Author Topic: January  (Read 3473 times)

Offline FulhamStu

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Re: January
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2017, 09:49:57 PM »
Our winter transfer business has to be about planning for next season.  Remember Kalas, and many other players are loans and will be gone again.  We need to sign a centre half or 2 that have the potential to greatly improve us into next season.  Also, sign Fred on a contract extension and a left back.  Ok Fonte and Kamara have not done much although I still think Kamara looks to have potential, attacking wise is not our problem, defending is and we should strengthen the defence now.

Offline filham

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Re: January
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2017, 10:13:49 PM »
Our winter transfer business has to be about planning for next season.  Remember Kalas, and many other players are loans and will be gone again.  We need to sign a centre half or 2 that have the potential to greatly improve us into next season.  Also, sign Fred on a contract extension and a left back.  Ok Fonte and Kamara have not done much although I still think Kamara looks to have potential, attacking wise is not our problem, defending is and we should strengthen the defence now.
OK but if we take Fonte as the £9m benchmark for our summer signings what can we expect to get over the winter window .

Offline Lighthouse

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Re: January
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2017, 11:04:54 PM »
The important thing is identifying the right players in the right places. The club have tried in the past to bring in a centre half but have failed rather badly. Up front we had the right type of player in Martin but he didn't want to be here and ended up playing like it. Then this season we brought in a number 10 and a raw forward, neither of whom look the business just yet. Or is Ojo supposed to be our striker?

Plus Malone going meant Soares should have been his replacement allowing Sess to play further forward. But Soares clearly is not suitable or fit or any good.

Money isn't the problem but bringing in the right players in the right positions is. At the end of last season I talked about wanting a stronger spine to push on. We ended up with no improvement at all at keeper or the back and even worse up front.


Offline YankeeJim

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Re: January
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2017, 12:20:54 AM »
So, to become a billionaire means being lucky? That might explain why you and I aren't billionaires. This is nonsense. Being in the right place at the right time can be luck. For example Fonte scoring. The difference between luck and skill is that Fonte has ceased scoring and Khan continues to make money. Mo's money, property and PR men ran the football side of FFC? I think not.
Running a multi billion dollar business requires a lot more ability than the bumper business. I know a lot about bumpers, having spent most of my life in some aspect of automotive repair business but I'm no where near  a billionaire. By your analogy, Mo's expertise in retail shouldn't have aided him in running FFC. Cream rises to the top. Be it bumpers or retail sales and hopefully history will repeat itself when it comes to football.

That's your view, certainly isn't mine, but you're entitled to it. All I'll say is it sounds awfully depressing to me to suggest the massive gap between your and Khan's respective success levels is down to an equally massive gap in your inherent personal abilities. If that's how you feel about yourself, so be it.

Khan had some success in the past, most of it in the 1980s probably, but these days does he even outperform the S&P500 year-on-year?

The whole point I'm making is MAF had extra people to whom he delegated running the club, rather than a naive belief that success in fashion retail/car bumpers qualified him as a football chairman.   

As to "cream" rising to the top, we'll see. Khan's record at Fulham thus far suggests he's far from the "cream" of football chairmen, more like the scum or sediment that sinks to the bottom.... which rather reinforces my view that he has no useful talent outside the car bumper sector.

Khan kept the football people. Do you honestly believe that Khan discovered and bought Mitroglu or McCormack or Martin or Fonte? As a side note, would experience in bumpers or retail help a person pick a football man? For that matter is success at football a guarantee that there will be success in the future? I give you Felix and Moyes. Both had prior success and failed in their next go round. I don't think that Sir Alex could have saved us from relegation. Success is as much a manner of thinking as it is anything else. Will Khan succeed? If I said the head of Tesco just bought Fulham, would you be happy? The point being that a non football person in a time of unlimited spending could buy a successful team. A second non football  person takes over in a time of controlled spending and gets an aged, run down and totally gutted team.....maybe timing and luck is the only answer. LOL 

Offline Woolly Mammoth

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Re: January
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2017, 12:52:02 AM »
So, to become a billionaire means being lucky? That might explain why you and I aren't billionaires. This is nonsense. Being in the right place at the right time can be luck. For example Fonte scoring. The difference between luck and skill is that Fonte has ceased scoring and Khan continues to make money. Mo's money, property and PR men ran the football side of FFC? I think not.
Running a multi billion dollar business requires a lot more ability than the bumper business. I know a lot about bumpers, having spent most of my life in some aspect of automotive repair business but I'm no where near  a billionaire. By your analogy, Mo's expertise in retail shouldn't have aided him in running FFC. Cream rises to the top. Be it bumpers or retail sales and hopefully history will repeat itself when it comes to football.

