Author Topic: Saturday and Cairney  (Read 1301 times)

Offline FulhamStu

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Saturday and Cairney
« on: April 16, 2018, 07:15:24 AM »
A number of observations from the game, got back from London last night and still feel the same as I did immediately after the final whistle.

1. We were clearly nervous from the start and made a very slow start.
2. again, could have been nerves but our energy levels were low.
3. Brentford are a decent side
4. Sess and Mitro our best players, a 17 year old playing like a 25 year old at his peak.

Now my real issue: 

I think Cairney is an excellent player, very important for the way we play and one of the most balanced and whilst lacks a right foot his left is superb.  However, his attitude is not of a Captain.  He is more like a schoolboy at times.  Look at the interview on the Fulham website made with Fred and Sess last week after all 3 made team of the year.  He giggles and twats about when he is suppose to be the leader.  I know all footballers enjoy a joke and have a laugh but it’s his leadership and attitude mostly that I don’t like.  When it’s not going well, his head is down looking at the floor and he shows no drive.  During the game after we scored he should have been driving the team on to get the points, he did have a chance to win the game and was unlucky with a typically good effort, but his not a captain and has never been one.  McDonald seems to do the talking in the huddle.   We are going to need strong characters for the play offs, of course as said earlier Cairney is one of our best players and we need him at his best.  He needs to grow up, stop worrying about his hair and dig in, show leadership and work as hard as he can.

Just needed to get that off my chest, ain’t nobody like Tom and he is one of our most important players, in the next 6 games if we get that far we need you at your best and 100% at it mate.

I have not seen the game on tv yet so will look again to verify my views, am I wrong ?
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 07:18:27 AM by FulhamStu »

Offline hovewhite

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Re: Saturday and Cairney
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2018, 08:14:17 AM »
No I agree,it's the area he needs to address.

Offline Statto

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Re: Saturday and Cairney
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2018, 08:28:41 AM »
I agree he has never been a strong captain like Parker, Murphy or a Roy Keane type, and never will be.

However not every team needs a player like that these days. Man City have stormed the Premier League with David Silva as their captain in most games this year. Can you imagine him squaring up to Roy Keane? Laughable

I think we function well as we are, like City. I think the whole team is mature, professional and robust this year. There are no Berbatov or Dembele II types who need a kick up the arse.

IMO we weren’t nervous on Saturday, just tired, which isn’t something leadership can fix.


Offline Southcoastffc

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Re: Saturday and Cairney
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2018, 08:29:17 AM »
  :plus one: I've been of the same opinion ever since TC was given the captaincy. Good player but not a leader.

Offline KingofCheese

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Re: Saturday and Cairney
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2018, 08:47:08 AM »
It seems to me that whilst we were shooting up the table we were all fully supportive of the team, but hit a bump and the knives come out in all sorts of different ways. This is when the team need our support not when we are thrashing the opposition.

The reason that Brentford got something out of the game and could have got more was not lack of leadership on our part but great game planning on theirs. Pressing and stopping us being on the ball. It made us make mistakes. We need to switch the game according to the opposition, speed up and quit the lazy fancy ball at the back that we started the game with. When we did carry out crisp busy passing we cut through them and only the final touch was missing.

Let's not pick on individuals and make them feel bad if they read this site.

Offline Southcoastffc

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Re: Saturday and Cairney
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2018, 08:58:23 AM »
It's not picking on players at all. Statto pretty much states my ofeelings, except that sometimes, just sometimes, you need an on-field leader to galvanise things.  Kmac is the best we have for that.


