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Will Seri cost another Fulham manager his job?

Started by Nick Bateman, December 13, 2018, 01:48:42 PM

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Nick Bateman

When will the "Tinkerman" wake up and smell the coffee that playing Seri in the centre of Fulham's midfield is harmful to further progress in our campaign to stay up.

Seri does not tackle, loses the ball far too easily, has poor work-rate and offers the defense no covering support.  He is kept in by a 'wonder-goal', something he will probably never repeat.

Last week Ranieri dropped Fulham star player Tom Cairney to accomodate this failing midfielder. We have seen similar laconic performances from Aguissa, who although harshly red carded last weekend, it may well be a blessing in disguise.  As someone has stated on this forum; THEY ARE NOT FIT TO WEAR THE SHIRT, and we should be making plans to recoup our spending in the January by off-loading these misfits and bring in the players we need to save our season.

Fulham should begin to keep a core first team together rather than these continued experiments as Ranieri goes through the process of learning who are his best players in the entire squad.  We need width and balls into Mitrovic, good link play from Cairney whose perception and awareness of teammates is second to none.  A pity Ranieri does not seem to possess the same perspicuity.
Nick Bateman "knows his footie"


SG

An article in the Times showed that he is one of the leading midfield provider of assists for goals and chances in the division. He was also down the bottom of the same table for tackles and interceptions. That should tell you where he should play.
He is a good player and this continual moan - not fit to wear the shirt etc - does nobody any favours.


Denver Fulham

There's pretty ample evidence at this point that the starting XI can't (best) accomodate both Cairney and Seri. As Seri also appears to be a bad fit with Anguissa, this could get interesting. We'll see what the gaffer's preferences are, but early returns have shown he will sacrifice Cairney before he does Seri.

Jims Dentist

Would Seri be better suited to the role just behind Mitro.
Ranieri seems to favour Cairney there mostly.
If swapped Seri losing the ball so often might not be so damaging.
Cairney we hope would retain possession better.




Jonnoj

Quote from: SG on December 13, 2018, 02:26:00 PM
An article in the Times showed that he is one of the leading midfield provider of assists for goals and chances in the division. He was also down the bottom of the same table for tackles and interceptions. That should tell you where he should play.
He is a good player and this continual moan - not fit to wear the shirt etc - does nobody any favours.
He is actually top of our table for tackles and interceptions and therefore better than the rest of our midfield, just that's not good by PL standards generally. It shows we as a team are defending very poorly.


Sting of the North

Quote from: Denver Fulham on December 13, 2018, 05:43:25 PM
There's pretty ample evidence at this point that the starting XI can't (best) accomodate both Cairney and Seri. As Seri also appears to be a bad fit with Anguissa, this could get interesting. We'll see what the gaffer's preferences are, but early returns have shown he will sacrifice Cairney before he does Seri.

Would you kindly present said evidence? Of the more recent games, Seri and Cairney played together against Leicester second half, started against Chelsea and against Southampton. All games we were at least decent. Admittedly, they also started against Man United, but that to me rather points to that the combination of Seri and Cairney may not be the problem as such. Just interested in what ample evidence we have of them not being able to play together?

Denver Fulham

#7
Quote from: Sting of the North on December 13, 2018, 06:26:59 PM
Quote from: Denver Fulham on December 13, 2018, 05:43:25 PM
There's pretty ample evidence at this point that the starting XI can't (best) accomodate both Cairney and Seri. As Seri also appears to be a bad fit with Anguissa, this could get interesting. We'll see what the gaffer's preferences are, but early returns have shown he will sacrifice Cairney before he does Seri.

Would you kindly present said evidence? Of the more recent games, Seri and Cairney played together against Leicester second half, started against Chelsea and against Southampton. All games we were at least decent. Admittedly, they also started against Man United, but that to me rather points to that the combination of Seri and Cairney may not be the problem as such. Just interested in what ample evidence we have of them not being able to play together?

Seri's strengths are in chance creation, and definitely not in tackling or positional defense, although he's generally trying harder in those areas recently (the second goal vs United a notably bad exception). Cairney's strengths are in possession and distribution, and not in tackling or pressing, which he's being asked to do more of by Ranieri, both in media comments and in formation/application. If we're using two of our three midfield spots for guys who can't really defend, we're asking too much of our one defensive midfielder, especially when you're playing guys like Schurlle or Kamara who are terrible defenders (at least positionally).

Since Tom was removed from the starting XI against Leicester, and was subbed at halftime vs United, and Seri wasn't, my assumption is Ranieri sees Seri as more critical. Based on his other options, that may be correct. Based on who impacts our play more, that may not be correct, but who would people here like to see play ahead of Seri? The only real option is a Chambers-Anguissa double DM setup, which I wouldn't mind seeing, but it might not be good offensively. Johansen and McDonald are not viable options, imo. We have no idea about Cisse, but he's also a second DM, not a creator like Seri.

