Author Topic: How I see the squad shaping up next season  (Read 2458 times)

Offline westcliff white

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Re: How I see the squad shaping up next season
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2017, 12:04:25 PM »
In terms of budget, our last accounts (15/16) showed our revenues and wages being balanced (£36m each) but a lot of those revenues would have been the parachute payment, which we still get next season, but it will probably be lower and the difference may well eat up most our permitted losses. Maybe it will leave us with a few million and/or we've a few mil left in the bank (we did apparently bid £10m for Elrich in January after all)

We still have a lot of players to sell. I'd expect get at least £10m from player sales if we offload Jozabed, Stearman, LVC, Tunnicliffe, Woodrow, Sigurdsson and one of Button or Bettinelli.

If we need say, Kalas, Piazon, a GK, ST and 5 new squad players, you'd expect 2/3 of those to come on loan but could you get the other 6/7 on a budget of £15m? Maybe, maybe not.
Tunni out of contract so no cash there, the others quite opissibly will raise some funds.

i always thought it was 3 years going to 4 under new terms on the parachutwe payemtns but it is 4 years going to 3 for those now releaged, so that is good news. this is what I htink we get or have gotten.....

Each club is currently paid £24m in the first year back in the Championship, £19.2m in year two, £9.6m in year three and another £9.6m in the final year.

That was for the season we were relagted. Tems coming down now get more than that and over 3 years



Yes that's roughly what I was thinking... The bad news is it means the parachute for next season will be £10m less than it was in year 2 (last year's accounts) and that £10m may eat up almost all our permitted losses under FFP.

IMO 6/7 players for £10-15m isn't unreasonable. it equates to about £2m per player which is on average what we've payed in the last couple of seasons. the problem is the striker because there you're talking about £10m just for that position... 
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Offline F(f)CUK

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Re: How I see the squad shaping up next season
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2017, 04:47:00 PM »
Unfortunately people forget financial fair play when we sell players and then purchase others.  Our squad is paper thin and therefore hopefully we can afford a few salaries (which also has to be taken into account).  However, I think that we will have to sell Cairney and Sessegnon in order to make the next step forward and buy the forwards, central midfielder and central defender that we need.  It was one of the reasons that I was desperate for Fulham to win the playoffs this season.

Offline filham

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Re: How I see the squad shaping up next season
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2017, 06:20:45 PM »
Last season we sold McCormac and the income financed the purchase of almost a complete new team. Now I imagine we will have to sell again to purchase players for a few key positions that need filling. Lets hope that this is the club's philosophy, we don't need another new team but we need to build on what we have.

I don't like the way Dannyboi is prepared to accept that Cairney may have to go in order to raise the transfer money, in my mind that would be a disaster, we just wouldn't replace him and the central engine room of the team would be continually missfiring. On a smaller scale this is a re run of the threat of us losing Haynes in the sixties. It musn't be allowed to happen.

Transferring Sessegnon would be undesirable also but at least it would not have an immediate effect on next season's promotion challenge and if it would enable us to purchase a top rate striker then it is the less of the two evils.
We really must make an attempt to sort out all of our transfer moves during July we really don't want to be making expensive panic buys like Martin again after the season has started.


Offline Deeping_white

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Re: How I see the squad shaping up next season
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2017, 07:22:44 PM »
Bearing in mind that we pretty much broke even on transfers, I can't be the only one who thinks we're in a semi favorable position at the moment in that our losses would have been negligible this year, and with FFP rolling over three seasons, now gives us a chance to spend more and take a slightly larger loss to build on what is already a very capable team? If we sell a couple of the players on the peripheral and bring in a few more additions that genuinely improve the squad, we should have more than enough money to buy the few players we need to push on for automatic promotion. I know people think we were tight in January, but I think in the long run it might play more in our favour by minimizing our losses with a view to strengthening in the summer with a better idea of what we need to push on that little bit further and obtain automatic promotion.

