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Few things to discuss tomorrow...

Started by Milo, April 20, 2018, 11:48:11 PM

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Milo

When all the celebrations are over..

1. Odoi v Kalas. Shambles from Odoi in first half. Kalas looked strong when he came on (goal aside) albeit it under modest pressure late on. I would give Kalas his place back personally because I feel Odoi did enough to lose it tonight.. even if Kalas hasn't done enough to win it per se.

2. Piazon at RW. Looked ineffective and never really in it in the first half. Grew into the game second half but still never shone. I'm not convinced.. I'm a big Neeskans fan and I really think he is being heavily under-utilised. I don't think Piazon offers much more defensively either so that debate is out the window. There is something going on behind the scenes we don't know about that's keeping Kebano out this team and it's frustrating.

rogerpbackinMidEastUS

I just think that Slav reckons Piazon (like Mitro} holds the ball up and distributes it well, particualrly in tight situations.
I don't rate him either but he offers something I guess
VERY DAFT AND A LOT DAFTER THAN I SEEM, SOMETIMES

EastEndWhite

Quote from: Milo on April 20, 2018, 11:48:11 PM
When all the celebrations are over..

1. Odoi v Kalas. Shambles from Odoi in first half. Kalas looked strong when he came on (goal aside) albeit it under modest pressure late on. I would give Kalas his place back personally because I feel Odoi did enough to lose it tonight.. even if Kalas hasn't done enough to win it per se.

2. Piazon at RW. Looked ineffective and never really in it in the first half. Grew into the game second half but still never shone. I'm not convinced.. I'm a big Neeskans fan and I really think he is being heavily under-utilised. I don't think Piazon offers much more defensively either so that debate is out the window. There is something going on behind the scenes we don't know about that's keeping Kebano out this team and it's frustrating.

Sorry but disagree on both points.


Milo

Quote from: Statto on April 21, 2018, 12:02:17 AM
hmmm not totally with you on either point

Kalas - I agree he is a better defender but (a) Odoi is still better in possession and (b) in any case, no manager would make a single change to the first XI after a result like that

Piazon - again I agree but thought he looked decent second half, and again see point (b) above

Kebano - WHY do we have these conspiracy theories about why he's out the team? He's good but not good enough, simple as that. He offers pace and trickery but goes awol, doesn't defend, and can't really do the tippy-tappy stuff, which is the essence of our current style. at the end of the day kamara and ojo both offer something very close to what you get from kebano, do we think the manager has fallen out with them as well because he picks sessegnon and mitrovic instead?

I also agree Statto that changing a winning team seems counter productive.

I am just trying to fashion in my mind... make sense of... who fits our situation better. On the one hand you have the impending play offs (should Cardiff maintain form) and the need to recognise that we will be coming up against more of the same bullish tactics. But on the other hand... you are right in that chopping and changing when it's half a dozen of one and six of the other only serves to disrupt the team.

I think on reflection you are probably right. Bar the QPR mistake which anyone could do and was just hard luck, this was the only 45 minutes where he's really played poorly. So it's probably strike 2, isn't it.

Twig

Kalas vs Odoi is a real toughie. Odoi has had a great run, tonight wasn't his best but another clean sheet. Kalas' cameo was pressure free so told us nothing. I agree with Statto that I like Odoi's comfort on the ball but would also be happy to see Kalas get a start, he must be fit, rested and hungry. Useful at this stage of a season!
RW is an issue in Ayite's absence. I tend to agree that Kebano just deserves a start. Can it hurt to do this against Birmingham? Piazon is decent enough and works hard but he drifts inside, fails to offer Fred enough options and offers little threat. One or two wanted Fed subbed at half time tonight, it can't be coincidence that Fred looks less effective when Piazon plays in front of him. 


