Author Topic: Did Seri give the ball away in the first four minutes  (Read 1467 times)

Offline Ols_S

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Re: Did Seri give the ball away in the first four minutes
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2018, 12:55:59 PM »
thought seri played well today

Agree. Finding his feet and playing with more confidence. The fact the Cairney can count on having an outlet next to him helped Tom yesterday as well as if the pass forward isn't on he now has another option.

Offline Woolly Mammoth

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Re: Did Seri give the ball away in the first four minutes
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2018, 01:07:59 PM »
Whether we like it or not, we need to persevere with Cairney and Seri in the same team. At least at the commencement of the match, and see how they pan out, then if changes are necessary, then so be it.
Injuries permitting, we have to have some kind of consistent structure throughout the team, but also being mindful of not carrying passengers, we are bottom for a reason, and there is no room for feint hearts.

Offline Sting of the North

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Re: Did Seri give the ball away in the first four minutes
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2018, 01:12:43 PM »
seri came with a massive reputation...
in reality at best he is ordinary and under pressure has no fist touch. loses possesion with alarming regularity

when he has space and time and under no pressure can pick a pass and flatters to decieve
IMO he is a waste of money, i have seen much worse than seri but for the reported fee surely there is much better
the fact tonight was a better/improved performance speaks volumes for how poor he has been rather than a measure of how good he is.
that is my opinion based on seeing him in the flesh all season.

The fee we paid is irrelevant when discussing if he is good enough. We have already paid it so we will never get anything better for those millions. It doesn't matter if he plays like a big money signing. At this point it matters whether he plays good enough. I think he does most of the time, and I do get that you think he doesn't.

Actually the fee and reputation do matter. They matter because somebody thought it was a good idea to aquire him and  a bunch of other players that have spectacularly failed to impress. Seri was announced with a fanfare as a coup, beating others to the punch, and he was a few moments from joining Barca. Well unfortunately i think we can see why the others diodn't tru harder and Barca changed their mind.

Without his reputation I would suggest seri would be a fringe player at best. He has contributed little, loses possesion through poor first touch, being slow to react and poor passing far too often. It seems to me the pace of the prem just does not suit him, he is not used to it. Last night he was almost OK, but for a player with that price tag and fanfare I expect him to be able to stand out and make a difference.

The issue is the purchasing policy, it has been wrong since we were in our last season in the prem, it remains so. It is a pity that lessons have not been learned, I really love the owner and can see how determined he is and committed he is, but I cannot understand why he does not correct this obvious shortcoming at the club.

Do you mean that he gets in the 11 because he was expensive and not because the managers prefer him? That would really be to question the integrity of Joca and Ranieri.

Otherwise it is still irrelevant whether or not someone cost 50 million or arrived on a free when discussing the actual performances in the light of whether or not someone is is performing well enough to deserve a spot in the team. You are instead discussing the purchasing policies. Maybe you are also discussing whether or not Seri is meeting expectations. That could be an interesting discussion, but still a completely different discussion.


Offline Matt10

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Re: Did Seri give the ball away in the first four minutes
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2018, 01:26:12 PM »
I've watched the replay a couple times, and I can't help but see he actually tried to trap the ball or block off Madison. I think he needs to learn to sweep that away or slide right into the ball as he is not going to win any foot races. The pass was terrible, but in those situations it needs to be less about composure from Seri, and more about hoofing it out of danger.

Offline bahay18

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Re: Did Seri give the ball away in the first four minutes
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2018, 07:54:18 PM »
he was played into trouble again . but once again he didn't hide he kept showing and kept going . still not the player that started the season though .

Offline AnOldBrownie

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Re: Did Seri give the ball away in the first four minutes
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2018, 08:14:39 PM »
I decided last night to wipe the slate clean with Seri and forget his recent performances, his transfer fee and his reputation.

He worked hard had a reasonable game but gave the ball away at times but then that seems to be a trait with most of our players. Seri has yet to fully adjust to the premier league but I still wonder if we wouldn't be better of with a tough ball wining player in that deep position.

This.


Except for the early mistake I thought Seri had one of his better overall games.

Like you said though, a tough ball winning player in front of the defensive back four would help the teams defense overall.   And with both Cairney and Chambers  taking part in our attacks I don't see how a stronger defender wouldn't be preferred to Seri.

That said...Seri wasn't defensively poor yesterday.   He was ok...and he had good effort.

I'm starting to think that if he starts instead of Cairney yet the team has a dedicated CDM (Chambers is playing box to box a lot) the team will be fine.   

