Author Topic: BACK 3 / WING-BACKS / CHRISTIE  (Read 932 times)

Offline garyclashcityrocker

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BACK 3 / WING-BACKS / CHRISTIE
« on: October 11, 2018, 11:59:26 AM »
I keep reading on multiple threads about Christie's performance on Sunday and getting a right roasting by many for 'getting caught out upfield'.  Sorry....but Christie played to position and instruction. What he did in possession of the ball is open to debate, but as far as playing as a wing-back in a back three formation he did nothing wrong.
The whole ethos behind a back three is that the wing-backs are in the main relieved of constant defending duties. It is the defensive midfielder's job (in the case Anguissa?) who has the responsibility of dropping deeper to create a four as the need arises, something he failed in the main to do and was the root cause of Iwobi getting as much joy as he did. On both sides I hasten to add as switched a few times, which should also implicate Sess.
The idea with the three at the back is that you play two stand up center-halves who don't dive into the challenge but protect the space with a sweeper type (normally the quicker of the three) to mop up.
So although the wing-backs are not absolved of defending, their primary objective is an attacking one, which in the main both Cyrus & Sess delivered upon if not always with the final ball.

So regardless of how they played they were actually adhering to the plan and playing to position. If anyone hadn't read the memo it was Frank.

Offline BedsFFC

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Re: BACK 3 / WING-BACKS / CHRISTIE
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2018, 12:18:52 PM »
I think you could be right on Christie but wrong on Zambo.

Could it be that our tactics are to hit teams hard from the start, get a lead and then perhaps sit back and hit on break?

The "get a lead" bit is proving a bit elusive.

I'm only surmising, obviously.

Offline hovewhite

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Re: BACK 3 / WING-BACKS / CHRISTIE
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2018, 12:54:58 PM »
That's a novel idea score first!!


Offline SuffolkWhite

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Re: BACK 3 / WING-BACKS / CHRISTIE
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2018, 02:54:24 PM »
I think tactics need looking at, and team needs to gel, I have said this several times. And time is needed and Management and players have to learn about each other as well as adapt to the Prem.


Ultimately its a different tactic that needs to be thought about.....In Slav I trust to find that.

Offline toshes mate

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Re: BACK 3 / WING-BACKS / CHRISTIE
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2018, 03:21:39 PM »
I know I may be old fashioned but a wing back without defensive duties is normally called a 'winger' and it is this that is the really big difference between the two. 

Offline Woolly Mammoth

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Re: BACK 3 / WING-BACKS / CHRISTIE
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2018, 03:26:33 PM »
We’ll surely our crack recruiting unit, must research and gather background information as to the type of character and individual players are in a team sport, and I am not talking about stats.
Because signing players on from different parts of the world, who have never experienced either visiting or playing in England carries a bigger risk of whether they will settle, and the length of time it takes, and the language barrier.
Because is it worth these risks, if players are not punching their weight.
In excess of £100 million English Pounds was invested prior to the commencement of the season, and taking away unexpected injuries, and I am still quietly confident that things will improve.
But as each defeat and under par performance goes by, then I would imagine questions will be asked, and rightly so.
We must remember that the most successful teams, the teams that punch above their weight, the teams who are a close unit and will commit 100% to their manager, and have the biggest heart beat, are the teams who have players sitting in every corner of the Dressing room, who have a common United goal, and play for the team, and each other, everyone a players player.

« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 03:30:31 PM by Woolly Mammoth »


Offline HV71

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Re: BACK 3 / WING-BACKS / CHRISTIE
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2018, 03:27:50 PM »
Probably wing forward rather than wing back . There just maybe a clue in the name

Offline hovewhite

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Re: BACK 3 / WING-BACKS / CHRISTIE
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2018, 03:58:57 PM »
We’ll surely our crack recruiting unit, must research and gather background information as to the type of character and individual players are in a team sport, and I am not talking about stats.
Because signing players on from different parts of the world, who have never experienced either visiting or playing in England carries a bigger risk of whether they will settle, and the length of time it takes, and the language barrier.
Because is it worth these risks, if players are not punching their weight.
In excess of £100 million English Pounds was invested prior to the commencement of the season, and taking away unexpected injuries, and I am still quietly confident that things will improve.
But as each defeat and under par performance goes by, then I would imagine questions will be asked, and rightly so.
We must remember that the most successful teams, the teams that punch above their weight, the teams who are a close unit and will commit 100% to their manager, and have the biggest heart beat, are the teams who have players sitting in every corner of the Dressing room, who have a common United goal, and play for the team, and each other, everyone a players player.


lthats a great piont a togetherness is lacking, whereas last year it was there,also 3of that back four were together 2seasons again a togetherness as a unit propely drilled,we don't have that now and any coach would struggle and add to that injured 1st picks in the team.

Offline garyclashcityrocker

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Re: BACK 3 / WING-BACKS / CHRISTIE
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2018, 04:19:35 PM »
Toshes Mate.

Like you I'm old fashioned and agree with your point. It's sematics....but wing backs are indeed wingers charged with supplying balls into the box from slightly deeper positions. Diagonal balls rather than byline crosses, which are now supplied in theory by the overlapping fullbacks when playing with a back four.

Modern day wingers??? don't get me started. Those classed as wingers now invariable have no intention of crossing, play on the opposite side and only look to cut in and shoot.

I long for the day of proper wingers who run at defenders with the ball at their feet, dribble, get to the byline and cross and defenders defended.

My mouth waters at the thought of John Morley, Davie Cooper, Georgie Armstrong, Dave Thomas, Charlie Cook, Mike Summerbee and Les Barratt. Bygone and much missed age.

