Author Topic: Can anybody make a realistic case for 2nd ? 🤔  (Read 4501 times)

Offline filham

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Re: Can anybody make a realistic case for 2nd ? 🤔
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2018, 07:05:10 PM »
If the remaining 14 games go like the last 14 then the final table will look like this

Wolves 103pts
Derby 87
Fulham 87
Villa 86
Cardiff 85



F*** me - if that's the outcome I'm not sure the old ticker will stand it
Just imagine in most of those games we would be hanging on by an odd goal in the last 10 minutes, finger nails are in for a hard time.

Offline Forever Fulham

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Re: Can anybody make a realistic case for 2nd ? 🤔
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2018, 07:47:54 PM »
How long will those two key players for Villa remain out of their lineup?

Offline Whitesideup

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Re: Can anybody make a realistic case for 2nd ? 🤔
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2018, 08:15:01 PM »
Cardiff have just been very very lucky picking up points when they don't deserve them. They are not a good side. A couple of defeats and they will slide into the oblivion they fully deserve. 


Offline Statto

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Re: Can anybody make a realistic case for 2nd ? 🤔
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2018, 08:36:52 PM »
Cardiff have just been very very lucky picking up points when they don't deserve them. They are not a good side. A couple of defeats and they will slide into the oblivion they fully deserve. 

typical warnock team
it's pointless getting promoted with him as your manager because you're never going to stay up
if i was the cardiff owner and cardiff won the league i'd still sack warnock at the end of the season

Offline Riversider

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Re: Can anybody make a realistic case for 2nd ? 🤔
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2018, 08:44:08 PM »
I meant to include in my original piece the fact that we've got to play 3 London derbies still, something that Cardiff don't have to deal with, two of which Millwall away and Brentford at home will be very testing games,
If we can't reach 2nd then it's important that we secure 3rd or 4th so that we have the home leg second.

Offline Statto

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Re: Can anybody make a realistic case for 2nd ? 🤔
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2018, 08:46:35 PM »
I meant to include in my original piece the fact that we've got to play 3 London derbies still, something that Cardiff don't have to deal with, two of which Millwall away and Brentford at home will be very testing games,
If we can't reach 2nd then it's important that we secure 3rd or 4th so that we have the home leg second.

yes i bet all the teams around us are glad they don't have to face such obviously insurmountable challenges as millwall away and brentford at home
[sarcastic voice]


Offline itombomb

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Re: Can anybody make a realistic case for 2nd ? 🤔
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2018, 09:21:46 PM »
16 games ago (after 16 games) we were 14 points behind Sheffield united, 12 behind Cardiff & 11 behind Bristol City. Now we're +6, -6 and +2 against those same teams.

Cardiff aren't going to keep this up, they aren't good enough and will fall back.

Derby and Villa are the problems. If we lost on Sat I would have given us no chance of making up those 10 points - as it is, it is doable but will be very tough. Don't think we can afford to lose to Derby either.

Offline davew

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Re: Can anybody make a realistic case for 2nd ? 🤔
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2018, 10:08:08 PM »
Having the three additions we signed in January has helped change the dynamics of the team. We are far better balanced, and are more or less at full strength. Beating Villa at the weekend was a hell of a scalp mentally and physically and taking their unbeaten run off of them has made everyone else sit up and realise we are the real deal.
Games are coming thick and fast, not just for us but for everybody.
It’s going to be a hell of a scrap, it’s good to be playing both Bristol City and Wolves this week, because we win, they will be pointless, and we are gaining ground on second place, and securing our position in the play offs.
Nobody will want to play us, that is for sure.
So we have a fighting chance of second, and at the same time secure our play off position.
So my feelings are that we have a solid outfit of a minimum of 20 quality players plus, who can all play football, and have bought into the way Jok wishes us to play. No passengers, no obvious weak links to worry about undualey.
I haven’t felt so confident in our squad for a long time.
So my answer to the question by the OP, yes we can catch second place, if anyone can, we can.
We haven't seen the player who could be the best of the 3 signings (Christie), though if he is nearly as good as Targett, well exciting is the best word I can use, orgasmic might take a little longer!

Offline The Rock

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Re: Can anybody make a realistic case for 2nd ? 🤔
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2018, 10:13:10 PM »
Of course. We don't even put TC on the pitch until it means big business. We're only in 3rd gear.



