Author Topic: NFR--Subjectivity of Figure Skate Grading  (Read 829 times)

Offline Forever Fulham

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NFR--Subjectivity of Figure Skate Grading
« on: February 12, 2018, 02:06:48 AM »
Anyone else watching the Winter Olympics?  Every couple of years, I tune it and marvel at who gets jobbed and who gets unjustly rewarded in the scoring marks in skating events.  Love the skill and artistry, but hate the scoring.  Things like races are so much more fair.  Some guy swims from here to there and wins and nobody can say he didn't deserve it (unless, of course, he's on the juice).  But skating... Weirdest scoring, arbitrary, drives me nuts.  Just wanted to get that off my chest.  Thank you and good night.

Offline RaySmith

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Re: NFR--Subjectivity of Figure Skate Grading
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2018, 02:15:18 AM »
I suppose the judges have certain objective criteria - like  a certain number of marks for a  particular  move well executed, marks off for  hands touching the ice, etc.

But it's bound to have a subjective aspect, though - how else could they do it?

I don't watch it anyway :)

« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 03:44:58 AM by RaySmith »

Offline HatterDon

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Re: NFR--Subjectivity of Figure Skate Grading
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2018, 02:31:55 AM »
It's figure skating and gymnastics that first soured me on the Olympics. Add to that the presence of professional athletes and the emphasis -- at least over here -- on medal tables and sport nationalism, and THAT's why I'm ignoring this Olympics and will continue to do so for the summer games in two years time.


Offline Southcoastffc

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Re: NFR--Subjectivity of Figure Skate Grading
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2018, 09:43:51 AM »
Agree with the OP - I don't like the 'artistic merit' based events, e.g. figure skating, gymnastics, diving - and don't get me started on dancing horses a.k.a. dressage!

Offline toshes mate

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Re: NFR--Subjectivity of Figure Skate Grading
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2018, 10:15:05 AM »
The 'free' skating events - e.g. ice dance -  have always been more subjective than figure skating since they have no set programme of jumps, spins, and figures.  The scoring for 'free' skating has likewise often seemed hard to follow. 

Offline Holders

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Re: NFR--Subjectivity of Figure Skate Grading
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2018, 10:51:43 AM »
I was watching the snowboarding and thought the same thing. I assume that only "disinterested" judges are allowed to mark particular nationalities.

By the way, does anyone know what the snowboard racing event where about 5 of them come down the same course at the same time trying to elbow each other off is called? I want to watch it - it's as violent as the wheelchair Rugby in the summer games and great fun.

Would appreciate if anyone knows what it's called.


Offline Southcoastffc

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Re: NFR--Subjectivity of Figure Skate Grading
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2018, 11:28:17 AM »
I was watching the snowboarding and thought the same thing. I assume that only "disinterested" judges are allowed to mark particular nationalities.

By the way, does anyone know what the snowboard racing event where about 5 of them come down the same course at the same time trying to elbow each other off is called? I want to watch it - it's as violent as the wheelchair Rugby in the summer games and great fun.

Would appreciate if anyone knows what it's called.
Snowboard Cross - and yes, it's great entertainment!

Offline filham

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Re: NFR--Subjectivity of Figure Skate Grading
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2018, 11:42:18 AM »
Well that is the problem when you mix Art and Sport. Really Figure Skating in my opinion should not be in the Games, it is difficult to separate it from Ballet Dancing and that would not be accepted in the Games.

Offline Holders

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Re: NFR--Subjectivity of Figure Skate Grading
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2018, 11:48:36 AM »
I was watching the snowboarding and thought the same thing. I assume that only "disinterested" judges are allowed to mark particular nationalities.

By the way, does anyone know what the snowboard racing event where about 5 of them come down the same course at the same time trying to elbow each other off is called? I want to watch it - it's as violent as the wheelchair Rugby in the summer games and great fun.

Would appreciate if anyone knows what it's called.
Snowboard Cross - and yes, it's great entertainment!

Thank you. It's Feb 15th and 16th.


Offline Woolly Mammoth

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Re: NFR--Subjectivity of Figure Skate Grading
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2018, 12:38:32 PM »
I support the proposal that the Yard of Ale drinking Contest should be incorporated in the Winter Olympics if the one legged arse kicking contest is to be allowed also.

