How many players have left and become bit part players?

[Andy S]

When you look at players like Dembele and Patrick Roberts that went to Man City I wonder if they look back with regret? Yes they went to bigger well known clubs and started out brightly enough but they are now forgotten men. Celtic will only ever provide a few champions league games and Man City like other big clubs will eventually discard Roberts. You have to wonder if they would have been better off staying at Fulham where they learnt their trade a while longer before moving on. Ryan Sessignon on the other hand seems to have his head screwed on and has stayed put. Spurs and the Media cannot wait to get him but he has opted to stay with us. Has his value gone down? No. Will he eventually go to a bigger club? He probably will as there are no longer any one club players any more

[sunburywhite]

Emerson Hyndman

I rest my case , thank you and good night

[aaronmcguigan]

I don't honestly see how you come to the conclusion that Dembele is somehow a forgotten man. Celtic picked up a freebie more or less from us, a player they will undoubtedly make a profit from. 45 goals in 80 games no matter the opposition is a healthy return. He's still a wanted man by many teams. to say "Celtic will only ever  provide a few CL games " when you're comparing the logic of leaving us for another team, when we couldn't even dream of offering that to our players.

Dembele when he's in his 30s and over the hill won't think back and rue having to play village teams, he'll look back at the amount of trophies and goals he's scored.

On Roberts' move, we got the money, they got a young English talent and he got to train with world class players. He'll get a move to another team and he'll be sorted while still having a decade before he's over the hill.

We lost those 2 when we were going nowhere. No doubt Sess would make the same decision as them if he was playing the way he was back in 2014/15/16. We had Felix and Kit, we were 19th and 20th in second division. Why wouldn't you look for pastures new. It's only since Slav has made his mark on the team, combining great coaching , great signings and opening up avenues for youth to earn the right to play games rather than give them games due to poor squad acquisitions like Felix and Kit. This has ensured continuous improvement and increased aspirations where players WANT to play for the team and are proud of it, and you can't blame Roberts and Dembele for getting out when you consider the tripe they had to play with and play under.

[res]

When you look at players like Dembele and Patrick Roberts that went to Man City I wonder if they look back with regret? Yes they went to bigger well known clubs and started out brightly enough but they are now forgotten men. Celtic will only ever provide a few champions league games and Man City like other big clubs will eventually discard Roberts. You have to wonder if they would have been better off staying at Fulham where they learnt their trade a while longer before moving on. Ryan Sessignon on the other hand seems to have his head screwed on and has stayed put. Spurs and the Media cannot wait to get him but he has opted to stay with us. Has his value gone down? No. Will he eventually go to a bigger club? He probably will as there are no longer any one club players any more

Dembele? I know that it's only the Scottish Premiership, but you can hardly say that he's off the radar now. You can say that about Pat Roberts and Hyndman and, more generally, players who have left in the past for "better" pastures but would have done better if they had stayed (Sean Davis, Steed, Dempsey)

[Twig]

I don't honestly see how you come to the conclusion that Dembele is somehow a forgotten man.

Dembele? I know that it's only the Scottish Premiership, but you can hardly say that he's off the radar now.

With Dembele it depends who you are benchmarking him against IMO.

He is 22 in a few months. If you compare him to the other Dembele (Ousmane), he was signed by Dortmund aged 18/19 and then by Barcelona for EUR 150m aged 20. He also has 7 caps aged 20, whereas Moussa still has none. So it's arguably already clear that Moussa will never be in that top bracket of world class players.

If you look at Sessegnon, by all reports I've seen he's perceived to be the best 17 year old in the world, so the expectation at this stage must be that he can go on to be in that very top bracket. if Moussa Dembele ever had the same expectations, then clearly he's failed to live up to them.

Personally I'm on record on here saying a year or two ago that I thought a more reasonable target for Moussa was to be the next Christian Benteke, or someone around that level. Villa bought him to the premiership aged 22.

But it will be difficult for Moussa to achieve even Benteke's level of success if he doesn't move to one of the big four leagues this summer. 

I pretty much agree.  Don't think you can call Dembele forgotten but this summer or next at the latest he needs a move into a big league, probably for a solid mid level club.

[Arthur]

It is my opinion that Pat Roberts will eventually play regularly in the Premier League - probably not with Manchester City, however.

[HatterDon]

I don't understand this necessity to trash players who left us. I saw this with Moussa Dembele the first and Dempsey. The fact is that Celtic's Dembele has only increased his worth in the market with his play. Roberts has shown his skills while living with the discipline he was never forced to experience wit us. Hyndman is regrettable. He's wasted two seasons so far and I don't understand Bournemouth's refusal to loan him out.

But the thing is, why do so many of us rejoice in real or imagined sufferings of players who moved on in their career? If we have nothing but players that are good enough to play for us and have no interest in anything else in their career, WE will never achieve anything but continued lower-level mediocrity.