Offline Riversider

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Re: Can anybody make a realistic case for 2nd ? 🤔
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2018, 11:57:36 PM »
I meant to include in my original piece the fact that we've got to play 3 London derbies still, something that Cardiff don't have to deal with, two of which Millwall away and Brentford at home will be very testing games,
If we can't reach 2nd then it's important that we secure 3rd or 4th so that we have the home leg second.

yes i bet all the teams around us are glad they don't have to face such obviously insurmountable challenges as millwall away and brentford at home
[sarcastic voice]

Another stupid snidey comment from Saddo, maybe you can tell us all our recent home record v Brentford,
If you knew anything at all about Fulham Football Club you would know its not very good and certainly not a game to be taken for granted.

Online Woolly Mammoth

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Re: Can anybody make a realistic case for 2nd ? 🤔
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2018, 02:10:03 AM »
Both the London Derbys v Millwall and Brentford will be tough and neither will be a picnic, due to the nature of the rivalry. That goes without saying, and there will no prisoners taken. Anyone thinking they will be pushovers need a check up from the neck up.

Offline One Martin Thomas

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Re: Can anybody make a realistic case for 2nd ? 🤔
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2018, 07:13:21 AM »
14 games left. If we win them all we finish on 97 points. Should end up as Champions.


That would be my case too. Simple maths and we're champions 😄


Offline toshes mate

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Re: Can anybody make a realistic case for 2nd ? 🤔
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2018, 07:33:16 AM »
I really do feel that if Jokanovic regrets one thing (under his control and influence) to get away from him last season it would have been the mental discipline of the whole squad and not just the ones selected on match days.  In the play-off semis we really didn't do ourselves justice because poor refereeing shouldn't have mattered.   We were better than those performances and a key factor was our coaches inability to look deeper than his preferred starters. 

Thanks to the incoming players in January and those of the summer who have improved sufficiently to warrant consideration for selection we are stronger than we were and that is reflected in performances over the last few months.   There seems to be, through my eyes at least, a greater team ethic with much more communication running through the players.  They appear to be bonded to a common cause and that cause is not to make the same mistakes this season as we did last.  Of course 'new' mistakes can appear but so far as I am concerned we should be looking to be better against City on Wednesday evening than we were against Villa on Saturday. 

As long as we concentrate on improving and taking one game at a time then we can get to the highest position this team is capable of.  It will not matter what other teams do or don't do if we consistently do better than them.   Whether it gives us a top two slot or not remains to be seen but our target should be the highest points total we can achieve.  All our games can be won without exception.
 

You make some good points. To some extent SJ's reluctance to look beyond his preferred starters may have stemmed from his lack of involvement in their recruitment and either lack of confidence or, as some have suggested, wish to make a point. I don't know for certain but I'm pretty sure that after January (recruitment and clear-out) he's now happier with the spread of players in the named squad and so shouldn't have that same reluctance.
I think there are two sides to the sword SJ used last season.  IMO he is a coach who expects players to motivate themselves into contention (which successfully worked with Johansen for example) and I don't, for one moment, subscribe to those who claim he is stubborn about selection.  I think he wants to have his hand forced into selection by the player reaching his expectation levels and some players he has had to deal with just haven't been up for it.  I think he has high expectations, and why not, but I also get the impression he has sharp eyes for what he is looking for players to do on the pitch (hence the Fonte saga) and selecting those who deliver to the team ethic to a reasonable quality (as he did last season with Martin for example).  But I think he may have underestimated the importance of mental toughness and squad unity last season especially at the sharp end of business in the play offs. 

I think what Targett and Mitrovic have demonstrated is what SJ can do with quality that comes pre-packaged rather than having to be squeezed out of players who have not had the best of journeys getting to FFC.  I think we will also see Cyrus Christie featuring to the same standard in the next few weeks depending upon results or if Fredericks tires.   

What I see at the moment is a much tougher team ethic and personality suggesting the squad now sees failure as being anything less than a stab at automatic promotion rather than just play off security.   

Offline MJG

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Re: Can anybody make a realistic case for 2nd ? 🤔
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2018, 07:51:28 AM »
I can make a case for it:

If you look at the remaining fixtures between all the top 8 and have Fulham winning all these hard games and the other 'inter league' games going our way you can have a table like this




Meaning we would need about another 10 points from the other 9 games to get 2nd.


If only it was that easy.

Offline FulhamStu

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Re: Can anybody make a realistic case for 2nd ? 🤔
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2018, 08:08:35 AM »
2nd place is unlikely but not impossible.  We would need all our key players to remain fit, incl Cairney, having just read he still has some pain I am doubtful of that.   We will also need to a bit of luck to go our way and I am not sure that will happen as we are due some against us after a few breaks recently.

