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Did Seri give the ball away in the first four minutes

Started by The Swan, December 05, 2018, 10:12:47 PM

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Matt10

Quote from: Southcoastffc on December 07, 2018, 11:27:59 AM
Quote from: Deeping_white on December 07, 2018, 11:12:26 AM
Quote from: Southcoastffc on December 07, 2018, 10:55:01 AM
These stills, while interesting are misleading. 

They don't show Chambers, behind Okazaki (i.e. nearer to the half-way line than Okazaki).  Nor do they show the one Leicester player in the box, well marked by Christie, and Odoi near the penalty spot, frantically calling for reinforcements to cover the huge space Iborra and Maddison had to exploit.

I am not 'digging out' Seri, but he was wrong to rush in to try and close down Gray (No 7).  He left his man (Okazaki) and Gray simply  dinked the ball past him to Okazaki, and Seri's momentum took him beyond Gray and out of the game. 

Seri was culpable for the goal, we had 3 (arguably 4 with Chambers a little behind the play) players covering 2.  Once he rushed past Gray it was 2 on 2 with one of those 2 Leicester players in the clear. 

It was a collective responsibility but had Seri been more composed we might have contained the situation.


(If anyone wants to view, the abbreviated highlights on the club site show the situation at around 4 mins 20)

Except you are digging him out, and really rather pointlessly too. Some people want to blame every single goal on him, however tenuous the link and it's getting really boring. If he doesn't close down Gray then it gives him even more time to play in Okazaki, and you'd probably be moaning at him for not doing that if it'd been the other way round. Point is that Mawson should really have recognised the danger of the strikers movement and tracked him whilst Seri continued to close down Gray, but really it's splitting hairs because overall the play is moving at such a pace that you get a split second to make a decision, and somehow with a collective group of players who are potentially culpable, you lay the blame with one guy, probably because it's easy to scapegoat someone rather than think about it properly
Read my post again and try to understand please.  I am not unfairly criticising him, I am saying that he made a mistake which led to a goal, and pointing out that the restricted images above are just that, restricted.  That's all.  All players make mistakes. eg Tom Cairney's slip and miss, AK blasting over.   (And then you 'dig out' Mawson!)

I would advise to rewatch the match and see the behavior of our CMs when the ball is on the sidelines. They are instructed to pressure the wing...because our wings are not instructed to track back. We do this so we can counter. This is why you see Sess just stand there, and AK on the other side as well not tuck in.

MJG

Watch the video again, he's in motion running to Okazaki who passes to Gray, Seri doesn't have to stop, turn or anything socontinues to follow the path of ball towards Gray to close down (Mawson wasnt on his toes to close down and had to guard teh space around him and MLM was pretty static).
IF he had suddenly stopped then I can 100% guarantee people would be moaning he didn't run to close Gray down. Its fair play to Gray with his quick pass back to a player who still had to get past Chambers and Mawson to get cross in and he did.


Just the views of a long term fan

MJG

Quote from: Moltobueno on December 07, 2018, 11:35:24 AM
Quote from: Southcoastffc on December 07, 2018, 10:55:01 AM

I am not 'digging out' Seri, but he was wrong to rush in to try and close down Gray (No 7).  He left his man (Okazaki) and Gray simply  dinked the ball past him to Okazaki, and Seri's momentum took him beyond Gray and out of the game. 

Seri was culpable for the goal, we had 3 (arguably 4 with Chambers a little behind the play) players covering 2.  Once he rushed past Gray it was 2 on 2 with one of those 2 Leicester players in the clear. 

It was a collective responsibility but had Seri been more composed we might have contained the situation.


I agree Seri's decision to rush towards Gray was wrong - he should have stayed with Okazaki (it's elementary that you are supposed to keep close to the player instead of running after the ball).
But seeing it from video, Seri was running back to defend with really fast pace and would have never managed to stop right next to Okazaki, therefore made the only correct choice to pressure Gray. Chambers (who was behind Okazaki) should have tracked Okazaki but missed the moment where Gray released his pass.

Overall, as you said, it was a collective responsibility.
This
Just the views of a long term fan


Southcoastffc

Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on December 07, 2018, 11:32:22 AM
Quote from: Southcoastffc on December 07, 2018, 10:55:01 AM
These stills, while interesting are misleading. 

They don't show Chambers, behind Okazaki (i.e. nearer to the half-way line than Okazaki).  Nor do they show the one Leicester player in the box, well marked by Christie, and Odoi near the penalty spot, frantically calling for reinforcements to cover the huge space Iborra and Maddison had to exploit.

