Author Topic: January  (Read 2196 times)

FFC1987

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Re: January
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2017, 10:44:35 AM »
Seasons done. We're so far off playoffs now that significant transfers would be mainly to allow Slav to build a decent squad for next season (if hes here). Its so disappointing, but amazing to think, Fulhams greatest accolade is taking all absolute potentials and royally f**king it up. In a championship season with the likes of Cairney, McDonald and Sess, and by December after 20 games we're 15th on 26 points when the season objective was 2nd is unbelievable. Woeful, absolutely woeful.

Offline Count Flapula

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Re: January
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2017, 12:32:45 PM »
Our problem is that the squad became unbalanced this summer with too many wingers and no real strengthening to the spine of the team.  This is particularly poor because just about every bugger knew what was required and still is.

Including Jokanovic.

Offline YankeeJim

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Re: January
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2017, 05:30:28 PM »
Khan kept Mo's management team and they did a horrible job

... 

Khan was a dirt poor Pakistani immigrant who through his intelligence and shrewdness became a multi billionaire. He turned around the Jags which have always been losers and he will turn FFC around as well (I hope). 

When Khan took over, the following people left the board without being replaced

Dennis Turner - Fulham fan, Chief Economist for HSBC, director since 2009
Mark Collins - Fulham fan, property specialist, on board since 2001
Omar Fayed - MAF's son
Karim Fayed - MAF's son
Michael Cole - PR man (ex-Harrods director of public affairs)


As to Khan's background, I want to agree with you, but in my (admittedly limited) experience most self-made millionaires achieved that status through (in descending order of importance) being in the right place at the right time, working hard, and having a strong knowledge of the particular industrial niche in which they made their fortune (in Khan's case car bumpers). None of those are useful/relevant to Khan's ownership of Fulham.

So, to become a billionaire means being lucky? That might explain why you and I aren't billionaires. This is nonsense. Being in the right place at the right time can be luck. For example Fonte scoring. The difference between luck and skill is that Fonte has ceased scoring and Khan continues to make money. Mo's money, property and PR men ran the football side of FFC? I think not.
Running a multi billion dollar business requires a lot more ability than the bumper business. I know a lot about bumpers, having spent most of my life in some aspect of automotive repair business but I'm no where near  a billionaire. By your analogy, Mo's expertise in retail shouldn't have aided him in running FFC. Cream rises to the top. Be it bumpers or retail sales and hopefully history will repeat itself when it comes to football.
Its not that I could and others couldn't.
Its that I did and others didn't.


Offline Statto

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Re: January
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2017, 09:20:20 PM »
So, to become a billionaire means being lucky? That might explain why you and I aren't billionaires. This is nonsense. Being in the right place at the right time can be luck. For example Fonte scoring. The difference between luck and skill is that Fonte has ceased scoring and Khan continues to make money. Mo's money, property and PR men ran the football side of FFC? I think not.
Running a multi billion dollar business requires a lot more ability than the bumper business. I know a lot about bumpers, having spent most of my life in some aspect of automotive repair business but I'm no where near  a billionaire. By your analogy, Mo's expertise in retail shouldn't have aided him in running FFC. Cream rises to the top. Be it bumpers or retail sales and hopefully history will repeat itself when it comes to football.

That's your view, certainly isn't mine, but you're entitled to it. All I'll say is it sounds awfully depressing to me to suggest the massive gap between your and Khan's respective success levels is down to an equally massive gap in your inherent personal abilities. If that's how you feel about yourself, so be it.

Khan had some success in the past, most of it in the 1980s probably, but these days does he even outperform the S&P500 year-on-year?

The whole point I'm making is MAF had extra people to whom he delegated running the club, rather than a naive belief that success in fashion retail/car bumpers qualified him as a football chairman.   

As to "cream" rising to the top, we'll see. Khan's record at Fulham thus far suggests he's far from the "cream" of football chairmen, more like the scum or sediment that sinks to the bottom.... which rather reinforces my view that he has no useful talent outside the car bumper sector.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 09:58:24 PM by Statto »

Offline filham

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Re: January
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2017, 09:41:50 PM »
You know looking at our summer buying and selling I think there is plenty of room for us to improve in the winter window and still be a failure.
( Sorry just can't get over the Brentford game)

Offline FulhamStu

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Re: January
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2017, 09:49:57 PM »
Our winter transfer business has to be about planning for next season.  Remember Kalas, and many other players are loans and will be gone again.  We need to sign a centre half or 2 that have the potential to greatly improve us into next season.  Also, sign Fred on a contract extension and a left back.  Ok Fonte and Kamara have not done much although I still think Kamara looks to have potential, attacking wise is not our problem, defending is and we should strengthen the defence now.


Offline filham

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Re: January
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2017, 10:13:49 PM »
Our winter transfer business has to be about planning for next season.  Remember Kalas, and many other players are loans and will be gone again.  We need to sign a centre half or 2 that have the potential to greatly improve us into next season.  Also, sign Fred on a contract extension and a left back.  Ok Fonte and Kamara have not done much although I still think Kamara looks to have potential, attacking wise is not our problem, defending is and we should strengthen the defence now.
OK but if we take Fonte as the £9m benchmark for our summer signings what can we expect to get over the winter window .

