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View from Cardiff

Started by terryr, October 17, 2018, 09:58:26 AM

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terryr

Surprisingly, there's a fair bit on their boards. Wales playing not withstanding, the International break seems to have focused their minds on Fulham and the next game (earlier than usual for opposing team forums).

"Don't care about you guys who continue to think we are doing fine and playing well etc etc. Simple we don't win against Fulham we are down."

" True but keep the faith mate "

" My faith ends after the Fulham game"

" We had to beat Burnley"

"  SURELY SURELY ITS A MUST "

Win for Cardiff City v Fulham a week on Saturday at home, No ifs or buts, no accepting a hard fought draw , no saying we played well but only just lost, I would rather say Fulham were the better team, but we got the 3pts  :thumbright:  :bluebird:
We can't afford the gap to get any bigger or lose our battling performances, We need 3pts end off as the players heads and the fans hearts will sink if we lose or draw again in my opinion.
Our fans deserve at least a small bit of success, a win would build confidence and keep us on a high in the stadium  :bluebird:
Anyone disagree?"

" Yeah, I disagree quite strongly actually.
That sort of talk doesn't do anything but build pressure on the boys . It doesn't make any positive difference to the outcome, which will be whatever it will be. I don't think anyone's unaware that the opportunities are gradually getting smaller , but that's not dependant on one particular result.
They must approach each game in the knowledge that they must improve again form the last and intending to win and providing they continue to improve I think they'll start winning enough games to eventually finish mid table. The most likely thing to bugger that up is the endlessly building pressure and the danger of becoming psychologically overwhelmed by expectation.

There's so much unhelpful comment and target setting, ( quicker and more scathing than I've ever seen it in any other club actually), that Sir Neil will soon be at the stage of having to convince the players to ignore what supporters are saying in the hope that they'll be able to shut it out and continue to perform. That's the edge of a real collapse, by the way.

Think about it - if you were a player, how totally committed could you be to fans who repeatedly belittle your efforts ?
The recent success of this club has been far more about a sense of unity and players putting in 110% for the supporters and the city than spectacular skills, and the potential downfall might be the reverse of that if we're not very very careful.

"They know they need to start winning some games I expect , so let's not issuing them with ultimatums. Their heads are really not going to be in the best place for this game if they're being told it's their last chance and, given the fact that they've been trying their very very best for the fans so far , well it'd only be human for them to get subconsciously angry with them if they're constantly belittling the players and managers.
Loyalty breeds loyalty ,and loyalty earns commitment, but like all equations , the opposite is also true. The fans can add something to the performance if they conduct themselves in one way or totally demotivate the team if they offer support with conditions and strings attached.
Of course I'm not suggesting that your comments are disloyal or destructive - that's aimed at some others. I am saying though that talk of " must win" games, however well intentioned, can have the same net effect.
Col Travis famously told his men at the Alamo that the two alternatives were "death or glory", and we know how well that went. On the other hand, Churchill's message that we should "fight them on the beaches, fight them in the streets and never surrender", even after Dunkirk , was a wiser strategy , expressing as it did a complete faith in the British forces and people to prevail in the end and not be halted in that intention by serious setbacks. Of course that faith and confidence inspired everyone to find hidden reserves when it was needed.
In short, let's send those boys out determined to win, NOT frightened to lose !"

" For anyone who couldn't be bothered to read all of SJS's post.........you should, the guy is talking a lot of sense.  :thumbup:

But coming back to the OP, and the question of "Surely Surely it's a must".....anyone disagree? I disagree.
A must win only comes at the back end of a season, when it's a mathematical certainty that a win gets you promoted, or a defeat sends you down. We are nowhere near that yet so now is not the time to panic. Obviously every true City fan on this board is craving for our 1st win. me included, and Fulham looks like an opportunity not to be missed.
But football is a funny old game and what will be will be. As long as Warnock is at the helm I will never stop believing in this team. Our points to date don't reflect what we have deserved IMO, but over a full season the luck will even out.
Annis, you more than most know what it's like to be in the dungeon, with a real fear of dropping out of the football league. So to be in the position we are now is incredible. I can't remember unity from so many. It was easy for us to be unified when we had crowds of 3 to 4,000, but to have the unity of 20,000 plus is a feat in itself.
I have faith in this team, and I have even more faith in our Manager. Come what may against Fulham.......but whatever the result there is one thing I know.......we will never surrender."

