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Time to change the Head Coach

Started by Slaphead in Qatar, October 20, 2018, 04:56:30 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

@jolslover

Quote from: Statto on October 20, 2018, 05:24:47 PM
Disagree. I'm not happy by a long way but

A) We're still nowhere near being adrift  of(ie 3+ points away from) 17th, which for me is the deadline by which you need a change. I reckon we could lose the next 3 games and still be within 1 win of 17th.

B) Jokanovic has always, at both Fulham and Watford, taken until about November to get his teams sorted. Thereafter they've been very good, more than compensating for the earlier poor performances.

C) We've made a ridiculously high number of new signings, and as I said in the summer, we were particularly LATE movers in the market. An extra allowance has to be made for that IMO.

D) I don't buy this "his style doesn't work in the PL" argument. It does. It's the same style all the successful teams play. Generally speaking in this league, the more possession, passes, and pass completion you have, the more points you get. 

E) We have an international break in 3 games' time. That's a good opportunity to change, if we're going to. A new manager isn't going to come in this week and sort us out by next Saturday.

For me gets the next 2 games. If we don't win either of those THEN he has to go.

Fair enough. Good post. I like his style so I guess if he improves his team selection for next week I will be happier. But todays performance can't be ignored. Cardiff are a poor side and we didn't play like we usually do under him. His selection and 2nd sub were bizzare.
STH H3

Woolly Mammoth

#21
We have conceded 12 in our last 3 games.
Not a clean sheet in sight, Cardiff's first win, and Fulham oblige as usual.
We look fragile all over the pitch, but more so when we are back peddling and running away from Cardiff's attacking players, not enough closing down often enough.
A real soft underbelly like we had under Tigana in the season he was sacked.
Fulham only have themselves to blame. Some players looked as though they were playing with strangers.
The defence and players in defensive areas look as though they have never been coached, and these are International players.
Cardiff outfought us where it counted.
We have to show more character, which is sadly missing.
We appeared Leaderless on and off the pitch.
Where do we go from here, what is the answer, there appears no light at the end of the tunnel.
Three straight defeats, and very comprehensive defeats.
But the last thing we must do is panic, and start looking for change just yet. Frying pan and fire.
We are 18th not rock bottom and 3 points behind Burnley.
But we also can't go on making the same mistakes week after week either.
I think I need a stiff drink.
Its not the man in the fight, it's the fight in the man.  🐘

Never forget your Roots.

hovewhite

Quote from: Slaphead in Qatar on October 20, 2018, 05:26:23 PM
Quote from: snarks on October 20, 2018, 05:15:48 PM
Gutted. But we were poor last year until November, and the year before come to think of it

Yes snarks but this season we will not play Burton or Barnsley.

And we dont look like we are learning from our mistakes
not learning from mistakes is the cardinal sin for me and that has to be the coaches .


Slaphead in Qatar

Quote from: Statto on October 20, 2018, 05:24:47 PM
Disagree. I'm not happy by a long way but

A) We're still nowhere near being adrift  of(ie 3+ points away from) 17th, which for me is the deadline by which you need a change. I reckon we could lose the next 3 games and still be within 1 win of 17th.

B) Jokanovic has always, at both Fulham and even at Watford, taken until about November to get his teams sorted. Thereafter they've been very good, more than compensating for the earlier poor performances.

C) We've made a higher number of new signings than most clubs, and as I said in the summer, overall we signed them later than most clubs. 5 on deadline day FFS! Madness from Tony Khan. An extra allowance has to be made for that IMO.

D) I don't buy this "his style doesn't work in the PL" argument. It does. It's the same style all the successful teams play. Generally speaking in this league, the more possession, passes, and pass completion you have, the more points you get. 

E) We have an international break in 3 games' time. That's a good opportunity to change, if we're going to. A new manager isn't going to come in this week and sort us out by next Saturday.

For me he gets the next 2 games. If we don't win either of those THEN he has to go.

We're getting hammered every week now statto, so I wouldn't waste any more games now.

And another thing , a pattern is emerging - we keep getting thrashed in the second half. Shows Slav is getting outthought by his opposite number

Twig

Quote from: Asotosyios on October 20, 2018, 05:01:43 PM
Let's bring Allardyce or Moyes or Pardew....or all 3 of them!

Well that's three I wouldn't let near my list of possibles!