Offline Statto

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Re: How I see the squad shaping up next season
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2017, 08:46:43 PM »
Bearing in mind that we pretty much broke even on transfers, I can't be the only one who thinks we're in a semi favorable position at the moment in that our losses would have been negligible this year, and with FFP rolling over three seasons, now gives us a chance to spend more and take a slightly larger loss to build on what is already a very capable team? If we sell a couple of the players on the peripheral and bring in a few more additions that genuinely improve the squad, we should have more than enough money to buy the few players we need to push on for automatic promotion. I know people think we were tight in January, but I think in the long run it might play more in our favour by minimizing our losses with a view to strengthening in the summer with a better idea of what we need to push on that little bit further and obtain automatic promotion.

but take parachute payments out of the equation and our revenues could be £20m less than our revenues these days, so even without buying anyone we could be making big losses

Offline dannyboi-ffc

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Re: How I see the squad shaping up next season
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2017, 09:12:25 PM »
In terms of budget, our last accounts (15/16) showed our revenues and wages being balanced (£36m each) but a lot of those revenues would have been the parachute payment, which we still get next season, but it will probably be lower and the difference may well eat up most our permitted losses. Maybe it will leave us with a few million and/or we've a few mil left in the bank (we did apparently bid £10m for Elrich in January after all)

We still have a lot of players to sell. I'd expect get at least £10m from player sales if we offload Jozabed, Stearman, LVC, Tunnicliffe, Woodrow, Sigurdsson and one of Button or Bettinelli.

If we need say, Kalas, Piazon, a GK, ST and 5 new squad players, you'd expect 2/3 of those to come on loan but could you get the other 6/7 on a budget of £15m? Maybe, maybe not.
Tunni out of contract so no cash there, the others quite opissibly will raise some funds.

i always thought it was 3 years going to 4 under new terms on the parachutwe payemtns but it is 4 years going to 3 for those now releaged, so that is good news. this is what I htink we get or have gotten.....

Each club is currently paid £24m in the first year back in the Championship, £19.2m in year two, £9.6m in year three and another £9.6m in the final year.

That was for the season we were relagted. Tems coming down now get more than that and over 3 years



Yes that's roughly what I was thinking... The bad news is it means the parachute for next season will be £10m less than it was in year 2 (last year's accounts) and that £10m may eat up almost all our permitted losses under FFP.

IMO 6/7 players for £10-15m isn't unreasonable. it equates to about £2m per player which is on average what we've payed in the last couple of seasons. the problem is the striker because there you're talking about £10m just for that position... 
My Fear also

Be creative. Tammy Abraham on loan.


Offline twang

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Re: How I see the squad shaping up next season
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2017, 09:47:54 PM »
Bettinelli - Good enough at this level and still has the potential to be better. Deserves to start the season as #1.
Fredericks - His place to lose.
NEW CB - Need a physically imposing central defender who's still decent with the ball at his feet. Probably won't come cheap.
Ream - Has won me over with his form the last couple of months. Belongs in the starting eleven if he keeps playing like that.
Malone - His place to lose.
Cairney/Jozabed - Hopefully one of them stays if the other leaves. But if both decide to leave we'll have loads of money to spend on a replacement.
McDonald - His place to lose.
Johansen - His place to lose.
Aluko - His place to lose.
NEW ST - I'm hoping for Kenneth Zohore here, exactly the type of striker we need. Will cost a lot though as he's now proven at this level.
Ayité - His place to lose.

Button - Good enough backup.
Odoi - Great squad player and not far off Fredericks either.
Sigurdsson - Would rather have Kalas here but I can't see us signing both him and a another CB for big money. Sig can still come good.
Madl - Decent enough backup.
Edun - Would be behind Sess and Odoi in the pecking order.
Adeniran - Would be behind the two below in the pecking order.
NEW DM - Need a McDonald clone here. Nir Bitton was rumoured this January and would fit the bill.
Christensen - I hope LVC is involved much more next season. We've really missed someone to rotate with in central midfield.
Kebano - Can replace either Aluko or Ayité at any time.
Woodrow - IMHO good enough to be backup at this level. But if he's deemed not to be, we'll need a another striker. Preferably a more physical one.
Sessegnon - Hopefully he'll be with us next season. But if he doesn't sign or if we get an offer we can't refuse, Piazon would be a good replacement.

So it's three main targets: a big and strong central defender, a defensive minded central midfielder and a striker with pace and power. Then it's a case of replacing/upgrading on players that are under contract and we'll receive a transfer fee for.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 09:50:02 PM by twang »

Offline Porthogs FC

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Re: How I see the squad shaping up next season
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2017, 10:22:01 PM »
First off - We need two out and out strikers. More on this later.

