Recruitment policy at Fulham

[FulhamStu]

We lose a game and it's all the fault of Stats man.   Slav has has no say in recruitment and the yanks know nothing about football.  We should never have sold Aluko. These lines are trotted out after every defeat.

Can I suggest it's not as simple as that.  Signing a good striker is a priority for most clubs, scoring goals is the hardest part of the game and why goal scorers are at a premium.  What goes on behind the scenes we don't know however in the past few years we have tried to sign players like Mourne, Gayle, Huggill and others who would have been ideal.  Surely this suggests our recruitment team know what they are doing, however getting these signings over the line is hard.  It's hard to attract top strikers into tier 2 football, we will have to work within a budget not only for transfer fees but salaries of players.

I simply refuse to believe Slav has no say in who we buy.  He may not be the final decision maker but pretty much all the players bough in have similar characteristics.  Technical ability, athletic, etc.  Kamara probably the exception, however I suspect we see him as work in progress, someone with raw abilities who we can coach into a more technical player.

My issue with our recruitment is we lack a certain type.  Someone with presence, height and airiel ability.  This is why KMac is so important.   The reason we are impotent at corners is nobody has the physical attributes to attack and win the header.  I suspect Slav does not want a Flint type central defender as he feels he needs these players to start our attacks and wants players who are good on the ball in tight positions.  This however in my opinion leads us to being one dimensional, great on the eye but with limited options.

Is this down to Stats man, I very much doubt it.  I would love to have a one on one with Slav and put these points to him.  Yes, he wants better players and I suspect we will see another striker coming in during January, I doubt however they will be a big dominant central defender or striker, someone like Gayle would be my guess and this will be because this is what our head coach is asking for.

[colinwhite]

Certainly agree with most of that Stu.

[Jims Dentist]

I think Martin was Joca's choice in the first instance., and he mostly stuck with him despite his want away attitude.
Perhaps because he could play with his back to goal and was not easily intimidated.

[FulhamStu]

I think Martin was Joca's choice in the first instance., and he mostly stuck with him despite his want away attitude.
Perhaps because he could play with his back to goal and was not easily intimidated.

Agree with that, interesting as I am not sure we have been linked with another Martin type player.   Imagine a motivated Zamora in today's 11.. that would work !

[Chutney]

With largely the same squad, Jokanovic performed miracles last season and got us in to the play offs, simply put, to expect him to do the same this season is simply unfair.

[MJG]

Last year usable squad to this years

*Edit: I say usable as LVC and Tunnicliffe never got a look in really after a certain point.

[Chutney]

Last year usable squad to this years

*Edit: I say usable as LVC and Tunnicliffe never got a look in really after a certain point.

Lack of improvement, especially in defence, is clear from this, had a really below par summer window, we need to do better in January if we want to even think about going up.

6th-11th seems about right for our current squad. The positives are that we should have plenty to spend in Jan and are comfortably inside FFP.

[RaySmith]

There are players who are good in the air,  athletic and physically tough, but also skilful, and good passers- you find often them in Prem teams, at Prem prices.

If we are bullied in games by more physical teams, is this to do with our small,  lightweight players, or more to do with our system, and how we are set out, and the way we train?

True you  need physically bigger players for more use of  the high ball, and ones who can compete for headers, but  they also probably are pretty skilful, as well as athletic and fast, and very fit, to play in his division.

I don't think we have been beaten by lack of brawn alone. Is it more the direct, pressing from the front, long passing, hard running style that means some teams seem to overwhelm us at times?
But, at our best, our style is good at combating this approach.

As said, Joka isn't adverse to a big man up front - he  really seemed to rate Martin. Perhaps it's more to do with the players available to him. You can only work with what you've got, though he obviously does favour a passing, play out from the back style, but I don't think he's adverse to having some, or even a lot of, players with combative qualities, as long as they can play too.

[General]

We lose a game and it's all the fault of Stats man.   Slav has has no say in recruitment and the yanks know nothing about football.  We should never have sold Aluko. These lines are trotted out after every defeat.

Can I suggest it's not as simple as that.  Signing a good striker is a priority for most clubs, scoring goals is the hardest part of the game and why goal scorers are at a premium.  What goes on behind the scenes we don't know however in the past few years we have tried to sign players like Mourne, Gayle, Huggill and others who would have been ideal.  Surely this suggests our recruitment team know what they are doing, however getting these signings over the line is hard.  It's hard to attract top strikers into tier 2 football, we will have to work within a budget not only for transfer fees but salaries of players.

