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Anguissa - Worst signing in history?

Started by Aaron, February 15, 2019, 11:56:54 PM

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filham

But who was responsible for signing him, which scout saw him play?, Jocanovic must have given his OK and young Khan must have listened to a few opinions before signing him.
Of course with our system no one will admit to their guilt ,instead they will all say "His Stats Looked Good"

gang

Quote from: @jolslover on February 16, 2019, 10:07:20 AM
Quote from: hovewhite on February 16, 2019, 09:21:51 AM
Quote from: grandad on February 16, 2019, 08:52:54 AM
I have one player. Fotheringham.
yeh forgot about him another gem of stats man!

Fotheringham was bought in because he was Magaths mate before we even used stats for recruitment
[/


Felix doesn't have any mates, Fothringham was signed on recommendation that he could do a job, problem was that job didn't involve football.

Woolly Mammoth

Quote from: gang on February 16, 2019, 10:31:50 AM
Quote from: @jolslover on February 16, 2019, 10:07:20 AM
Quote from: hovewhite on February 16, 2019, 09:21:51 AM
Quote from: grandad on February 16, 2019, 08:52:54 AM
I have one player. Fotheringham.
yeh forgot about him another gem of stats man!

Fotheringham was bought in because he was Magaths mate before we even used stats for recruitment
[/


Felix doesn't have any mates, Fothringham was signed on recommendation that he could do a job, problem was that job didn't involve football.

I think he initially applied for a job as a Turnstile Operator, and following some back scratching and observations on his stats by the dudes hanging around the Recruitment Office.
They thought gee man, I guess going by his stats, ( in very loud high pitched voices ), the computer says yes.
Its not the man in the fight, it's the fight in the man.  🐘

Never forget your Roots.


toshes mate

Thirty million pounds is a lot of money to shell out on the promise of 'what might be', especially for a club looking for players 'who will be' as they seek to consolidate a promotion.  If money were no object at FFC then I can see the logic in trusting that Anguissa will be a player much sought after in the foreseeable future and he has, as his contract says, a fair time to prove he was worth every penny of that amount if he is sought after at any time whilst a member of our squad.  None of us know what is to be, and I, for one, wouldn't wish to condemn the lad because he is simply another misfit in a team of misfits struggling to find an identity as a cohesive unit.  His age doesn't make such difficulty easier to overcome since the adaptations required to 'fit in' have proven tricky to many others in the current squad including one of our very own.  Anguissa deserves a chance in a much more balanced squad before we ultimately pass judgment upon him, and I think others in football, including the media, will save their pungent reminisces for a later date.   Suffice to say he has a lot to prove but a lot of time left to prove it. 

mrmicawbers

Think I will give him some more time before I would consider making an appraisal of him.Some players need time when coming from another Country.

Jamie88

As poor as he has been, every time this sorts of issues are brought up, remember that how much the club paid for him is not his fault! He is accountable for poor performances, but we have had plenty of those over the years. The club is accountable for the ridiculous amount of money they paid for him, not the player himself.
Players often get more abuse than a similarly underachieving player who happened to be bought for a lot less money


gang

Quote from: Jamie88 on February 16, 2019, 10:58:51 AM
As poor as he has been, every time this sorts of issues are brought up, remember that how much the club paid for him is not his fault! He is accountable for poor performances, but we have had plenty of those over the years. The club is accountable for the ridiculous amount of money they paid for him, not the player himself.
Players often get more abuse than a similarly underachieving player who happened to be bought for a lot less money



I agree, but the higher the money, the higher the expectations.

Jamie88

Quote from: gang on February 16, 2019, 12:59:45 PM
Quote from: Jamie88 on February 16, 2019, 10:58:51 AM
As poor as he has been, every time this sorts of issues are brought up, remember that how much the club paid for him is not his fault! He is accountable for poor performances, but we have had plenty of those over the years. The club is accountable for the ridiculous amount of money they paid for him, not the player himself.
Players often get more abuse than a similarly underachieving player who happened to be bought for a lot less money



I agree, but the higher the money, the higher the expectations.

Still don't see how Anguissa would be accountable for that. However, the club is.

Woolly Mammoth

Quote from: mrmicawbers on February 16, 2019, 10:51:39 AM
Think I will give him some more time before I would consider making an appraisal of him.Some players need time when coming from another Country.

For £30 million quid, I expect him to make an immediate impact, and hit the ground running.
We are not running a holiday camp for convalescence.
If any player whoever he is, and wherever he is coming from. If there is a risk of a so called delay in settling in, then don't take that risk. How many times have we signed players from overseas who have been sent out on loan or not come up to scratch because they cannot settle or are just not good enough because of the culture of our football. There have been too many, and some of them expensive ones, too many for comfort.
Just one of a number of issues that have contributed to our demise.
Its not the man in the fight, it's the fight in the man.  🐘

Never forget your Roots.


