News:

Use a VPN to stream games Safely and Securely 🔒
A Virtual Private Network can also allow you to
watch games Not being broadcast in the UK For
more Information and how to Sign Up go to
https://go.nordvpn.net/SH4FE

Main Menu


Consistent back four

Started by Bassey the warrior, September 17, 2018, 01:09:12 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Holders

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on September 17, 2018, 07:16:18 PM
Quote from: Holders on September 17, 2018, 06:32:12 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on September 17, 2018, 05:56:44 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 17, 2018, 05:38:13 PM
Quote from: HV71 on September 17, 2018, 04:47:17 PM
Quote from: Holders on September 17, 2018, 04:41:39 PM
Only 5 games have gone, Odoi was suspended, Mawson was injured and Ream still is.

Precisely - we need to be patient and trust in Slav

I understand the fact that only 5 games have come and gone so too early to make too many conclusions. But I never understand the 'Trust in Slav' rhetoric. I always question every decision by the so called experts. In Politics, medicine, sport. Trust no one as somebody once said. But then I do go overboard with the warm fuzzy feeling I have when things work out in football. Not a feeling I have with politicians or Doctors.

I have to agree with Lighthouse here on all his salient points. I can never understand this trust in the Manager melachy.
Try not to take the so called experts word for it, it's always prudent to ask questions and think for yourself.
There have been many errors of judgement by qualified professionals.
Two examples come straight to mind of poor decision making.

1) When Abraham Lincoln said, ime fed up kicking around the house let's go take in a show.

2) Also when Olaf The Hairy, Warrior King of the Vikings, ordered 80,000 War Helmets with the Horns sticking out from the inside.


Viking helmets did not have horns, inside or out.

I did not say they were Viking Helmets oh wise one, I said they were War Helmets.
He just happened to be the Warrior King of the Vikings, nobody said they were going to wear them.
You must keep up and pay more attention.


It's a common fallacy - blame Bayreuth or Hollywood.
Non sumus statione ferriviaria

Woolly Mammoth

#21
Quote from: Holders on September 17, 2018, 07:18:29 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on September 17, 2018, 07:16:18 PM
Quote from: Holders on September 17, 2018, 06:32:12 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on September 17, 2018, 05:56:44 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 17, 2018, 05:38:13 PM
Quote from: HV71 on September 17, 2018, 04:47:17 PM
Quote from: Holders on September 17, 2018, 04:41:39 PM
Only 5 games have gone, Odoi was suspended, Mawson was injured and Ream still is.

Precisely - we need to be patient and trust in Slav

I understand the fact that only 5 games have come and gone so too early to make too many conclusions. But I never understand the 'Trust in Slav' rhetoric. I always question every decision by the so called experts. In Politics, medicine, sport. Trust no one as somebody once said. But then I do go overboard with the warm fuzzy feeling I have when things work out in football. Not a feeling I have with politicians or Doctors.

I have to agree with Lighthouse here on all his salient points. I can never understand this trust in the Manager melachy.
Try not to take the so called experts word for it, it's always prudent to ask questions and think for yourself.
There have been many errors of judgement by qualified professionals.
Two examples come straight to mind of poor decision making.

1) When Abraham Lincoln said, ime fed up kicking around the house let's go take in a show.

2) Also when Olaf The Hairy, Warrior King of the Vikings, ordered 80,000 War Helmets with the Horns sticking out from the inside.


Viking helmets did not have horns, inside or out.

I did not say they were Viking Helmets oh wise one, I said they were War Helmets.
He just happened to be the Warrior King of the Vikings, nobody said they were going to wear them.
You must keep up and pay more attention.


It's a common fallacy - blame Bayreuth or Hollywood.

I agree, personally I blame Neil Warlock. 
Its not the man in the fight, it's the fight in the man.  🐘

Never forget your Roots.

HV71

I think I could blame Warnock for everything - though his parents should take most of the flak for not taking precautions


Fernhurst

Quote from: Lighthouse on September 17, 2018, 02:38:38 PM
But he has already stated that he isn't looking for a settled 11 but a team for each game. His idea is each game is different. Clearly the full backs are going to be constantly altered. The centre halves too. So his idea is not to have a settle back 4.



IMHO we still need to find a Van Dijk (without the arrogance) to play alongside Alfie
The atmosphere's fresh and the debate lively.

Bassey the warrior

Quote from: Fernhurst on September 18, 2018, 05:27:39 AM
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 17, 2018, 02:38:38 PM
But he has already stated that he isn't looking for a settled 11 but a team for each game. His idea is each game is different. Clearly the full backs are going to be constantly altered. The centre halves too. So his idea is not to have a settle back 4.