The trouble is 'football tactics' and 'playing styles' have changed and not for the better. The language used has changed along with the so called progressive ideas, but in reality they've just made a simple game sound more complicated than it actually is. Danny Kaye called it in 'The Emperor's New Clothes'

The coaching seminar's I attend these days only complicate understanding as the 'whole wing-back' thing originally quoted testifies too.


Offline toshes mate

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Re: BACK 3 / WING-BACKS / CHRISTIE
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2018, 04:52:29 PM »
I once enjoyed 'total football' as it was called at the time where every player was skilled enough to do their bit whist having a specialism that, if really special, made them worth their weight in gold. 

These days, as in cricket, players are required to have skills in more than one discipline but the variations in ability and success are enormous.  Some players make it work with a certain team formation and players but are hopeless replicating it elsewhere which is why I have always believe you retain what works for players and therefore works for the success of your Club.  Then you can upgrade if you spot a player with the same skill and mindset but technically better.  That fails when you do not research the incoming player properly or base your findings on misleading or deceptive factors.  To accommodate such a change then leads to minor but difficult to implement changes in other players' duties or tactics and the danger is the whole thing becomes chaotic.

FFC in my opinion have a double, triple or worse case of chaos.

Offline MJG

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Re: BACK 3 / WING-BACKS / CHRISTIE
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2018, 04:58:38 PM »
Anyway my rule is full backs are just failed wingers anyway.

Offline filham

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Re: BACK 3 / WING-BACKS / CHRISTIE
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2018, 05:26:45 PM »
Ask Roy , he new the answers.


Offline Denver Fulham

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Re: BACK 3 / WING-BACKS / CHRISTIE
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2018, 05:46:57 PM »
If Slav's strategy was to have Anguissa repeatedly dropping into the back three to either cover the wing or have Odoi slide over, leaving us with ONE midfielder in the center of the park against a 4-2-2-2, then he should be immediately fired ... because that's insane. We already are playing three attackers who don't track back in defense very well. You're suggesting that Christie also was free of that responsibilty, in a 3-4-3 formation? Nonsense to me. Sess did the same job just fine on the left.

Offline MikeW

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Re: BACK 3 / WING-BACKS / CHRISTIE
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2018, 05:54:03 PM »
Denver Fulham - sorry but seriously take issue that Mitro does not defend - against Everton he won more clearing headers than either of our centre backs.  I watched him.  And a number of the Everton fans I was surrounded by agreed!

Offline MJG

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Re: BACK 3 / WING-BACKS / CHRISTIE
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2018, 05:55:24 PM »
A wing back system should either pivot so that when one full back is advanced the other full on the other side drops back and the CB's move over to become a four. Or one of three MFs would drop into the missing full back position or a CB area and a CB moves over. At least that's how I coached it.


Offline Beamer

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Re: BACK 3 / WING-BACKS / CHRISTIE
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2018, 06:08:28 PM »
Maybe he should be classed as a wander-back because that's all he seemed to do when our attacks broke down.

Offline I Ronic

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Re: BACK 3 / WING-BACKS / CHRISTIE
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2018, 10:06:40 PM »
I think tactics need looking at, and team needs to gel, I have said this several times. And time is needed and Management and players have to learn about each other as well as adapt to the Prem.


Ultimately its a different tactic that needs to be thought about.....In Slav I trust to find that.

I'll go with that. Buying up grades on last year's model while a good idea wasn't really going to work . The club have brought well, those players need to find there roles and work at it. I'd much prefer Slav sticking to his principles and we play a possession based game. If it sends us down. So be it. We've had plenty of players in our past who didn't hit the ground running. So there's nothing new there. We've had bad starts to Premiership seasons before and survived all but one. 

Offline Mitrovic the warrior

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Re: BACK 3 / WING-BACKS / CHRISTIE
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2018, 10:39:10 PM »
It's not nice to find scapegoats but Christie really offered nothing at either ends of the pitch. No end product bar one really good cross to be fair, defensively he doesn't run back, just casually strolls, which is unacceptable. Sess did much better at both ends of the pitch.

Offline Denver Fulham

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Re: BACK 3 / WING-BACKS / CHRISTIE
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2018, 12:42:52 AM »
Denver Fulham - sorry but seriously take issue that Mitro does not defend - against Everton he won more clearing headers than either of our centre backs.  I watched him.  And a number of the Everton fans I was surrounded by agreed!

Not in transition, which is what I was referring to. He's excellent on set piece headers. He's not (and should not) be expected to be tracking back into our third to track runners or whatever. Combine him with two wingers who don't really pitch in, and this is why we're talking about personnel changes. Against the better teams in the league, I don't think we can play Schurrle and Vietto at the same time. We're way too vulnerable unless we have a ton of the ball.

Anyway, I agree with Mike. The off-wing wingback can drop back and the center backs can slide over. Thinking Anguissa should be doing that is wrong, imo, especially when we were already outnumbered in the middle of the park. Both of our wingbacks seemed to get caught high when we turned the ball over or lost a 50-50 ball and Arsenal broke. Just m.o.

Offline Asotosyios

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Re: BACK 3 / WING-BACKS / CHRISTIE
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2018, 12:20:45 PM »
I think tactics need looking at, and team needs to gel, I have said this several times. And time is needed and Management and players have to learn about each other as well as adapt to the Prem.


Ultimately its a different tactic that needs to be thought about.....In Slav I trust to find that.

I'll go with that. Buying up grades on last year's model while a good idea wasn't really going to work . The club have brought well, those players need to find there roles and work at it. I'd much prefer Slav sticking to his principles and we play a possession based game. If it sends us down. So be it. We've had plenty of players in our past who didn't hit the ground running. So there's nothing new there. We've had bad starts to Premiership seasons before and survived all but one. 

+1