" We lose. Warnock walks."

"Mate not being funny who else is going to make a difference?
The problem lies in our team and the lack of quality and lack of depth not in our manager."

" Not being funny mate but who is ultimately responsible for the quality and the depth of our squad,yes that's right Warnock!!"

" No idea mate,Just think his time is up. It's up to the board and owner to get things right. I want to be wrong and Warnock to turn it around but I can't see it. It comes to something when Annis posts his op about 3 pts being the only thing good enough. It's mid October and we have must win games."

" The fulham manager should be under more pressure than our neil at least we gave arsenal a game 2 3 fulham loosing at home 1 5 and have spent 100 million plus i cannot believe people saying its Neil's last we have played the top 5 after Liverpool and i am sure we will improve and get our wins and who do the f..k do you think could do a better job than neil the team have a good relationship with neil and we did this last time around panicking and ended up with a rookie ogs, lets see how we go see what comes in january with some recruits."

" Obviously a win would be a massive boost especially with Liverpool up afterwards,but I wouldn't label a game must win in October."

" It's not up to fans to recruit managers it's up to boards, owners and agents to make these hard decisions. We didn't really panick last time, Malky messed up big time with his antics. This time the industry has changed and the current incumbent is out of his depth. No backing hasn't helped him much. He needs that first win to stay in a job. If he doesn't get it against Fulham then will be the time to act."

" We win. We go above Fulham despite them spending four times as mch as us and Jokanović walks then i guess..."

" Maybe, that's their problem"

" Plastics want sexy big name managers"

" It's a massive massive game no doubt about it.
I think must win is used to often and to inaccurately, no game at this point in the season is must win."

" Looking back over the last few seasons and Fulham seem to be the team we struggle against, mostly ending in a hard fought draw.
Hopefully Gunners is fit when he comes back from international duty to give NW more options in midfield especially since we won't have Ralls."

" I thought the Burnley game was a Must Win game at the time ."

" Bit early for must win but it will do our confidence a great boost to do so ! Prefer wait end Nov to get to that stage as lot of points that can be won up to then."

" Any team from 12th downwards are capable of relegation. I'd probably add Watford to that list who got lucky in a couple of games early season and are capable of going months without a win (as is any team in the bottom half of the table).
If I was a betting man (and I am), then I'd say that we are probably going to be in the bottom 3 at the end of the season. But it's not a foregone conclusion as some people seem to think.
As for Warnock, there is no point in getting rid of him at the moment. If we do get relegated, then we need him to get us back up again.There are two occasions when I see the need for Warnock to go :-
1. If we stay up this season, then Warnock should stand down and let a new man come into hopefully move us forward.
2. If we get relegated, then Warnock should go at the end of next season , whether he gets us promoted again or not."

" The biggest weapon in our armoury is the unbelievable passion, noise and support that this team has received and will continue to get no matter what. Our support home and away has been bloody magnificent and even if we do end up going down it won't be without a fight and I would rather be a proud Bluebird with our phenomenal fans than follow any other team. "

"That's the spirit !
So pleased to see these last few comments. Let's INTEND to do this and not be daunted by setbacks.
"You just can't stop a good man who keeps on a' coming"

" It's a must win game for me. Doesn't have to be the last game of the season for this to be the case.
We lose, we're 6 points adrift and with Liverpool away next then the gap will probably get even bigger.
The most IMPORTANT thing is not to get cut adrift this early in the season as we may not be able to claw things back as we'll need to win a few games to do this and that's looking almost impossible at the moment."

" I agree that in the mental state of desperate panic you recommend it would certainly be impossible, and that's why we must remain calm."