IMHO we still need to find a Van Dijk (without the arrogance) to play alongside Alfie

If we have a spare £75 million lying around.

toshes mate

I don't for one minute believe you can fix a defensive back line without also adjusting the midfield and perhaps even the attack to compliment the individual components of each. 

Lighthouse mentions the 'trust in Slav' mantra but then ruins his argument by quoting one of the most imprecise professions there are – politics.  Politicians are successful from the moment they secure a seat and may unleash havoc until kicked out by another vote.   At least doctors must make judgements based on knowledge of conditions and adjust the former as the latter becomes clearer.   Professional football likewise has a condition – results and league position – that need constant reflection and review, with adjustments in coaching teams, player routines, skills and partnerships in a team.

We are barely a month into a season (especially allowing for the International break) with a fairly large quantity of unknowns even among players who have had the odd really good or really poor performances.  The blending in of player patterns and partnerships is always thrown around by 'injury', changes in personnel in one area causing other problems to ensue.  And, of course, the coaching personnel have changed too, meaning another set of unknown strengths and weaknesses.

And so I always find it helpful to simply look at what appears to be similar evidence of things that have happened before and suggest the 'team' we will see in 'however long it takes' will be a much better guide to what we have, what we lack, and where we are across the whole length and width of our beloved football club.  And so please, when you argue about this defence or that defence, this midfield or that midfield, this player or that player, do have a little regard for how combinations smoothly engage or not as the case may be.

Had this team been playing together for a couple of years then the arguments may have much more merit, but that isn't the case.   I 'trust' that SJ will sort it out because I cannot for the life of me think of anyone who'd do a better job   without causing major disruption to almost every other aspect of running a football team. 


Lighthouse

The latest training at the Cottage pictures and film show Ream is running and joining in.  We don't know how fit he is. But after I understand was a back problem he is at least shown running and stretching.
The above IS NOT A LEGAL DOCUMENT. It is an opinion.

We may yet hear the horse talk.

I can stand my own despair but not others hope

hovewhite

Warnock is an abrasive character in funny way I like him.

Lyle from Hangeland

Fans have no power or authority to remove a manager or force them into certain decisions. Fans can only bloviate and hope the owner or board are moved to do something. That's where trusting the manager comes in. He isn't a politician to be voted out of office or a doctor you can choose to not see. He is the Fulham manager today. He's the football guy in charge. All there is hope.


Lighthouse

#29
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on September 18, 2018, 06:42:53 PM
Fans have no power or authority to remove a manager or force them into certain decisions. Fans can only bloviate and hope the owner or board are moved to do something. That's where trusting the manager comes in. He isn't a politician to be voted out of office or a doctor you can choose to not see. He is the Fulham manager today. He's the football guy in charge. All there is hope.

Simply not true. If a manager is doing a poor job. Like a politician the fans will stop voting for him. They will simply stop turning out in numbers. They will voice their annoyance during games and put pressure on players. No different to Politicians. A doctor who makes mistakes or has a poorly run practice or doesn't inspire confidence in his patients loses them and they will turn elsewhere if he or she  is very bad. In fact trust in anything goes only so far. If a doctor has misdiagnosed something or over prescribed a drug and ruined my life. I no longer can put trust in any medical professional. If a politician lets me down and cause me aggro. Then I tend not to trust any politicians. The same with football managers and all human beings. Only those who have never had people make decisions on their behalf and it turns out badly will understand. But for those that have. Putting your trust in so called experts and having people tell you we must blindly trust them and offer no criticism is simply bizarre. Whatever their profession.

While the ultimate decision is always somebody in the hierarchy. The patient, voter or fan does hold sway.
The above IS NOT A LEGAL DOCUMENT. It is an opinion.

We may yet hear the horse talk.

I can stand my own despair but not others hope

Lyle from Hangeland

Quote from: Lighthouse on September 18, 2018, 07:47:54 PM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on September 18, 2018, 06:42:53 PM
Fans have no power or authority to remove a manager or force them into certain decisions. Fans can only bloviate and hope the owner or board are moved to do something. That's where trusting the manager comes in. He isn't a politician to be voted out of office or a doctor you can choose to not see. He is the Fulham manager today. He's the football guy in charge. All there is hope.