My position on Seri has changed to one of ...if he's going to play you need a player to cover more defensively.   I'm going to stand by that because he's played almost every game and we still have yet to hold a clean sheet, and teams love attacking our defense right up the middle.


The goal wasn't Seri's mistake, but the ball was crossed to a position where I'd think Seri was suppose to be.   Odoi and Christie were more at fault though.


Offline RoyTund

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Re: Did Seri give the ball away in the first four minutes
« Reply #46 on: December 07, 2018, 04:11:59 AM »
Dreadful pass from vietto. So technically yes, but this time not to blame imo

Offline Spirit of 2000

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Re: Did Seri give the ball away in the first four minutes
« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2018, 08:48:32 AM »
I decided last night to wipe the slate clean with Seri and forget his recent performances, his transfer fee and his reputation.

He worked hard had a reasonable game but gave the ball away at times but then that seems to be a trait with most of our players. Seri has yet to fully adjust to the premier league but I still wonder if we wouldn't be better of with a tough ball wining player in that deep position.

This.


Except for the early mistake I thought Seri had one of his better overall games.

Like you said though, a tough ball winning player in front of the defensive back four would help the teams defense overall.   And with both Cairney and Chambers  taking part in our attacks I don't see how a stronger defender wouldn't be preferred to Seri.

That said...Seri wasn't defensively poor yesterday.   He was ok...and he had good effort.

I'm starting to think that if he starts instead of Cairney yet the team has a dedicated CDM (Chambers is playing box to box a lot) the team will be fine.   

My position on Seri has changed to one of ...if he's going to play you need a player to cover more defensively.   I'm going to stand by that because he's played almost every game and we still have yet to hold a clean sheet, and teams love attacking our defense right up the middle.


The goal wasn't Seri's mistake, but the ball was crossed to a position where I'd think Seri was suppose to be.   Odoi and Christie were more at fault though.

The last line - Seri was drawn utterly out of position and was stuck miles out on the left when Maddison scored, so yes he was partially to fault with yet another goal and in my opinion is a defensive liability.

Offline MJG

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Re: Did Seri give the ball away in the first four minutes
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2018, 09:39:00 AM »
I decided last night to wipe the slate clean with Seri and forget his recent performances, his transfer fee and his reputation.

He worked hard had a reasonable game but gave the ball away at times but then that seems to be a trait with most of our players. Seri has yet to fully adjust to the premier league but I still wonder if we wouldn't be better of with a tough ball wining player in that deep position.

This.


Except for the early mistake I thought Seri had one of his better overall games.

Like you said though, a tough ball winning player in front of the defensive back four would help the teams defense overall.   And with both Cairney and Chambers  taking part in our attacks I don't see how a stronger defender wouldn't be preferred to Seri.

That said...Seri wasn't defensively poor yesterday.   He was ok...and he had good effort.

I'm starting to think that if he starts instead of Cairney yet the team has a dedicated CDM (Chambers is playing box to box a lot) the team will be fine.   

My position on Seri has changed to one of ...if he's going to play you need a player to cover more defensively.   I'm going to stand by that because he's played almost every game and we still have yet to hold a clean sheet, and teams love attacking our defense right up the middle.


The goal wasn't Seri's mistake, but the ball was crossed to a position where I'd think Seri was suppose to be.   Odoi and Christie were more at fault though.

The last line - Seri was drawn utterly out of position and was stuck miles out on the left when Maddison scored, so yes he was partially to fault with yet another goal and in my opinion is a defensive liability.
If you watcgh the replay he has to close the guy down on the wing as the ball had got behind marchend and Okazaki who he was close to passed the ball to Gray, his momentum to close down Gray was the right thing to do as Mawson was deeper and would not have bbeen able to close him down and as I say MLM was further away.






Offline Mitrovic the warrior

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Re: Did Seri give the ball away in the first four minutes
« Reply #49 on: December 07, 2018, 10:02:40 AM »
I decided last night to wipe the slate clean with Seri and forget his recent performances, his transfer fee and his reputation.

He worked hard had a reasonable game but gave the ball away at times but then that seems to be a trait with most of our players. Seri has yet to fully adjust to the premier league but I still wonder if we wouldn't be better of with a tough ball wining player in that deep position.

This.


Except for the early mistake I thought Seri had one of his better overall games.

Like you said though, a tough ball winning player in front of the defensive back four would help the teams defense overall.   And with both Cairney and Chambers  taking part in our attacks I don't see how a stronger defender wouldn't be preferred to Seri.