Yeah, I don't understand it.

[colinwhite]

Agree with Newrys sensible post. Roberts is not suited to the Championship  and has done well for Celtic when not injured. Its always easy to be wise after the event. In Dembelles case it all depends on how hard he is prepared to work on the pitch, because he still dosen put the work in or seem to understand what that has to do with him.
Both players are the types that are going to be effected  by the status of the team they play in .Celtic are so much better than most teams in the SFL that they can showcase their attributes without revealing so many of their weaknesses.

[We Are Premier League]

I don't honestly see how you come to the conclusion that Dembele is somehow a forgotten man.

Dembele? I know that it's only the Scottish Premiership, but you can hardly say that he's off the radar now.

With Dembele it depends who you are benchmarking him against IMO.

He is 22 in a few months. If you compare him to the other Dembele (Ousmane), he was signed by Dortmund aged 18/19 and then by Barcelona for EUR 150m aged 20. He also has 7 caps aged 20, whereas Moussa still has none. So it's arguably already clear that Moussa will never be in that top bracket of world class players.

If you look at Sessegnon, by all reports I've seen he's perceived to be the best 17 year old in the world, so the expectation at this stage must be that he can go on to be in that very top bracket. if Moussa Dembele ever had the same expectations, then clearly he's failed to live up to them.

Personally I'm on record on here saying a year or two ago that I thought a more reasonable target for Moussa was to be the next Christian Benteke, or someone around that level. Villa bought him to the premiership aged 22.

But it will be difficult for Moussa to achieve even Benteke's level of success if he doesn't move to one of the big four leagues this summer.

Anyone remember Henrik Larsson... possibly an exception but he clearly showed that a SPL legend might be able to hold his own in Barcelona and Man Utd...

[toshes mate]

Rather than writing things in the tone suggested by HatterDon (reply #7), perhaps the analysis should be less narrow minded and more embracing of the many different facets there are to any young person you can think of.  Sports people have to shoe horn their most rewarding years into a relatively short career and are unlikely to be seriously thinking they may, at some future time, be sufficiently successful to move on to celebrity status, a well paid media role, a job in management, or an alternative career.  Some will be instantly satisfied with higher paid moves elsewhere with a chance to increase their valuation within their most potent periods of repute.   Some young people are gifted with the ability to know options are always best left open until you are absolutely sure they are the right thing to do (meaning they should remain one option out of many).  Young minds make mistakes just like older ones but it doesn't mean anybody is forever making repetitive mistakes.

[RaySmith]

It shows how hard it is to make the grade at the very top level of football in this country, and to stay there.

It must be hard to know what to do when  top Prem clubs come knocking for youngsters playing for clubs like Fulham - you need the right advice, and this might not be from your agent.

Who knows what would have happened if Dembele and Roberts have stayed with  Fulham, but do they think of themselves as failures playing for a club  with the history and massive  following of Celtic, which regularly plays in Europe?

As for Sess - he is definitely  building his reputation, and asking price,  playing for Fulham, who seem to have done everything right by him, and are reaping the rewards of his undoubted talent. He  could even be on the verge of a full international career.

BUT how many  brilliant youngsters haven't made it despite their early promise? And I'm sure Sess knows that  continued success isn't preordained, and he seems a lad with his feet on the ground prepared to graft. I  wish him every success in the future - hopefully with Fulham, but also if/when he moves on.

[MikeW]

Slightly left field but on this topic is McCormack back at Villa? I heard he had done well in Oz but that he had come home / been recalled? Please enlighten.

[Andy S]

I'm certainly not trashing any of our ex players. The two I mention are both very talented guys and I would love to see them do well. However say what you will about Scottish football but its not the big time in any way. Roberts to Man city was a terrible move for his career and development. Opinion that he will make it is not the same as fact, that he has made it. The same for Dembele. Yes he should make it but he seems to be a player that always runs his contract down to the end leaving the club who invested in him no return for their money. He needs a big club in England or Europe to flourish as Scotland does not have enough to give him a challenging game every week

[Marcel_Gecov]

It must be hard to know what to do when  top Prem clubs come knocking for youngsters playing for clubs like Fulham - you need the right advice, and this might not be from your agent.

I know that Sess' dad does have a big say in the boys career at the moment and he may even be the boys agent (I could be wrong about this). As a Fulham fan himself you can see why he is content to watch his twin boys doing their best and potentially earning a promotion this year.

[YankeeJim]

Off topic a bit but I wish there were a way to prevent wealthy clubs from stockpiling players. They buy every young talent and let them claw at each other for playing time. Most end up like Roberts. He may come good someday but had he stayed here, he'd have a 100 games in a competitive league and be much better prepared to step up. Dembele gets his matches in the SPL, but is that really a step up from the Championship?