Offline Andy S

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Re: Saturday and Cairney
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2018, 09:16:04 AM »
Over simplistic. If Cairney's shot had gone in its 2-0 and he's a hero. It didn't and we drew. Ok mistakes are made but that's football. I don't think there is anything wrong with Cairney as captain. And I don't think he did a lot wrong either. Brentford are a very good side and not a walk over and we got a draw against them. That is not a bad result. They may not make the play offs but they will probably be even better next year as will a lot of teams. This year dispite our fantastic run we will only make the play offs. That will do me.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 09:18:53 AM by Andy S »

Offline filham

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Re: Saturday and Cairney
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2018, 09:32:15 AM »
The issue of Cairney as captain has been raised before, yes McDonald would seem to be the better man for the job but this is not the time to raise the issue, something for the summer perhaps.

Cairney is our key man and his performance was good against Brentford in spite of the early fouls against him, he is usually the target of rough play by our opponents.

Offline JimmyConway

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Re: Saturday and Cairney
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2018, 09:38:39 AM »
Brentford are as good as the time you give them on the ball why was Woods motm nice footballer but likes time on the ball as we don't press they'll always make it difficult for us with their current setup.
I thought they were certainly not secure at the back but we never had the composure all afternoon to take advantage.
Disagree re Sess one of the better players apart from Mitrovic and perhaps McDonald the rest struggled to make any impact.
Reminded me a bit of Reading game at home in play-offs where we could not make it happen in the 90mins had no end product.
Not sure if i'm alone but i thought we looked leggy in this game.
For some reason i can only think of Burton at home this season when we went at the opposition from the start put them on the backfoot whereas last season it was a trademark of ours.
I would expect Millwall to be in our faces more without the skill of Brentford hence it will be even more of a difficult game when we play against more physical teams.


Offline FulhamStu

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Re: Saturday and Cairney
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2018, 09:49:16 AM »
Come on, my post is hardly getting the knives out....I went over the top in my praise for Tom, it’s really his body language that I am talking about, and the NEED for leadership when it gets tough.  Of course when you are winning easily it’s not necessary to galvanise a team.  I also agree we have more often won late Borough being the classic example and this did show character, I just want Tom to really lead from the front now we are at the climax to our season.  The team have done wonders to get where they are and now need to finish it off.

I also really did think nerves played a part until the game really got going after about 25 minutes, we can agree to disagree on that one, but I do agree, Brentford made it difficult for us with their high tempo game.

Offline FulhamStu

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Re: Saturday and Cairney
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2018, 09:52:54 AM »
Brentford are as good as the time you give them on the ball why was Woods motm nice footballer but likes time on the ball as we don't press they'll always make it difficult for us with their current setup.
I thought they were certainly not secure at the back but we never had the composure all afternoon to take advantage.
Disagree re Sess one of the better players apart from Mitrovic and perhaps McDonald the rest struggled to make any impact.
Reminded me a bit of Reading game at home in play-offs where we could not make it happen in the 90mins had no end product.
Not sure if i'm alone but i thought we looked leggy in this game.
For some reason I’d can only think of Burton at home this season when we went at the opposition from the start put them on the backfoot whereas last season it was a trademark of ours.
I would expect Millwall to be in our faces more without the skill of Brentford hence it will be even more of a difficult game when we play against more physical teams.


What do you disagree about Sess ?   I said he and Mitro were our best players ?

Offline colinwhite

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Re: Saturday and Cairney
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2018, 09:55:40 AM »
Stu..... TC is who he is ,and he is captain,and does that in his own way. Dont disagree really with your issues but dont think its important as in the huddle before games it is clear to see that is K Mac and Bettinelli doing the talking.
Disappointed with with both TC and Stefan on saturday and they both need to deliver when we need them most.A few too many Allibi passes from Tom in particular against Brentford.


Offline Southcoastffc

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Re: Saturday and Cairney
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2018, 09:56:47 AM »
Some people are mixing 2 issues here. Is TC a leader (I think no).  To what extent is he, as an individual, responsible for us not winning on Saturday (I say it's a team game and we win, draw or lose as a together).