" I don't often predict things but I do predict this will not be the last..
we have to beat { whoever } thread from you this season no matter how we get on against Fulham."

" The longer we go without winning I suppose some fans will expect or think we should against our weakest opponents. The players and management no doubt target certain fixtures for points. Given our position the op should be expecting a victory here. We gotta start sooner rather than later mate. I hope we can, even for Warnock to say up yours to everybody that's doubting him, even me.
Then improve and do it again"

" We are about 2 points lower than where i thought we would be at this point in the season.

At the start of the season i never expected anything from :

Man city
Arsenal
Tottenham
Chelsea
Burnley
Bournemouth

I expected to beat Huddersfield and hoped for something against Newcastle.

Out points will come from the bottom half teams:

Huddersfield
Brighton
Fulham
Watford
Newcastle
West Ham
Crysyal Palace
Southampton
Leicester

We need to beat all of these teams at least once this season to give us around 30 points
Add in a few unexpected draws and the odd win elsewhere and survival is possible.
We are not far off given the teams we have played who most of will finish top half or top 6.
Fulham home is a huge game, not must win but must get something and must not lose.
Once we get that first win i believe November/December/January when we play the lower table teams is when our season will be decided."

" A pretty fair assessment could be record low for staying up the gap from the top to the bottom is growing, I can see at least four teams from that list and us on very low points at the end of the season.
To have any hope of staying up we need a win very soon, Fulham are beatable, we just need to do a job on Mitrovic !!!"

" I've got news for you all we need to beat every bottom 10 team at home and get a draw off them when playing them away to get 40 points this season. We needed to have got:

Bournemouth (a) ... 1 pt
Newcastle (h) ... 3 pts
Huddersfield (a) ... 1 pt
Burnley (h) ... 3 pts

We are already 6 pts adrift of that target. Those are the facts. "

" Bournemouth and Burnley are both top 10 teams.
Burnley finished 7th last season and made Europe.
Bournemouth only lost out on a top 10 finish on goal-difference.
Newcastle also finished top half.
I wouldnt have expected anything from those games.
The only team we needed to beat so far was Huddersfield
We have had a very tough start playing 6 of last seasons top 10 in our first 8 games."

" Facts, yes. But hardly news. Allrhough, we can afford loosing points as long as we aquire it somewhere else.
Both highly unlikely, but don't forget! We are here for "the ride", so we can go back to dream of being where we are now. Ironically enough."

" I try to be positive but I also try not to let an emotional attachment to City get in the way of making a realistic assessment of City 2018-19.
Warnock, remarkably, got us punching well above our weight to get us promoted. Once a PL team I believe we needed to have prepared accordingly. The amount spent this summer (and on Championship players) was never going to move us a tremendous amount forward to becoming a PL club. I feel sorry for Warnock in that after doing so well last season he has not really been backed in the transfer market. A princely sum of £28m would just about get you one above average PL player. That said it perplexed me that our manager has said he was happy with that budget.
There seems to be generally two camps of City fans:
- those who are almost suicidal and predicting City will be down by Christmas and
- those who are almost delusional and say, 'Enjoy it.'
I am neither suicidal or delusional. However what is disturbing is that when fans seek to give an honest appraisal of the situation there is a reaction directed to them of being, 'negative.' This City fan has had far more opportunity to be negative, if I wanted to, during my 60 years following the Bluebirds.
My over-riding feeling as I write is one of great sadness that an opportunity has not been grasped and Warnock, admittedly limited by PL standards, has not been able to have a go due to a limited transfer budget.
Whilst spending money will not guarantee success; not spending money will guarantee you failure at PL level; however it must be said spending money wisely will give you every opportunity of success."

" Excellent post mate. I completely agree with your points here. The point of an opportunity has not been grasped is the perfect description of these matters.
Both Warnock but mainly Tan are culpable in not preparing us for a realistic survival bid. This league is ruthless, experience at this level is needed. We don't have it on and off the pitch."

" Will Fulham sack their manager?
All that money spent...."