That said...Seri wasn't defensively poor yesterday.   He was ok...and he had good effort.

I'm starting to think that if he starts instead of Cairney yet the team has a dedicated CDM (Chambers is playing box to box a lot) the team will be fine.   

My position on Seri has changed to one of ...if he's going to play you need a player to cover more defensively.   I'm going to stand by that because he's played almost every game and we still have yet to hold a clean sheet, and teams love attacking our defense right up the middle.


The goal wasn't Seri's mistake, but the ball was crossed to a position where I'd think Seri was suppose to be.   Odoi and Christie were more at fault though.

The last line - Seri was drawn utterly out of position and was stuck miles out on the left when Maddison scored, so yes he was partially to fault with yet another goal and in my opinion is a defensive liability.
If you watcgh the replay he has to close the guy down on the wing as the ball had got behind marchend and Okazaki who he was close to passed the ball to Gray, his momentum to close down Gray was the right thing to do as Mawson was deeper and would not have bbeen able to close him down and as I say MLM was further away.






Agreed. Mawson should've closed down a bit quicker. Where was Chambers at this point, Maddison was in his zone when he scored? I'm sure Chambers was probably defending too but I'd be interested to know this.

Offline Twig

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Re: Did Seri give the ball away in the first four minutes
« Reply #50 on: December 07, 2018, 10:41:40 AM »
Did any player not give the ball away at some point in the 94 minutes?

How many more times will i see crap seri posts?

Agree Statto so many on this forum seem to have it in for Seri, he is not perfect but he tries his heart out in every game, Sess is not perfect but everyone thinks he is the 2nd Coming at times!!!

Give it a rest on the Seri front and get behind the guy  049:gif

Whatever Seri’s strengths and weaknesses he emphatically was not trying his heart out every game. Be honest he was one of those who switched off in SJ’s later weeks.

Offline Southcoastffc

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Re: Did Seri give the ball away in the first four minutes
« Reply #51 on: December 07, 2018, 10:55:01 AM »
These stills, while interesting are misleading. 

They don't show Chambers, behind Okazaki (i.e. nearer to the half-way line than Okazaki).  Nor do they show the one Leicester player in the box, well marked by Christie, and Odoi near the penalty spot, frantically calling for reinforcements to cover the huge space Iborra and Maddison had to exploit.

I am not 'digging out' Seri, but he was wrong to rush in to try and close down Gray (No 7).  He left his man (Okazaki) and Gray simply  dinked the ball past him to Okazaki, and Seri's momentum took him beyond Gray and out of the game. 

Seri was culpable for the goal, we had 3 (arguably 4 with Chambers a little behind the play) players covering 2.  Once he rushed past Gray it was 2 on 2 with one of those 2 Leicester players in the clear. 

It was a collective responsibility but had Seri been more composed we might have contained the situation.


(If anyone wants to view, the abbreviated highlights on the club site show the situation at around 4 mins 20)
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 10:57:16 AM by Southcoastffc »


Offline bobbo

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Re: Did Seri give the ball away in the first four minutes
« Reply #52 on: December 07, 2018, 11:08:31 AM »
I said on another post. He gave away or lost the ball 3 times in the first 5 minutes, I was watching him specifically how he was playing. I'm not wanting to crucify the lad , I want nothing more than him to be better than he is right now. Because I'm struggling to see any justification for what we supposed to have paid for him or how he was attracting the attention of bigger clubs than us.

Online Deeping_white

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Re: Did Seri give the ball away in the first four minutes
« Reply #53 on: December 07, 2018, 11:12:26 AM »
These stills, while interesting are misleading. 

They don't show Chambers, behind Okazaki (i.e. nearer to the half-way line than Okazaki).  Nor do they show the one Leicester player in the box, well marked by Christie, and Odoi near the penalty spot, frantically calling for reinforcements to cover the huge space Iborra and Maddison had to exploit.

I am not 'digging out' Seri, but he was wrong to rush in to try and close down Gray (No 7).  He left his man (Okazaki) and Gray simply  dinked the ball past him to Okazaki, and Seri's momentum took him beyond Gray and out of the game. 

Seri was culpable for the goal, we had 3 (arguably 4 with Chambers a little behind the play) players covering 2.  Once he rushed past Gray it was 2 on 2 with one of those 2 Leicester players in the clear. 

It was a collective responsibility but had Seri been more composed we might have contained the situation.