I think it's a legit quandary based more on the new manager's system preferences and our roster. I'd imagine most people here would prefer Cairney play over Seri if we had to choose one. It just hasn't been the manager's choice, at least through four matches.

(Edit: To clarify, it may not even be Tom/Mika's fault. If you had a much better 6 and a right wing who defended properly, you might be able to pull it off. I'm just saying WITH OUR CURRENT ROSTER, it's unclear whether both can play extended minutes together.)

Sting of the North

#8
Quote from: Denver Fulham on December 13, 2018, 06:47:43 PM
Quote from: Sting of the North on December 13, 2018, 06:26:59 PM
Quote from: Denver Fulham on December 13, 2018, 05:43:25 PM
There's pretty ample evidence at this point that the starting XI can't (best) accomodate both Cairney and Seri. As Seri also appears to be a bad fit with Anguissa, this could get interesting. We'll see what the gaffer's preferences are, but early returns have shown he will sacrifice Cairney before he does Seri.

Would you kindly present said evidence? Of the more recent games, Seri and Cairney played together against Leicester second half, started against Chelsea and against Southampton. All games we were at least decent. Admittedly, they also started against Man United, but that to me rather points to that the combination of Seri and Cairney may not be the problem as such. Just interested in what ample evidence we have of them not being able to play together?

Seri's strengths are in chance creation, and definitely not in tackling or positional defense, although he's generally trying harder in those areas recently (the second goal vs United a notably bad exception). Cairney's strengths are in possession and distribution, and not in tackling or pressing, which he's being asked to do more of by Ranieri, both in media comments and in formation/application. If we're using two of our three midfield spots for guys who can't really defend, we're asking too much of our one defensive midfielder, especially when you're playing guys like Schurlle or Kamara who are terrible defenders (at least positionally).

Since Tom was removed from the starting XI against Leicester, and was subbed at halftime vs United, and Seri wasn't, my assumption is Ranieri sees Seri as more critical. Based on his other options, that may be correct. Based on who impacts our play more, that may not be correct, but who would people here like to see play ahead of Seri? The only real option is a Chambers-Anguissa double DM setup, which I wouldn't mind seeing, but it might not be good offensively. Johansen and McDonald are not viable options, imo. We have no idea about Cisse, but he's also a second DM, not a creator like Seri.

I think it's a legit quandary based more on the new manager's system preferences and our roster. I'd imagine most people here would prefer Cairney play over Seri if we had to choose one. It just hasn't been the manager's choice, at least through four matches.

Appreciate the explanation, don't necessarily agree. Actually, Seri is not bad in tackling as evidenced by stats, and he is also generally good at pressing. Or, at least not bad compared to our other midfielders. If we assume that one midfielder is Chambers in a more defensive role, then I do not agree that playing Seri along side him has to be bad. Seri helps out plenty defensively and is not in my opinion a luxury player. Cairney on the other hand, has been playing more of an attacking midfielder, or a number 10. In my opinion Cairney's ability to keep possession is important to the team, since he is miles above everyone else in the squad in that regard. He helps the team breathe a little by not constantly loosing the ball, as is otherwise too often the case. 

Also, maybe as you point out yourself the problem doesn't have to be that Seri and Cairney can't be accommodated in the same starting eleven, but that we cannot also be defensively weak on the flanks like we are when for example Schürrle or Kamara plays.

In short, I agree that the lineup doesn't exactly look defensively great at most times, but not sure the solution is to put Cairney or Seri on the bench. Especially when we really don't seem to have any decent options in the squad, unless Cisse all of a sudden turn out to be a real player.


Sting of the North

Quote from: Denver Fulham on December 13, 2018, 06:47:43 PM

...

(Edit: To clarify, it may not even be Tom/Mika's fault. If you had a much better 6 and a right wing who defended properly, you might be able to pull it off. I'm just saying WITH OUR CURRENT ROSTER, it's unclear whether both can play extended minutes together.)

Just saw this edit. I totally understand where you're coming from. However, I see it the other way around. With the current squad, can we afford to not play both Seri and Cairney when we are very short on decent options?

Nick Bateman

The evidence is in the proof of the pudding, being that Fulham are the bottom of the PL having spent over £100 million and Seri has played in every match!  Having seen Fulham play the best football in ANY division last season with  Tom Cairney instrumental in the heart of almost every move, we have become the "whipping boys" of this league and our defence is suffering from lack of protection because of lazy and indolent frogs like Seri.

