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Wigan looking for new Owners- A Fans few

Started by MJG, October 17, 2017, 07:05:36 AM

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MJG

Given the wish of many to change owners on here I thought this would be a good read.
Written by a Wigan fan yesterday as he reflects on them looking for new owners and the what a good or a bad thing that is, and why they should be grateful for their current owner.


Chinese Whispers – The Pie at Night

It's all going a little bit too well at the minute down at the DW. Almost too well, and it's easy to take your eye off the future when you're having such a good time at the present.

There's no smoke without fire as they say and ever since Garry Cook was appointed in the summer on a non-exec basis, it has looked increasingly likely that the Whelan dynasty could be coming to an end at Wigan Athletic. We can only hope our future owners are more Sheikh Mansour, less Thaksin Shinawatra.

This is the problem isn't it? There are good owners out there but there are also bad ones. Apart from a small vocal online minority who insist that Whelan has trousered millions from Wigan Athletic, I'd say there is a pretty strong consensus that our current owners are good owners.

Yes, there was appointing Maurice Lindsay to the board, putting matchday tickets up to £35, giving Blackburn Rovers fans a free pie and that whole Mackay / racism business but apart from that, we have had one of the best owners anyone could ever have and been on the sort of journey this past 20 years that no club of our size could ever dream of.

We have heard for a number of years that Whelan has been privately looking to sell up and the appointment of Garry Cook perhaps only served to escalate that ambition. Yet this prospect has been met with a mixed reaction amongst Latics supporters.

There seems to be some that are delighted with the news: it's been clear that we don't raise the level of income to compete at Championship level, nor does Whelan himself hint at another round of investment of his own – and why should he, he must have put £100m in for the last 20 years and as with most things – as time passes, you generally get less for more.

The other response is a much more cautionary one, perhaps one which I subscribe to. We're in a good place right now, by that I don't necessarily mean League One. We are top of the league, winning games, we've got a great manager, playing good football and the fans all have a smile on our faces. Dave Whelan is still our financial guarantor but the solid footing we are now under is much due to the credit of Messrs Sharpe and Jackson, and all three of these men are fervent supporters of Wigan Athletic.

So we know that Whelan doesn't want to keep putting in, after all he's in his 80's but I suppose some of us are even asking, even if someone else does – do we want to be that club again? To put it harshly (as many other fans' would) a sugar daddy's plaything. For all the good times we had, the Premier League is an obscene bloated cesspit of money set aside a circus of hype and sycophancy.

Can't we just enjoy being a (near) self-sufficient club for a while watching a young team develop and flourish? We might start struggling again next year if we do get promoted but we have a solid, honest base – players we generally like and appreciate and do not earn a salary that is completely beyond our comprehension.

Do we really want to send them on their way in favour of spending tens of millions of pounds of overpaid mercenaries from here, there and everywhere to become a top Championship side? Then if that pays off, spend tens of millions more just to compete in the Premier League. It's sacrilege to say it, and I speak as a massive fan of Roberto Martinez and the FA Cup winning squad he assembled but neither he, nor his squad hung around for long once relegation kicked in.

As a League One team, we are actually in a position where we can offer players new contracts and they want to sign them rather than getting a flat refusal because Sunderland have offered them an extra thirty grand a week. Kids can get their names put on shirts without fear of their favourites getting flogged to the first bidder in January.

Do we really want to trade this fine, developing team and a sustainable future for a few more years of millions-splurging madness?

Well, it appears that we do.

Oh and by the way, that only happens if we get a good one. If we get a bad one, then literally anything can happen and you don't need me to spell out what the worst that can happen is.

I suppose we need to ask why a Chinese consortium would want to invest in little old Wigan Athletic. Why us? There are much bigger clubs that are much further up the pecking order than us. Big city clubs in the Championship whose residents would jump on the bandwagon of the prospect of investment. Of course, many of them have already had it and it's as hit and miss as it comes.

If you're lucky you just have the threat of a change in identity to cope with (Hull, Cardiff). If you're unlucky, you could have all manner of foreign charlatans darkening your door (Birmingham, Leeds). Not that local, home grown chairmen are any better than our own Dave Whelan as Bolton and Blackpool have found out to their cost.

My personal wish, if we assume that this is going ahead, is that any changes are minimal and we can carry on just as we are because we are in a good place right now. If you read the club's accounts, you will know that the only reason our club is a going concern is because all its debts are personally guaranteed and secured by Dave Whelan.

It's a scary prospect but if someone else wants to come in and honour that guarantee then at least we know we will have a football club to support. Taking it out of the Whelan's hands is a big unknown prospect however, and who knows what motives any new owners will have.