I simply refuse to believe Slav has no say in who we buy.  He may not be the final decision maker but pretty much all the players bough in have similar characteristics.  Technical ability, athletic, etc.  Kamara probably the exception, however I suspect we see him as work in progress, someone with raw abilities who we can coach into a more technical player.

My issue with our recruitment is we lack a certain type.  Someone with presence, height and airiel ability.  This is why KMac is so important.   The reason we are impotent at corners is nobody has the physical attributes to attack and win the header.  I suspect Slav does not want a Flint type central defender as he feels he needs these players to start our attacks and wants players who are good on the ball in tight positions.  This however in my opinion leads us to being one dimensional, great on the eye but with limited options.

Is this down to Stats man, I very much doubt it.  I would love to have a one on one with Slav and put these points to him.  Yes, he wants better players and I suspect we will see another striker coming in during January, I doubt however they will be a big dominant central defender or striker, someone like Gayle would be my guess and this will be because this is what our head coach is asking for.

Sorry FulhamStu but straight off the bat you've just unknowingly contradicted yourself.

You're implying that the same excuses get brought out all the time and he blame is being put on the recruitment side of things where instead it might go deeper..

Then you say we've been linked with hugill, gayle etc but say it's hard to get these players to play in the championship and it's hard to get these deals over the line.

Firstly gayle and hugill have both played in the championship - so they clearly haven't got an ego about playing in the league.

Secondly you say it's hard to get the deals over the line...

Well answering that firstly - it's the recruitment teams job to get deals over the line regardless of difficulty... and secondly to that, as a team based in London,  with a premiership past and having played the nicest football in the league and creating the most chances etc... we should've been considered as arguably one of the most attractive clubs for players considering this league to come to.

Now there's a difference if recruitment chase after foreign players in teams much higher than us. Rolan at bordeaux for instance.. they wasted soo much time on him and got nothing for their efforts. For me that is shockingly bad work.

Then they struggled to tie down a striker as a result who knew the league well enough to guarantee goals and hit the ground running... which we've arguably had in the past 4 seasons with McCormack, Dembele and Martin... and now we've got a striker who's scored one goal in six and even missed a penalty and who cost perhaps 7/8 million who so far isn't worth the investment and will require further additional investment on top of the original sum to buy in another player who hopefully can. It's such a joke of a scenario it genuinely isn't funny.

Why make a half arsed investment which may or may not pay off when you can put a bit more money in and get a better player, better results, better brand awareness and ticket sales etc.. it's so self evident that the main difference between last season and this season is the playing staff we have available it beggars belief people think it's more than that.

Sone had the ability to win the ball and change the direction of a game on a pinpoint... the amount of times I saw him closely marked, turn his opposition marker and then burn him for pace last season alone was ridiculous.. not only that but he net contributed to nearly 20 goals for us in the form of goals and assists... if you had a 20 goal striker you would be ridiculously short sighted to pay genuine attention to the chances he misses... it may frustrate you but I'd still have 20 goals and loads of near chances or misses too than none of any of it.

Ludicrous that people are focusing on what he could've added more instead of the reality of what he added. I imagine he probably added even more by being in and around the box, keeping defenDersingham occupied or playing that bit deeper or defensively because of him or the amount of goals he contributed to as a pass before the key assist.

4 chances a game is currently in keeping with a third of our current chances. If you as a striker had potentially 25 to 30% more chances a game I guarantee that you'd a) probably score more goals and b) be in and around key areas and pushing to make the extra yards as a result.

Not to forget that Martin contributed another 9/10 goals and malone another 7 or so.. we've essentially at a most basic level seen our recruitment policy allow for 25- 30 goals go in the summer and have seen them replaced by 4 goals so far after nearly 1/3rd of a season.

If you think that has no influence on where we stand, our results and isn't directly due to the change in personnel and that that comes down to our recruitment process entirely then I'm lost for words.

It's like being in torrential rain without an umbrella and saying it's not raining and trying to convince others it isn't too.

[Riverside]

Last year usable squad to this years

*Edit: I say usable as LVC and Tunnicliffe never got a look in really after a certain point.

I do wonder how big a miss is Parker .
Not for his time or play on the field but his inspiration and leadership off it ( leadership of the players and support for Joca )
I rate Cairney as a player and as a growing leader but he cannot be in the Parker bracket yet ?

[epsomraver]

We lose a game and it's all the fault of Stats man.   Slav has has no say in recruitment and the yanks know nothing about football.  We should never have sold Aluko. These lines are trotted out after every defeat.

