Transfer business

[Roberty]

we get revenue from TV which does not get taken into consideration

Agree with everything you've said except this - why would TV money not be included in our revenue for FFP purposes? It's probably what, 90% of our revenue? I'm sure it's taken into consideration (thank goodness!)

The TV money is for broadcasting rights - it is income just as selling a burger on a match day is

[toshes mate]

There are those who are criticised for being gloomy for simply stating the obvious - realistically what we actually have in our hands now, as distinct from what we may eventually have, is worryingly short of what we may have hoped for when celebrating our famous victory in May at Wembley.  That is fact.  None of us know how Seri and le Marchand will perform in Fulham shirts - we naturally hope they have wonderful and successful times at FFC - and so we want them to prove to be top signings, but that is an unknown just as will be any signings other than players who wore shirts for us last season as loan signings.  I still remember all the loud cheering noises made on here about the Soares loan last season for example.  Stage one is getting deals over the line.  Stage two is making them work successfully in a good PL side.  That is a lot of work for the coaching team to do in what is a steadily decreasing period of time except, perhaps, for Targett and Mitrovic who would hopefully replicate in the PL what we know about them already from the Championship.

And so I worry about those who are critical of the realists because it seems to me their grounds for optimism are not strong enough to stand up to the reality we find ourselves in right now.  I do hope the recruitment team prove up to the task of procuring players who will serve us well in the PL simply because, for the Khans, there will always be a first time for everything.  My cautions remain because we still haven't secured the signature of our head coach to a new contract, which, just weeks ago was seen on here as a priority.  Whether or not that is a worry I have no clue about and I am not sure I see any useful clues to help me out anywhere.  Until I know better I am left with a feeling of not knowing what to think or feel about next season. I will cheer loudly when the Khans succeed, boo loudly when they don't, and remain silent during their times of apparent indifference.     

[Woolly Mammoth]

There are those who are criticised for being gloomy for simply stating the obvious - realistically what we actually have in our hands now, as distinct from what we may eventually have, is worryingly short of what we may have hoped for when celebrating our famous victory in May at Wembley.  That is fact.  None of us know how Seri and le Marchand will perform in Fulham shirts - we naturally hope they have wonderful and successful times at FFC - and so we want them to prove to be top signings, but that is an unknown just as will be any signings other than players who wore shirts for us last season as loan signings.  I still remember all the loud cheering noises made on here about the Soares loan last season for example.  Stage one is getting deals over the line.  Stage two is making them work successfully in a good PL side.  That is a lot of work for the coaching team to do in what is a steadily decreasing period of time except, perhaps, for Targett and Mitrovic who would hopefully replicate in the PL what we know about them already from the Championship.

And so I worry about those who are critical of the realists because it seems to me their grounds for optimism are not strong enough to stand up to the reality we find ourselves in right now.  I do hope the recruitment team prove up to the task of procuring players who will serve us well in the PL simply because, for the Khans, there will always be a first time for everything.  My cautions remain because we still haven't secured the signature of our head coach to a new contract, which, just weeks ago was seen on here as a priority.  Whether or not that is a worry I have no clue about and I am not sure I see any useful clues to help me out anywhere.  Until I know better I am left with a feeling of not knowing what to think or feel about next season. I will cheer loudly when the Khans succeed, boo loudly when they don't, and remain silent during their times of apparent indifference.     

I concur with your observations, which are imo realistic.
Which brings me to want to clear up an issue about posters who want to be positive, confusing realistic with negativity.
It'is not negative to be realistic, realistic is stating the obvious, and not sleep walking and leaving your head in the sand, as some self proclaimed positive posters are guilty of, and then proceed to claim that realism is a negative attitude.
Being realistic is not a crime, or an offence, and is not to be confused with negativity.

Realism is accepting a situation as it is in the cold light of day, nothing to be an Ostrich about.
Negative is to be in denial, hostile and disparaging.
Therefore a huge difference.

[Stevieboy]

Just seen that things are 99% sorted with Fabri with the club negotiating the agent's commission. Surely that is between the player and his agent, the agent gets the player big bucks and the player pays him for his services?

[twang]

Just seen that things are 99% sorted with Fabri with the club negotiating the agent's commission. Surely that is between the player and his agent, the agent gets the player big bucks and the player pays him for his services?

That would be the sensible thing, but agent fees are a big thing in football unfortunately.

[Woolly Mammoth]

Just seen that things are 99% sorted with Fabri with the club negotiating the agent's commission. Surely that is between the player and his agent, the agent gets the player big bucks and the player pays him for his services?

That would be the sensible thing, but agent fees are a big thing in football unfortunately.

So are players egos

[General]

Question - what stops shahid from putting his own money into player investments as structured long term loans with no interest and payable a year or so later? Or him just buying players and personally underwriting the costs, so the club can bring in the players without going into severe debt?

Appreciate it's not sustainable and is his personal funds, but al fayed did something similar didn't he and then wiped club debt when passing on the club.

