Fulham's transfer dealings and D Rolan

[FulhamStu]

I have up till now kept my powder dry on the Rolan saga but will share some views, however I really want to talk about our transfer policy and style.  This is not added to the silly season thread as it's a general point about how Fulham go about their transfer business.

In general, Fulham keep transfer speculation to a minimum.  We often do not hear about transfers until very close to their completion and Fulham have previously kept cards close to their chest.  This summer however we have heard many many rumours, I suspect increasingly so due to the power of social media.  Whether it's agents, selling clubs, players themselves or just WUMs many potential situations are being discussed, some will no doubt have substance and some will not.

One thing that seems to be a reoccurring theme is when a saga such as the potential Rolan transfer goes on the way this one has, as it's as long a drawn out affair as I can remember, the outcome is normally that nothing happens.  It would appear regarding Mr Rolan, he is looking to play his football in a top division and not the Championship.  Fulham have clearly done a good job, probably offered him very good money, have sold the club and its ambitions and Rolan is tempted.  However, he would prefer a move to the Premiership and is hoping someone else will come in for him.  This is not a good way to start his relationship with the club and fans.  It seems he would be a very good buy financially and I suspect Slav is very keen to get him, however I am not sure his attitude of potentially I am bigger than you is one we should entertain.

One thing we know is that our need for strikers is critical to a successful promotion push.  We must have plenty of other targets so why keep waiting for Rolan to make his mind up. Get at least one other in now.  Have others ready in case Rolan does not happen and if we get him late in the day for a bargain price all the better.

Kalas is interesting and we will obviously not pay what the Filth are asking.  If that is so, move on, find someone else and get it done.

We seem to prevaricate too much, we miss out because we want a bargain.  When we are prepared to pay, we miss out because we take too long.

McDonald eventually came and was massive last season but we took how many transfer windows to get him ?  We did some great business last summer but this summer we are repeating the errors from the winter window.

It could all still turn out brilliantly but at the moment us fans are getting very frustrated, Fulham are potentially being too cautious and this could cost us big time.  Time for Khan Junior to come of age and deliver, time waits for nobody.

[Lighthouse]

We don't know all the ins and outs of what ever is going on. But I do agree with you. Especially as we are looking for the same type of players we needed in January. Well last Summer actually but not all the players we brought in proved good enough. But by January we certainly knew we needed a centre half and forward minimum.

[westcliff white]

I tend to agree with most of your sentiments.

I think we are not as cloak and dagger as we used to be though, last summer there were rumours re Ayite, Button, Siggirdson, KMAC and Martin from the top of my mind, of course it may not be from our side. I think we are as careful as we can be, but those clubs we do business with may not be so careful, and that is where the rumours start.

[Andy S]

There is nothing to disagree with here. It has probably always been so

[colinwhite]

Good post Stu !I Think you sensibly echo the frustration that we are all feeling. I do believe that we will get it right ,but no player should come to us as purely a stepping stone , thinking we are a last resort. At the same time we have to be realisic.t

[FulhamStu]

Agree with all the OP

I accept that on the whole our transfer business has been reasonably good in the last year or so, B+ you might say, and I like that we're (generally) discreet in our business...

However I do wonder, as I've said before, whether our money man/men (presumably Mackintosh) really appreciate the bigger economic picture. We seem content for transfers to drag on until 5 games into the season or even (eg with McDonald, as you say) until the following year, just to save £500k or £1m or some other sum which, in the context of a £100m+ prize for promotion, really doesn't justify the delay

I also agree with this view about the money side of things well put by Statto.

Mackintosh has kept his job, on top money for a long time now, he is a nice bloke, I have met him and I am sure he has the clubs best interest at heart.  I believe however he carries out his instruction to maintain 'sustainability' a strategy from SKhan that is suggesting that dispite his words of 'whatever it takes' keeping the club living within its means is SKhans priority.

SKhan is clearly unwilling to splash the cash Alfayed style.  He chooses instead to accept Championship football rather that risk failing to get promotion having thrown big money at the job in hand.  SKhan has the wealth to go for it, but like many rich businessmen is not prepared to give it away easily.   I personally think he will invest in the club, invest eventually in ground improvements but not on overpaid, overhyped, footballers and their agents.   I had hoped he would be a bit more adventurous this summer given his son is the man in the hot seat and thought he would give him a big budget, all the current evidence is however that he is not going to do this and continue his prudent approach.