Can I suggest it's not as simple as that.  Signing a good striker is a priority for most clubs, scoring goals is the hardest part of the game and why goal scorers are at a premium.  What goes on behind the scenes we don't know however in the past few years we have tried to sign players like Mourne, Gayle, Huggill and others who would have been ideal.  Surely this suggests our recruitment team know what they are doing, however getting these signings over the line is hard.  It's hard to attract top strikers into tier 2 football, we will have to work within a budget not only for transfer fees but salaries of players.

I simply refuse to believe Slav has no say in who we buy.  He may not be the final decision maker but pretty much all the players bough in have similar characteristics.  Technical ability, athletic, etc.  Kamara probably the exception, however I suspect we see him as work in progress, someone with raw abilities who we can coach into a more technical player.

My issue with our recruitment is we lack a certain type.  Someone with presence, height and airiel ability.  This is why KMac is so important.   The reason we are impotent at corners is nobody has the physical attributes to attack and win the header.  I suspect Slav does not want a Flint type central defender as he feels he needs these players to start our attacks and wants players who are good on the ball in tight positions.  This however in my opinion leads us to being one dimensional, great on the eye but with limited options.

Is this down to Stats man, I very much doubt it.  I would love to have a one on one with Slav and put these points to him.  Yes, he wants better players and I suspect we will see another striker coming in during January, I doubt however they will be a big dominant central defender or striker, someone like Gayle would be my guess and this will be because this is what our head coach is asking for.

Sorry FulhamStu but straight off the bat you've just unknowingly contradicted yourself.

You're implying that the same excuses get brought out all the time and he blame is being put on the recruitment side of things where instead it might go deeper..

Then you say we've been linked with hugill, gayle etc but say it's hard to get these players to play in the championship and it's hard to get these deals over the line.

Firstly gayle and hugill have both played in the championship - so they clearly haven't got an ego about playing in the league.

Secondly you say it's hard to get the deals over the line...

Well answering that firstly - it's the recruitment teams job to get deals over the line regardless of difficulty... and secondly to that, as a team based in London,  with a premiership past and having played the nicest football in the league and creating the most chances etc... we should've been considered as arguably one of the most attractive clubs for players considering this league to come to.

Now there's a difference if recruitment chase after foreign players in teams much higher than us. Rolan at bordeaux for instance.. they wasted soo much time on him and got nothing for their efforts. For me that is shockingly bad work.

Then they struggled to tie down a striker as a result who knew the league well enough to guarantee goals and hit the ground running... which we've arguably had in the past 4 seasons with McCormack, Dembele and Martin... and now we've got a striker who's scored one goal in six and even missed a penalty and who cost perhaps 7/8 million who so far isn't worth the investment and will require further additional investment on top of the original sum to buy in another player who hopefully can. It's such a joke of a scenario it genuinely isn't funny.

Why make a half arsed investment which may or may not pay off when you can put a bit more money in and get a better player, better results, better brand awareness and ticket sales etc.. it's so self evident that the main difference between last season and this season is the playing staff we have available it beggars belief people think it's more than that.

Sone had the ability to win the ball and change the direction of a game on a pinpoint... the amount of times I saw him closely marked, turn his opposition marker and then burn him for pace last season alone was ridiculous.. not only that but he net contributed to nearly 20 goals for us in the form of goals and assists... if you had a 20 goal striker you would be ridiculously short sighted to pay genuine attention to the chances he misses... it may frustrate you but I'd still have 20 goals and loads of near chances or misses too than none of any of it.

Ludicrous that people are focusing on what he could've added more instead of the reality of what he added. I imagine he probably added even more by being in and around the box, keeping defenDersingham occupied or playing that bit deeper or defensively because of him or the amount of goals he contributed to as a pass before the key assist.

4 chances a game is currently in keeping with a third of our current chances. If you as a striker had potentially 25 to 30% more chances a game I guarantee that you'd a) probably score more goals and b) be in and around key areas and pushing to make the extra yards as a result.

Not to forget that Martin contributed another 9/10 goals and malone another 7 or so.. we've essentially at a most basic level seen our recruitment policy allow for 25- 30 goals go in the summer and have seen them replaced by 4 goals so far after nearly 1/3rd of a season.

If you think that has no influence on where we stand, our results and isn't directly due to the change in personnel and that that comes down to our recruitment process entirely then I'm lost for words.

It's like being in torrential rain without an umbrella and saying it's not raining and trying to convince others it isn't too.