[Roberty]

Question - what stops shahid from putting his own money into player investments as structured long term loans with no interest and payable a year or so later? Or him just buying players and personally underwriting the costs, so the club can bring in the players without going into severe debt?

Appreciate it's not sustainable and is his personal funds, but al fayed did something similar didn't he and then wiped club debt when passing on the club.

The money we're spending now is his and he can put in as much as he wants (he will get some back when the PL divvi up the TV money - we just needs to contain losses to the FFP limit

I don't think the PL will let him get away with Barnacle Bill Mitrovic jumping off his yacht on match days to play for us as an amateur

[YoungsBitter]

we get revenue from TV which does not get taken into consideration

Agree with everything you've said except this - why would TV money not be included in our revenue for FFP purposes? It's probably what, 90% of our revenue? I'm sure it's taken into consideration (thank goodness!)

The TV money is for broadcasting rights - it is income just as selling a burger on a match day is

Sorry you are right in terms of the accumulated losses of £105, they back out broadcast revenue from the Short Term Cost Control calculations which effectively limit our wage bill this year to £81million. Key for us is the increase in wages between this year's number and next can only be funded over a certain amount (currently £7 miilion but yet to be finalized for 19/20). We need to get our wage bill right this year so we cannot cram wages in 2018 to get under the £81mm by having sharp increases each year.  Signing fees is only part of the picture as has been discussed elsewhere.

[YoungsBitter]

Question - what stops shahid from putting his own money into player investments as structured long term loans with no interest and payable a year or so later? Or him just buying players and personally underwriting the costs, so the club can bring in the players without going into severe debt?

Appreciate it's not sustainable and is his personal funds, but al fayed did something similar didn't he and then wiped club debt when passing on the club.

The money we're spending now is his and he can put in as much as he wants (he will get some back when the PL divvi up the TV money - we just needs to contain losses to the FFP limit

I don't think the PL will let him get away with Barnacle Bill Mitrovic jumping off his yacht on match days to play for us as an amateur

Khan cannot just put in as much as he wants. 

In the Championship everyone (including me) used to say the maximum permitted losses were 13m per year - in fact the max losses were 8m and the max an owner could put in was 5m, which effectively meant a club could get away with 13m loss if it had a generous owner
i haven't checked but i think it nigh on certain that the PL rules deal with, and limit, what the chairman can invest in the same way
and of course things like third party ownership, related party transactions, etc are all covered as well
there are no (obvious) shortcuts around FFP

In the calculation of the adjusted results of a club the League looks at :"The Board shall determine whether consideration included in the Club's Earnings Before Tax arising from a Related Party Transaction is recorded in the Club's Annual Accounts at a Fair Market Value. If it is not, the Board shall restate it to Fair Market Value." So even if Khan was somehow dumb enough to personally hire Mitro through say the Jaguars for £50mm and wages at £100k a week and loan him to FFC at £5k a week and for no fee they can adjust to market value.

[SuffolkWhite]

I don't really understand how this all works financially, but cant we just get a shirt sponsor who puts 100M into the club!? Can't a Khan company do that? "Khan Auto parts" or something?

[b+w geezer]

I don't really understand how this all works financially, but cant we just get a shirt sponsor who puts 100M into the club!? Can't a Khan company do that? "Khan Auto parts" or something?

It would be a waste of time, as the Premier League would only count for Financial Fair Purposes the amount of sponsorship that would have been obtainable from an unconnected sponsor. These paras from the Premier League Handbook refer...

The Board shall determine whether consideration included in the Club's Earnings Before Tax arising from a Related Party Transaction is recorded in the Club's Annual Accounts at a Fair Market Value. If it is not, the Board shall restate it to Fair Market Value.

Fair Market Value" means the amount for which an asset could be sold, licensed or exchanged, a liability settled, or a service provided, between knowledgeable, willing parties in an arm's length transaction.

The Handbook itself is accessible via www.premierleague.com/news/102374

[Roberty]

Khan cannot just put in as much as he wants. 

there are no (obvious) shortcuts around FFP

I know there is no shortcut - but as with other clubs - our neighbours QPHaHa for instance but others in the PL have done it too - he can just fly the jolly roger and sail his yacht through the FFP limit and face the consequences if he gets found out.

I'm sure he is not going to take the risk and I would not recommend it if it can be avoided - BUT - relegation from the PL is worse than any penalty they could impose

[Lyle from Hangeland]

Khan cannot just put in as much as he wants. 

there are no (obvious) shortcuts around FFP

I know there is no shortcut - but as with other clubs - our neighbours QPHaHa for instance but others in the PL have done it too - he can just fly the jolly roger and sail his yacht through the FFP limit and face the consequences if he gets found out.

I'm sure he is not going to take the risk and I would not recommend it if it can be avoided - BUT - relegation from the PL is worse than any penalty they could impose

Spending lots of money doesn't guarantee not be relegated. It's got to be done wisely. Fulham just won't ever have it easy. The big clubs are established and Fulham just isn't one of them. Embrace the stress!