Simply not true. If a manager is doing a poor job. Like a politician the fans will stop voting for him. They will simply stop turning out in numbers. They will voice their annoyance during games and put pressure on players. No different to Politicians. A doctor who makes mistakes or has a poorly run practice or doesn't inspire confidence in his patients loses them and they will turn elsewhere if he or she  is very bad. In fact trust in anything goes only so far. If a doctor has misdiagnosed something or over prescribed a drug and ruined my life. I no longer can put trust in any medical professional. If a politician lets me down and cause me aggro. Then I tend not to trust any politicians. The same with football managers and all human beings. Only those who have never had people make decisions on their behalf and it turns out badly will understand. But for those that have. Putting your trust in so called experts and having people tell you we must blindly trust them and offer no criticism is simply bizarre. Whatever their profession.

While the ultimate decision is always somebody in the hierarchy. The patient, voter or fan does hold sway.

You seem to actually agree with what I'm saying. Fans can only voice their opinions, protest, or boycott. That's not power... that's hope. Managers aren't elected and if you are a fan of the club you will show up regardless of who is the manager... unless you're boycotting or quitting on the club. Did anti-Wenger fans fail to show up to even away games for Arsenal? No... they did not.

Lighthouse

Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on September 18, 2018, 08:40:19 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 18, 2018, 07:47:54 PM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on September 18, 2018, 06:42:53 PM
Fans have no power or authority to remove a manager or force them into certain decisions. Fans can only bloviate and hope the owner or board are moved to do something. That's where trusting the manager comes in. He isn't a politician to be voted out of office or a doctor you can choose to not see. He is the Fulham manager today. He's the football guy in charge. All there is hope.

Simply not true. If a manager is doing a poor job. Like a politician the fans will stop voting for him. They will simply stop turning out in numbers. They will voice their annoyance during games and put pressure on players. No different to Politicians. A doctor who makes mistakes or has a poorly run practice or doesn't inspire confidence in his patients loses them and they will turn elsewhere if he or she  is very bad. In fact trust in anything goes only so far. If a doctor has misdiagnosed something or over prescribed a drug and ruined my life. I no longer can put trust in any medical professional. If a politician lets me down and cause me aggro. Then I tend not to trust any politicians. The same with football managers and all human beings. Only those who have never had people make decisions on their behalf and it turns out badly will understand. But for those that have. Putting your trust in so called experts and having people tell you we must blindly trust them and offer no criticism is simply bizarre. Whatever their profession.

While the ultimate decision is always somebody in the hierarchy. The patient, voter or fan does hold sway.

You seem to actually agree with what I'm saying. Fans can only voice their opinions, protest, or boycott. That's not power... that's hope. Managers aren't elected and if you are a fan of the club you will show up regardless of who is the manager... unless you're boycotting or quitting on the club. Did anti-Wenger fans fail to show up to even away games for Arsenal? No... they did not.

Well we are getting into semantics. Is it hope or power that I stick with a political party that has failed in everything but is better than another political party that my loyalty wouldn't allow me to vote for? Loyalty to a failing club or the NHS or Political Party doesn't change the fact that we have power as a collection of individuals if we choose to act on it. If however our loyalty to a particular cause outweighs the logic of changing things for the better then we end up with the system we have. A failing NHS. a failing democracy and a football league and world football organisation run by a group of self serving people. We have the power but you are right in saying loyalty or false loyalty to certain things may stop us acting for the better. Anti Wenger fans had the power to voice their disapproval and often did. But turning up and being loyal to the club made their individual power less dramatic. But they had the power if they wanted to use it. 
The above IS NOT A LEGAL DOCUMENT. It is an opinion.

We may yet hear the horse talk.

I can stand my own despair but not others hope


Woolly Mammoth

I would rather settle for a settled back four.
Its not the man in the fight, it's the fight in the man.  🐘

Never forget your Roots.

RaySmith

#33
Well, a football manager stands and fall by results.
Whatever critcisms we make of Slavisa, if he keeps us I the Prem this season,, or does even better than mere survival, most will still  back him.

Last season ,  some on here were questioning him - talking of sacking him right up to almost the halfway point of the season, then he became a hero.

But that glow  doesn't seem to have lasted long, but if we begin to get decent results, he will be  a hero again.
I do trust Slavisa, and think whatever decisions he makes re Fulham, based on his professional experience, are  going to be better and  more well informed than mine.

I don't trust  doctors, though, or politicians, generally - I don't think they always take decisions based on my best interests, but I do think Slavisa will take decisions based on what he thinks are the best interests of FFC - after all, he stands and falls purely by results, whereas when did a doctor get  sacked, even for serious  errors causing great distress and suffering - rarely is the answer, they usually get away with it, and with an arrogant attitude towards those  they are supposed to care for, and as for politicians....!

The old mucker

Totally agree with Stefan,this is our best back four without ream,and slav should stick with them