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Is Khan planning long term theory.

Started by FulhamStu, December 07, 2017, 06:18:14 AM

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MJG

Im sure its a mixture of long term and short term thinking. Its the only way running a football club can work.
Long term is the Stand and Craven Cottage as a whole, Motspur Park upgrades plus purchase of other land, Youth team development and long term contracts for players.
Short term is the need to go up but also to set in place plans if that does not happen (refer to the long contracts above as part of that) and support given to the First Team setup. Many believe thats splashing cash and that will solve all the problems and its doesn't, it can actually increase problems through debt and sanctions if it all goes wrong.
Just the views of a long term fan

toshes mate

Quote from: FulhamStu on December 07, 2017, 09:52:47 PM
Are you seriously saying the new stand is a waste of time ?
If you are then, I totally disagree.  Craven Cottage is a beautiful football ground but totally lacks facilities required to compete in the modern era. 
What makes Craven Cottage a charismatic football stadium is the part of it that is listed property.  The Riverside is unattractive and has not aged well but then it wasn't planned well either.  The single most important part of the original intention of the development of the Riverside/Hammersmith/Putney sides (the only sides that can be developed) was to increase capacity pushing the maximum close to or slightly above 30k.  That was when we were still in the PL.   Football attendances are not a particularly successful revenue raiser outside perhaps the top half of the PL, i.e the most successful clubs, and even then TV/media money still trumps everything else because of its certainty regardless of being best playing the game of football.  Improving stadium ambience and atmosphere by filling them to capacity has always been good for the spectacle of game, paradoxically the case with smaller clubs and smaller grounds.  The larger grounds which are seldom full have little or no ambience and atmosphere, hence the argument they have no soul.  So how do you look at a development plan? 

My take on stadium development has always been the necessity of obtaining revenue unrelated to the football business and, as I said in my previous post which you clearly haven't noted, it is that that should drive a development because otherwise it is simply indulgence which will not further the cause of the club involved.  Football stadia are more often (by a long way) empty than they are full and that is something football as a business needs to address particularly given the situation of certain grounds like Craven Cottage.  There are a lot of ways that Craven Cottage income could be improved.  I saw some evidence of it in the original Riverside update plan but I don't see it in the new one and I guess that is because the reports didn't reveal any likelihood of successfully diversifying Craven Cottage.

MJG

Quote from: Statto on December 08, 2017, 09:28:04 AM
Quote from: MJG on December 08, 2017, 08:54:16 AM
Many believe thats splashing cash and that will solve all the problems and its doesn't, it can actually increase problems through debt and sanctions if it all goes wrong.

For me, and I presume a lot of others, the call for short-term spending on players comes with the implied caveat that it's within the limits of FFP. But that still leaves room for Khan to inject significant capital and underwrite significant losses. I just want to see that happening (and I acknowledge things like our big money approach for Gayle suggest that money is there, which is reassuring)
I dont disagree with that. Although I'm not one who advocates spending every penny to the limit either. There has to balance in it somewhere. The 'splashing cash' quote is really aimed at those who dont think FFP or sensible use of money should come in to play.
Just the views of a long term fan


MJG

Quote from: toshes mate on December 08, 2017, 09:13:36 AM
Quote from: FulhamStu on December 07, 2017, 09:52:47 PM
Are you seriously saying the new stand is a waste of time ?
If you are then, I totally disagree.  Craven Cottage is a beautiful football ground but totally lacks facilities required to compete in the modern era. 
There are a lot of ways that Craven Cottage income could be improved.  I saw some evidence of it in the original Riverside update plan but I don't see it in the new one and I guess that is because the reports didn't reveal any likelihood of successfully diversifying Craven Cottage.
I have to disagree with this take on the two plans. The new plan gives a lot more time (and space) to non match day income than the previous plan.
Just the views of a long term fan

FulhamStu

Quote from: MJG on December 08, 2017, 09:31:50 AM
Quote from: toshes mate on December 08, 2017, 09:13:36 AM
Quote from: FulhamStu on December 07, 2017, 09:52:47 PM
Are you seriously saying the new stand is a waste of time ?
If you are then, I totally disagree.  Craven Cottage is a beautiful football ground but totally lacks facilities required to compete in the modern era. 
There are a lot of ways that Craven Cottage income could be improved.  I saw some evidence of it in the original Riverside update plan but I don't see it in the new one and I guess that is because the reports didn't reveal any likelihood of successfully diversifying Craven Cottage.
I have to disagree with this take on the two plans. The new plan gives a lot more time (and space) to non match day income than the previous plan.