I'm not certain we need Piazon if we bring on two good strikers. With Sess, Kebano, Ayite and Aluko for 2 spots (I believe Sess will be moved to wide player), Piazon might be too expensive. Additionally, I think those 4 are good enough for auto promotion. And this doesn't leave room for Williams from U23 team.

If we paired those 4 with 2 strikers (is Humphreys in the running yet?) that have good speed and scoring ability, then this will already be an improvement from the beginning of last season. The majority of the team knows the brand of football needed and has been playing it well for a while.

From the centre of the field, obviously Cairney, Johansen and McDonald are good enough in combination. I would like one more well rounded player to compete directly for a starting spot (is LVC ready for this?), something we don't currently have in the first team. I think Parker and Adernian are good enough for back ups to these starters, but one more that's better than Parker would be key for any major injury. Our core of the park team are amazingly good, probably the best in the division.

Back of the park we should sign another LB to compete with Malone, as I said before I think Sess will move more into a scoring role. I think Kalas, Ream and Madl are good enough, but would rather find another CB to match with Kalas. RB is set with Odoi and Fredricks.

I think Bett's is ready to go for the full season as well. No need for major investment in G position.

So, in my opinion, here's what happens this summer. I'm not identifying names of players to bring in, just positions.

IN:
2 Strikers
1 CM to compete with Mc, Johan, Cairney
1 LB
1 starting CB
Sign Kalas permanent

OUT:
All out on loan players except possibly LVC (Woodrow, Jozabed, Tunni, Kavanagh, Grimmer, Stearman, Martin, Piazon, Cyriac, Petsos)
Sigurdson

That's 6 players to be signed to loan or permanent contracts, hopefully all of the starting or immediate backup variety, with 7/8 players sold (depending on LVC) and 4 to be returned from loan.

Team would look like:

Striker: 2 to be signed
Wingers: Aluko, Kebano, Ayite, Sess
CM: Cairney, Johansen, McDonald, LVC, 1 to be signed
LB: Malone, 1 to be signed
RB: Fredricks, Odoi
CB: Kalas (perm), Ream, Madl, 1 to be signed
G: Bett's, Button, Joronen

That's a starting roster of 22. Humphrey's, Williams, Adeniran, Davies possibly as backup to the backups from U23.

Most important signings in order - Kalas (Perm), Striker, another CB, 2nd Striker, CM, LB.

Offline Deeping_white

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Re: How I see the squad shaping up next season
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2017, 10:23:47 PM »
Bearing in mind that we pretty much broke even on transfers, I can't be the only one who thinks we're in a semi favorable position at the moment in that our losses would have been negligible this year, and with FFP rolling over three seasons, now gives us a chance to spend more and take a slightly larger loss to build on what is already a very capable team? If we sell a couple of the players on the peripheral and bring in a few more additions that genuinely improve the squad, we should have more than enough money to buy the few players we need to push on for automatic promotion. I know people think we were tight in January, but I think in the long run it might play more in our favour by minimizing our losses with a view to strengthening in the summer with a better idea of what we need to push on that little bit further and obtain automatic promotion.

but take parachute payments out of the equation and our revenues could be £20m less than our revenues these days, so even without buying anyone we could be making big losses

Don't we get another payment of £9.6m this year which is the same as last years payment though, meaning that the incomings would be the same from that standpoint?


Offline Asotosyios

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Re: How I see the squad shaping up next season
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2017, 10:34:06 PM »
Surprised people don't include a place for Jozabed. Remember he joined us having had no pre-season. With a full pre-season behind him I think he would be a very good player.

Technically I dont think their is any midfielder better than him in this league. What other midfielders from this division would play a part in the Europa league semi finals? I don't think even Cairney would. Jozabed came to us as the top scoring midfielder in a league far better than the championship!



Celta have an option to buy so they might take him back. Also if he got homesick last time, what has changed now such that the same won't happen again? If Joka wants him I wouldn't mind seeing him come back

I don't think Celta has an option to buy him and I would like to see what he can do with a full pre-season behind him.