Twig

Quote from: Slaphead in Qatar on October 20, 2018, 05:34:06 PM
Quote from: Statto on October 20, 2018, 05:24:47 PM
Disagree. I'm not happy by a long way but

A) We're still nowhere near being adrift  of(ie 3+ points away from) 17th, which for me is the deadline by which you need a change. I reckon we could lose the next 3 games and still be within 1 win of 17th.

B) Jokanovic has always, at both Fulham and even at Watford, taken until about November to get his teams sorted. Thereafter they've been very good, more than compensating for the earlier poor performances.

C) We've made a higher number of new signings than most clubs, and as I said in the summer, overall we signed them later than most clubs. 5 on deadline day FFS! Madness from Tony Khan. An extra allowance has to be made for that IMO.

D) I don't buy this "his style doesn't work in the PL" argument. It does. It's the same style all the successful teams play. Generally speaking in this league, the more possession, passes, and pass completion you have, the more points you get. 

E) We have an international break in 3 games' time. That's a good opportunity to change, if we're going to. A new manager isn't going to come in this week and sort us out by next Saturday.

For me he gets the next 2 games. If we don't win either of those THEN he has to go.

We're getting hammered every week now statto, so I wouldn't waste any more games now.

And another thing , a pattern is emerging - we keep getting thrashed in the second half. Shows Slav is getting outthought by his opposite number

I can sympathise with Statto's view and it has some merit. But Slaphead makes a fair point about woeful second halves.  For me a failure should be excusable but the person who failed should demonstrate that they learned from their mistake(s); sadly SJ shows absolutely no signs of learning.


FFCSteve

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on October 20, 2018, 05:28:18 PM
We have conceded 12 in our last 3 games.
Not a clean sheet in sight, Cardiff's first win, and Fulham oblige as usual.
We look fragile all over the pitch, but more so when we are back peddling and running away from Cardiff's attacking players, not enough closing down often enough.
A real soft underbelly like we had under Tigana in the season he was sacked.
Fulham only have themselves to blame. Some players looked as though they were playing with strangers.
The defence and players in defensive areas look as though they have never been coached, and these are International players.
Cardiff outfought us where it counted.
We have to show more character, which is sadly missing.
We appeared Leaderless on and off the pitch.
Where do we go from here, what is the answer, there appears no light at the end of the tunnel.
Three straight defeats, and very comprehensive defeats.
But the last thing we must do is panic, and start looking for change just yet. Frying pan and fire.
We are 18th not rock bottom and 3 points behind Burnley.
But we also can't go on making the same mistakes week after week either.
I think I need a stiff drink.

Good post!


Slav does seem to have made tactical errors this season.
We haven't fielded the same team twice.
We always seem to have injury problems!
But we mustn't loose sight of what he did last season. We had an epic second half season!
Would a fully fit squad to choose from have made a difference? Im not so sure any more. Would being able to field your perceived best squad week in week out, with fully fit players make a difference? Well in my view a combination of the two, would!

He must be given a chance with a fully fit squad for a few games!

Changing managers now would only exasperate our problems.
COYW!!! Bring back Rene! But I do like Slav!

Moltobueno

Reading jolslovers posts feels like reading my own mind lol.  :plus one:

Thames badger

Quote from: Mince n Tatties on October 20, 2018, 05:15:34 PM
Garth and Dion saying on Final score what we all know,our defence are a joke.

Yes. Final score are always dishing out that sort of obvious platitude


filham

Next week has to be our coaches last chance, lose that one by another big score and one win in ten games surely will trigger action from the chairman.

Penfold

In my humble opinion, we do not have a single defender up to premier league standard. Doesn't really matter who the coach is. You can't polish a turd.

bigalffc

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on October 20, 2018, 05:28:18 PM
We have conceded 12 in our last 3 games.
Not a clean sheet in sight, Cardiff's first win, and Fulham oblige as usual.
We look fragile all over the pitch, but more so when we are back peddling and running away from Cardiff's attacking players, not enough closing down often enough.
A real soft underbelly like we had under Tigana in the season he was sacked.
Fulham only have themselves to blame. Some players looked as though they were playing with strangers.
The defence and players in defensive areas look as though they have never been coached, and these are International players.
Cardiff outfought us where it counted.
We have to show more character, which is sadly missing.
We appeared Leaderless on and off the pitch.
Where do we go from here, what is the answer, there appears no light at the end of the tunnel.
Three straight defeats, and very comprehensive defeats.
But the last thing we must do is panic, and start looking for change just yet. Frying pan and fire.
We are 18th not rock bottom and 3 points behind Burnley.
But we also can't go on making the same mistakes week after week either.
I think I need a stiff drink.
agree with you woolly, I'm now having that stiff drink and hoping the club can bring in a defensive coach that can sort out our back line and , in January, get a woolly monster of a giant defender, never mind if he can play out from the back, just win everything in the air and make opponents strikers know he's there!
Instead of seeing the rug being pulled from under us we can learn to dance on a shifting carpet - Thomas Crum


