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Play offs

Started by Andy S, February 20, 2018, 11:05:48 AM

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Andy S

The play offs may be good for TVs but they are awful for the clubs and supporters. Great if you win but a real downer if you lose. If you lose summer is totally ruined! I hope we can make it to the runner up position. I will be happy then

filham

The play offs are magnificent because they keep the top half of the league alive almost until the end of the season.
Of course it is always tough on the club that finished third if they lose out in the play offs but they have an equal opportunity to those finishing 4th, 5th and 6th.

Southcoastffc

 
Quote from: Andy S on February 20, 2018, 11:05:48 AM
The play offs may be good for TVs but they are awful for the clubs and supporters. Great if you win but a real downer if you lose. If you lose summer is totally ruined! I hope we can make it to the runner up position. I will be happy then
Well yes, but in a way aren't you just arguing against the notion of competition?
The world is made up of electrons, protons, neurons, possibly muons and, definitely, morons.


Carborundum

Play off final date 26 May.   World Cup opening match 14 June.  World Cup final 15 July.  Premier league start date 11 August.  Championship start date presumably no later than 11 August.

Seems like a recipe for a good summer.

Andy S

No I don't think I am. The competition is the league. So why change it into a cup competition at the end? The further down the league clubs finish the less likely they will survive when they go up. Having said that last years promoted clubs have done well as indeed they did when we last got promoted. But it does always seem a shame to me when the third placed club as Reading were last year do not go up. Cannot keep their best players and follow up with a poor season

Wolf

There have been play-offs in English football since 1986-87. They have been a massive success in keeping teams' seasons alive and supporters' interest and attendance.

At the start of the season every team knows which is an automatic promotion place and which is a play-off place.
Likes: Fulham
Hates: the Hounslow maggots


Southcoastffc

Quote from: Andy S on February 20, 2018, 12:13:58 PM
No I don't think I am. The competition is the league. So why change it into a cup competition at the end? The further down the league clubs finish the less likely they will survive when they go up. Having said that last years promoted clubs have done well as indeed they did when we last got promoted. But it does always seem a shame to me when the third placed club as Reading were last year do not go up. Cannot keep their best players and follow up with a poor season
I think that changing it into a cup competition at the end is entirely a good thing - look at the Championship now.  Wolves seem home and dry and perhaps 9 others (Brentford in 10th are 6 pts off playoffs) vying for 2 other promotion places.  It's going to be exciting all the way to the wire - and beyond.
The world is made up of electrons, protons, neurons, possibly muons and, definitely, morons.

F(f)CUK

We have seen that the playoffs are a lottery, as we along with Sheff Wed were tipped to be the best teams.  The problem is that with 5 starters being on loan and potentially our two stars leaving if not promoted, we have to rebuild our team again next year.  Go up and we may just about afford to have a stable team.

Twig

As a bit of a purist I have always been against playoffs.  Teams play an entire season to sort out which are the top three (we all trot out the old adage that at season end the table doesn't lie).  We may benefit from play offs this year (or perhaps we will be the third pace finishers? But it won't change my view.


BedsFFC

Bit of a tangent but there are two negative things that can happen with our remaining games. Obviosuly, one is we lose a bit of form and someone has a real good run and we lose out to 6th spot. Could happen.

The other (lesser) negative and more likely is that we get in a real race for 2nd spot and go toe-to-toe with Cardiff & Villa until the final game of the season and then lose out and then go into the playoffs a bit deflated.

So, on that basis, I'd like to choose automatic promotion please with us winning every game between now and the end of the season. Thanks in advance football gods

toshes mate

Quote from: Southcoastffc on February 20, 2018, 12:30:46 PM
Quote from: Andy S on February 20, 2018, 12:13:58 PM
No I don't think I am. The competition is the league. So why change it into a cup competition at the end? The further down the league clubs finish the less likely they will survive when they go up. Having said that last years promoted clubs have done well as indeed they did when we last got promoted. But it does always seem a shame to me when the third placed club as Reading were last year do not go up. Cannot keep their best players and follow up with a poor season
I think that changing it into a cup competition at the end is entirely a good thing - look at the Championship now.  Wolves seem home and dry and perhaps 9 others (Brentford in 10th are 6 pts off playoffs) vying for 2 other promotion places.  It's going to be exciting all the way to the wire - and beyond.
I believe both arguments have merit.  Say only the bottom club was automatically relegated from PL and the next four lowest placed teams were matched against the teams occupying places 2,3,4,and 5 in the final Championship table, 19th in PL playing 2nd in Championship, and so on, in a straight knock-out competition with home advantage to the Championship sides.  You'd still get the battle to win the league plus a play off competition  to determine up to four other PL places.  The system as it is is okay but I still believe there are better options if you really want to keep the season alive for as long as possible.     

RaySmith

Exciting if  you're not a fan of the teams involved, nerve shredding if you are, and  very  gut wrenching if you  don't make it, but it does at least give  the teams who finish between  second and sixth a chance of  getting into the Prem.

So every team wants to make the play-offs, if they  can't get automatic promotion, but if you are in them  it is an emotional roller-coaster - but that's sport for you, I suppose.