Offline Asotosyios

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Re: How I see the squad shaping up next season
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2017, 10:47:08 PM »
It will also be interesting to see if Slavisa thinks that any young players (Adeniran, Edun, G Williams, etc) deserve more chances with the first team next year.

Offline Max Headroom

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Re: How I see the squad shaping up next season
« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2017, 10:50:47 PM »
I'm going to be controversial and say I'd like an upgrade on Aluko. Tricky runner, and creates, but misses too many, and not usually requiring the goalkeeper to move (he misses the target).

I'd happily keep him as a squad player though. On his day unplayable.


Offline dannyboi-ffc

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Re: How I see the squad shaping up next season
« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2017, 12:00:50 AM »
I'm going to be controversial and say I'd like an upgrade on Aluko. Tricky runner, and creates, but misses too many, and not usually requiring the goalkeeper to move (he misses the target).

I'd happily keep him as a squad player though. On his day unplayable.

That's what I said in the op. Not controversial at all, he misses too.many chances but is too good to let go of completely. He's a great player to have for the front 3. We probably need 5 or 6 realistically and with Aluko Kebano Ayite and Sess all we need is the two top clinical strikers

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Re: How I see the squad shaping up next season
« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2017, 08:09:13 AM »
Bettinelli - Good enough at this level and still has the potential to be better. Deserves to start the season as #1.
Fredericks - His place to lose.
NEW CB - Need a physically imposing central defender who's still decent with the ball at his feet. Probably won't come cheap.
Ream - Has won me over with his form the last couple of months. Belongs in the starting eleven if he keeps playing like that.
Malone - His place to lose.
Cairney/Jozabed - Hopefully one of them stays if the other leaves. But if both decide to leave we'll have loads of money to spend on a replacement.
McDonald - His place to lose.
Johansen - His place to lose.
Aluko - His place to lose.
NEW ST - I'm hoping for Kenneth Zohore here, exactly the type of striker we need. Will cost a lot though as he's now proven at this level.
Ayité - His place to lose.

Button - Good enough backup.
Odoi - Great squad player and not far off Fredericks either.
Sigurdsson - Would rather have Kalas here but I can't see us signing both him and a another CB for big money. Sig can still come good.
Madl - Decent enough backup.
Edun - Would be behind Sess and Odoi in the pecking order.
Adeniran - Would be behind the two below in the pecking order.
NEW DM - Need a McDonald clone here. Nir Bitton was rumoured this January and would fit the bill.
Christensen - I hope LVC is involved much more next season. We've really missed someone to rotate with in central midfield.
Kebano - Can replace either Aluko or Ayité at any time.
Woodrow - IMHO good enough to be backup at this level. But if he's deemed not to be, we'll need a another striker. Preferably a more physical one.
Sessegnon - Hopefully he'll be with us next season. But if he doesn't sign or if we get an offer we can't refuse, Piazon would be a good replacement.

So it's three main targets: a big and strong central defender, a defensive minded central midfielder and a striker with pace and power. Then it's a case of replacing/upgrading on players that are under contract and we'll receive a transfer fee for.
I wouldn't call Zohore 'proven'. He's had half a good Championship season. It's like with Hogan, Villa thought they were getting a 'proven' player but actually he's been a big flop for them.

Offline twang

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Re: How I see the squad shaping up next season
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2017, 08:22:48 AM »
I wouldn't call Zohore 'proven'. He's had half a good Championship season. It's like with Hogan, Villa thought they were getting a 'proven' player but actually he's been a big flop for them.

Or like Kodjia who's been brilliant for them. There's always an element of risk with any transfer, but this season Zohore has proven that he can be a force in this league.


Offline toshes mate

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Re: How I see the squad shaping up next season
« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2017, 08:43:37 AM »
I'm going to be controversial and say I'd like an upgrade on Aluko. Tricky runner, and creates, but misses too many, and not usually requiring the goalkeeper to move (he misses the target).

I'd happily keep him as a squad player though. On his day unplayable.

That's what I said in the op. Not controversial at all, he misses too.many chances but is too good to let go of completely. He's a great player to have for the front 3. We probably need 5 or 6 realistically and with Aluko Kebano Ayite and Sess all we need is the two top clinical strikers

But they do not need to be two TOP clinical strikers before they arrive here do they?  It's while the players are here that their performances matter and our coaching staff have proven that given the right material they can cut their cloth.   If we can shop wisely then we do not need to pay (and risk) big money on a no show martinesque type when an abrahamesque type may deliver better and with greater regard for the team and Club.  As you and Statto have already said Fulham must keep their books in good order or else we will be asking for trouble in the future. 