That's your view, certainly isn't mine, but you're entitled to it. All I'll say is it sounds awfully depressing to me to suggest the massive gap between your and Khan's respective success levels is down to an equally massive gap in your inherent personal abilities. If that's how you feel about yourself, so be it.

Khan had some success in the past, most of it in the 1980s probably, but these days does he even outperform the S&P500 year-on-year?

The whole point I'm making is MAF had extra people to whom he delegated running the club, rather than a naive belief that success in fashion retail/car bumpers qualified him as a football chairman.   

As to "cream" rising to the top, we'll see. Khan's record at Fulham thus far suggests he's far from the "cream" of football chairmen, more like the scum or sediment that sinks to the bottom.... which rather reinforces my view that he has no useful talent outside the car bumper sector.

Khan kept the football people. Do you honestly believe that Khan discovered and bought Mitroglu or McCormack or Martin or Fonte? As a side note, would experience in bumpers or retail help a person pick a football man? For that matter is success at football a guarantee that there will be success in the future? I give you Felix and Moyes. Both had prior success and failed in their next go round. I don't think that Sir Alex could have saved us from relegation. Success is as much a manner of thinking as it is anything else. Will Khan succeed? If I said the head of Tesco just bought Fulham, would you be happy? The point being that a non football person in a time of unlimited spending could buy a successful team. A second non football  person takes over in a time of controlled spending and gets an aged, run down and totally gutted team.....maybe timing and luck is the only answer. LOL 

I can agree with a little of what you say.
One of the issues I do disagree fervently is, that any number of managers I am sure would have saved us from relegation, including Ferguson, and that is the tragedy. We drew the short straw with one of worst errors of judgement this club has ever made in the form of Felix Wolfgang Magath.
But that is now water under the bridge, nothing can be done to erase that, until we get back to the Premier League, and if we are going to measure and judge Mr Khan, then this is where we get the tape measure out, if he can orchestrate our return to the Premier League.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 07:30:19 AM by Woolly Mammoth »

Offline Snibbo

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Re: January
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2017, 03:24:38 AM »
More to the point, how many decent players would want to join us? Almost zero chance of promotion this season, so at least one more in the Champ, a manager whose tactics and substitutions are baffling, a seemingly disfunctional management structure, the likelihood of 2 or 3 star players leaving at the end of this season. Not really an attractive proposition for someone with other options.


Offline Woolly Mammoth

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Re: January
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2017, 06:44:28 AM »
More to the point, how many decent players would want to join us? Almost zero chance of promotion this season, so at least one more in the Champ, a manager whose tactics and substitutions are baffling, a seemingly disfunctional management structure, the likelihood of 2 or 3 star players leaving at the end of this season. Not really an attractive proposition for someone with other options.

You have basically said it all as it is. That is the reality facing us, and it’s a fact, key points again.
1. Star quality key players leaving at end of season.
2. What kind of quality player would find us attractive enough to want to join us.
3. A seemingly disfunctional management structure, that appears to be fractured.
4. Team selection, tactics, substitutions and game management totally baffling.
5. Round pegs in square holes all over the pitch.
6. No visual Leadership on the pitch, and it appears not that much better off it.
Etc Etc.
All the signs of a team and club whose inconsistant results on the pitch with 6 wins out of twenty mirrors the problems off the pitch.
Then I check the League table and notice that we have yet to reach halfway, and there are still 26 matches left 78 points up for grabs to add to the 26 points already accumulated.
Not forgetting an FA Cup run, nobody should stick their noses up at that as winning can become a habit, and a good cup run can move in conjunction with a League play off place.
I know my Jam Tart is ruling my Loaf of Bread, but small miracles do happen.
To qualify for this small miracle, and I am hoping the club have targeted in January a Goalkeeper, a Centre Back, at least one Striker. That is the minimum requirement we need.
To give ourselves a fighting chance to avoid losing key players at the end of the season and obtain a top 6 place.
 Without those reinforcements we can kiss any hope of that goodbye.
Knowing the way our club operates, the likelyhood of that happening is remote.
We haven’t long to find out, important decisions have to be made quickly.
Or is it just wishful thinking and I shouldn’t even contemplate thinking that the recruitment department are thinking on similiar lines. 
Not forgetting where will that leave the current manager.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 07:10:18 AM by Woolly Mammoth »

Offline toshes mate

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Re: January
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2017, 09:39:50 AM »
Not every human being wants to be rich and we are all migrants of some description whether macro or micro, a former or current generation.   I believe there is both luck and desire at work when anyone not born with a mouthful of silver spoon makes big money.  You choose to want to make loads of money, and then fortune plays its much bigger role.   