0001.jpeg 0001.jpeg 0001.jpeg

[toshes mate]

I'm truly offended, FulhamStu, because I trot out my rubbish after a win. a loss or a draw, that the recruitment team (contracts, stats and scouts) needs to be judged upon results just as our coaching staff are, and it is as simple as that.  If the head coach start to order the recruitment team around then your remarks may make a bit more sense, but perhaps if there were not so many egos around Fulham FC off the pitch we might actually improve upon last season's play off failure.

[toshes mate]

It's like being in torrential rain without an umbrella and saying it's not raining and trying to convince others it isn't too.

Spot on General.

[Woolly Mammoth]

We lose a game and it's all the fault of Stats man.   Slav has has no say in recruitment and the yanks know nothing about football.  We should never have sold Aluko. These lines are trotted out after every defeat.

Can I suggest it's not as simple as that.  Signing a good striker is a priority for most clubs, scoring goals is the hardest part of the game and why goal scorers are at a premium.  What goes on behind the scenes we don't know however in the past few years we have tried to sign players like Mourne, Gayle, Huggill and others who would have been ideal.  Surely this suggests our recruitment team know what they are doing, however getting these signings over the line is hard.  It's hard to attract top strikers into tier 2 football, we will have to work within a budget not only for transfer fees but salaries of players.

I simply refuse to believe Slav has no say in who we buy.  He may not be the final decision maker but pretty much all the players bough in have similar characteristics.  Technical ability, athletic, etc.  Kamara probably the exception, however I suspect we see him as work in progress, someone with raw abilities who we can coach into a more technical player.

My issue with our recruitment is we lack a certain type.  Someone with presence, height and airiel ability.  This is why KMac is so important.   The reason we are impotent at corners is nobody has the physical attributes to attack and win the header.  I suspect Slav does not want a Flint type central defender as he feels he needs these players to start our attacks and wants players who are good on the ball in tight positions.  This however in my opinion leads us to being one dimensional, great on the eye but with limited options.

Is this down to Stats man, I very much doubt it.  I would love to have a one on one with Slav and put these points to him.  Yes, he wants better players and I suspect we will see another striker coming in during January, I doubt however they will be a big dominant central defender or striker, someone like Gayle would be my guess and this will be because this is what our head coach is asking for.

Sorry FulhamStu but straight off the bat you've just unknowingly contradicted yourself.

You're implying that the same excuses get brought out all the time and he blame is being put on the recruitment side of things where instead it might go deeper..

Then you say we've been linked with hugill, gayle etc but say it's hard to get these players to play in the championship and it's hard to get these deals over the line.

Firstly gayle and hugill have both played in the championship - so they clearly haven't got an ego about playing in the league.

Secondly you say it's hard to get the deals over the line...

Well answering that firstly - it's the recruitment teams job to get deals over the line regardless of difficulty... and secondly to that, as a team based in London,  with a premiership past and having played the nicest football in the league and creating the most chances etc... we should've been considered as arguably one of the most attractive clubs for players considering this league to come to.

Now there's a difference if recruitment chase after foreign players in teams much higher than us. Rolan at bordeaux for instance.. they wasted soo much time on him and got nothing for their efforts. For me that is shockingly bad work.

Then they struggled to tie down a striker as a result who knew the league well enough to guarantee goals and hit the ground running... which we've arguably had in the past 4 seasons with McCormack, Dembele and Martin... and now we've got a striker who's scored one goal in six and even missed a penalty and who cost perhaps 7/8 million who so far isn't worth the investment and will require further additional investment on top of the original sum to buy in another player who hopefully can. It's such a joke of a scenario it genuinely isn't funny.

Why make a half arsed investment which may or may not pay off when you can put a bit more money in and get a better player, better results, better brand awareness and ticket sales etc.. it's so self evident that the main difference between last season and this season is the playing staff we have available it beggars belief people think it's more than that.

Sone had the ability to win the ball and change the direction of a game on a pinpoint... the amount of times I saw him closely marked, turn his opposition marker and then burn him for pace last season alone was ridiculous.. not only that but he net contributed to nearly 20 goals for us in the form of goals and assists... if you had a 20 goal striker you would be ridiculously short sighted to pay genuine attention to the chances he misses... it may frustrate you but I'd still have 20 goals and loads of near chances or misses too than none of any of it.

Ludicrous that people are focusing on what he could've added more instead of the reality of what he added. I imagine he probably added even more by being in and around the box, keeping defenDersingham occupied or playing that bit deeper or defensively because of him or the amount of goals he contributed to as a pass before the key assist.