Seri was at fault in our last match for at least two goals as he is virtually every week.  Forget phantom stats and believe what you see!
Nick Bateman "knows his footie"

davew

#11
Quote from: Nick Bateman on December 13, 2018, 08:34:43 PM
The evidence is in the proof of the pudding, being that Fulham are the bottom of the PL having spent over £100 million and Seri has played in every match!  Having seen Fulham play the best football in ANY division last season with  Tom Cairney instrumental in the heart of almost every move, we have become the "whipping boys" of this league and our defence is suffering from lack of protection because of lazy and indolent frogs like Seri.

Seri was at fault in our last match for at least two goals as he is virtually every week.  Forget phantom stats and believe what you see!
QuoteThat's what I have done all season but I have now booked an appointment to Vision Express as my Specsavers prescribed glasses are apparently not working, I believe what I see or what I think I see, agree with you Nick!
Grandson of a Former Director of FFC (served 1954 - 1968)


Denver Fulham

Quote from: Sting of the North on December 13, 2018, 07:11:32 PM
Quote from: Denver Fulham on December 13, 2018, 06:47:43 PM

...

(Edit: To clarify, it may not even be Tom/Mika's fault. If you had a much better 6 and a right wing who defended properly, you might be able to pull it off. I'm just saying WITH OUR CURRENT ROSTER, it's unclear whether both can play extended minutes together.)

Just saw this edit. I totally understand where you're coming from. However, I see it the other way around. With the current squad, can we afford to not play both Seri and Cairney when we are very short on decent options?

I don't know what the best option is. The real answer may be "we have a more manageable schedule now." Six of our first 16 matches have been away to top-7 sides. It's been very lopsided, so marginal improvements in play against lesser opponents may equal better results. I hope so, anyway.

Then we can see in January what we really need personnel-wise, but I highly suspect that list includes a CB better than Odoi, a DM much better than what we have seen from Anguissa, and a quality two-way right wing/right midfield type.

MikeW

Much as I regret it, I must add that I think unless he up's his game considerably, Tom is not a Prem player.  So desperately one footed, slow of pace and slow of perception he's getting done time and again by frankly, middle of the road Prem players.

The gulf between Champ and Prem is massive.  Your Cairney's, Ream's, KMac, Johansen ... we need to say thanks but no thanks.  We must move on,  Sadly our recruitment team have proved pretty clueless so far so survival is all we can hope for and then another off load and re build.  The lesson learned so far, avoid French League mid fielders!
"If you're sat in row Z and the ball hits your head, that's ........."

AnOldBrownie

People know my opinion.

Fulham have played 16 games, and conceded 40 goals.   I repeat.   40 goals in less than half a season.



Seri makes tackles (and the occasional Karate kick) and has good feet when he's facing an attacker that has he ball in front of him...   but he's NOT physically to a level where he can be a #6 or a #8 against a strong midfield.  He's not. 

That said...even though he didn't have a great game against United...he showed effort.  And considering he played 3 games in 7 days...that fact impressed me.      Not because he was good, but because it looked like his endurance was getting better.

Claudio is going to ride or die with Seri ...so there is no point in beating a dead horse.

All I ask from Seri is that he play smart...and shows "good" effort.


nose returns

any of us that actually go to the games can clearly see seri is having a terrible time and contributes so very little good and plenty that is second rate
PLUS
His work ethic is a non event.

he needs a spell on the bench to focus his mind

Nick Bateman

#16
One accepted TC being left out having recovered from injury in the Everton game, which incidently was the catalyst for Fulham's decline in form without him.  Now he has recovered and has PROVEN quality the manager should show the nous to pick him, certainly above a player from the French league who has never shown he can handle the physical nature of English football.

I would opt for Kevin Macdonald alongside Cairney.
Nick Bateman "knows his footie"

The Rational Fan

#17
Don't blame the transfers for our problems. We should be able to get a few clean sheets and compete with Cardiff, Wolves and Huddersfield using last years starting XI, but we know the team below would let in 2 goals per game and that's not because of a weak bench of new recruits.

               Betts

Christie Odoi Ream Bryan

         Johnson KMac

AK47/Atyie  Cairney  Sessegnon

                Mitro

Subs: Rico, Mawson, MLM, Chambers, Anguissa, Seri, Shurrle



MJG

The xenophobic language that has creeped onto this site in the last few weeks is making it much more uncomfortable place to visit and I believe unless it's dealt with will not be to the benefit of FOF.
Just the views of a long term fan

Mince n Tatties

Quote from: MJG on December 14, 2018, 06:42:27 AM
The xenophobic language that has creeped onto this site in the last few weeks is making it much more uncomfortable place to visit and I believe unless it's dealt with will not be to the benefit of FOF.

I once went out with a girl who was xenophobic, she hated Cornish Pasties.