Villa and new investment.

[Beamer]

I have read a number of comments in the press etc that the new investors in Villa will ease their financial problems and enable them to hang on to players like Grealish.
How does this work with financial fair play rules. Surely they cannot simply take money from them or create more shares as any club getting close to breaching the rules would simply do it all the time (assuming they had a rich enough owner or he had good friends. I thought that the rules were supposed to stop owners from just throwing money at the club.

[snarks]

According to something I read on the Villa forum (I had a bit of a nosey around after the playoff victory), on FFP they are right in it. According to their version of MJG, due to their purchases etc they are likely to lose around £25 (it could be more say £35 million) but under FFP, they can only lose another £7 million or so because of their huge overspend in the previous 2 years. Hence to avoid FFP penalties, they have to sell everyone.

[filham]

According to something I read on the Villa forum (I had a bit of a nosey around after the playoff victory), on FFP they are right in it. According to their version of MJG, due to their purchases etc they are likely to lose around £25 (it could be more say £35 million) but under FFP, they can only lose another £7 million or so because of their huge overspend in the previous 2 years. Hence to avoid FFP penalties, they have to sell everyone.

FFP penalties, is that what was handed out to QPR a few years ago and we never heard about them making a payment.

[paulbrookersmazydribbles]

QPR keep appealing the judgement to a judicial court - thereby earning a stay of execution and incurring more costs. It's stupid, but it also why they have very little money to splash on new signings.

[aaronmcguigan]

The big new investment Villa have got eases the burden simply to be able to afford Micah Richards and Ross McCormacks contracts

[b+w geezer]

FFP penalties, is that what was handed out to QPR a few years ago and we never heard about them making a payment.

No, in that the rules have changed since then and the league can now deduct points for failure to comply. No-one has yet tested this, but there are precedents for points deduction for other reasons, and of course there are no payments for the league to await since the act of deduction is in their own hands. 

[KingofCheese]

I think Villa spent big on contracts with the belief that they could shoot themselves back into the big time..it was a gamble that failed.

[Baszab]

Can we have our £6m back that they still owe ?

[Carborundum]

I have a feeling the answer to the original post is a categorical "it depends".  FFP is about profits and losses.  So if a club issues shares for cash, spends that cash on a player contract they put on the balance sheet, sell the player a year later for more money than they paid for him plus  his wages for the year, then only profits get recorded in the profit and loss account.  FFP position gets better not worse

Aston Villa are still in a dark place.  They have been terrible at selecting players who will benefit the club.  Two rich blokes riding over the hill doesn't improve that aspect of their set up.  The scenario outlined above is a pipe dream for them.  Their manager talks about how the new owners may want their own man.  That's manager-speak for "can I have a big pay off please".  Things will probably get worse before getting better.

QPR are in a happier position having gone down the route of getting in young, hungry and unheard of players.  Whatever you think of their new coach, his best work has been done with young and hungry players. They were really good in the second half at the Cottage last year, my benchmark of who will do quite well this year in the Championship.  Yes, they have cocked a snook at FFP, but ultimately I dislike FFP, just like Mr Al Fayed did.  I'm not prepared to feign outrage at QPR's breach just to score points over them.  They are running the club on sensible lines and talking with their long-suffering fans, it's welcome.

[YoungsBitter]

I have a feeling the answer to the original post is a categorical "it depends".  FFP is about profits and losses.  So if a club issues shares for cash, spends that cash on a player contract they put on the balance sheet, sell the player a year later for more money than they paid for him plus  his wages for the year, then only profits get recorded in the profit and loss account.  FFP position gets better not worse

Aston Villa are still in a dark place.  They have been terrible at selecting players who will benefit the club.  Two rich blokes riding over the hill doesn't improve that aspect of their set up.  The scenario outlined above is a pipe dream for them.  Their manager talks about how the new owners may want their own man.  That's manager-speak for "can I have a big pay off please".  Things will probably get worse before getting better.

I am always suspicious of the magical thinking about owners and new investors. I actually have done business with Wes Edens when he was at Fortress and he is no mug, specifically he and his partner will have bought a share of Villa for a price that they believe they can make a good return on. That probably comes at a cost to "Dr" Tony and is probably more in the way of providing working capital to allow Villa to pay the HMRC bills and have one go at getting back into the Prem. That is the only way the investment, whatever it is, makes sense. Without knowing the details of the Villa accounts I would not be surprised if its not even their money, ie it may be loans against "Dr" Tony Xia's shareholdings or if there is anything tangible like land. If the plan works out they get controlling interest in a Premiership team on the cheap, if it does not they have not lost a fortune.
They will probably put their own man in to replace Keith Wyness, the former CEO but not their own man to replace Bruce as neither knows anything about football ( although there are rumours Thierry Henry and Steve Bould have been lined up). If they can keep a title challenge real with the addition of a couple of loans, they can keep Grealish and Chester as they are contracted and no pressure to sell as long as the new guys bankroll the salaries. I don't think they give a sh&t about FFP...

[bobby01]

Thierry Henry has apparently agreed to take managers job.

[aaronmcguigan]

QPR are in a happier position having gone down the route of getting in young, hungry and unheard of players.  Whatever you think of their new coach, his best work has been done with young and hungry players.

His only good work was done in Twente with Bryan Ruiz running the show. His main honours in his career including 5 sackings and 3 resignations. QPR are a team crying out to be rebuilt by a manager willing or capable of sticking around a few years, anyone other than Holloway, as they seem to be finally rid of any so called big names

[toshes mate]

There is a crucial meeting at Villa today and that will, among other things, determine Bruce's future short or long term.  I think Villa's profligacy with players is summed up by the simple fact McCormack would have received a bonus of £1m had Villa achieved promotion in May. 

[Roberty]

Regarding QPR, IMO they always get wrongly held up on this board as a club who "beat the system". Looking at where they are these days, i don't see how anyone can say it has worked out well for them. why should the FL rush to enforce the fine when the club is just stewing in its own miserable juices in the meantime?

I seem to think the rules were changed after the run in with QPR to make the accounting rules and penalties for transgression clearer and therefore more easily enforced - like they were against us.

So yes - they are a bad example

[Jims Dentist]

Thierry Henry has apparently agreed to take managers job.

If I was a Villa fan I would not be happy to have Thierry.
They need someone who knows The Championship and the sort of players needed.

[Steven Ageroad]

Listening to talksport this morning and it seems that the money the new investors have put in is just to cover the large debt the club had ie to HMRC for unpaid tax. Seems there is not a lot else to invest in players unless they sell players.