for England, When was the last time you heard England fans come up with a good chant all you get the bloody Great Escape tune. TIME TO SACK THE BRASS BAND

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the Welsh equivalent, The Barry Horns

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWonUEEoVYc

[Beamer]

Surely it couldn't be a question of unrealistic expectations could it. The only team in the group who couldn't beat Russia, a scrambled result against a lowly ranked Wales (I know they have reached the quarters but let's be honest they got there by beating the might of NI) and a poor draw with Slovakia who promptly got thumped by Germany. We are actually not very good and simply don't have the players with the ability to compete at the upper levels. Look at the squads of the top teams and decide who of our team would get into their starting X1s. Add to that some basic errors in selection and tactics and you really can't be surprised at our inability to get very far in these comps.
I have read that our PL isn't the great league we think it is but it probably is as good as any and much of that is because of the overseas players in it. How would it be better if we got rid of them and played amongst ourselves, at least we get the opportunity to test our players against the best and let them see where they need to be if they wish to compete. Sterling has been slated because of his performances this time around but the question really is why was he there at all, with his obvious weaknesses in technical ability such as control, awareness and crossing but are there any really much better wingers out there to choose from.
Probably the most naturally talented player in our squad is 18 and got 5 minutes, not suggesting that he should have started but 5 minutes really. Wilshire has hardly played this year and it showed, Walker looked like a man dead on his feet from mental fatigue rather than physical but Clyne just sat on the bench instead of replacing Walker who no longer had the legs to get in behind when it was clear we needed Sturridge in the middle where his tricks and quick feet might have added something. Not suggesting that we would have gone much further anyway but how did we manage to get so much wrong, not just on the night but generally throughout the comp.   

[dannyboi-ffc]

Surely it couldn't be a question of unrealistic expectations could it. The only team in the group who couldn't beat Russia, a scrambled result against a lowly ranked Wales (I know they have reached the quarters but let's be honest they got there by beating the might of NI) and a poor draw with Slovakia who promptly got thumped by Germany. We are actually not very good and simply don't have the players with the ability to compete at the upper levels. Look at the squads of the top teams and decide who of our team would get into their starting X1s. Add to that some basic errors in selection and tactics and you really can't be surprised at our inability to get very far in these comps.
I have read that our PL isn't the great league we think it is but it probably is as good as any and much of that is because of the overseas players in it. How would it be better if we got rid of them and played amongst ourselves, at least we get the opportunity to test our players against the best and let them see where they need to be if they wish to compete. Sterling has been slated because of his performances this time around but the question really is why was he there at all, with his obvious weaknesses in technical ability such as control, awareness and crossing but are there any really much better wingers out there to choose from.
Probably the most naturally talented player in our squad is 18 and got 5 minutes, not suggesting that he should have started but 5 minutes really. Wilshire has hardly played this year and it showed, Walker looked like a man dead on his feet from mental fatigue rather than physical but Clyne just sat on the bench instead of replacing Walker who no longer had the legs to get in behind when it was clear we needed Sturridge in the middle where his tricks and quick feet might have added something. Not suggesting that we would have gone much further anyway but how did we manage to get so much wrong, not just on the night but generally throughout the comp.   

I think the fact so much went wrong meant Roy had to resign. There can be no excuses, the players aren't very good, we shouldn't expect to go further than the quarters but come on Roy.

For me he looks past it now. A great man, a great manager for Fulham but for England he has been awful and probably needs to retire or become a DOF somewhere.

[Beamer]

Surely it couldn't be a question of unrealistic expectations could it. The only team in the group who couldn't beat Russia, a scrambled result against a lowly ranked Wales (I know they have reached the quarters but let's be honest they got there by beating the might of NI) and a poor draw with Slovakia who promptly got thumped by Germany. We are actually not very good and simply don't have the players with the ability to compete at the upper levels. Look at the squads of the top teams and decide who of our team would get into their starting X1s. Add to that some basic errors in selection and tactics and you really can't be surprised at our inability to get very far in these comps.
I have read that our PL isn't the great league we think it is but it probably is as good as any and much of that is because of the overseas players in it. How would it be better if we got rid of them and played amongst ourselves, at least we get the opportunity to test our players against the best and let them see where they need to be if they wish to compete. Sterling has been slated because of his performances this time around but the question really is why was he there at all, with his obvious weaknesses in technical ability such as control, awareness and crossing but are there any really much better wingers out there to choose from.
Probably the most naturally talented player in our squad is 18 and got 5 minutes, not suggesting that he should have started but 5 minutes really. Wilshire has hardly played this year and it showed, Walker looked like a man dead on his feet from mental fatigue rather than physical but Clyne just sat on the bench instead of replacing Walker who no longer had the legs to get in behind when it was clear we needed Sturridge in the middle where his tricks and quick feet might have added something. Not suggesting that we would have gone much further anyway but how did we manage to get so much wrong, not just on the night but generally throughout the comp.   