[westcliff white]

Agree with all the OP

I accept that on the whole our transfer business has been reasonably good in the last year or so, B+ you might say, and I like that we're (generally) discreet in our business...

However I do wonder, as I've said before, whether our money man/men (presumably Mackintosh) really appreciate the bigger economic picture. We seem content for transfers to drag on until 5 games into the season or even (eg with McDonald, as you say) until the following year, just to save £500k or £1m or some other sum which, in the context of a £100m+ prize for promotion, really doesn't justify the delay

I also agree with this view about the money side of things well put by Statto.

Mackintosh has kept his job, on top money for a long time now, he is a nice bloke, I have met him and I am sure he has the clubs best interest at heart.  I believe however he carries out his instruction to maintain 'sustainability' a strategy from SKhan that is suggesting that dispite his words of 'whatever it takes' keeping the club living within its means is SKhans priority.

SKhan is clearly unwilling to splash the cash Alfayed style.  He chooses instead to accept Championship football rather that risk failing to get promotion having thrown big money at the job in hand.  SKhan has the wealth to go for it, but like many rich businessmen is not prepared to give it away easily.   I personally think he will invest in the club, invest eventually in ground improvements but not on overpaid, overhyped, footballers and their agents.   I had hoped he would be a bit more adventurous this summer given his son is the man in the hot seat and thought he would give him a big budget, all the current evidence is however that he is not going to do this and continue his prudent approach.

There are a lot of dfferencies on Finances now to when Al Fayed took over.

FFP limits us to a degree, in fact we breached it even with Parachute payments. Owners now cannot (certainly in the championship) just pump money into the club as it isnt allowed under FFP, if they do and they do not achieve their goal (as in promotion) then severe sanctions can follow, so prudency is required as well. Although personally i think the FFP rules are unenforcable until QPR have been nought to task otherwis no one is on the same field, we still have to be careful. We simply do not generate income like some other clubs so that restricts us as well.

But overall all good comments, one of the best OP's ive read in a while

[FulhamStu]

Agree with all the OP

I accept that on the whole our transfer business has been reasonably good in the last year or so, B+ you might say, and I like that we're (generally) discreet in our business...

However I do wonder, as I've said before, whether our money man/men (presumably Mackintosh) really appreciate the bigger economic picture. We seem content for transfers to drag on until 5 games into the season or even (eg with McDonald, as you say) until the following year, just to save £500k or £1m or some other sum which, in the context of a £100m+ prize for promotion, really doesn't justify the delay

I also agree with this view about the money side of things well put by Statto.

Mackintosh has kept his job, on top money for a long time now, he is a nice bloke, I have met him and I am sure he has the clubs best interest at heart.  I believe however he carries out his instruction to maintain 'sustainability' a strategy from SKhan that is suggesting that dispite his words of 'whatever it takes' keeping the club living within its means is SKhans priority.

SKhan is clearly unwilling to splash the cash Alfayed style.  He chooses instead to accept Championship football rather that risk failing to get promotion having thrown big money at the job in hand.  SKhan has the wealth to go for it, but like many rich businessmen is not prepared to give it away easily.   I personally think he will invest in the club, invest eventually in ground improvements but not on overpaid, overhyped, footballers and their agents.   I had hoped he would be a bit more adventurous this summer given his son is the man in the hot seat and thought he would give him a big budget, all the current evidence is however that he is not going to do this and continue his prudent approach.

There are a lot of dfferencies on Finances now to when Al Fayed took over.

FFP limits us to a degree, in fact we breached it even with Parachute payments. Owners now cannot (certainly in the championship) just pump money into the club as it isnt allowed under FFP, if they do and they do not achieve their goal (as in promotion) then severe sanctions can follow, so prudency is required as well. Although personally i think the FFP rules are unenforcable until QPR have been nought to task otherwis no one is on the same field, we still have to be careful. We simply do not generate income like some other clubs so that restricts us as well.

