Are we in danger of....

[Peabody]

Turning into a bunch of whingers? For the second week running, we have found reason to moan about our opponents and it could get worse, as we play Stoke tomorrow evening. It does seem to me that all of us, myself included were complaining to all and sundry about the treatment we received from the referee, the opposing managers and certain players. Perhaps we should just step back a little and allow the team to get justice for us.

[TonyGilroy]

We've had some pretty dismal refereeing performances in the ManU, Wolves and Blackburn games.

Whether we're mentioning it in passing or screaming at the injustice is a matter of personal preference but all 3 referees have been shite.

Saturday's ref was inexperienced and there is a tendency to give them Fulham games presumably because we're considered easy to control but Dowd is an old hand and got plenty wrong against Wolves.

We're here to discuss Fulham and if there's something to complain about let's do it.

[Airfix]

Agree with TonyGilroy.  Isn't part of the role of a football fan on a forum to discuss the relative merits and demerits of the previous game?  Surely that includes the woeful "performances" of those we entrust to judge our games?

[Jimpav]

Not at all.

I think we have some of the best fans in the league in terms of our outlook and attitude.

Everyone on this board is still estatic about our European adventure (Even Lighthouse) - despite us losing in the final.

The majority - although a bit pissed off with Roy walking out on us are still gracious enough to admit that we experienced our most succesfull period under his tenure.

Yes we have been whinging a lot about the last two matches but we have:

A) Played a team that has accumulated 18 yellow cards in 3 games.
B) Had our star player and England striker subject to a horrific injury
C) Conceded a goal as a direct result of our keeper being targeted by a notorius thug
D) Had a referee that missed several major decisions that could have affected the result.

It's just a short term blip that has been caused by the fixture list (not ften that you face the 3 heaviest teams on the bounce).

[The Doctor]

There's more at stake here though.  The very integrity of the game.  Why should we just sit back quietly while teams limited by their own narrow imaginations try to kick us off the park?

If teams like Wolves and Blackburn are celebrated as successful for clogging their way to survival, the Premier League may as well pack up now.  There would be absolute uproar if Diouf treated EVDS or Petr Cech in that manner, and rightly so.  That he did it against Fulham is no less of a crime, just not as newsworthy (although, to Lawrenson's credit he was moaning on about it at length on the radio).  In the absence of anyone else speaking up, we have to make ourselves heard and cobblers to how its perceived

[Lighthouse]

I would be moaning at Fulham if they had set out to stop teams they were playing and received 14 bookings in two matches and Hughes came out with the rubbish Wolves did.

I would be moaning if Dembele had deliberately fouled the Keeper and we scored a goal because of it.

So as a person who never moans or complains I think we have every right to moan and complain if the shoes made from moaning leather fit.

[finnster01]

I also think part of it is on the Big Aussie unfortunately. He is a gentle giant. If he made more of a stink about Diouf's behaviour and perhaps slapped him around a few times, I think it would have stopped early on. By the look on his face it was almost as he couldn't believe the ref wouldn't protect him (which of course the ref should have done).

Something tells me if that old hard German goalie Schumacher (the one that nearly killed Battiston) had been between the sticks Diouf would have thought twice about it and kept his distance... :035:

Here is the video:  Schumacher collision with Battiston 82

[NorthernWhite]

I was at the game on Saturday and after the 1st half I was thinking what's the point of going anymore to watch safety 1st, cynical, anti-football? After seeing Wolves last week and then Blackburn, it was pretty depressing stuff. After the 1st Diouf assualt, Schwarzer was going mad at the lino for ages for not giving the free kick and you knew at that point, more was to come. If the ref had stamped on it then, it would have put an end to it. After Samba scored, a lot of the players and fans didn't celebrate immediately as they all thought a foul would be called.

At least we put the ball on the deck in the 2nd half and could have won it. Fat Sam can do one with his limited brand of the beautiful game.