" I hope so, I got 20 quid on him being next....had good odds too .
he is currently joint 2nd fav with Mark Hughes behind Mourinho who is odds on.."

" No chance,They will finish mid table"

" Easily and he'll probably be sought after by a bigger club"

" They will finish bottom absolutely awful defense and over reliant on Mitrovic"

" Lose to us and the pressure will certainly be on him."

" They will not sack their manager because of the money they spent.
Clubs got a habit of sacking managers when they struggle, I think they will stick with the manager no matter what just like us with Warnock."

" See now I think the opposite, if he isn't hey results after they money spent they will panic and replace him."

" 1-1"
Fulham traveller says ( turncoat)
" 1-0 Cardiff with Morrison scoring from a header mark my words
Put your mortgage on this Cardiff win"

" Every bookmaker featured at oddschecker.com make super City fave to win the encounter. I'll go for 2-1."

" City 1 Fulham 1"

" 2-0 to Fulham. At least we'll have a good singsong."

" City 2 - 1 Fulham"

" City 1 - 3 Fulham"

"Although Ralls will be a huge miss and I'm a fan of his, I do think it could be a blessing in disguise that he's suspended for this one. I feel we need to play a 3 in midfield against Fulham, and i might suggest that having our only natural 6 back in the side for this one will be a benefit (although i remain Gunnarsceptic). This will also allow a fully up to speed Camarasa to play centrally - I'm certainly looking forward to see him put Cairney and co on their arses.

The fulham back 4 have been a shambles conceding the most goals per game out of any team in the top 5 leagues of europe. It's a tough call up front, as I'm going 4-3-3 I think I'd go with Ward, he thrived against a similar style Arsenal back 4, but wouldn't be opposed to put Paterson on Odoi and Mawson - both have been brushed appart by lesser physically imposing players (which in itself could be a case for Ward) - lets not forget Paterson knows where the
net is too.

I'd go:

Etheridge

Manga
Bamba
Morrie
Bennett

Cama
Gunnar
Arter

Hoillett (for work rate)
Ward
Murphy

Subs: Smithies, Old Greg, Jazz, Paterson, Reid, Kadeem, Zohore.

" Other than swapping ward for reid I think this formation is OK. I think reid would have done well against Burnley."

" Fulham have been playing Denis Odoi at centre back, I would be surprised to see Paterson not in the side."

" Etheridge

Manga
Morrison
Cunningham
Bennett

Camarasa
Gunnarsson
Arter
Murphy

Paterson
Reid
Please and thank you Neil."

" Neil will through blind loyalty stick with Bamba - Mitrovic will be too much for Sol in my opinion"

" Need to smother the supply ,or just go for them up front ,with pace ,which we have , this is big game like the Burnley one for both sides ,would be nice for a bit of luck to go away as well ."

" You want to play Cunningham at centre back to counter Mitrovic when he got beaten in the air by Gudmundsson?"

" Just have Morrison cover him the entire of the game ? Sol's cons at this level far, far, far outweigh his pros. My dog could pass a ball better than him, and he knows when to stay put too."

" That won't work but if that was the case, Morrison could follow Mitrovic around and would remove your logic. If you want to drop Bamba, shift Manga inside and play Jazz at full back."

" 8 games in and I don't think any of us can name our best forward partnership - the sign of trouble."

"Change out Etheridge. When we're under siege it's painful watch him give the ball straight back to the other team.
Warnock needs to get him tested for colour blindness."

" Would do you expect him to do? Hit 60 yard passes like Paul scholes?

" In fairness to Etheridge, he's only playing to orders."

"  He wasn't great against Burnley granted but he was let down by those immediately in front of him.
BTW, not sure I've ever heard the phrase "change out".
Is it an Americanism?"