It is very difficult to monetise the club based on our attendances, ticket pricing, commercial revenue and merchandising. We're great at raising money in the transfer market but selling our assets inevitably weakens us. The main concern is that we can only pull in 8,000 fans at the minute and if they don't come now when we're top of the league playing great football when will they come?

Last year in the Championship we barely mustered up 10,000 home fans despite cheap as chips season tickets, so you could suggest that even if we went up to the Premier League again one day, we wouldn't get anywhere close to the 15,000 home fans we managed last time let alone the 20,000+ who were there in our inaugural season, many of whom were purely there out of novelty.

Whereas having thousands of empty seats is par for the course in the Championship or League One, in the "Best League in the World", it is pure reputational suicide.

So what is the attraction on pumping money into a club like ours with no guaranteed return?

Is it even possibly to pump money into the club anymore with the new Financial Fair Play regulations unless you have some convoluted group structure and an army of clever accountants a la PSG or Man City investing money here, there and everywhere else it's permitted to manufacture revenue to spend on the pitch?

I have more questions than answers I'm afraid and I just hope that the club is open, honest and accountable to what is going on at every step of the process (and remember all we have to go off so far is a Sun journalist)

There is uncertainty already and the club has done a fantastic job since the Mackay episode to reconnect with the fans. Knowing that the people in charge of the club are actually fans always gives the majority of us fans some level of comfort that it is in good hands without the need to challenge them.

That could all change in the future and there are countless stories up and down the country of delinquent owners coming in and ruining once proud football clubs and you don't even have to move out of Lancashire to find three of the worst examples.

All these clubs' fans have quickly galvanised under the banner of protest groups and fans' trusts. All of them waited till the s**t hit the fan until that happened and the one thing that I've learnt from independent fans' groups from Barnsley to Coventry is that you should mobilise while the sun is shining and not wait till the turbulence comes. But most football fans don't think like that.

Personally, I've been involved with attempted set ups of fans' trust at Wigan on three occasions now and I very much doubt there will be a fourth given the abuse and sly tricks aimed in our direction.

We are not a sturdy football club with decades of top flight history or a large captive fan base to call upon. Even a large proportion of the town prefers to support someone else and many rugby fans have been only to keen to express their delight if we were to ever go bust.

I reserve the right to express my opinion on this and raise concerns however as someone who has operated with fanzines and independent writing for nearly 30 odd years, but as I say, actually doing anything about it is futile.

But trust me when I say that appointing an owner of a football club is a thousand times more critical than appointing a manager or anyone else for that matter, so if you're not concerned about these latest developments, then you should be.

In spite of all this, concern is all we can be as we are pretty powerless to do anything about it. As fans, we are of meagre financial means when compared to Dave Whelan and mysterious consortiums (or should that be consortia?)

There have been some interesting departures over the past few months including Ed Jones and Ian Laithwaite, both good fellas and by all accounts, unfortunate casualties of a football club needing to trim its cloth accordingly. Yet maintaining Jonathan Jackson and David Sharpe will be essential to good governance if a takeover does materialise.

For all Dave Whelan has done for Wigan Athletic, his track record after leaving other businesses and rugby club isn't exactly the best and despite the sneery comments online about his tender years, David Sharpe has been a fantastic chairman for Latics.

We are also highly reliant on the Football League's fit and proper test being er, fit and proper for any incoming owners but without knowing what their objectives are, it is impossible to determine whether this could be a great takeover or not.

And even good intentions don't always work out. I'm fairly sure it wasn't League One that the Venky's were referring to when they talked of making Blackburn Rovers a "top five" club.

I've always maintained that following Wigan Athletic has been a journey of incredible highs and lows and the main thing for me is that the journey never comes to an end given the adversity we face in our town and elsewhere.

We have done terrifically well so far, but these are daunting and fascinating times. Sit back and watch it unfold and here's hoping that the next chapter is a good one.

Jimmy

http://thepieatnight.co.uk/2017/10/16/chinese-whispers/
Just the views of a long term fan

snarks

Interesting article, with which I agree. Also given mike Ashley's decision to sell as he can't afford to invest 200 - 300 million which he thinks the club needs to compete again, makes me think that our coherent owner is a good one. Whilst his track record has not pleased everyone (to say the least) it does make you realise he hasn't been bad either.