I think the fact so much went wrong meant Roy had to resign. There can be no excuses, the players aren't very good, we shouldn't expect to go further than the quarters but come on Roy.

For me he looks past it now. A great man, a great manager for Fulham but for England he has been awful and probably needs to retire or become a DOF somewhere.

Agree and pleased he realised it was best to go before he was pushed.

[dannyboi-ffc]

Surely it couldn't be a question of unrealistic expectations could it. The only team in the group who couldn't beat Russia, a scrambled result against a lowly ranked Wales (I know they have reached the quarters but let's be honest they got there by beating the might of NI) and a poor draw with Slovakia who promptly got thumped by Germany. We are actually not very good and simply don't have the players with the ability to compete at the upper levels. Look at the squads of the top teams and decide who of our team would get into their starting X1s. Add to that some basic errors in selection and tactics and you really can't be surprised at our inability to get very far in these comps.
I have read that our PL isn't the great league we think it is but it probably is as good as any and much of that is because of the overseas players in it. How would it be better if we got rid of them and played amongst ourselves, at least we get the opportunity to test our players against the best and let them see where they need to be if they wish to compete. Sterling has been slated because of his performances this time around but the question really is why was he there at all, with his obvious weaknesses in technical ability such as control, awareness and crossing but are there any really much better wingers out there to choose from.
Probably the most naturally talented player in our squad is 18 and got 5 minutes, not suggesting that he should have started but 5 minutes really. Wilshire has hardly played this year and it showed, Walker looked like a man dead on his feet from mental fatigue rather than physical but Clyne just sat on the bench instead of replacing Walker who no longer had the legs to get in behind when it was clear we needed Sturridge in the middle where his tricks and quick feet might have added something. Not suggesting that we would have gone much further anyway but how did we manage to get so much wrong, not just on the night but generally throughout the comp.   

I think the fact so much went wrong meant Roy had to resign. There can be no excuses, the players aren't very good, we shouldn't expect to go further than the quarters but come on Roy.

For me he looks past it now. A great man, a great manager for Fulham but for England he has been awful and probably needs to retire or become a DOF somewhere.

Agree and pleased he realised it was best to go before he was pushed.

Judging from the speech he read I got the impression  he was leaving regardless of when or how we went out. His contract was up. He is quick if he prepared that speech after the game anyway, it must have been written in preparation.

[Mince n Tatties]

Has anybody heard anything from Woolly Mammoth about this?
Nogood "sorry Woolly, couldn't resist the low blow, isit" Boyo

Last seen heading a new expedition to the South Pole I believe. :022:

[ffcthereligion]

Petition to replay the match because we lost!!

[jarv]

As a passionate supporter of Scotland for decades, WELCOME TO MY WORLD.  I see parallels, the English players think they are better than they are. Similarly a long time ago Scotland had Dalglish, Strachan, Souness etc etc. They always went to finals full of hope and were home before the postcards (as they say).

Not entirely Roy's fault, I have said it many times, it does not matter who manages England, the outcome will always be the same. Easy passage to the finals, beating the likes of Andorra and the Isle of Wight, then...choke!

[NogoodBoyo]

The choke view is interesting.
If you look at the results since 1966 and pay particularly close attention to the key losses on penalties, it seems a given that English footballers are not winners.  In fact they are losers. 
Is it a national trait?  No.  English rugby players are winners (the Welsh in me finds it hard to write that, but it's an honest opinion based upon results).  English cricketers are sometimes winners.  And English athletes and cyclists can not be describes as losers either.
Who are the real winners?  In football look no further than Germany, Italy, France (sometimes) and Brazil (maybe no longer).  To me the best winning sports team of all time has to be New Zealand at rugby.  Skill, power, strength, passion, fitness coupled with a fierce will to win that overcomes all.
Nogood "sorry England - just can't cut it when it counts, isit" Boyo

[One James stannard]

BTW, after all the s**t you gave us over 'one man team', you can shove your 'we can all support Wales now' nonsense up your backside
[/quoted

I would love to give my honest reply to his pathetic post but I would be banned from using this forum!!!  :dft007:

[filham]

Can't think of a good word to say for England, they were awful in all aspects of the game, passing was terrible, shooting was hopeless, set pieces were all wasted and man for man they were individually outplayed.

We start qualification games for the World Cup in September and at this moment I think our best hope is to give big Sam Allardyce the job and for him to use Carrol at centre forward with a couple of good wingers and for them to play an old fashioned long ball game. OK not a classic approach but at least we would go down fighting against teams like Iceland.