But overall all good comments, one of the best OP's ive read in a while

Thanks WW, I know the board did discuss whether it was worth saying bugger FFP and just go for it, the decision being to stay within the rules and of course your correct re Alfayed days to now.   I will say that with the new 3 year rule, we could surely push the boat out more than we have done recently and re income streams, this is one reason why I want a newly developed Riverside, in order to push those revenue streams up.  Again the club are dragging their feet on this, it is similar to our transfer dealings in some ways.  Hopefully it will eventually happen but we are not very dynamic in getting on with it are we.

[westcliff white]

Agree with all the OP

I accept that on the whole our transfer business has been reasonably good in the last year or so, B+ you might say, and I like that we're (generally) discreet in our business...

However I do wonder, as I've said before, whether our money man/men (presumably Mackintosh) really appreciate the bigger economic picture. We seem content for transfers to drag on until 5 games into the season or even (eg with McDonald, as you say) until the following year, just to save £500k or £1m or some other sum which, in the context of a £100m+ prize for promotion, really doesn't justify the delay

I also agree with this view about the money side of things well put by Statto.

Mackintosh has kept his job, on top money for a long time now, he is a nice bloke, I have met him and I am sure he has the clubs best interest at heart.  I believe however he carries out his instruction to maintain 'sustainability' a strategy from SKhan that is suggesting that dispite his words of 'whatever it takes' keeping the club living within its means is SKhans priority.

SKhan is clearly unwilling to splash the cash Alfayed style.  He chooses instead to accept Championship football rather that risk failing to get promotion having thrown big money at the job in hand.  SKhan has the wealth to go for it, but like many rich businessmen is not prepared to give it away easily.   I personally think he will invest in the club, invest eventually in ground improvements but not on overpaid, overhyped, footballers and their agents.   I had hoped he would be a bit more adventurous this summer given his son is the man in the hot seat and thought he would give him a big budget, all the current evidence is however that he is not going to do this and continue his prudent approach.

There are a lot of dfferencies on Finances now to when Al Fayed took over.

FFP limits us to a degree, in fact we breached it even with Parachute payments. Owners now cannot (certainly in the championship) just pump money into the club as it isnt allowed under FFP, if they do and they do not achieve their goal (as in promotion) then severe sanctions can follow, so prudency is required as well. Although personally i think the FFP rules are unenforcable until QPR have been nought to task otherwis no one is on the same field, we still have to be careful. We simply do not generate income like some other clubs so that restricts us as well.

But overall all good comments, one of the best OP's ive read in a while

Thanks WW, I know the board did discuss whether it was worth saying bugger FFP and just go for it, the decision being to stay within the rules and of course your correct re Alfayed days to now.   I will say that with the new 3 year rule, we could surely push the boat out more than we have done recently and re income streams, this is one reason why I want a newly developed Riverside, in order to push those revenue streams up.  Again the club are dragging their feet on this, it is similar to our transfer dealings in some ways.  Hopefully it will eventually happen but we are not very dynamic in getting on with it are we.

yes the 3 year rule does help, but this year as I understand also takes into account he past 2 years where we were very tight on the old FFP rules so we may be tight again if that makes sense.

[JackHFFC1990]

I like the targets we are trying to get in the likes of Rolan it shows the club's ambitions but with only 3 weeks until the start of the season we really need to step it up & get 1 or 2 deals over the line this week

[AlexW132]

Agree with all the OP

I accept that on the whole our transfer business has been reasonably good in the last year or so, B+ you might say, and I like that we're (generally) discreet in our business...

However I do wonder, as I've said before, whether our money man/men (presumably Mackintosh) really appreciate the bigger economic picture. We seem content for transfers to drag on until 5 games into the season or even (eg with McDonald, as you say) until the following year, just to save £500k or £1m or some other sum which, in the context of a £100m+ prize for promotion, really doesn't justify the delay

I also agree with this view about the money side of things well put by Statto.

Mackintosh has kept his job, on top money for a long time now, he is a nice bloke, I have met him and I am sure he has the clubs best interest at heart.  I believe however he carries out his instruction to maintain 'sustainability' a strategy from SKhan that is suggesting that dispite his words of 'whatever it takes' keeping the club living within its means is SKhans priority.

