Players need time to gel.... Exactly why they should have been bought in early.

[VancouverWhite]

Just keep in mind that we are being built for the future. 

Time to gel due to roster turnover is part of the process. Starting off slow is part of it and I almost wish we had one more game against top 6 opponent to get out of the way now.

[hovewhite]

Not too worried myself ,also we seem to start every season on the back foot ,so I've seen this all before so
Stress not!

[toshes mate]

The OP has a point, no matter what excuses about complexity we can derive for the benefit of the transfer system.  Even SJ sums it up for us - our opponents have been playing together for three years not two and half weeks - and I do not believe for one minute he is using it as an excuse rather than as an explanation of what it takes to get players smoothly engaging in battle.  This is about the numbers game and the probability index that asks 'what is the chance of seven newcomers gelling together to play top class opposition in a game of football after days rather than months and years?'  The answer comes back highly 'highly improbable'.  Is that the 'spur' (excuse the pun) for the Club to gain much more stability of players on staff in the future so that we can actually focus on just one or two requirements at a time and not a whole team load of newbies?  I sincerely hope so.

For what it is worth, however, I haven't been disheartened by what I have seen so far.  For sure we need to tighten up on a lot of fronts, not least ball retention, but there are signs we are moving in the right direction.  We always knew it would take time.  The question is 'how long'?   I still think we are perhaps another three/four games (without new injuries worries) away from turning the corner, but football is such that we may get some welcome relief much earlier than that.

[Twig]

And who was it said pre season doesn't matter.

Nobody ever

That is totally incorrect.  This was debated at length during the summer, I was strongly of the view that the lack of a meaningful pre-season would cost us points and was told by several posters that pre-season games are; meaningless and of no consequence.

[Twig]

The OP has a point, no matter what excuses about complexity we can derive for the benefit of the transfer system.  Even SJ sums it up for us - our opponents have been playing together for three years not two and half weeks - and I do not believe for one minute he is using it as an excuse rather than as an explanation of what it takes to get players smoothly engaging in battle.  This is about the numbers game and the probability index that asks 'what is the chance of seven newcomers gelling together to play top class opposition in a game of football after days rather than months and years?'  The answer comes back highly 'highly improbable'.  Is that the 'spur' (excuse the pun) for the Club to gain much more stability of players on staff in the future so that we can actually focus on just one or two requirements at a time and not a whole team load of newbies?  I sincerely hope so.

For what it is worth, however, I haven't been disheartened by what I have seen so far.  For sure we need to tighten up on a lot of fronts, not least ball retention, but there are signs we are moving in the right direction.  We always knew it would take time.  The question is 'how long'?   I still think we are perhaps another three/four games (without new injuries worries) away from turning the corner, but football is such that we may get some welcome relief much earlier than that.

That seems a very fair and reasoned response.

[ffc73]

We all, in this and other posts, seem to agree that there are positive signs from the many acquisitions. Let's hope they gel quickly, we get points on the board & survive in this division this season

That means next summer we will have the nucleus of a very good squad that will require few additions to hopefully push on and do more than survive. I sight our first two opponents, and our next, as teams that have had few personnel changes & successfully compete in this division

Let's hope we have a quiet preseason next year. That will mean we have survived and Joka is working with a stable squad with no World Cup or Euro's as a distraction

[Statto]

And who was it said pre season doesn't matter.

Nobody ever

That is totally incorrect.  This was debated at length during the summer, I was strongly of the view that the lack of a meaningful pre-season would cost us points and was told by several posters that pre-season games are; meaningless and of no consequence.

+1

Opinions on the window from many on here seem binary - either it was the best window ever, perfect in every way, or it was terrible and Tony Khan should resign.

The reality is the cost and reputation of some signings showed great ambition (good) but the signings were still massively loaded towards the end of the window (bad).

If we were going to be so active, particularly when so many of our signings were from abroad, we should have been active in June and July, when we were still one of the less active clubs, rather than just on 9 August.

Signing 5 players on deadline day made it very exciting but with hindsight, it is a little bit ridiculous and there's a reason the average number of players signed by other PL clubs on that day was only 1.

Good points and bad points as with most things in life.

[Holders]

By the standards of any normal window, Mr. Icke, the new signings were brought in early. There's no bucking market forces which keep many players and their agents waiting till the last minute.

[Lyle from Hangeland]

And who was it said pre season doesn't matter.

Nobody ever

That is totally incorrect.  This was debated at length during the summer, I was strongly of the view that the lack of a meaningful pre-season would cost us points and was told by several posters that pre-season games are; meaningless and of no consequence.