[YoungsBitter]

BTW, after all the s**t you gave us over 'one man team', you can shove your 'we can all support Wales now' nonsense up your backside

The Welsh care more about England failing than the Welsh succeeding.

Roy and Ray can motivate a team. I seem  to remember them getting a team without any stars to a European final. Roy was also successful with Switzerland. Let's keep the conversation sensible.

It's the players who can't even do the simple things, those that they do most weeks for their clubs, like pass the ball to their teammates.

I think once again we are tempted to be generous with Roy based on that sentimental belief from his Fulham days. I think the last 4 years has shown, sadly, that Roy is a one trick pony. It worked with a humble and disorganized Swiss squad but their crowning glory under Hodgson was qualifying to a World Cup/Euros  in 1994-6 based primarily in being unbeaten through draws. It worked with a humble and disorganized Fulham squad to get to the final of Europa. However many of us also remember the mind numbing games with Roy with no ideas or creativity - "how about a sub Roy?".
He was unsuccessful at Liverpool for the same reasons he was unsuccessful at England. Lacking in plan B or C and does not have the ability to inspire guys 45 years his junior.
Conte has shown what coaching and leadership is like and his Italian team of average and quite old players have responded. I think the constant selection issues - chopping and changing, no defined style, poor judgement through sticking to favorites ( Hart? Wilshere? Rooney? Lailana?) where all the evidence was that there were better options which then demotivates the others. Poor use of subs except when desperate against Wales.

Yesterday was all you ever needed to see about Hodgson's limitations as a national team coach. Rigid, complacent in his own knowledge, didnt bother scouting Iceland at all, clueless to change when obvious to everyone the system was not working, Wilshere for Dier was like for like, Vardy was wasted wide left as Sturridge was wasted wide right just so Roy's great master stroke  of playing Rooney in midfield could be continued. Kane taking corners and free kicks? Rashford did more in 6 minutes than Kane did all game...

He may be, as we all think on this Board, a really nice guy. I just think he should not have been the England coach still after the previous problems.

[filham]

I wouldn't blame Roy for that terrible performance, man for man Iceland were better than us on the night.
I would expect that England team if sent onto the pitch without a manager or coach to be able to beat Iceland.

Roy has done the honourable thing and resigned, the players should now issue an apology and offer to play all world cup qualifiers unpaid.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

BTW, after all the s**t you gave us over 'one man team', you can shove your 'we can all support Wales now' nonsense up your backside

The Welsh care more about England failing than the Welsh succeeding.

Roy and Ray can motivate a team. I seem  to remember them getting a team without any stars to a European final. Roy was also successful with Switzerland. Let's keep the conversation sensible.

It's the players who can't even do the simple things, those that they do most weeks for their clubs, like pass the ball to their teammates.

I think once again we are tempted to be generous with Roy based on that sentimental belief from his Fulham days. I think the last 4 years has shown, sadly, that Roy is a one trick pony. It worked with a humble and disorganized Swiss squad but their crowning glory under Hodgson was qualifying to a World Cup/Euros  in 1994-6 based primarily in being unbeaten through draws. It worked with a humble and disorganized Fulham squad to get to the final of Europa. However many of us also remember the mind numbing games with Roy with no ideas or creativity - "how about a sub Roy?".
He was unsuccessful at Liverpool for the same reasons he was unsuccessful at England. Lacking in plan B or C and does not have the ability to inspire guys 45 years his junior.
Conte has shown what coaching and leadership is like and his Italian team of average and quite old players have responded. I think the constant selection issues - chopping and changing, no defined style, poor judgement through sticking to favorites ( Hart? Wilshere? Rooney? Lailana?) where all the evidence was that there were better options which then demotivates the others. Poor use of subs except when desperate against Wales.

Yesterday was all you ever needed to see about Hodgson's limitations as a national team coach. Rigid, complacent in his own knowledge, didnt bother scouting Iceland at all, clueless to change when obvious to everyone the system was not working, Wilshere for Dier was like for like, Vardy was wasted wide left as Sturridge was wasted wide right just so Roy's great master stroke  of playing Rooney in midfield could be continued. Kane taking corners and free kicks? Rashford did more in 6 minutes than Kane did all game...

He may be, as we all think on this Board, a really nice guy. I just think he should not have been the England coach still after the previous problems.

Should players for England need 'inspiring' to ensure they pass the ball to each other?

It was not team selection or tactics that lost the game. A pub side after a good lunch would have shown more effort.

[rubbernecca]

BTW, after all the s**t you gave us over 'one man team', you can shove your 'we can all support Wales now' nonsense up your backside

The Welsh care more about England failing than the Welsh succeeding.