Offline toshes mate

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Re: Saturday and Cairney
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2018, 10:10:30 AM »
Firstly, FulhamStu, I do agree that TC is not a natural leader, and, at times, can infuriate the casual observer, but I am not privy to what goes on behind the scenes, at team meetings, or even in huddles.  That leads me to conclude that TC gets the position for reasons that may not be very obvious to most of us, and, as captain isn't a popularity contest I am happy to leave the choice to those responsible for decision making.

On Saturday evening's game I thought Brentford nullified our early movement rather successfully and, because we started so very poorly, we didn't do what SJ always says we have to do, and that is find a solution.  Our goal came from a very decent move which stretched the defenders and gave Johansen a chance to find Mitrovic directly, something we hadn't been very effective in doing all game.  Briefly, after the goal, we came again but we didn't persist after Brentford stretched us on the break.  Poor decision making was at the root of all the evil and that is a mental weakness which I'd hoped the coaches had resolved.   Clearly there is more work to be done on mental attitude.   Would a change of captain help that process?   Not sure it would, TBH.   

Offline Luka

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Re: Saturday and Cairney
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2018, 11:01:15 AM »
There are many ways to be a leader and you need more than one in a team.
Some lead by example, some dictate while others quietly reassure and encourage.
Players are motivated in different ways. There is no overwhelming single way to be a captain.
TC does it his way and for this season its his captaincy and it'll stay that way until the summer.
I have no problem withthat at all.


Offline FulhamStu

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Re: Saturday and Cairney
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2018, 06:43:30 PM »
I don’t really disagree with any of your responses.  I am also not calling for Tom to be replaced as Captain.
What I am saying is that however or whoever takes leadership roles needs to ensure we remain strong for the rest of the season.  It will be fine margins that determine who is promoted and we must hold our heads high, be positive even if things are going wrong, and win the right to win the play offs as I personally think 2nd place is gone.  The play offs will be won by the team with the best attitude as well as the best players and teamwork.

Offline hovewhite

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Re: Saturday and Cairney
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2018, 07:36:19 PM »
As always people view cairney the man.
Sorry he's better off being allowed to roam without the aggro.
Give it to mcdonald the perlo of Scotland !;;!

Offline KJS

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Re: Saturday and Cairney
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2018, 08:20:17 PM »
McDonald gives the gee up talk in the Huddle before kick off

Offline grandad

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Re: Saturday and Cairney
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2018, 09:02:51 PM »
Our real captain is McDonald & vice captain is Betts. Both of them lead the pre match huddle. The captains armband that Cairney wears is in recognition of his undoubted talent.

Offline FulhamStu

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Re: Saturday and Cairney
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2018, 05:28:26 PM »
I said I would watch the recording of the game on tv and come back to confirm my observations from Saturday so here goes:

It was a game where the fans including me got caught up in the occasion and importance of the result.  I am normally quite good at seeing the tactics and shape of a game but clearly I missed a few important things.

1.  Brentford were very good indeed and their tactics were spot on.  What they did was have players playing very wide and used the width to very good effect.  This also had the effect of creating more space for them in midfield and it’s took away from our close intricate play which we did very well at times but not often enough.   Woods in particular had loads of space and their wide men prevented our full backs getting forward as often as they normally do, esp Targett. Woods was rightly given MOTM by tv and is much improved since his Shrewsbury days, where I saw him play a few times.

2. Cairney did much better then I thought, he was not involved as much as normal due the the above, however he did work hard and was running at the end.  We know he is not lightning quick and got caught a few times one on one with their quick players towards the end however I withdraw some of my comments as he was certainly not to blame for much.  I still don’t like his body launguage but that’s me not him.

So, we basically caught Brentford on a very good day, we were not at our best but not that bad and could have won the game although the result was certainly earned by a very good Brentford team, full credit to their coach Smith.   Another interesting point is that the Hammersmith end gave the ref a lot of stick during the game but on reflection, he did more to help Fulham than Brentford, again shows how being caught up in the emotion can cloud your vision.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 05:31:54 PM by FulhamStu »