+1

Opinions on the window from many on here seem binary - either it was the best window ever, perfect in every way, or it was terrible and Tony Khan should resign.

The reality is the cost and reputation of some signings showed great ambition (good) but the signings were still massively loaded towards the end of the window (bad).

If we were going to be so active, particularly when so many of our signings were from abroad, we should have been active in June and July, when we were still one of the less active clubs, rather than just on 9 August.

Signing 5 players on deadline day made it very exciting but with hindsight, it is a little bit ridiculous and there's a reason the average number of players signed by other PL clubs on that day was only 1.

Good points and bad points as with most things in life.

Who says we weren't "active"? No doubt we failed to bring in certain players, which is why there were so many brought in at the deadline.

Nobody argues that having most of your team bedded in before pre-season is NOT what you want. Obviously this is what everyone wants. It goes without saying. It just wasn't likely for Fulham, because of Fulham's ambition, and Fulham having only made it to the Premier League by being the playoff winner.

[Statto]

Nobody argues that having most of your team bedded in before pre-season is NOT what you want. Obviously this is what everyone wants. It goes without saying. It just wasn't likely for Fulham, because of Fulham's ambition, and Fulham having only made it to the Premier League by being the playoff winner.

Hmm, not really sure I buy the play-off excuse. The club could have had (and actually, they told the FST the did indeed have) a list of PL targets prepared before the play-off final, in case we got promoted. It's not as if getting promoted came out of the blue and meant we had to spend all of June preparing a new list of targets.

To put some numbers on this, according to my calculations (and these were manual, so there may be small errors but I hope not) there were 91 transfers to the other 19 PL clubs this summer - 27 in June, 31 in July, and 33 in August. So a slight skew toward August but not massive.

We completed 0 transfers in June, 5 in July and 7 in August. So ours were much more skewed towards the end of the window than most other clubs'. Here's a graphical representation of that



To put it another way, we were the joint LEAST active club in June, as one of nine clubs who signed no one. But in August (and indeed, over the window as a whole) we were by far the MOST active, ultimately signing 12 players when even the next most active team, West Ham, only signed 9.

To give a bit more context, the next most active clubs, West Ham, Brighton, Wolves and Huddersfield, each signed 5-7 players in June/July and only 1-3 each in August.

To retierate, I'm happy with the ambition we showed in the window overall but we are massive outliers in terms of our timing, so the OP has a point.

[Lyle from Hangeland]

Nobody argues that having most of your team bedded in before pre-season is NOT what you want. Obviously this is what everyone wants. It goes without saying. It just wasn't likely for Fulham, because of Fulham's ambition, and Fulham having only made it to the Premier League by being the playoff winner.

Hmm, not really sure I buy the play-off excuse. The club could have had (and actually, they told the FST the did indeed have) a list of PL targets prepared before the play-off final, in case we got promoted. It's not as if getting promoted came out of the blue and meant we had to spend all of June preparing a new list of targets.

To put some numbers on this, according to my calculations (and these were manual, so there may be small errors but I hope not) there were 91 transfers to the other 19 PL clubs this summer - 27 in June, 31 in July, and 33 in August. So a slight skew toward August but not massive.

We completed 0 transfers in June, 5 in July and 7 in August. So ours were much more skewed towards the end of the window than most other clubs'. Here's a graphical representation of that



To put it another way, we were the joint LEAST active club in June, as one of nine clubs who signed no one. But in August (and indeed, over the window as a whole) we were by far the MOST active, ultimately signing 12 players when even the next most active team, West Ham, only signed 9.

To give a bit more context, the next most active clubs, West Ham, Brighton, Wolves and Huddersfield, each signed 5-7 players in June/July and only 1-3 each in August.

To retierate, I'm happy with the ambition we showed in the window overall but we are massive outliers in terms of our timing, so the OP has a point.

I don't disagree with any of this, but none of this means our front office wasn't "active" in the transfer market the minute Fulham won the playoff. It could mean the front office failed to bring in players on their lists after trying to (Tony Khan has said as much). It could mean it took time for the board to sell Fulham's ambition and style of play to certain players. It's got to be difficult to sell yourself to players as the playoff winner, because are you going to go right back down. Mitrovic had to play in the World Cup. There are more variables involved than just whatever it is our front office wants to do, when they want to do it.

[Statto]

I don't disagree with any of this, but none of this means our front office wasn't "active" in the transfer market the minute Fulham won the playoff. It could mean the front office failed to bring in players on their lists after trying to (Tony Khan has said as much). It could mean it took time for the board to sell Fulham's ambition and style of play to certain players. It's got to be difficult to sell yourself to players as the playoff winner, because are you going to go right back down. Mitrovic had to play in the World Cup. There are more variables involved than just whatever it is our front office wants to do, when they want to do it.