Roy and Ray can motivate a team. I seem  to remember them getting a team without any stars to a European final. Roy was also successful with Switzerland. Let's keep the conversation sensible.

It's the players who can't even do the simple things, those that they do most weeks for their clubs, like pass the ball to their teammates.

I think once again we are tempted to be generous with Roy based on that sentimental belief from his Fulham days. I think the last 4 years has shown, sadly, that Roy is a one trick pony. It worked with a humble and disorganized Swiss squad but their crowning glory under Hodgson was qualifying to a World Cup/Euros  in 1994-6 based primarily in being unbeaten through draws. It worked with a humble and disorganized Fulham squad to get to the final of Europa. However many of us also remember the mind numbing games with Roy with no ideas or creativity - "how about a sub Roy?".
He was unsuccessful at Liverpool for the same reasons he was unsuccessful at England. Lacking in plan B or C and does not have the ability to inspire guys 45 years his junior.
Conte has shown what coaching and leadership is like and his Italian team of average and quite old players have responded. I think the constant selection issues - chopping and changing, no defined style, poor judgement through sticking to favorites ( Hart? Wilshere? Rooney? Lailana?) where all the evidence was that there were better options which then demotivates the others. Poor use of subs except when desperate against Wales.

Yesterday was all you ever needed to see about Hodgson's limitations as a national team coach. Rigid, complacent in his own knowledge, didnt bother scouting Iceland at all, clueless to change when obvious to everyone the system was not working, Wilshere for Dier was like for like, Vardy was wasted wide left as Sturridge was wasted wide right just so Roy's great master stroke  of playing Rooney in midfield could be continued. Kane taking corners and free kicks? Rashford did more in 6 minutes than Kane did all game...

He may be, as we all think on this Board, a really nice guy. I just think he should not have been the England coach still after the previous problems.

Should players for England need 'inspiring' to ensure they pass the ball to each other?

It was not team selection or tactics that lost the game. A pub side after a good lunch would have shown more effort.

You need a starting 11. Defined roles. Without that, there's confusion and everything just goes to pot.  The tactics, man management and team selection were terrible. Kane was visibly nervous and made to take set pieces?  WTF?!

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

BTW, after all the s**t you gave us over 'one man team', you can shove your 'we can all support Wales now' nonsense up your backside

The Welsh care more about England failing than the Welsh succeeding.

Roy and Ray can motivate a team. I seem  to remember them getting a team without any stars to a European final. Roy was also successful with Switzerland. Let's keep the conversation sensible.

It's the players who can't even do the simple things, those that they do most weeks for their clubs, like pass the ball to their teammates.

I think once again we are tempted to be generous with Roy based on that sentimental belief from his Fulham days. I think the last 4 years has shown, sadly, that Roy is a one trick pony. It worked with a humble and disorganized Swiss squad but their crowning glory under Hodgson was qualifying to a World Cup/Euros  in 1994-6 based primarily in being unbeaten through draws. It worked with a humble and disorganized Fulham squad to get to the final of Europa. However many of us also remember the mind numbing games with Roy with no ideas or creativity - "how about a sub Roy?".
He was unsuccessful at Liverpool for the same reasons he was unsuccessful at England. Lacking in plan B or C and does not have the ability to inspire guys 45 years his junior.
Conte has shown what coaching and leadership is like and his Italian team of average and quite old players have responded. I think the constant selection issues - chopping and changing, no defined style, poor judgement through sticking to favorites ( Hart? Wilshere? Rooney? Lailana?) where all the evidence was that there were better options which then demotivates the others. Poor use of subs except when desperate against Wales.

Yesterday was all you ever needed to see about Hodgson's limitations as a national team coach. Rigid, complacent in his own knowledge, didnt bother scouting Iceland at all, clueless to change when obvious to everyone the system was not working, Wilshere for Dier was like for like, Vardy was wasted wide left as Sturridge was wasted wide right just so Roy's great master stroke  of playing Rooney in midfield could be continued. Kane taking corners and free kicks? Rashford did more in 6 minutes than Kane did all game...

He may be, as we all think on this Board, a really nice guy. I just think he should not have been the England coach still after the previous problems.

Should players for England need 'inspiring' to ensure they pass the ball to each other?

It was not team selection or tactics that lost the game. A pub side after a good lunch would have shown more effort.

You need a starting 11. Defined roles. Without that, there's confusion and everything just goes to pot.  The tactics, man management and team selection were terrible. Kane was visibly nervous and made to take set pieces?  WTF?!

I think that you are being excessively generous to the players. There is no room for excuses about team selection, formation or tactics that can explain how badly they played individually and as a team.