Fulham buy/sign/employ someone and there is a percentage chance it’ll work out well for both, a percentage chance it’ll work out well for one party, and a percentage chance it won’t work out for anyone at all.  The percentages vary every time because it’s the microcosm of all things although calculus suggests there is higher probability of an average outcome. 

Individual choices have been made to get to the meeting of ways and from that point there flows an outcome determined by chance.  And so when something works well, you learn, via experience, to keep hold of it, like you do friendship, because anything above average is good.   And yet, when money interferes a lot of life principles get thrown out and bad things start to happen which may be mistaken for good.

I don’t know what Fulham should do in January but I do know the Club needs to reflect more upon ‘holding on to better than average’ principle than the ‘money talks louder’ principle.   

The Khans may not be the best people to understand that, since, when you have money, who are your real true friends?

Offline Baszab

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Re: January
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2017, 09:48:11 AM »
Dream on....... surely by now everyone can see that NET spend will always be zero

So if we need new players, let’s wish Ryan good luck at Spurs unless we get the one year loan back


Offline Twig

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Re: January
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2017, 11:24:24 AM »
I'm not sure Jan is the time to spend significant money anyway.  It is a notoriously difficult time to identify and sign good players (unless you throw silly money away, which we won't and shouldn't).

We should probably focus on one position, CB in my view, and go after that.  Leave the rest until the summer.  Frustrating but as others have said the season has drifted away from us now and mid table is the likely endgame.

Offline Twig

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Re: January
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2017, 11:26:38 AM »
As to the OP, how much could we potentially spend within FFP, no idea but we must have some decent latitude.

Offline RaySmith

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Re: January
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2017, 12:30:40 PM »
We're definitely rubbish defensively at the moment, no doubt about that.

But is it the players we have, or our system? How can opponents cut straight through us and score from one of our attacks, like they Brentford did? The second goal was also sloppy defending.

Roy used to have us defending from the front. OK, so we play a far more adventurous system, that is great when it comes off, but we need to make it harder for teams  to score against us, while putting the chances we create away at the other end.

Maybe  new players would help, if we get the right ones in.


Offline toshes mate

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Re: January
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2017, 01:03:47 PM »
So much defeatism 'the season is over' etc.  Why allow the recruitment team to get away with a poor January window because 'they are always difficult'?

The season isn't over by a long chalk and no window is destined to be poor unless you think that way. 

We just need to be much more positive about our Club and not let one forty five minute nightmare drown out the good things that have happened in 2017.

Online Statto

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Re: January
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2017, 01:36:31 PM »
With Mackintosh in control of negotiations, our “summer” targets won’t be signed in the summer at all. They’ll be signed in Autumn, 5 or 6 games into the season, or alternatively we’ll be mugged off for an age then the deal won’t happen at all (remember Dunk, Mounie, Rolan, Kamara first time around, Cyriac first time around, and Gayle).

That being the case, IMO we have to get our key targets in January, irrespective of how expensive the January market is and how sure we are that this season is a write-off.

Offline Woolly Mammoth

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Re: January
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2017, 04:13:24 PM »
Well if we are going to write off this season after 20 matches, then life is not worth living and we may as well end it all now via Beachy Head.
I cannot understand the people who have surrendered and thrown the towel in.
We are not even half way through the season, do people realise that if Fulham limp towards the end of the season with its head in it’s hands, what the consequences will be.
The vultures are going to be circulating anyway, and if we look like a dead duck as well, we will not only lose our prize assets in the form of our key players, but also our credibility and stock.
You cannot concede that the season is over, and think by treading water until the summer is vision and foresight.
Because if you stand still you get overtaken.
I would like to think that some of you are made of sturdier stock than the players the club signed via their stats system.
Because sometimes you reap what you sow and get what you deserve.
So what are you, men or mice or do I need to throw down a piece of cheese to find out.
We may have hit the canvas, but it’s no knockout, just a little winded.
I always measure a manager and a player and a supporter and a Football Club how they get up off the floor, not how they go down.   
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 04:17:31 PM by Woolly Mammoth »


Offline MikeW

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Re: January
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2017, 04:26:27 PM »
Thanks Twig for bringing the OP question back into focus:

Two thoughts - Does anyone know what we can spend (roughly) in Jan - irrespective of the reality?

Also, talk of Jan signings (which I support) does bring the focus back on the ever silent Messrs Talbot.  I sincerely hope they are beavering away pursuing the Coach's hit list of new talent.