SKhan is clearly unwilling to splash the cash Alfayed style.  He chooses instead to accept Championship football rather that risk failing to get promotion having thrown big money at the job in hand.  SKhan has the wealth to go for it, but like many rich businessmen is not prepared to give it away easily.   I personally think he will invest in the club, invest eventually in ground improvements but not on overpaid, overhyped, footballers and their agents.   I had hoped he would be a bit more adventurous this summer given his son is the man in the hot seat and thought he would give him a big budget, all the current evidence is however that he is not going to do this and continue his prudent approach.

There are a lot of dfferencies on Finances now to when Al Fayed took over.

FFP limits us to a degree, in fact we breached it even with Parachute payments. Owners now cannot (certainly in the championship) just pump money into the club as it isnt allowed under FFP, if they do and they do not achieve their goal (as in promotion) then severe sanctions can follow, so prudency is required as well. Although personally i think the FFP rules are unenforcable until QPR have been nought to task otherwis no one is on the same field, we still have to be careful. We simply do not generate income like some other clubs so that restricts us as well.

But overall all good comments, one of the best OP's ive read in a while

Thanks WW, I know the board did discuss whether it was worth saying bugger FFP and just go for it, the decision being to stay within the rules and of course your correct re Alfayed days to now.   I will say that with the new 3 year rule, we could surely push the boat out more than we have done recently and re income streams, this is one reason why I want a newly developed Riverside, in order to push those revenue streams up.  Again the club are dragging their feet on this, it is similar to our transfer dealings in some ways.  Hopefully it will eventually happen but we are not very dynamic in getting on with it are we.

I think it's very important that the club does not say bugger FFP and throw stupid money around. I agree that we need to be more proactive in the market right now but that doesn't necessarily mean spending ridiculous amounts on individual players. If I was a Wolves fan, I'd be very worried right now. They have just signed Ruben Neves for £15m which is a ridiculous amount of money for this league, especially considering they don't receive parachute payments anymore, and that they were spending large on players like Cavaleiro and Helder Costa last year. If they go up, no problem, they'll get the TV money and it'll all be worth it. If they do not, and I personally don't think they will, then they could get into serious financial difficulties, which as we've seen with Portsmouth always ends badly. So it's a massive risk they're taking and honestly I'd rather we didn't.

[bill taylors apprentice]

The OP hits the spot in so many ways and in general chimes with the views of most of us.

Considering what the clubs been through and how we fans feel about it I'm sure there would be concern if we started throwing money around like some teams do but that's not what we are asking for.

We all understand the in and outs of negotiations and sometimes ambitious targets are going to fail etc etc but there's a trend regarding ineffective and last minute desperate signings whichever way you want to slice it!

Being prudent with fee's, salary's etc is not a problem but there a perception (real or otherwise) of losing players who will improve us for the sake of a few bob when you look at the big picture!

[VicHalomsLovechild]

"SKhan is clearly unwilling to splash the cash Alfayed style.  He chooses instead to accept Championship football rather that risk failing to get promotion having thrown big money at the job in hand.  SKhan has the wealth to go for it, but like many rich businessmen is not prepared to give it away easily.   I personally think he will invest in the club, invest eventually in ground improvements but not on overpaid, overhyped, footballers and their agents.   I had hoped he would be a bit more adventurous this summer given his son is the man in the hot seat and thought he would give him a big budget, all the current evidence is however that he is not going to do this and continue his prudent approach."
[/quote]

I think it a little unfair to compare the current chairman with the previous one. The rules where different for a start. Money didn't always flow (particularly in the later years of his reign). Our transfer record wasn't always brilliant either. Currently we have one of the best managers we've ever had. Two of our prized assets have signed new contracts, when most of us expected at least one of them to go. The England under 19 European Cup Winners, had two Fulham players in the starting 11. Only Chelsea bettered that with three and Man City matched it. Additional land has been brought next to Motspur Park. Isn't all of that true investment in a Club?
For a Club of our size and spending power isn't a substainable future a better one? at least it'll mean we'll have a team and a ground to watch.
With regard to Rolan transfer the Club are stuck between a rock and a hard place. If the Club walk away from it,  then they'll be accused of lacking ambition. It they stick and land the fella and he turns out as useful as the Derby player, they'll be blamed for wasting money! 