How much of that only applies to us? Are we the only club that got knocked by some of the players we wanted to sign? Are we the only club that signed players who'd played in the world cup? You make a big point of us being newly-promoted, but we shouldn't have been a substantially harder sell than the other 4 most active clubs I've just mentioned, West Ham, Brighton, Wolves and Huddersfield. And even to the extent we're less attractive than Arsenal for example, most of those clubs were probably going for even higher quality players, so still had the same problem. Indeed, the most ambitious of our signings, Seri, was the first one we got done. So again, not sure I buy this excuse.

[S.F.Sorrow]

This wouldn't have been a problem if we had a decent squad to build on. But with 6 loan players + Fredericks leaving, plus a couple of injuries/suspensions, we've been forced to use players that aren't even close to settled. I mean, 7 new players vs Palace and some of them arriving 2 days earlier...

They will improve. Hopefully not too late to avoid relegation.

The thing that worries me the most is the fact that the club is making the same mistake all over again: Too many loans. Even if we avoid relegation the squad will be torn to pieces next summer, requiring yet another last minute re-build and yet another poor start to the season.

[Woolly Mammoth]

And who was it said pre season doesn't matter.
R

Nobody ever

That is totally incorrect.  This was debated at length during the summer, I was strongly of the view that the lack of a meaningful pre-season would cost us points and was told by several posters that pre-season games are; meaningless and of no consequence.

Yes I remember those ill judged, naive and inexperienced remarks made by posters who have no understanding of the concept of Preparation, Organisation and Conditioning, as well as the importance of moulding players into a familiarised unit.
One of the best ways to accelerate that in practice is the emphasis on familiarity and the importance and awareness of valueing your team mates, and the principle of one for all and all for one.
This does not happen overnight, and it relies on the cooperation of all those involved.
You cannot just press a button, we are dealing with human beings.
If a team of individual players can master those core principles, to form a heart beat and a team spirit, into a fighting unit, then that in itself can be as good as a goal start.

[BedsFFC]

And who was it said pre season doesn't matter.
R

Nobody ever

That is totally incorrect.  This was debated at length during the summer, I was strongly of the view that the lack of a meaningful pre-season would cost us points and was told by several posters that pre-season games are; meaningless and of no consequence.

Yes I remember those ill judged, naive and inexperienced remarks made by posters who have no understanding of the concept of Preparation, Organisation and Conditioning, as well as the importance of moulding players into a familiarised unit.
One of the best ways to accelerate that in practice is the emphasis on familiarity and the importance and awareness of valueing your team mates, and the principle of one for all and all for one.
This does not happen overnight, and it relies on the cooperation of all those involved.
You cannot just press a button, we are dealing with human beings.
If a team of individual players can master those core principles, to form a heart beat and a team spirit, into a fighting unit, then that in itself can be as good as a goal start.

Would you mind finding me one poster who stated that having a period of training prior to our first league game was a waste of time?

As flowery as your explanation was, you really didn't need to explain the benefits of pre-season?  Every club in every league in every country has done it forever. Even pub teams have a kickabout a couple of weeks before the first match. Even bloody qpr do a bit of fitness work

[Woolly Mammoth]

And who was it said pre season doesn't matter.
R

Nobody ever

That is totally incorrect.  This was debated at length during the summer, I was strongly of the view that the lack of a meaningful pre-season would cost us points and was told by several posters that pre-season games are; meaningless and of no consequence.

Yes I remember those ill judged, naive and inexperienced remarks made by posters who have no understanding of the concept of Preparation, Organisation and Conditioning, as well as the importance of moulding players into a familiarised unit.
One of the best ways to accelerate that in practice is the emphasis on familiarity and the importance and awareness of valueing your team mates, and the principle of one for all and all for one.
This does not happen overnight, and it relies on the cooperation of all those involved.
You cannot just press a button, we are dealing with human beings.
If a team of individual players can master those core principles, to form a heart beat and a team spirit, into a fighting unit, then that in itself can be as good as a goal start.

Would you mind finding me one poster who stated that having a period of training prior to our first league game was a waste of time?