One request though, please keep away from the French Div 2 and any Portugese Leagues!

Offline YankeeJim

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Re: January
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2017, 05:13:44 PM »
So, to become a billionaire means being lucky? That might explain why you and I aren't billionaires. This is nonsense. Being in the right place at the right time can be luck. For example Fonte scoring. The difference between luck and skill is that Fonte has ceased scoring and Khan continues to make money. Mo's money, property and PR men ran the football side of FFC? I think not.
Running a multi billion dollar business requires a lot more ability than the bumper business. I know a lot about bumpers, having spent most of my life in some aspect of automotive repair business but I'm no where near  a billionaire. By your analogy, Mo's expertise in retail shouldn't have aided him in running FFC. Cream rises to the top. Be it bumpers or retail sales and hopefully history will repeat itself when it comes to football.

That's your view, certainly isn't mine, but you're entitled to it. All I'll say is it sounds awfully depressing to me to suggest the massive gap between your and Khan's respective success levels is down to an equally massive gap in your inherent personal abilities. If that's how you feel about yourself, so be it.

Khan had some success in the past, most of it in the 1980s probably, but these days does he even outperform the S&P500 year-on-year?

The whole point I'm making is MAF had extra people to whom he delegated running the club, rather than a naive belief that success in fashion retail/car bumpers qualified him as a football chairman.   

As to "cream" rising to the top, we'll see. Khan's record at Fulham thus far suggests he's far from the "cream" of football chairmen, more like the scum or sediment that sinks to the bottom.... which rather reinforces my view that he has no useful talent outside the car bumper sector.

Khan kept the football people. Do you honestly believe that Khan discovered and bought Mitroglu or McCormack or Martin or Fonte? As a side note, would experience in bumpers or retail help a person pick a football man? For that matter is success at football a guarantee that there will be success in the future? I give you Felix and Moyes. Both had prior success and failed in their next go round. I don't think that Sir Alex could have saved us from relegation. Success is as much a manner of thinking as it is anything else. Will Khan succeed? If I said the head of Tesco just bought Fulham, would you be happy? The point being that a non football person in a time of unlimited spending could buy a successful team. A second non football  person takes over in a time of controlled spending and gets an aged, run down and totally gutted team.....maybe timing and luck is the only answer. LOL 

I can agree with a little of what you say.
One of the issues I do disagree fervently is, that any number of managers I am sure would have saved us from relegation, including Ferguson, and that is the tragedy. We drew the short straw with one of worst errors of judgement this club has ever made in the form of Felix Wolfgang Magath.
But that is now water under the bridge, nothing can be done to erase that, until we get back to the Premier League, and if we are going to measure and judge Mr Khan, then this is where we get the tape measure out, if he can orchestrate our return to the Premier League.


No manager would have saved us. Mo had lost interest and gave no support to the club that last year and a half. We had no players except cast offs. Strategy, no matter how skillful, is going to make a difference over the course of a season if you don't have players. We didn't have Red Nose, we had Jol, a clueless and disheartened man the world has never known. Felix was a shot at desperation. His resume said he'd be good. I think we'll agree that his resume lied.  The problem wasn't Felix, he was simply another symptom. The problem began in Mo's neglect and was fueled by Jol's (and others) incompetence.  We now have Khan as the sole person responsible for our future. Hopefully he'll do for us what he has done this year in Jacksonville. I won't mentioned that it took more years than necessary to turn that team around. The fact that he did so gives me hope. Fulham has two types of fans. Those of us who hope and wish for better times and those who just enjoy the failures.

Offline Twig

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Re: January
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2017, 06:04:13 PM »
Thanks Twig for bringing the OP question back into focus:

Two thoughts - Does anyone know what we can spend (roughly) in Jan - irrespective of the reality?

Also, talk of Jan signings (which I support) does bring the focus back on the ever silent Messrs Talbot.  I sincerely hope they are beavering away pursuing the Coach's hit list of new talent.

One request though, please keep away from the French Div 2 and any Portugese Leagues!

Haha, I like the last sentence. As to the point about how much we could theoretically spend you would have to make some assumptions.  I'm no expert on FFP but as I understand, the limits involve averaging net spend over 3? years.  I have probably oversimplified but there are one or two on here who are experts on this.  My point is that if we were to spend up to some theoretical maximum then presumably you would have to assume were spent net zero for 2 1/2 yrs afterwards.  Is that right please? HELP!