4 chances a game is currently in keeping with a third of our current chances. If you as a striker had potentially 25 to 30% more chances a game I guarantee that you'd a) probably score more goals and b) be in and around key areas and pushing to make the extra yards as a result.

Not to forget that Martin contributed another 9/10 goals and malone another 7 or so.. we've essentially at a most basic level seen our recruitment policy allow for 25- 30 goals go in the summer and have seen them replaced by 4 goals so far after nearly 1/3rd of a season.

If you think that has no influence on where we stand, our results and isn't directly due to the change in personnel and that that comes down to our recruitment process entirely then I'm lost for words.

It's like being in torrential rain without an umbrella and saying it's not raining and trying to convince others it isn't too.

0001.jpeg 0001.jpeg 0001.jpeg

A very good post General.

[FulhamStu]

Ok, let me respond, mainly to general but some others as well.


I am pointing out we did identify players that would have suited us, why we didn't get them over the line, you and I do not really know, but it is very likely to be that they would not play in the championship and this includes Mourne and Gayle, both would I suspect we were prepaired to pay big for.  Agree we wasted a lot of time chasing strikers we did not get.

So far as Aluko was concerned, he wanted a 4 year contract and to be paid as much as our highest earner,  would that have been the right thing to do.  How many goals has he scored for Reading from where he will retire if he lasts that long.  Similar comments could be made about Malone who had an amazing season last year.  Getting 12.5 million pounds for Malone and Aluko who cost us nothing is in my eyes good business.

I am in no way saying we always get the recruitment right, I would have wanted a quality striker and a quality centre back both during last summers and winters transfer window.  Yes, you can quite rightly argue Khan has not spent enough, fair enough, but it's not all down to Stats man, which was my main point and one you have ignored.

I am just debating with you, I am not always right, far from it, but I am entitled to my opinion as are you all.  We have many fans who come onto forums and moan like hell when we lose, others who are very balanced after wins or losses and some who are a little bit rose tinted types.

I want us to net spend £20M this winter to give us a real chance, as it stands I think we are behind too many other clubs in terms of our squads abilities, I also don't think we are balanced well enough and lack strong leaders at the back and as you say a 20 goal a season striker.  To get this player will cost, I fear, more that we are wiling or able to pay.

A good debate.

[filham]

We bought in some eight new players in the summer window and it is hard to see one of them making a position in the team his own, this cannot be good buying.
With this recent record of failure would you expect the same recruitment team to be given big money to be splashed around in the winter window.

[Chutney]

We bought in some eight new players in the summer window and it is hard to see one of them making a position in the team his own, this cannot be good buying.
With this recent record of failure would you expect the same recruitment team to be given big money to be splashed around in the winter window.

Yes, because it is headed by the owners son. I agree though, I'd much rather take recruitment away from him and his team as they are clearly not capable.

[Woolly Mammoth]

We bought in some eight new players in the summer window and it is hard to see one of them making a position in the team his own, this cannot be good buying.
With this recent record of failure would you expect the same recruitment team to be given big money to be splashed around in the winter window.

Yes, because it is headed by the owners son. I agree though, I'd much rather take recruitment away from him and his team as they are clearly not capable.

and the owners son, and the owners sons best mate, are the catalysts in this affair. 
Hence the reason why professional footballing individuals should be brought into negotiate transfers in and out, and to target the best and right prospects, not a rich mans son who as well as being obsessed with stats, has no real Football Association background of note.

[filham]

Stats Boy is obviously confident that his programme when applied to prospective new players produces  data on which the club can reliably spend millions.

Is he taken to task by applying the same programme using stats collected after the player has been at the club for a season.

[FulhamStu]

We paid decent money for 2 strikers, both these strikers looks to have potential to be decent but jury still out I guess,other than that we spent very little, that was the problem.
A lot of loan signings which financially is probably good but not really what you want. We have not yet seen Rafa, Ojo was clearly seen as first choice before his injury as is Kalas.  Norwood proving good backup in MF and Mollo looks decent for nothing. Cisse a dissapointment so far, but cost relatively little, Graham not yet seen.  Djalo a bit of a strange one but I suspect seen as low risk and one for the future and Piazon a good squad player now injured. So our recruitment is for me ok, we just did not compete with the likes of Wolves who have gone for it and now seeing the benefit. 

Again, I repeat, I do not think the fault lies with Stats boy as much as our lack of net spending.