I am not 'digging out' Seri, but he was wrong to rush in to try and close down Gray (No 7).  He left his man (Okazaki) and Gray simply  dinked the ball past him to Okazaki, and Seri's momentum took him beyond Gray and out of the game. 

Seri was culpable for the goal, we had 3 (arguably 4 with Chambers a little behind the play) players covering 2.  Once he rushed past Gray it was 2 on 2 with one of those 2 Leicester players in the clear. 

It was a collective responsibility but had Seri been more composed we might have contained the situation.


(If anyone wants to view, the abbreviated highlights on the club site show the situation at around 4 mins 20)

If Seri didn't close him down, who would? Mawson pretty far from stopping the Cross.
But my point is THE WAY he tried to close him down.  It was a bit like someone rashly diving into a tackle instead of standing off until the right moment.  He lost composure.  It happens.
The world is made up of electrons, protons, neurons, possibly muons and, definitely, morons.

alfie

Well we appear to have selected our scape goat for the season.
Story of my life
"I was looking back to see if she was looking back to see if i was looking back at her"
Sadly she wasn't

nose returns

Quote from: Sting of the North on December 06, 2018, 01:12:43 PM
Quote from: nose on December 06, 2018, 12:27:30 PM
Quote from: Sting of the North on December 05, 2018, 11:07:33 PM
Quote from: nose on December 05, 2018, 11:04:29 PM
seri came with a massive reputation...
in reality at best he is ordinary and under pressure has no fist touch. loses possesion with alarming regularity

when he has space and time and under no pressure can pick a pass and flatters to decieve
IMO he is a waste of money, i have seen much worse than seri but for the reported fee surely there is much better
the fact tonight was a better/improved performance speaks volumes for how poor he has been rather than a measure of how good he is.
that is my opinion based on seeing him in the flesh all season.

The fee we paid is irrelevant when discussing if he is good enough. We have already paid it so we will never get anything better for those millions. It doesn't matter if he plays like a big money signing. At this point it matters whether he plays good enough. I think he does most of the time, and I do get that you think he doesn't.

Actually the fee and reputation do matter. They matter because somebody thought it was a good idea to aquire him and  a bunch of other players that have spectacularly failed to impress. Seri was announced with a fanfare as a coup, beating others to the punch, and he was a few moments from joining Barca. Well unfortunately i think we can see why the others diodn't tru harder and Barca changed their mind.

Without his reputation I would suggest seri would be a fringe player at best. He has contributed little, loses possesion through poor first touch, being slow to react and poor passing far too often. It seems to me the pace of the prem just does not suit him, he is not used to it. Last night he was almost OK, but for a player with that price tag and fanfare I expect him to be able to stand out and make a difference.

The issue is the purchasing policy, it has been wrong since we were in our last season in the prem, it remains so. It is a pity that lessons have not been learned, I really love the owner and can see how determined he is and committed he is, but I cannot understand why he does not correct this obvious shortcoming at the club.

Do you mean that he gets in the 11 because he was expensive and not because the managers prefer him? That would really be to question the integrity of Joca and Ranieri.

Otherwise it is still irrelevant whether or not someone cost 50 million or arrived on a free when discussing the actual performances in the light of whether or not someone is is performing well enough to deserve a spot in the team. You are instead discussing the purchasing policies. Maybe you are also discussing whether or not Seri is meeting expectations. That could be an interesting discussion, but still a completely different discussion.

I honestly do see what you are saying and there is no easy and straightforward answer because in the end we are all supporters and emotion kicks in. For me it is two part. First is he worth the money? the answer is clearly so far absolutely not. Then your point kicks in in that are the managers picking him because of the fee and I do not think so. I suspect they are seeing things that do not make sense to me. I do also know in games that seri was subsituted, we got worse. But he surely is not making the impact his reputation and fee suggested he would.

I think in trying to sensibly answer your point, if I ignore the fee/reputation do I think he is worth his place in the first 11, the answer is no, not really. There are always players that are selected by various managers that leave supporters wondering how they get selected. I think seri may be one such. He is O, a squad player aat best based on whta he has done so far, and we are well into the season.

I didn't think much of chambers, but in moving to central midfield he made an immediate difference, we all saw that. seri has not made a difference, a couple of decent and clever passes does not a regular first teamer make. he is caught in possession far too often, gives the ball away far too often and rarely makes a proper challenge. He also tends to give up far too often when we lose the ball and that is unforgiveable.

Maybe if he has a better game or two he will get his mojo back, but he hasn't sparkled.