[Nero]

"SKhan is clearly unwilling to splash the cash Alfayed style.  He chooses instead to accept Championship football rather that risk failing to get promotion having thrown big money at the job in hand.  SKhan has the wealth to go for it, but like many rich businessmen is not prepared to give it away easily.   I personally think he will invest in the club, invest eventually in ground improvements but not on overpaid, overhyped, footballers and their agents.   I had hoped he would be a bit more adventurous this summer given his son is the man in the hot seat and thought he would give him a big budget, all the current evidence is however that he is not going to do this and continue his prudent approach."

[/color]

I think it a little unfair to compare the current chairman with the previous one. The rules where different for a start. Money didn't always flow (particularly in the later years of his reign). Our transfer record wasn't always brilliant either. Currently we have one of the best managers we've ever had. Two of our prized assets have signed new contracts, when most of us expected at least one of them to go. The England under 19 European Cup Winners, had two Fulham players in the starting 11. Only Chelsea bettered that with three and Man City matched it. Additional land has been brought next to Motspur Park. Isn't all of that true investment in a Club?
For a Club of our size and spending power isn't a substainable future a better one? at least it'll mean we'll have a team and a ground to watch.
With regard to Rolan transfer the Club are stuck between a rock and a hard place. If the Club walk away from it,  then they'll be accused of lacking ambition. It they stick and land the fella and he turns out as useful as the Derby player, they'll be blamed for wasting money! 

[/quote]

Added to that he upgraded the training ground with new pitches and also brought the old BBC sports ground, hes hardly not investing in the club. We could get a manger like Redknapp in buy anything that moves and give it large wages and leave the club in ruin. Tend to think people just remember the good points about Al Fayed he was the one that started the run the club sustainably and that how he sold it to Khan I don't think things would be that much different under him now days.

[Baszab]

It's bleeding obvious that the transfer policy has been successful recently - what we're all complaining about is that there wasn't any effort to kick on to replace Martin and Kalas when it seemed so apparent they had gone months ago - why take the risk that a successful team might unravel when we were so close to success ?

Unless of course none of us on this board know anything about the real plans so best to shut up then

[FulhamStu]

"SKhan is clearly unwilling to splash the cash Alfayed style.  He chooses instead to accept Championship football rather that risk failing to get promotion having thrown big money at the job in hand.  SKhan has the wealth to go for it, but like many rich businessmen is not prepared to give it away easily.   I personally think he will invest in the club, invest eventually in ground improvements but not on overpaid, overhyped, footballers and their agents.   I had hoped he would be a bit more adventurous this summer given his son is the man in the hot seat and thought he would give him a big budget, all the current evidence is however that he is not going to do this and continue his prudent approach."

[/color]

I think it a little unfair to compare the current chairman with the previous one. The rules where different for a start. Money didn't always flow (particularly in the later years of his reign). Our transfer record wasn't always brilliant either. Currently we have one of the best managers we've ever had. Two of our prized assets have signed new contracts, when most of us expected at least one of them to go. The England under 19 European Cup Winners, had two Fulham players in the starting 11. Only Chelsea bettered that with three and Man City matched it. Additional land has been brought next to Motspur Park. Isn't all of that true investment in a Club?
For a Club of our size and spending power isn't a substainable future a better one? at least it'll mean we'll have a team and a ground to watch.
With regard to Rolan transfer the Club are stuck between a rock and a hard place. If the Club walk away from it,  then they'll be accused of lacking ambition. It they stick and land the fella and he turns out as useful as the Derby player, they'll be blamed for wasting money! 

Added to that he upgraded the training ground with new pitches and also brought the old BBC sports ground, hes hardly not investing in the club. We could get a manger like Redknapp in buy anything that moves and give it large wages and leave the club in ruin. Tend to think people just remember the good points about Al Fayed he was the one that started the run the club sustainably and that how he sold it to Khan I don't think things would be that much different under him now days.
[/quote]

Agree with a lot of that. Should have made the distinction that Alfayed did what he did to win promotion.  Agree in later years the money dried up and we all know what happened as a result of that !