[jarv]

Agree with Mr. Gilroy. After much discussion about the Wolves game, I watched bits of it again. The problem was not really Wolves but DOWD. He was useless and should be censured (dropped) by the league for his performance. It was compounded by McCarthy's ridiculous comments, just made us more angry.
We need to voice frustration. Supporters actually know an awful lot about football, more than many players, managers and certainly commentators and tv couch potatoes. They need to be heard, after all, without them there is no game.
MS followed instructions against Blackburn. Unfortunatey he had an off day (1st half). He should have battled through the crowd. He most likely would have won several free kicks. He is 6'4"" and an aussie. You expect him to be tough. However, useless referee performance increased frustration because Blackburn, like Wolves, were allowed to get away with it.
Footnote:  McCarthy said he watched the game twice. Not a bad tackle! Fair comment but no mention about the 90 minutes of cheating!

[HatterDon]

I think Mr. Peabody is spot on in asking the question, and Mr. Gilroy is spot on in his response. I really dislike posts that say "Dr. Who is our referee on Saturday, we're screwed." I hated that as a player because I knew that the player who said that had already accepted a loss. I'm also not fond of complaining about referees in terms of their determining the outcome of matches, since I feel that (a) 95% of our dropped points resulting from overturned goals or opponents goals would have meant nothing if we'd played better AND that (b) for every dodgy call against us, there's a corresponding one that benefits us.

The thing is, however, that we're not complaining about opponents and referees because of results. We're undefeated and we're playing good football. I can't remember anyone complaining that a ref had cost us points until the Blackburn match. What I'm seeing complaints about is less-than-talented players thuggish behavior that is sanctioned and defended by their managers and ignored [or, to be fair, missed] by officials. And the reason for these complaints is not so much lost points as it is concern about the physical health and future of our players.

Blaming the officials for our poor form is one thing, blaming them for contributing to the devaluation of the sport is quite another. Performances like Vince Grella's Saturday [and pretty much every time I've watched him play for Blackburn and Aussie] need to be penalized, and that penalty should extend to his manager.

[LBNo11]

...We are the Black & White army, and like all armies, we, as the PBI have the right to moan - if others listen, or take us seriously, that's their problem.

Maybe we are in danger of emulating Blind Arsein Vinegar and his fans, which at least shows we are aspiring to bigger things...

[Terry Tibbs]

Hi, LB.  'Blind Arsein Vinegar' sounds like a blues act........Very apt!!

...We are the Black & White army, and like all armies, we, as the PBI have the right to moan - if others listen, or take us seriously, that's their problem.

Maybe we are in danger of emulating Blind Arsein Vinegar and his fans, which at least shows we are aspiring to bigger things...

[White Noise]

I think our fans have been measured on the whole. We like to see football played as a sport not as a cynical exercise in spoiling and frustrating sport. There is no hypocrisy amongst our fans. Robust players like Michael Brown have found a wall of criticism from their own fans for their worst excesses and plenty have threatened to stay away while supposed thuggery is allowed to reign.

Winning at all costs is the morality of the criminal and the social misfit.

Football and Fulham is about more than that. Its all very well for Lawro to say "well what do you expect of clubs that come up against much superior opposition who they can't hope to compete with but to spoil and frustrate and stymie at every opportunity? If they didn't they would get rolled over by a cricket score."

If the only way to win games is to cheat and to play against the spirit of the game then what is the point? Unless things are done the right way then the rest is anarchy.

What does the 'soul of football' consist of and who protects that soul? If not the fans - then who?

Let's have no more mealy mouthed excuses for this stuff. Its wrong. We all know it is and it goes against what we want for our kids and grandkids and what we want them to inherit from football.

There is a reason that talented players like Robbie Savage are universally disliked and its got nothing to do with Wales!

[Rambling_Syd_Rumpo]

football players are like kids,they will get aways with what they are allowed to get away with,if the ref came down hard early on the tackling in the Wolves game wouldn't have happened-the papers slate the refs,the managers slate the refs,nobody sticks up for them and if it wasn't for the refs we wouldn't have a game!
if all the refs went out this weekend and every shirt pull, body check, and dodgy tackle was penalized and yellow cards were flashed about,that would be the end of it,but as we are all learning,the refs aren't in charge anymore  :dft004:

[finnster01]

What a wonderful result FA's RESPECT campaign produced...

And yet we wonder why people still don't respect the refs?

Lets send them all to SpecSavers to stock up and give them Braille red and yellow cards to play with.