(If anyone wants to view, the abbreviated highlights on the club site show the situation at around 4 mins 20)

Except you are digging him out, and really rather pointlessly too. Some people want to blame every single goal on him, however tenuous the link and it’s getting really boring. If he doesn’t close down Gray then it gives him even more time to play in Okazaki, and you’d probably be moaning at him for not doing that if it’d been the other way round. Point is that Mawson should really have recognised the danger of the strikers movement and tracked him whilst Seri continued to close down Gray, but really it’s splitting hairs because overall the play is moving at such a pace that you get a split second to make a decision, and somehow with a collective group of players who are potentially culpable, you lay the blame with one guy, probably because it’s easy to scapegoat someone rather than think about it properly

Offline Sting of the North

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Re: Did Seri give the ball away in the first four minutes
« Reply #54 on: December 07, 2018, 11:17:28 AM »
These stills, while interesting are misleading. 

They don't show Chambers, behind Okazaki (i.e. nearer to the half-way line than Okazaki).  Nor do they show the one Leicester player in the box, well marked by Christie, and Odoi near the penalty spot, frantically calling for reinforcements to cover the huge space Iborra and Maddison had to exploit.

I am not 'digging out' Seri, but he was wrong to rush in to try and close down Gray (No 7).  He left his man (Okazaki) and Gray simply  dinked the ball past him to Okazaki, and Seri's momentum took him beyond Gray and out of the game. 

Seri was culpable for the goal, we had 3 (arguably 4 with Chambers a little behind the play) players covering 2.  Once he rushed past Gray it was 2 on 2 with one of those 2 Leicester players in the clear. 

It was a collective responsibility but had Seri been more composed we might have contained the situation.


(If anyone wants to view, the abbreviated highlights on the club site show the situation at around 4 mins 20)

Except you are digging him out, and really rather pointlessly too. Some people want to blame every single goal on him, however tenuous the link and it’s getting really boring. If he doesn’t close down Gray then it gives him even more time to play in Okazaki, and you’d probably be moaning at him for not doing that if it’d been the other way round. Point is that Mawson should really have recognised the danger of the strikers movement and tracked him whilst Seri continued to close down Gray, but really it’s splitting hairs because overall the play is moving at such a pace that you get a split second to make a decision, and somehow with a collective group of players who are potentially culpable, you lay the blame with one guy, probably because it’s easy to scapegoat someone rather than think about it properly

 :plus one:


Offline Southcoastffc

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Re: Did Seri give the ball away in the first four minutes
« Reply #55 on: December 07, 2018, 11:27:59 AM »
These stills, while interesting are misleading. 

They don't show Chambers, behind Okazaki (i.e. nearer to the half-way line than Okazaki).  Nor do they show the one Leicester player in the box, well marked by Christie, and Odoi near the penalty spot, frantically calling for reinforcements to cover the huge space Iborra and Maddison had to exploit.

I am not 'digging out' Seri, but he was wrong to rush in to try and close down Gray (No 7).  He left his man (Okazaki) and Gray simply  dinked the ball past him to Okazaki, and Seri's momentum took him beyond Gray and out of the game. 

Seri was culpable for the goal, we had 3 (arguably 4 with Chambers a little behind the play) players covering 2.  Once he rushed past Gray it was 2 on 2 with one of those 2 Leicester players in the clear. 

It was a collective responsibility but had Seri been more composed we might have contained the situation.


(If anyone wants to view, the abbreviated highlights on the club site show the situation at around 4 mins 20)

Except you are digging him out, and really rather pointlessly too. Some people want to blame every single goal on him, however tenuous the link and it’s getting really boring. If he doesn’t close down Gray then it gives him even more time to play in Okazaki, and you’d probably be moaning at him for not doing that if it’d been the other way round. Point is that Mawson should really have recognised the danger of the strikers movement and tracked him whilst Seri continued to close down Gray, but really it’s splitting hairs because overall the play is moving at such a pace that you get a split second to make a decision, and somehow with a collective group of players who are potentially culpable, you lay the blame with one guy, probably because it’s easy to scapegoat someone rather than think about it properly
Read my post again and try to understand please.  I am not unfairly criticising him, I am saying that he made a mistake which led to a goal, and pointing out that the restricted images above are just that, restricted.  That's all.  All players make mistakes. eg Tom Cairney's slip and miss, AK blasting over.   (And then you 'dig out' Mawson!)

Offline Spirit of 2000

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Re: Did Seri give the ball away in the first four minutes
« Reply #56 on: December 07, 2018, 11:30:06 AM »
These stills, while interesting are misleading. 