Woolly Mammoth

Quote from: bigalffc on October 20, 2018, 09:28:07 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on October 20, 2018, 05:28:18 PM
We have conceded 12 in our last 3 games.
Not a clean sheet in sight, Cardiff's first win, and Fulham oblige as usual.
We look fragile all over the pitch, but more so when we are back peddling and running away from Cardiff's attacking players, not enough closing down often enough.
A real soft underbelly like we had under Tigana in the season he was sacked.
Fulham only have themselves to blame. Some players looked as though they were playing with strangers.
The defence and players in defensive areas look as though they have never been coached, and these are International players.
Cardiff outfought us where it counted.
We have to show more character, which is sadly missing.
We appeared Leaderless on and off the pitch.
Where do we go from here, what is the answer, there appears no light at the end of the tunnel.
Three straight defeats, and very comprehensive defeats.
But the last thing we must do is panic, and start looking for change just yet. Frying pan and fire.
We are 18th not rock bottom and 3 points behind Burnley.
But we also can't go on making the same mistakes week after week either.
I think I need a stiff drink.
agree with you woolly, I'm now having that stiff drink and hoping the club can bring in a defensive coach that can sort out our back line and , in January, get a woolly monster of a giant defender, never mind if he can play out from the back, just win everything in the air and make opponents strikers know he's there!

Exactly, we have nobody currently in defence who has any kind of presence, nobody who can marshal the back line, hence why we have a very bad Goals against record.
Its not the man in the fight, it's the fight in the man.  🐘

Never forget your Roots.

Classic94

Today wasn't just bad, it was cowardly. Yes, the team selection was shambolic and tactics even more so, but my word some of these players need to man up. Shirking tackles, lazy marking and complete positional ineptitude. Today had it all.

Nero

thing is we aren't just losing narrowly and being neaten by the odd goal we are being thrashed, when Odoi looks like your best defender you have a problem


bobbo

Quote from: Asotosyios on October 20, 2018, 05:01:43 PM
Let's bring Allardyce or Moyes or Pardew....or all 3 of them!
this is not a joke column
1975 just leaving home full of hope

gang

Someone should tell Joca that the first sign of madness is to try something and when it doesn't work keep trying the same way.

snarks

Quote from: gang on October 21, 2018, 10:58:27 AM
Someone should tell Joca that the first sign of madness is to try something and when it doesn't work keep trying the same way.

Yep because that didn't get us promoted..... Actually the team needs to learn about defending - all 11.


Wingnut

#38
Quote from: Camel Club on October 20, 2018, 05:21:45 PM
I think most will agree with you Slaphead  I still believe this squad of players are capable of finishing on the top half of the PL but unfortunately not with SJ.

People need to decide what they want football wise then. Not sure about finishing top half but this squad can finish between 10-15th with a different style of play. If we had someone like Big Sam in charge, he would set the team up to achieve that goal but we'd have to be willing to accept the style of football that comes with that. Are people going to accept that for the next season or two whilst we get settled back into this league?
Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

toshes mate

You will get your new coach if the Khans agree Jokanovic is the flaw, but the problem we are encoutering may be much more serious than one single personnel change can improve upon as we have seen in the past.  Indeed even the Club Captain disagrees with that analysis.

To get a feel for what McDonald and Jokanovic are talking about, if not in as many words, it's instructive to watch the first goal scored against us yesterday, where Chambers is not concentrating on the man he is marking at all.  He is caught watching the ball and not his target and by the time he reacts Murphy is clear and in an incredibly dangerous position.  Chambers is rendered superfluous by his complete inability to concentrate the very thing he is being paid to do.   That isn't about coaching, tactics or anything else, it is sheer disregard for his professional job.  If he was a doctor then God help his patients.   And the problem is that Chambers is not alone in this disregard.   Why is a very good question and I do not see any answers in this thread.