Offline Lighthouse

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Re: January
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2017, 11:04:54 PM »
The important thing is identifying the right players in the right places. The club have tried in the past to bring in a centre half but have failed rather badly. Up front we had the right type of player in Martin but he didn't want to be here and ended up playing like it. Then this season we brought in a number 10 and a raw forward, neither of whom look the business just yet. Or is Ojo supposed to be our striker?

Plus Malone going meant Soares should have been his replacement allowing Sess to play further forward. But Soares clearly is not suitable or fit or any good.

Money isn't the problem but bringing in the right players in the right positions is. At the end of last season I talked about wanting a stronger spine to push on. We ended up with no improvement at all at keeper or the back and even worse up front.
The above IS NOT A LEGAL DOCUMENT. It is an opinion.

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Offline YankeeJim

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Re: January
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2017, 12:20:54 AM »
So, to become a billionaire means being lucky? That might explain why you and I aren't billionaires. This is nonsense. Being in the right place at the right time can be luck. For example Fonte scoring. The difference between luck and skill is that Fonte has ceased scoring and Khan continues to make money. Mo's money, property and PR men ran the football side of FFC? I think not.
Running a multi billion dollar business requires a lot more ability than the bumper business. I know a lot about bumpers, having spent most of my life in some aspect of automotive repair business but I'm no where near  a billionaire. By your analogy, Mo's expertise in retail shouldn't have aided him in running FFC. Cream rises to the top. Be it bumpers or retail sales and hopefully history will repeat itself when it comes to football.

That's your view, certainly isn't mine, but you're entitled to it. All I'll say is it sounds awfully depressing to me to suggest the massive gap between your and Khan's respective success levels is down to an equally massive gap in your inherent personal abilities. If that's how you feel about yourself, so be it.

Khan had some success in the past, most of it in the 1980s probably, but these days does he even outperform the S&P500 year-on-year?

The whole point I'm making is MAF had extra people to whom he delegated running the club, rather than a naive belief that success in fashion retail/car bumpers qualified him as a football chairman.   

As to "cream" rising to the top, we'll see. Khan's record at Fulham thus far suggests he's far from the "cream" of football chairmen, more like the scum or sediment that sinks to the bottom.... which rather reinforces my view that he has no useful talent outside the car bumper sector.

Khan kept the football people. Do you honestly believe that Khan discovered and bought Mitroglu or McCormack or Martin or Fonte? As a side note, would experience in bumpers or retail help a person pick a football man? For that matter is success at football a guarantee that there will be success in the future? I give you Felix and Moyes. Both had prior success and failed in their next go round. I don't think that Sir Alex could have saved us from relegation. Success is as much a manner of thinking as it is anything else. Will Khan succeed? If I said the head of Tesco just bought Fulham, would you be happy? The point being that a non football person in a time of unlimited spending could buy a successful team. A second non football  person takes over in a time of controlled spending and gets an aged, run down and totally gutted team.....maybe timing and luck is the only answer. LOL 
Its not that I could and others couldn't.
Its that I did and others didn't.


Offline Woolly Mammoth

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Re: January
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2017, 12:52:02 AM »
So, to become a billionaire means being lucky? That might explain why you and I aren't billionaires. This is nonsense. Being in the right place at the right time can be luck. For example Fonte scoring. The difference between luck and skill is that Fonte has ceased scoring and Khan continues to make money. Mo's money, property and PR men ran the football side of FFC? I think not.
Running a multi billion dollar business requires a lot more ability than the bumper business. I know a lot about bumpers, having spent most of my life in some aspect of automotive repair business but I'm no where near  a billionaire. By your analogy, Mo's expertise in retail shouldn't have aided him in running FFC. Cream rises to the top. Be it bumpers or retail sales and hopefully history will repeat itself when it comes to football.

That's your view, certainly isn't mine, but you're entitled to it. All I'll say is it sounds awfully depressing to me to suggest the massive gap between your and Khan's respective success levels is down to an equally massive gap in your inherent personal abilities. If that's how you feel about yourself, so be it.

Khan had some success in the past, most of it in the 1980s probably, but these days does he even outperform the S&P500 year-on-year?

The whole point I'm making is MAF had extra people to whom he delegated running the club, rather than a naive belief that success in fashion retail/car bumpers qualified him as a football chairman.   

As to "cream" rising to the top, we'll see. Khan's record at Fulham thus far suggests he's far from the "cream" of football chairmen, more like the scum or sediment that sinks to the bottom.... which rather reinforces my view that he has no useful talent outside the car bumper sector.