" Really got another bad feeling about this game. To be honest would take a draw nowould. That little squirt Sessignon always seems to score and with Mitrovic there too, I can't see us holding out for long. On the plus side we will probably score so that brings me to the team.
We need Gunnar back as holding player, but we also need our wingers to press hIgh. It seems crazy but our full back turned centre forward, Paterson is the one I am looking to score.
Etheridge
Manga
Bamba
Morrie
Bennett
Gunnar
Camarasa
Arter
Junior
Murphy
Paterson

That's it for today.
I'll check back Friday


Jimpav


Thanks Terry.

There's a lot of parallels with our own board.

They don't seem to fancy their chances to highly though.











Statto

One of them said Cardiff are favourites with the bookies. Just had a look and he's right. That is bloody depressing.


JoelH5

Quote from: Statto on October 17, 2018, 10:12:02 AM
One of them said Cardiff are favourites with the bookies. Just had a look and he's right. That is bloody depressing.

Just shows how poor the defence is set up. If you look at our first 11 Vs theirs, nearly every player at Fulham is better.
I was there, standing in the Putney end

Woolly Mammoth

I am very confident of a Fulham win, so much so that I am placing a monkey on a Fulham win.
Its not the man in the fight, it's the fight in the man.  🐘

Never forget your Roots.

Milo

#5
Lots of discussion about their own situation rather than game tactics or indeed their view of us as a team. Seems Warnock's gone from hero to zero pretty fast. Anymore post-match antics from him and I imagine those still standing by him will lose patience too.

They seem to think Jokanovic is more likely to be fired than we do as a board - that's quite interesting.

Also they think we have defensive frailty - no real surprises there.

Also noted the comment about needing 3 in midfield. Must be a hangover from last season when we used to dominate in midfield... haven't seen much of it so far this season due to the quality of the opposition.

It'll be a really interesting game to see how far we've come. Cardiff have largely stayed the same with regards personnel and tactics... whereas our team has had a £100m sprucing. If we lose... as the bookies seem to think we will.. we don't really have many excuses left, do we?


Count Flapula

Feel this is a game for Mawson at the back - someone with some physical presence who can counter their physicality as won't have to worry so much about pace and movement from their no.9, plus he needs game time to regain his sharpness.

Jimpav


If Jok can't hold his own tactically against Warnock then I think he will be gone before Christmas.

I dont think it will come to this though. We battered Burnley, had Brighton on the ropes and made a good account of ourselves in the second half against Watford.

Defence is a worry but I think we should be able to outscore Cardiff.

OdecaMynoT

Our defence will provide enough Leeks for their sunday lunch.

You can see it written in the history book of 'Fulhamish'; Cardiff get their first Premiership victory......................
D'er idee thic s'portin' Farlhum domajis d'er bloin iz two my moind obsquired.


BedsFFC

Quote from: Jimpav on October 17, 2018, 10:06:30 AM

Thanks Terry.

There's a lot of parallels with our own board.


I disagree. Apart from this bit.

Col Travis famously told his men at the Alamo that the two alternatives were "death or glory", and we know how well that went. On the other hand, Churchill's message that we should "fight them on the beaches, fight them in the streets and never surrender", even after Dunkirk , was a wiser strategy , expressing as it did a complete faith in the British forces and people to prevail in the end and not be halted in that intention by serious setbacks. Of course that faith and confidence inspired everyone to find hidden reserves when it was needed.

Southcoastffc

I'm still smiling at StefJo's sublime goal at the end of this:

https://www.fulhamfc.com/news/2018/october/16/cardiff-flashback

(May only be viewable if you subscribe to ffctv?)
The world is made up of electrons, protons, neurons, possibly muons and, definitely, morons.

Bassey the warrior

Quote from: Southcoastffc on October 17, 2018, 12:53:24 PM
I'm still smiling at StefJo's sublime goal at the end of this:

https://www.fulhamfc.com/news/2018/october/16/cardiff-flashback

(May only be viewable if you subscribe to ffctv?)

Yep pure class. Shame he's not brought his A game in his admittedly limited appearances this season.


hovewhite

Well leeks in Wales is about right and they will leak more goals than we will!
A whites victory!

bobbo

well done terry always appreciate the read
1975 just leaving home full of hope