Offline Statto

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Re: How I see the squad shaping up next season
« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2017, 08:48:32 AM »
I wouldn't call Zohore 'proven'. He's had half a good Championship season. It's like with Hogan, Villa thought they were getting a 'proven' player but actually he's been a big flop for them.

Or like Kodjia who's been brilliant for them. There's always an element of risk with any transfer, but this season Zohore has proven that he can be a force in this league.

Agree with AlexW132. Cannot believe so many people rate Zohore after only half a good season. The best season of his career and still only 12 goals, 1 more than Chris M****n. Kodjia was much more prolific the year before Villa signed him and had been prolific in the french top flight prior to that as well.

Offline westcliff white

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Re: How I see the squad shaping up next season
« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2017, 08:54:29 AM »
I wouldn't call Zohore 'proven'. He's had half a good Championship season. It's like with Hogan, Villa thought they were getting a 'proven' player but actually he's been a big flop for them.

Or like Kodjia who's been brilliant for them. There's always an element of risk with any transfer, but this season Zohore has proven that he can be a force in this league.

Agree with AlexW132. Cannot believe so many people rate Zohore after only half a good season. The best season of his career and still only 12 goals, 1 more than Chris M****n. Kodjia was much more prolific the year before Villa signed him and had been prolific in the french top flight prior to that as well.
While I agree with you re Zhore, I am not sure that Zhore was prolific in france top flight, think he played in Ligue 2 and was loaned out to some B teams during that as well. Think he scored 30 odd in 100 odd games in Ligues 2 and below though.

Having said all of that he is a proven goalscorer in the championship over two seasons so in that contect he is far more proven than Zohore. His had an average record in scandanavia with 17 goals in 70 odd games

Offline dannyboi-ffc

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Re: How I see the squad shaping up next season
« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2017, 09:05:29 AM »
I'm going to be controversial and say I'd like an upgrade on Aluko. Tricky runner, and creates, but misses too many, and not usually requiring the goalkeeper to move (he misses the target).

I'd happily keep him as a squad player though. On his day unplayable.

That's what I said in the op. Not controversial at all, he misses too.many chances but is too good to let go of completely. He's a great player to have for the front 3. We probably need 5 or 6 realistically and with Aluko Kebano Ayite and Sess all we need is the two top clinical strikers

But they do not need to be two TOP clinical strikers before they arrive here do they?  It's while the players are here that their performances matter and our coaching staff have proven that given the right material they can cut their cloth.   If we can shop wisely then we do not need to pay (and risk) big money on a no show martinesque type when an abrahamesque type may deliver better and with greater regard for the team and Club.  As you and Statto have already said Fulham must keep their books in good order or else we will be asking for trouble in the future. 

Don't read too much into the top bit. I'm not saying I expect to sign two strikers that are going to cost a total of 20million. I just feel the attribute, stats and potential we need to be focusing on most when considering strikers is their ability to score.

I'd be happy with Tammy Abraham on loan and Gary Hooper for 5/6 million.

Offline twang

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Re: How I see the squad shaping up next season
« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2017, 09:33:27 AM »
I wouldn't call Zohore 'proven'. He's had half a good Championship season. It's like with Hogan, Villa thought they were getting a 'proven' player but actually he's been a big flop for them.

Or like Kodjia who's been brilliant for them. There's always an element of risk with any transfer, but this season Zohore has proven that he can be a force in this league.

Agree with AlexW132. Cannot believe so many people rate Zohore after only half a good season. The best season of his career and still only 12 goals, 1 more than Chris M****n. Kodjia was much more prolific the year before Villa signed him and had been prolific in the french top flight prior to that as well.

Kodjia 15/16: 45 appearances, 18 goals, 3 assists. Minutes per goal: 195. Minutes per point: 167.
Zohore 16/17: 29 appearances, 12 goals, 5 assists. Minutes per goal: 187. Minutes per point: 132.

And Kodjia was prolific in Ligue 2 before his move to Bristol City, not Ligue 1.