Andy S

The stakes of promotion are so high now it seems strange that a lottery called the playoffs is allowed. It also seems strange to me that the team that is the runner up just gets a medal each yet the playoff winner receives a cup. It can also be decided by a dodgy refereeing decision. But hey I think this is our season so I won't worry too much

Southcoastffc

Quote from: toshes mate on February 20, 2018, 01:50:31 PM
Quote from: Southcoastffc on February 20, 2018, 12:30:46 PM
Quote from: Andy S on February 20, 2018, 12:13:58 PM
No I don't think I am. The competition is the league. So why change it into a cup competition at the end? The further down the league clubs finish the less likely they will survive when they go up. Having said that last years promoted clubs have done well as indeed they did when we last got promoted. But it does always seem a shame to me when the third placed club as Reading were last year do not go up. Cannot keep their best players and follow up with a poor season
I think that changing it into a cup competition at the end is entirely a good thing - look at the Championship now.  Wolves seem home and dry and perhaps 9 others (Brentford in 10th are 6 pts off playoffs) vying for 2 other promotion places.  It's going to be exciting all the way to the wire - and beyond.
I believe both arguments have merit.  Say only the bottom club was automatically relegated from PL and the next four lowest placed teams were matched against the teams occupying places 2,3,4,and 5 in the final Championship table, 19th in PL playing 2nd in Championship, and so on, in a straight knock-out competition with home advantage to the Championship sides.  You'd still get the battle to win the league plus a play off competition  to determine up to four other PL places.  The system as it is is okay but I still believe there are better options if you really want to keep the season alive for as long as possible.     
I'd vote for that format - bottom Prem v top Champ and include leagues 1 and 2 in the same way.
The world is made up of electrons, protons, neurons, possibly muons and, definitely, morons.

Arthur

Quote from: Andy S on February 20, 2018, 12:13:58 PM
But it does always seem a shame to me when the third placed club as Reading were last year do not go up.

I would say it's not that straightforward.

As Wolf says, teams know that third place is not an automatic spot. They act accordingly.

Last season, in mid-April, Huddersfield were third and the only Club who could oust Newcastle from second spot. That possibility ended with their home loss to us. The following weekend, against Birmingham, their manager rested almost his entire first XI for a game that they lost. Clearly, he wouldn't have done so had third place meant automatic promotion.

It can't be assumed that Reading would have finished third if the 'old rules' regarding promotion had applied.


YankeeJim

Quote from: Andy S on February 20, 2018, 03:33:58 PM
The stakes of promotion are so high now it seems strange that a lottery called the playoffs is allowed. It also seems strange to me that the team that is the runner up just gets a medal each yet the playoff winner receives a cup. It can also be decided by a dodgy refereeing decision. But hey I think this is our season so I won't worry too much

The ref can decide any match, 2 plays 3 on the last day and he blows a call, the wrong team moves up. Such is life.
Its not that I could and others couldn't.
Its that I did and others didn't.

filham

Take away the play offs and the promoted third placed club could be promoted due to finishing a point or even a goal better better than the fourth placed club, that in itself is a lottery and a play off arrangement seems more sensible when margins are so close.

Southcoastffc

Quote from: YankeeJim on February 20, 2018, 05:02:36 PM
Quote from: Andy S on February 20, 2018, 03:33:58 PM
The stakes of promotion are so high now it seems strange that a lottery called the playoffs is allowed. It also seems strange to me that the team that is the runner up just gets a medal each yet the playoff winner receives a cup. It can also be decided by a dodgy refereeing decision. But hey I think this is our season so I won't worry too much

The ref can decide any match, 2 plays 3 on the last day and he blows a call, the wrong team moves up. Such is life.
Indeed.    Reading v Fulham 18 May 2017  -  Kermorgant and Kalas battled for the ball down the left-edge of the area and following a push by the striker on the defender, Kalas deflected the ball away with his hand. The penalty was awarded and Kermorgant fired home his 19th and most important strike of the campaign.   
The world is made up of electrons, protons, neurons, possibly muons and, definitely, morons.


gezkc

Quote from: toshes mate on February 20, 2018, 01:50:31 PM
I believe both arguments have merit.  Say only the bottom club was automatically relegated from PL and the next four lowest placed teams were matched against the teams occupying places 2,3,4,and 5 in the final Championship table, 19th in PL playing 2nd in Championship, and so on, in a straight knock-out competition with home advantage to the Championship sides.  You'd still get the battle to win the league plus a play off competition  to determine up to four other PL places.  The system as it is is okay but I still believe there are better options if you really want to keep the season alive for as long as possible.     

I'm not sure any clubs would get promoted from the Championship if they did adopt that format - there's a huge difference in quality between even the bottom of the Premier League and the top of the Championship - why else do clubs need to invest so heavily when they do go up?

Also, can you imagine playing a one off knock out game with that much hinging on it?! Missing out on promotion is bad enough, but to be relegated on the basis of one match would be absolutely soul destroying for the fans. A recipe for crowd trouble for sure.

MJG

Quote from: Statto on February 20, 2018, 05:16:18 PM
Quote from: YankeeJim on February 20, 2018, 05:02:36 PM
Quote from: Andy S on February 20, 2018, 03:33:58 PM
The stakes of promotion are so high now it seems strange that a lottery called the playoffs is allowed. It also seems strange to me that the team that is the runner up just gets a medal each yet the playoff winner receives a cup. It can also be decided by a dodgy refereeing decision. But hey I think this is our season so I won't worry too much

The ref can decide any match, 2 plays 3 on the last day and he blows a call, the wrong team moves up. Such is life.

Exactly

I expect the difference between 3rd and 4th is often less than 3pts, meaning in any case it's decided by one match which in turn could be decided by a single decision or moment

Ultimately you can see on this thread that views diverge which i assume is why we have a hybrid system - two out of three promotion spots are decided by final league position, to keep happy those who don't like the play-off system. Only the third remaining place is decided by play-off, to provide a little extra excitement for those who want it
I had to look at the gap between 3rd and 4th and the breakdown on gaps over last 16 seasons has been...
4
6
1
5
2
10
0
3
3
1
8
1
9
5
1
9
Avg gap of 4.25 points
Just the views of a long term fan