They don't show Chambers, behind Okazaki (i.e. nearer to the half-way line than Okazaki).  Nor do they show the one Leicester player in the box, well marked by Christie, and Odoi near the penalty spot, frantically calling for reinforcements to cover the huge space Iborra and Maddison had to exploit.

I am not 'digging out' Seri, but he was wrong to rush in to try and close down Gray (No 7).  He left his man (Okazaki) and Gray simply  dinked the ball past him to Okazaki, and Seri's momentum took him beyond Gray and out of the game. 

Seri was culpable for the goal, we had 3 (arguably 4 with Chambers a little behind the play) players covering 2.  Once he rushed past Gray it was 2 on 2 with one of those 2 Leicester players in the clear. 

It was a collective responsibility but had Seri been more composed we might have contained the situation.


(If anyone wants to view, the abbreviated highlights on the club site show the situation at around 4 mins 20)

My thoughts exactly. He was only vidicated if by going wide if he stopped the attack & in his mind had a better then even chance of doing so. Otherwise his responsibility lays with staying in position and trying to get back to mark potential targets for the cross. He lacks the awareness and tactical nous for a midfielder being asked to play in a deepish role. I've said many times he's not a bad player per se - he has technical ability and would profer playing further forward in a good team that are enjoying the lions share of possession and who are usually in the ascendency during matches rather than one fighting for their lives at the wrong end of the table, in short he's the wrong player for us. If we can shift out TFM, maybe Vietto even from their loans and look to get a Drinkwater or Wanyama in - neither of which are featuring for their clubs, then that's more like what we need. I've even got hopes Anguissa may develop under Ranieri as a box to box player, but currently Chambers is undroppable at DM.

Offline Mitrovic the warrior

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Re: Did Seri give the ball away in the first four minutes
« Reply #57 on: December 07, 2018, 11:30:58 AM »
I said on another post. He gave away or lost the ball 3 times in the first 5 minutes, I was watching him specifically how he was playing. I'm not wanting to crucify the lad , I want nothing more than him to be better than he is right now. Because I'm struggling to see any justification for what we supposed to have paid for him or how he was attracting the attention of bigger clubs than us.

Some players need other good players in their team in order to play their best. Case in point Shaqiri. Also Pogba, much better when playing for France.

He's getting better and better because his team mates are too.

Offline Mitrovic the warrior

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Re: Did Seri give the ball away in the first four minutes
« Reply #58 on: December 07, 2018, 11:32:22 AM »
These stills, while interesting are misleading. 

They don't show Chambers, behind Okazaki (i.e. nearer to the half-way line than Okazaki).  Nor do they show the one Leicester player in the box, well marked by Christie, and Odoi near the penalty spot, frantically calling for reinforcements to cover the huge space Iborra and Maddison had to exploit.

I am not 'digging out' Seri, but he was wrong to rush in to try and close down Gray (No 7).  He left his man (Okazaki) and Gray simply  dinked the ball past him to Okazaki, and Seri's momentum took him beyond Gray and out of the game. 

Seri was culpable for the goal, we had 3 (arguably 4 with Chambers a little behind the play) players covering 2.  Once he rushed past Gray it was 2 on 2 with one of those 2 Leicester players in the clear. 

It was a collective responsibility but had Seri been more composed we might have contained the situation.


(If anyone wants to view, the abbreviated highlights on the club site show the situation at around 4 mins 20)

If Seri didn't close him down, who would? Mawson pretty far from stopping the cross.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 01:03:42 PM by Mitrovic the warrior »

Offline Moltobueno

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Re: Did Seri give the ball away in the first four minutes
« Reply #59 on: December 07, 2018, 11:35:24 AM »

I am not 'digging out' Seri, but he was wrong to rush in to try and close down Gray (No 7).  He left his man (Okazaki) and Gray simply  dinked the ball past him to Okazaki, and Seri's momentum took him beyond Gray and out of the game. 

Seri was culpable for the goal, we had 3 (arguably 4 with Chambers a little behind the play) players covering 2.  Once he rushed past Gray it was 2 on 2 with one of those 2 Leicester players in the clear. 

It was a collective responsibility but had Seri been more composed we might have contained the situation.


I agree Seri's decision to rush towards Gray was wrong - he should have stayed with Okazaki (it's elementary that you are supposed to keep close to the player instead of running after the ball).
But seeing it from video, Seri was running back to defend with really fast pace and would have never managed to stop right next to Okazaki, therefore made the only correct choice to pressure Gray. Chambers (who was behind Okazaki) should have tracked Okazaki but missed the moment where Gray released his pass.

Overall, as you said, it was a collective responsibility.