Offline Woolly Mammoth

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Re: January
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2017, 06:08:37 PM »
So, to become a billionaire means being lucky? That might explain why you and I aren't billionaires. This is nonsense. Being in the right place at the right time can be luck. For example Fonte scoring. The difference between luck and skill is that Fonte has ceased scoring and Khan continues to make money. Mo's money, property and PR men ran the football side of FFC? I think not.
Running a multi billion dollar business requires a lot more ability than the bumper business. I know a lot about bumpers, having spent most of my life in some aspect of automotive repair business but I'm no where near  a billionaire. By your analogy, Mo's expertise in retail shouldn't have aided him in running FFC. Cream rises to the top. Be it bumpers or retail sales and hopefully history will repeat itself when it comes to football.

That's your view, certainly isn't mine, but you're entitled to it. All I'll say is it sounds awfully depressing to me to suggest the massive gap between your and Khan's respective success levels is down to an equally massive gap in your inherent personal abilities. If that's how you feel about yourself, so be it.

Khan had some success in the past, most of it in the 1980s probably, but these days does he even outperform the S&P500 year-on-year?

The whole point I'm making is MAF had extra people to whom he delegated running the club, rather than a naive belief that success in fashion retail/car bumpers qualified him as a football chairman.   

As to "cream" rising to the top, we'll see. Khan's record at Fulham thus far suggests he's far from the "cream" of football chairmen, more like the scum or sediment that sinks to the bottom.... which rather reinforces my view that he has no useful talent outside the car bumper sector.

Khan kept the football people. Do you honestly believe that Khan discovered and bought Mitroglu or McCormack or Martin or Fonte? As a side note, would experience in bumpers or retail help a person pick a football man? For that matter is success at football a guarantee that there will be success in the future? I give you Felix and Moyes. Both had prior success and failed in their next go round. I don't think that Sir Alex could have saved us from relegation. Success is as much a manner of thinking as it is anything else. Will Khan succeed? If I said the head of Tesco just bought Fulham, would you be happy? The point being that a non football person in a time of unlimited spending could buy a successful team. A second non football  person takes over in a time of controlled spending and gets an aged, run down and totally gutted team.....maybe timing and luck is the only answer. LOL 

I can agree with a little of what you say.
One of the issues I do disagree fervently is, that any number of managers I am sure would have saved us from relegation, including Ferguson, and that is the tragedy. We drew the short straw with one of worst errors of judgement this club has ever made in the form of Felix Wolfgang Magath.
But that is now water under the bridge, nothing can be done to erase that, until we get back to the Premier League, and if we are going to measure and judge Mr Khan, then this is where we get the tape measure out, if he can orchestrate our return to the Premier League.


No manager would have saved us. Mo had lost interest and gave no support to the club that last year and a half. We had no players except cast offs. Strategy, no matter how skillful, is going to make a difference over the course of a season if you don't have players. We didn't have Red Nose, we had Jol, a clueless and disheartened man the world has never known. Felix was a shot at desperation. His resume said he'd be good. I think we'll agree that his resume lied.  The problem wasn't Felix, he was simply another symptom. The problem began in Mo's neglect and was fueled by Jol's (and others) incompetence.  We now have Khan as the sole person responsible for our future. Hopefully he'll do for us what he has done this year in Jacksonville. I won't mentioned that it took more years than necessary to turn that team around. The fact that he did so gives me hope. Fulham has two types of fans. Those of us who hope and wish for better times and those who just enjoy the failures.

I totally disagree with you about the relegation season, and Magath who orchestrated our demise all on his own, the nightmare your mother told you about, and Khan gave him a licence to relegate Fulham FC, and the way he treated the senior professionals from Hangland downwards. This control freaks  training regimes and the medieval rules he imposed to ruin any team spirit, putting  Dan Burn at right back v Stoke, when 2 0 Up v Hull and proceeded to take a midfielder off, I think it was Scottie Parker and put Darren Bent on and we drew 2 2, Steve Bruce must have thought it was his birthday, that just 2 examples. Like many others I was in attendance for our last 9 matches Home and away, I saw it first hand at Motspur Park.
So urinating down my back and then telling me it’s raining, does not wash with me.
As for Khan, I have no faith in him either, he can charm some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time.
He is no football man, or Fulham supporter and never will be.
He clearly forgets that you cannot bull shite a bull shiter.
So we will have to agree to disagree on this occasion.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 06:15:33 PM by Woolly Mammoth »

Offline YankeeJim

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Re: January
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2017, 09:51:20 PM »
Woolly, the team put on the filed by Jol and others was crap and they lost. Felix came in, put different crap on the field and we still lost. If Mo had stayed, we would still have been relegated. You can't redo two years of neglect with a management change. The team was well past its sell on date. So back to your next to last line. Cheers.