My understanding is the new stand will include flats, resteraunts, a massive increase in corporate facilities, a pub, bars, open to the public not just match days.   Could easily use for weddings, funerals you name it.  Surely this is all increased revenue.   Sorry if I misread your original post but I really can't see your objection ?   I can understand some people not loving the design, personally think it's fantastic and do agree the current stand is terrible in design terms.  Surely however you can see that it will be a revenue earner, and that extra revenue counts towards balancing FFP which has to be a good thing does it not ?

By the way, the original Al-Fayed design moved the Cottage and totally rebuilt the Stevenage Road stand leaving just the facade, brick work facing out.  I think this was also approved before Mo changed his mind because he thought £100M was too much money.

copthornemike

Actually I am impressed with the way Khan seems to be going for quality rather than looking for the cheapest or quick fix options.

In the long term it is critical that the redesign is done properly. When it is completed the supporters will be living with the outcome longer than Khan and is family are likely to do so - so give him some credit. A poor quality and/or run down stadium is a potential target for developers as we only know too well from our not so recent history. A well designed stadium with modern facilities which still retains the uniqueness of our beautiful ground can only be good for the long term sustainability of the club.

It is apparent to me that poor owners splash the cash on short term vanity issues (expensive players & managers) and interfere with team selection. The better ones balance the necessities of seeking to continually upgrading the playing side with also improving the infrastructure (the ground and training facilities).

We all have legitimate criticisms of how the team went downhill when he took over from Al Fayed (possibly the down turn might have happened anyway) but it seems to me he is one of the better ones and hopefully he has learned the lessons of recent years.

If his legacy is a sustainable club with a modern stadium and training ground, which continues to develope good young players and a team which consistently challenges for promotion from the Championship I will take that - if on the way we can get into the Premiership and importantly stay amd compete there even better.     


toshes mate

Where is the evidence of 'massive' corporate and hospitality revenue increase?  For sure the 'flats' will make a 'healthy' return but even that will not be 'massive' in terms of the kind of money required to improve the balance sheets of an average sized football club.  I certainly want the stadium improved it is that I just don't see this latest design doing anything other than building another stand that will not age gracefully and could even become an eyesore as fashions change.

My understanding of the listings on the JH Stand and the Cottage is that it is their entirety but my understanding may be incorrect.

FulhamStu

Quote from: toshes mate on December 08, 2017, 11:23:44 AM
Where is the evidence of 'massive' corporate and hospitality revenue increase?  For sure the 'flats' will make a 'healthy' return but even that will not be 'massive' in terms of the kind of money required to improve the balance sheets of an average sized football club.  I certainly want the stadium improved it is that I just don't see this latest design doing anything other than building another stand that will not age gracefully and could even become an eyesore as fashions change.

My understanding of the listings on the JH Stand and the Cottage is that it is their entirety but my understanding may be incorrect.

Good ol Tosh, did you watch him by the way, you must be older than me if you did. Try and find the Al-Fayed design, maybe someone can post it.   It was a total re-build of Craven Cottage, it developed all 4 sides and I seem to remember people calling it the space ship design.  The Cottage itself was planned to be taken apart brick by brick and re-built in Bishops Park.  If you are really Toshes mate, you surely must remember ?

Ok, what do you consider massive ?   I guess I could go through the 50 pages in the plans submitted to try and prove my massive comment, again maybe someone can be more specific.  I will come back to you when I can qualify my massive statement in the meantime I am willing to take others words, like Tom G etc that the corporate facilities are much greater than before, would you accept that ?

mrmicawbers

When ,if the Riverside gets developed I for one would consider moving over there. I'm sure it would cost me more in terms of my season ticket but they would have to make it worth my while.I would like to have a decent bars /restaurants were we could go before and after the game to enjoy decent beer/food in a pleasant environment. God knows how much we spend outside the stadium on food and drink which at the moment the club can't provide.I currently sit in Johnny Haynes stand and have 1 or 2 drinks at half time.So for me there is great potential for the club to increase revenue on matchdays as well.


Steven Ageroad

A few years ago Wolves supporters held up placards "F$ck the new stand, buy some players" They built the stand and It's taken a few years but look where they are now.