The main thing however is to maintain our form, especially not conceding many goals.  We will always score so if we can keep clean sheets it’s definately possible.


Offline MJG

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Re: Can anybody make a realistic case for 2nd ? 🤔
« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2018, 08:51:03 AM »
2nd place is unlikely but not impossible.  We would need all our key players to remain fit, incl Cairney, having just read he still has some pain I am doubtful of that.   We will also need to a bit of luck to go our way and I am not sure that will happen as we are due some against us after a few breaks recently.

The main thing however is to maintain our form, especially not conceding many goals.  We will always score so if we can keep clean sheets it’s definately possible.
I'm surprised so many spoke about Cairney as looking fit on Saturday as he looked cautious at times to me.
When he received the ball his inclination was to see if he had a player on him and then move with it slowly away. Almost as if he knows he hasn't got that burst of running to get away from a player. So he played within himself for me. But of course still did great.

Offline Holders

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Re: Can anybody make a realistic case for 2nd ? 🤔
« Reply #36 on: February 20, 2018, 09:05:49 AM »
I really do feel that if Jokanovic regrets one thing (under his control and influence) to get away from him last season it would have been the mental discipline of the whole squad and not just the ones selected on match days.  In the play-off semis we really didn't do ourselves justice because poor refereeing shouldn't have mattered.   We were better than those performances and a key factor was our coaches inability to look deeper than his preferred starters. 

Thanks to the incoming players in January and those of the summer who have improved sufficiently to warrant consideration for selection we are stronger than we were and that is reflected in performances over the last few months.   There seems to be, through my eyes at least, a greater team ethic with much more communication running through the players.  They appear to be bonded to a common cause and that cause is not to make the same mistakes this season as we did last.  Of course 'new' mistakes can appear but so far as I am concerned we should be looking to be better against City on Wednesday evening than we were against Villa on Saturday. 

As long as we concentrate on improving and taking one game at a time then we can get to the highest position this team is capable of.  It will not matter what other teams do or don't do if we consistently do better than them.   Whether it gives us a top two slot or not remains to be seen but our target should be the highest points total we can achieve.  All our games can be won without exception.
 

You make some good points. To some extent SJ's reluctance to look beyond his preferred starters may have stemmed from his lack of involvement in their recruitment and either lack of confidence or, as some have suggested, wish to make a point. I don't know for certain but I'm pretty sure that after January (recruitment and clear-out) he's now happier with the spread of players in the named squad and so shouldn't have that same reluctance.
I think there are two sides to the sword SJ used last season.  IMO he is a coach who expects players to motivate themselves into contention (which successfully worked with Johansen for example) and I don't, for one moment, subscribe to those who claim he is stubborn about selection.  I think he wants to have his hand forced into selection by the player reaching his expectation levels and some players he has had to deal with just haven't been up for it.  I think he has high expectations, and why not, but I also get the impression he has sharp eyes for what he is looking for players to do on the pitch (hence the Fonte saga) and selecting those who deliver to the team ethic to a reasonable quality (as he did last season with Martin for example).  But I think he may have underestimated the importance of mental toughness and squad unity last season especially at the sharp end of business in the play offs. 

I think what Targett and Mitrovic have demonstrated is what SJ can do with quality that comes pre-packaged rather than having to be squeezed out of players who have not had the best of journeys getting to FFC.  I think we will also see Cyrus Christie featuring to the same standard in the next few weeks depending upon results or if Fredericks tires.   

What I see at the moment is a much tougher team ethic and personality suggesting the squad now sees failure as being anything less than a stab at automatic promotion rather than just play off security.   


Again, good points.

I wondered if our comparative loss of form in the early part of the season, compared to last year, was in some part due to some loss of team "togetherness" following personnel changes and that has now been recovered. Playing to the 95th minute bears it out that it's there.

That said, Targett and Mitro seem to have fitted like a glove.

Offline HamsterWheel

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Re: Can anybody make a realistic case for 2nd ? 🤔
« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2018, 12:30:18 PM »
Back in early January I thought we'd started looking good so stuck £25 on a Top 2 finish at 30-1.
Now 6.4-1 so I've laid off part of my bet and can't lose anything, but will win enough to pay for next year's season ticket if we do get Top 2.
I love the way we're playing - just dominate the whole match and the goals and wins will come. And with a Plan B from a much better bench we now can sort out some of the lower aggressive bus-parking teams that previously we'd struggle against.
Even better, we've got several players now who could do a job for us in the Prem, so fingers crossed we get there!