ScalleysDad

I do like a well written point of view. The succinct overview of the Premiership is sadly spot on in my opinion and after circumstances beyond my control had me in front of the 'in laws' tele for the Liverpool and last nights games is it really all that?
Khan seems to have a lot of good intentions but I do understand why some remain suspicious.
Good luck to Wigans chosen few.


mrmicawbers


King_Crud

Quote from: Statto on October 17, 2017, 08:36:50 AM
Typical grim northerners. "Let's not bother getting promoted because we're only a little club." Fact is it takes decades to grow a fanbase. Ours was probably smaller than theirs when we got promoted from League 2 together (we got 5k for the opening game of that season) and we were regularly getting about 25k after 13 yrs in the PL. Had we stayed up and developed the Riverside we'd be getting 30k now... and maybe 40k+, something comparable to Chelsea by about 2030.

A tree should grow as tall as it can.

Fulham can increase crowds because we're a London team: plenty of blow ins and tourists when the team does well. Wigan play in Wigan, there's a lot of limitations.

Burt

Quote from: Statto on October 17, 2017, 08:36:50 AM
Typical grim northerners. "Let's not bother getting promoted because we're only a little club." Fact is it takes decades to grow a fanbase. Ours was probably smaller than theirs when we got promoted from League 2 together (we got 5k for the opening game of that season) and we were regularly getting about 25k after 13 yrs in the PL. Had we stayed up and developed the Riverside we'd be getting 30k now... and maybe 40k+, something comparable to Chelsea by about 2030.

A tree should grow as tall as it can.

Not sure what "northern" has to do with anything but in 1996/7 our average attendance was 6,644 compared to their 3,899.


MJG

Quote from: Statto on October 17, 2017, 04:56:18 PM
Quote from: King_Crud on October 17, 2017, 11:34:06 AM
Quote from: Statto on October 17, 2017, 08:36:50 AM
Typical grim northerners. "Let's not bother getting promoted because we're only a little club." Fact is it takes decades to grow a fanbase. Ours was probably smaller than theirs when we got promoted from League 2 together (we got 5k for the opening game of that season) and we were regularly getting about 25k after 13 yrs in the PL. Had we stayed up and developed the Riverside we'd be getting 30k now... and maybe 40k+, something comparable to Chelsea by about 2030.

A tree should grow as tall as it can.

Fulham can increase crowds because we're a London team: plenty of blow ins and tourists when the team does well. Wigan play in Wigan, there's a lot of limitations.

That did cross my mind. But then we have to share London with lots of other teams, and Wigan are also next to Manchester and Lancashire, areas where football is much more popular than it is in London.

If they really don't have that capacity for growth and therefore don't want to get into the PL, their existence is totally pointless as far as I can tell, so they may as well do everyone a favour, fold and give their space in the football league to a little London club like Tooting and Mitcham.
think your being harsh on his views. They chased the dream and one concern he had is no club if they go for that again.

I thought I'd post this more about the uncertainty a potential new owner brings and also I do think he's quite realistic about Wigan.

Just the views of a long term fan

Holders

I think that they've done remarkably well. It's not so long ago that they first entered the FL. At the time they worried about how they'd get crowds, given that it's such a  strong Rugby League area but they did - maybe they played home and away with the RL team. Then they got into the PL - who'd ever have thought that was possible? I wish them well.
Non sumus statione ferriviaria

dhowells21

Quote from: Statto on October 17, 2017, 04:56:18 PM
That did cross my mind. But then we have to share London with lots of other teams, and Wigan are also next to Manchester and Lancashire, areas where football is much more popular than it is in London.

According to the 2011 census, Lancashire has a population of 1.5mln compared to London's 8.7mln.
In the FL at the moment in Lancashire area you have Accrington, Blackburn, Blackpool, Bolton, Burnley, Bury, Crewe, Fleetwood, City, United, Oldham, PNE, Rochdale & Wigan (Could also include the Liverpool clubs, Port Vale & Stoke if you want also).
Compared to Londons: Wimbledon, Arsenal, Barnet, Brentford, Charlton, Chelsea, Palace, Fulham, Millwall, QPR, Spurs, Watford, West Ham (Orient & Daggers could also be included).

A much smaller population, in a much less touristy area, spread across more clubs. I think you've over simplified it.


Woolly Mammoth

Quote from: Holders on October 18, 2017, 09:37:38 AM
I think that they've done remarkably well. It's not so long ago that they first entered the FL. At the time they worried about how they'd get crowds, given that it's such a  strong Rugby League area but they did - maybe they played home and away with the RL team. Then they got into the PL - who'd ever have thought that was possible? I wish them well.

and they won the FA Cup, which is something I would like to see Fulham achieve before I go 6 feet under.
Its not the man in the fight, it's the fight in the man.  🐘

Never forget your Roots.