Milo

Quote from: Twig on April 21, 2018, 12:16:02 AM
Kalas vs Odoi is a real toughie. Odoi has had a great run, tonight wasn't his best but another clean sheet. Kalas' cameo was pressure free so told us nothing. I agree with Statto that I like Odoi's comfort on the ball but would also be happy to see Kalas get a start, he must be fit, rested and hungry. Useful at this stage of a season!
RW is an issue in Ayite's absence. I tend to agree that Kebano just deserves a start. Can it hurt to do this against Birmingham? Piazon is decent enough and works hard but he drifts inside, fails to offer Fred enough options and offers little threat. One or two wanted Fed subbed at half time tonight, it can't be coincidence that Fred looks less effective when Piazon plays in front of him. 



Equally it has been suggested Ojo plays too wide for Fredericks to overlap!


EastEndWhite

Just let Slavisa worry about who to start.  He seems to be doing okay so far.

peaty

Quote from: Twig on April 21, 2018, 12:16:02 AM
One or two wanted Fed subbed at half time tonight, it can't be coincidence that Fred looks less effective when Piazon plays in front of him. 


This is definitely not a coincidence. But I suspect the only reason Piazon gets the nod ahead of Kebano is that Kebano is even worse defensively. This is the only reason I can come up with for Slav's Piazon preference.

Actually thought Odoi did well tonight. Looked very composed, I thought.

The Old Count

Disagree on both points.

Piazon is a smart player and can narrow the play like he did in the first half which meant that we did less chasing when Millwall were fresh and pumped.  That allowed us to open up second half especially when they started to flag a bit.

As said earlier. Kalas defends better Odoi distributes better and provides better options when we're being pressured.

All round a great call again from Slav.


Twig

Quote from: Milo on April 21, 2018, 12:27:43 AM
Quote from: Twig on April 21, 2018, 12:16:02 AM
Kalas vs Odoi is a real toughie. Odoi has had a great run, tonight wasn't his best but another clean sheet. Kalas' cameo was pressure free so told us nothing. I agree with Statto that I like Odoi's comfort on the ball but would also be happy to see Kalas get a start, he must be fit, rested and hungry. Useful at this stage of a season!
RW is an issue in Ayite's absence. I tend to agree that Kebano just deserves a start. Can it hurt to do this against Birmingham? Piazon is decent enough and works hard but he drifts inside, fails to offer Fred enough options and offers little threat. One or two wanted Fed subbed at half time tonight, it can't be coincidence that Fred looks less effective when Piazon plays in front of him. 


Equally it has been suggested Ojo plays too wide for Fredericks to overlap!


His instincts do take him a bit wider than Kalas but whether that inhibits Fred from overlapping I am not sure. It does offer Fred a sideways option when there is no out ball. It's not easy and we are lucky to have the luxury of such discussions.  Would still give Kebano a start for the next match, I can't see how it could hurt and we would see how he fares over 90 mins.

Bill2

Quote from: peaty on April 21, 2018, 01:38:35 AM
Quote from: Twig on April 21, 2018, 12:16:02 AM
One or two wanted Fed subbed at half time tonight, it can't be coincidence that Fred looks less effective when Piazon plays in front of him. 


This is definitely not a coincidence. But I suspect the only reason Piazon gets the nod ahead of Kebano is that Kebano is even worse defensively. This is the only reason I can come up with for Slav's Piazon preference.

Actually thought Odoi did well tonight. Looked very composed, I thought.
Thought there were several chances for Piazon to feed Fred down the right but didn't.

itombomb

Quote from: Milo on April 21, 2018, 12:27:43 AM
Quote from: Twig on April 21, 2018, 12:16:02 AM
Kalas vs Odoi is a real toughie. Odoi has had a great run, tonight wasn't his best but another clean sheet. Kalas' cameo was pressure free so told us nothing. I agree with Statto that I like Odoi's comfort on the ball but would also be happy to see Kalas get a start, he must be fit, rested and hungry. Useful at this stage of a season!
RW is an issue in Ayite's absence. I tend to agree that Kebano just deserves a start. Can it hurt to do this against Birmingham? Piazon is decent enough and works hard but he drifts inside, fails to offer Fred enough options and offers little threat. One or two wanted Fed subbed at half time tonight, it can't be coincidence that Fred looks less effective when Piazon plays in front of him. 



Equally it has been suggested Ojo plays too wide for Fredericks to overlap!
Ojo is currently too greedy for Fred to overlap, cuts back himself inside every time.