As flowery as your explanation was, you really didn't need to explain the benefits of pre-season?  Every club in every league in every country has done it forever. Even pub teams have a kickabout a couple of weeks before the first match. Even bloody qpr do a bit of fitness work

I have neither a reason or a desire to adhere to your request to find you one poster, you want it you find it. They know who they are as I do. But that is not the point, the point is that if you fail to prepare, then prepare to fail.
Nevertheless in Fulhams case, they have enough quality to overcome the initial difficulties Fulham are finding due to something they may or may not have had no control over, due to circumstances beyond their control.
My point is that because of the lack of time we had to go through a rigid preparation process, and I am not putting the blame on anyone, just stating the difficulties of the fall out from having to catch up,
it is what it is, a fact of life. I am just stating the fact.
Then we may have to lose a few matches first and foremost before we start our unbeaten run.
I am prepared to wait.

[RaySmith]

Obviously clubs need pre-season training - to get fit after the summer break, often with new players and even new managers, who need to get used to each other, and this includes playing friendlies.

But, the result of the friendlies have never  previously been seen as that important, because of players not wanting to risk injury, experimental line-ups, etc.

This concern with the importance  friendly results seems quite a new thing, and the publicity given to them.

In Fulham's case, a number of new players, who will feature in the first team, weren't even here for our friendlies.

Pre-season training at clubs has traditionally been very hard, getting players back into shape ready for the campaign ahead, though now players tend to follow personalised training regimes even when on holiday, and  follow dietary programmes, and can be penalised if they return from holiday grossly  overweight or unfit, as some might n the past.

Also, the   summer break is shorter than previously, especially for Fulham , playing in the Final at Wembley.

Anyway, I dont think anyone anyone here would say that pre-season isn't of great importance in preparation for a tough season, but that  friendly results themselves aren't that important.

Personally, I don't think we did too badly in pre-season friendlies, considering, and some new players did get run outs with their new teammates.

Obviously, the more players  can get used to playing togther the better, and no-one would argue that Fulham's case, of bringing a number of first team players in  a week before the season's start, with some needing work permits, etc, isn't problematic.

But  we have to accept it now, and get on with it, and  hope we can overcome this less than ideal situation.
I think all Fulham fans think it's brilliant the way the owners have financed getting in all these top quality players, and the club'sefforts to  get them in before the  transfer window closed, and we  know this will come good, but it doesn't happen overnight, but needs to be soner rather than later.

Imagine how people would have been moaning if we only had a couple of Championship quality players in , and were largely putting out the remnants of our winning team of last year, maybe with youngssters making up the numbers.

But I think things look very promising so far, considering all the new players.

COYW!!!!

[BedsFFC]

And who was it said pre season doesn't matter.
R

Nobody ever

That is totally incorrect.  This was debated at length during the summer, I was strongly of the view that the lack of a meaningful pre-season would cost us points and was told by several posters that pre-season games are; meaningless and of no consequence.

Yes I remember those ill judged, naive and inexperienced remarks made by posters who have no understanding of the concept of Preparation, Organisation and Conditioning, as well as the importance of moulding players into a familiarised unit.
One of the best ways to accelerate that in practice is the emphasis on familiarity and the importance and awareness of valueing your team mates, and the principle of one for all and all for one.
This does not happen overnight, and it relies on the cooperation of all those involved.
You cannot just press a button, we are dealing with human beings.
If a team of individual players can master those core principles, to form a heart beat and a team spirit, into a fighting unit, then that in itself can be as good as a goal start.

Would you mind finding me one poster who stated that having a period of training prior to our first league game was a waste of time?

As flowery as your explanation was, you really didn't need to explain the benefits of pre-season?  Every club in every league in every country has done it forever. Even pub teams have a kickabout a couple of weeks before the first match. Even bloody qpr do a bit of fitness work

I have neither a reason or a desire to adhere to your request to find you one poster, you want it you find it.

Sorry, just assumed you had lot's of time on your hands

[toshes mate]

This wouldn't have been a problem if we had a decent squad to build on.

This is where I believe the damage was really done and was the product of several 'bad' windows in succession when we could have been a little more ambitious in seeking out the 'right' players to fit the mould that SJ was developing.  We also know there was an element of good fortune in the loan signing of Mitro.  For sure the WC would have influenced the method by which approaches for players could be best arranged, but I believe we made life difficult for ourselves by persisting with a flawed recruitment regime.   Who is to blame for that would need a public inquiry with evidence and it isn't ever going to happen.  Some folks just never allow their dirty laundry to be exposed.

[General]

Think you have head in the clouds. We have all our business already done this year whereas most years we'd still be waiting a couple of more weeks.. whilst we need time to gel, the closing on the window before the season starts has arguably left us at a greater advantage than normal.

Clutching at straws. There's a huge emotional process quite a few people need to go through when transferring between clubs and even more so between cultures and countries.

We had a lot of players come in and all before the transfer window and did more business than most.

As I said your clutching at straws... even more so in a world cup year.