Khan kept the football people. Do you honestly believe that Khan discovered and bought Mitroglu or McCormack or Martin or Fonte? As a side note, would experience in bumpers or retail help a person pick a football man? For that matter is success at football a guarantee that there will be success in the future? I give you Felix and Moyes. Both had prior success and failed in their next go round. I don't think that Sir Alex could have saved us from relegation. Success is as much a manner of thinking as it is anything else. Will Khan succeed? If I said the head of Tesco just bought Fulham, would you be happy? The point being that a non football person in a time of unlimited spending could buy a successful team. A second non football  person takes over in a time of controlled spending and gets an aged, run down and totally gutted team.....maybe timing and luck is the only answer. LOL 

I can agree with a little of what you say.
One of the issues I do disagree fervently is, that any number of managers I am sure would have saved us from relegation, including Ferguson, and that is the tragedy. We drew the short straw with one of worst errors of judgement this club has ever made in the form of Felix Wolfgang Magath.
But that is now water under the bridge, nothing can be done to erase that, until we get back to the Premier League, and if we are going to measure and judge Mr Khan, then this is where we get the tape measure out, if he can orchestrate our return to the Premier League.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 07:30:19 AM by Woolly Mammoth »
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Offline Snibbo

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Re: January
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2017, 03:24:38 AM »
More to the point, how many decent players would want to join us? Almost zero chance of promotion this season, so at least one more in the Champ, a manager whose tactics and substitutions are baffling, a seemingly disfunctional management structure, the likelihood of 2 or 3 star players leaving at the end of this season. Not really an attractive proposition for someone with other options.
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Offline Woolly Mammoth

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Re: January
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2017, 06:44:28 AM »
More to the point, how many decent players would want to join us? Almost zero chance of promotion this season, so at least one more in the Champ, a manager whose tactics and substitutions are baffling, a seemingly disfunctional management structure, the likelihood of 2 or 3 star players leaving at the end of this season. Not really an attractive proposition for someone with other options.

You have basically said it all as it is. That is the reality facing us, and it’s a fact, key points again.
1. Star quality key players leaving at end of season.
2. What kind of quality player would find us attractive enough to want to join us.
3. A seemingly disfunctional management structure, that appears to be fractured.
4. Team selection, tactics, substitutions and game management totally baffling.
5. Round pegs in square holes all over the pitch.
6. No visual Leadership on the pitch, and it appears not that much better off it.
Etc Etc.
All the signs of a team and club whose inconsistant results on the pitch with 6 wins out of twenty mirrors the problems off the pitch.
Then I check the League table and notice that we have yet to reach halfway, and there are still 26 matches left 78 points up for grabs to add to the 26 points already accumulated.
Not forgetting an FA Cup run, nobody should stick their noses up at that as winning can become a habit, and a good cup run can move in conjunction with a League play off place.
I know my Jam Tart is ruling my Loaf of Bread, but small miracles do happen.
To qualify for this small miracle, and I am hoping the club have targeted in January a Goalkeeper, a Centre Back, at least one Striker. That is the minimum requirement we need.
To give ourselves a fighting chance to avoid losing key players at the end of the season and obtain a top 6 place.
 Without those reinforcements we can kiss any hope of that goodbye.
Knowing the way our club operates, the likelyhood of that happening is remote.
We haven’t long to find out, important decisions have to be made quickly.
Or is it just wishful thinking and I shouldn’t even contemplate thinking that the recruitment department are thinking on similiar lines. 
Not forgetting where will that leave the current manager.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 07:10:18 AM by Woolly Mammoth »
Its not the man in the fight, it's the fight in the man.  🐘


Offline toshes mate

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Re: January
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2017, 09:39:50 AM »
Not every human being wants to be rich and we are all migrants of some description whether macro or micro, a former or current generation.   I believe there is both luck and desire at work when anyone not born with a mouthful of silver spoon makes big money.  You choose to want to make loads of money, and then fortune plays its much bigger role.   

Fulham buy/sign/employ someone and there is a percentage chance it’ll work out well for both, a percentage chance it’ll work out well for one party, and a percentage chance it won’t work out for anyone at all.  The percentages vary every time because it’s the microcosm of all things although calculus suggests there is higher probability of an average outcome. 

Individual choices have been made to get to the meeting of ways and from that point there flows an outcome determined by chance.  And so when something works well, you learn, via experience, to keep hold of it, like you do friendship, because anything above average is good.   And yet, when money interferes a lot of life principles get thrown out and bad things start to happen which may be mistaken for good.

I don’t know what Fulham should do in January but I do know the Club needs to reflect more upon ‘holding on to better than average’ principle than the ‘money talks louder’ principle.   

The Khans may not be the best people to understand that, since, when you have money, who are your real true friends?

Offline Baszab

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Re: January
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2017, 09:48:11 AM »
Dream on....... surely by now everyone can see that NET spend will always be zero

So if we need new players, let’s wish Ryan good luck at Spurs unless we get the one year loan back

Offline Twig

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Re: January
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2017, 11:24:24 AM »
I'm not sure Jan is the time to spend significant money anyway.  It is a notoriously difficult time to identify and sign good players (unless you throw silly money away, which we won't and shouldn't).

We should probably focus on one position, CB in my view, and go after that.  Leave the rest until the summer.  Frustrating but as others have said the season has drifted away from us now and mid table is the likely endgame.