Offline toshes mate

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Re: Can anybody make a realistic case for 2nd ? 🤔
« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2018, 02:21:29 PM »
I really do feel that if Jokanovic regrets one thing (under his control and influence) to get away from him last season it would have been the mental discipline of the whole squad and not just the ones selected on match days.  In the play-off semis we really didn't do ourselves justice because poor refereeing shouldn't have mattered.   We were better than those performances and a key factor was our coaches inability to look deeper than his preferred starters. 

Thanks to the incoming players in January and those of the summer who have improved sufficiently to warrant consideration for selection we are stronger than we were and that is reflected in performances over the last few months.   There seems to be, through my eyes at least, a greater team ethic with much more communication running through the players.  They appear to be bonded to a common cause and that cause is not to make the same mistakes this season as we did last.  Of course 'new' mistakes can appear but so far as I am concerned we should be looking to be better against City on Wednesday evening than we were against Villa on Saturday. 

As long as we concentrate on improving and taking one game at a time then we can get to the highest position this team is capable of.  It will not matter what other teams do or don't do if we consistently do better than them.   Whether it gives us a top two slot or not remains to be seen but our target should be the highest points total we can achieve.  All our games can be won without exception.
 

You make some good points. To some extent SJ's reluctance to look beyond his preferred starters may have stemmed from his lack of involvement in their recruitment and either lack of confidence or, as some have suggested, wish to make a point. I don't know for certain but I'm pretty sure that after January (recruitment and clear-out) he's now happier with the spread of players in the named squad and so shouldn't have that same reluctance.
I think there are two sides to the sword SJ used last season.  IMO he is a coach who expects players to motivate themselves into contention (which successfully worked with Johansen for example) and I don't, for one moment, subscribe to those who claim he is stubborn about selection.  I think he wants to have his hand forced into selection by the player reaching his expectation levels and some players he has had to deal with just haven't been up for it.  I think he has high expectations, and why not, but I also get the impression he has sharp eyes for what he is looking for players to do on the pitch (hence the Fonte saga) and selecting those who deliver to the team ethic to a reasonable quality (as he did last season with Martin for example).  But I think he may have underestimated the importance of mental toughness and squad unity last season especially at the sharp end of business in the play offs. 

I think what Targett and Mitrovic have demonstrated is what SJ can do with quality that comes pre-packaged rather than having to be squeezed out of players who have not had the best of journeys getting to FFC.  I think we will also see Cyrus Christie featuring to the same standard in the next few weeks depending upon results or if Fredericks tires.   

What I see at the moment is a much tougher team ethic and personality suggesting the squad now sees failure as being anything less than a stab at automatic promotion rather than just play off security.   


Again, good points.

I wondered if our comparative loss of form in the early part of the season, compared to last year, was in some part due to some loss of team "togetherness" following personnel changes and that has now been recovered. Playing to the 95th minute bears it out that it's there.

That said, Targett and Mitro seem to have fitted like a glove.
I agree on both points.  Last season's main starting team was largely settled except for injuries and suspensions and the midfield very settled.  This season we have had all manner of disruptions through injury and the aforementioned pre-season fiasco and no settled core midfield without a pacey left wing back to allow RS to play further forward.  Targett must have been like a gift to SJ the way he has made the position his own and has also asked questions of RS to adapt to probably even greater freedom and license to do his thing from midfield.  Mitrovic has already done enough to convince me he is going to be much more dangerous as the team bonds together.   I am also looking forward to seeing the options Christie brings to the table.

I was thinking the team ethic may have changed through greater psychological input on the training ground - demanding more because there is now real competition for starting places.  There just seems to be greater belief running through the team.

Offline Riversider

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Re: Can anybody make a realistic case for 2nd ? 🤔
« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2018, 04:46:12 PM »
These are the remaining fixtures of Cardiff,
Home- Bristol c, Barnsley, Birmingham, Burton, Wolves, Forest, Reading
Away- Ipswich, Brentford, Derby, Sheff U, Aston V, Norwich, Hull

Just as a rough guide to see what were up against, if we assume/hope they lose to Wolves, Derby,Sheff U and Villa,
And draw against Ipswich, Brentford, and Norwich,
And win the rest,
They would then be on 85 points with a better goal difference, this shows the size of our task and why my thoughts are currently with the play offs, incidentally I work with a few Brentford supporters who have all been ribbing me about Brentford playing us in the play offs ! Could it happen ? 😰