Offline Woolly Mammoth

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Re: NFR--Subjectivity of Figure Skate Grading
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2018, 05:44:01 AM »
Anyone else watching the Winter Olympics?  Every couple of years, I tune it and marvel at who gets jobbed and who gets unjustly rewarded in the scoring marks in skating events.  Love the skill and artistry, but hate the scoring.  Things like races are so much more fair.  Some guy swims from here to there and wins and nobody can say he didn't deserve it (unless, of course, he's on the juice).  But skating... Weirdest scoring, arbitrary, drives me nuts.  Just wanted to get that off my chest.  Thank you and good night.

I like the way the ice smells.

Offline Carborundum

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Re: NFR--Subjectivity of Figure Skate Grading
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2018, 09:12:53 AM »
Was reflecting on the degree of subjectivity in sports. Ice dancing and gymnastics certainly have a high level, but ski jumping, boxing and even weightlifting have some subjectivity.  Umpires decisions in cricket, referee decisions in football and, as we saw on Saturday rugby can all be pivotal.  So it’s not really a clear cut thing to me.  But the Ice dancing does give a huge amount of opportunity to marvel at physical skill and athleticism. 

Veering slightly off topic, on Sunday we happened to flick between the Olympic skating and the ITV celebrity version.  The gulf in ability is staggering.  Then I reflected on how much better those celebrities are on ice than me.  Another chasm.  So in the spirit of humility, I’d suggest that the Olympic skaters deserve their time in the spotlight. May the best skaters win.


Offline cmg

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Re: NFR--Subjectivity of Figure Skate Grading
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2018, 10:53:08 AM »
I appreciate the skills and athleticism involved in any sport. And I admire ice-bound performers despite a prejudice born from once having had a girlfriend who was an excellent skater, which meant I had regularly to enjoy the humiliation of her pirouetting around me as I stumbled around and hit the deck at Richmond and Streatham (and that was just in the bar afterwards).
However I now think that all sports that depend totally on judges' scores should have no part n the Olympics. This would, unfortunately, have to include boxing, which has, despite constant tinkering with the scoring system, seen a constant stream of ludicrous judges' decisions over the years.

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Re: NFR--Subjectivity of Figure Skate Grading
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2018, 11:09:18 AM »
Some good reasoning above but I think we have to accept subjective judging with all its potential for bias. Otherwise Graeco-Roman wrestling wouldn't have been allowed on Mount Olympus.

After all, if quoits, riding penny-farthings, an old woman's race and wheelbarrow races have featured why not figure skating?

Offline Lighthouse

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Re: NFR--Subjectivity of Figure Skate Grading
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2018, 07:37:04 PM »
The problem in any sport is the opinion of the referee. Our GB Short speed thingy skater fell again and left in tears a few days back because she had her supporting hand pushed away from her by the skater behind her but this wasn't a foul apparently.

However I agree that sport that relies on artistic opinion is always going to be open to suggestion. I remember a ballroom dancer telling me the eventual winners in a competition not because they were the best but one judge used to coach them.  I watch the sport but no longer get quite so involved. Although I still find myself hissing and moaning when the Curling is on and somebody makes a mistake.


Offline sunburywhite

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Re: NFR--Subjectivity of Figure Skate Grading
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2018, 07:48:52 PM »
No, sorry, I am busy watching paint dry

Offline Woolly Mammoth

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Re: NFR--Subjectivity of Figure Skate Grading
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2018, 02:48:03 AM »
Beware Wet Paint.

Offline Forever Fulham

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Re: NFR--Subjectivity of Figure Skate Grading
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2018, 07:30:09 AM »
A long time ago, can't remember the year, German Katarina Witt (sp?) wiggled and flirted in front of the male Olympic judges and somehow scored higher than American Debbi Thomas.  That was my introduction into the weirdness that is skating scoring. 

Offline Woolly Mammoth

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Re: NFR--Subjectivity of Figure Skate Grading
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2018, 09:07:28 AM »
It’s a carve up.

Offline cmg

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Re: NFR--Subjectivity of Figure Skate Grading
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2018, 09:15:49 AM »
A long time ago, can't remember the year, German Katarina Witt (sp?) wiggled and flirted in front of the male Olympic judges and somehow scored higher than American Debbi Thomas.  That was my introduction into the weirdness that is skating scoring. 

Anyone who fancied Katarina Witt was a pretty good judge I would say!