Matt10

If it was an isolated signing, who didn't make a lick of positive difference, then I'd agree with this notion of him being a bad signing.

However, this season is a compilation of many mistakes, and Anguissa is not the only signing to be questioned. I think it's highly unfair to single him out, even though he has not looked up to speed. If you really think about it, there have been good signings who have not looked up to speed either. Before Chambers was repositioned about 80% on here were wanting him to never wear the shirt again.

So, no, I do not agree with singling out any of our players when the season as a whole is more responsible. At the end of the day, the managers have a job to do, and need to make the best of what they're given.   

Statto

Quote from: Matt10 on February 16, 2019, 03:33:52 PM
Chambers was repositioned about 80% on here were wanting him to never wear the shirt again.

Not a great example. Chambers is still a poor DM. A poor man's Steve Sidwell. If we were to get back into the PL in the near future, and needed a DM, I certainly wouldn't want it to be Chambers in a million years. He is more useful there than at CB but nonetheless, after his loan expires, I still don't want to see him in a Fulham shirt again, unless it is as a rarely used squad player.

Matt10

Quote from: Statto on February 16, 2019, 03:42:31 PM
Quote from: Matt10 on February 16, 2019, 03:33:52 PM
Chambers was repositioned about 80% on here were wanting him to never wear the shirt again.

Not a great example. Chambers is still a poor DM. A poor man's Steve Sidwell. If we were to get back into the PL in the near future, and needed a DM, I certainly wouldn't want it to be Chambers in a million years. He is more useful there than at CB but nonetheless, after his loan expires, I still don't want to see him in a Fulham shirt again, unless it is as a rarely used squad player.

No, he's not an ideal choice, but if anything that is a testament to what kind of season we have had. So by default, almost every player in a Fulham shirt is questioned. Lumping in the likes of Anguissa is just an easy target.

If anyone I would have picked, it would be Fosu-Mensah. He's been poor in many respects at the RB position. However, what if he's another Chambers that should have been repositioned? Chambers isn't a poor signing or gets on a thread like this because his value was found by repositioning him. 


bill taylors apprentice

#32
If you consider his transfer fee and his non contribution up until now he must be up there as among the worst ever signings.

Frank large got no sympathy because he replaced Clarke and his ineptitude in front of goal coincided with our sinking through the divisions.
I liked Marlet but we thought he was going to be another T. Henry and he couldn't play up to his price tag.
Fotheringham was a joke and more a sign of the depth the club had sunk.
Mitroglou was brought in to do a job i.e. score the goals to keep us up and just never showed up. If you consider the money spent and lost due to relegation he's my No 1 Worst.

At this moment in time I'd say Anguissa's certainly a contender but there is a chance he can change that if he gets fit and sticks around.

f321ffc

Quote from: gang on February 16, 2019, 12:07:57 AM
Yes, but how many Frank Large. The worst signing I can remember.
And to think he was brought in to replace Allan Clarke 064.gif
Growing old is mandatory
Growing up is optional

Sting of the North

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on February 16, 2019, 02:51:29 PM
Quote from: mrmicawbers on February 16, 2019, 10:51:39 AM
Think I will give him some more time before I would consider making an appraisal of him.Some players need time when coming from another Country.

For £30 million quid, I expect him to make an immediate impact, and hit the ground running.
We are not running a holiday camp for convalescence.
If any player whoever he is, and wherever he is coming from. If there is a risk of a so called delay in settling in, then don't take that risk. How many times have we signed players from overseas who have been sent out on loan or not come up to scratch because they cannot settle or are just not good enough because of the culture of our football. There have been too many, and some of them expensive ones, too many for comfort.
Just one of a number of issues that have contributed to our demise.

I think there is always a risk of a so called delay in settling in, in every transfer. So to categorically say "don't take that risk" doesn't work. I agree however, that with an increased risk because of factors like the ones you are mentioning (time to settle, time to adapt to football culture), an increased potential upside is needed (huge potential sell on value, filling a desperate need, regarded as a class above what we can otherwise get). But transfers are always risky business, more so with huge money involved.

Also remember that there are players like Dempsey or Dembele (the first) that started out below par/underwhelming but ended up looking like great signings in hindsight.


Sting of the North

#35
Quote from: HillingdonFFC on February 16, 2019, 10:11:14 AM
Quote from: JoelH5 on February 16, 2019, 04:34:33 AM
He's only 23. A season in the Championship could be exactly what he needs. Let's hope he stays and gets game time. I think he could be good with some consistency, especially at a lower quality level.




I heard people say the same about Kamara that hes only 22-23. 23 is not young in football terms, you got players that are world class in their teens. Sure players can improve with experience etc but at 23 you should be somewhere near the finished article

How many teens are playing regular first team football for big clubs? I don't have the statistics but would be surprised if they are not the exception rather than the norm. You also got lots of players not gaining star status until later (Drogba, Vardy).

Point is I think that all players are different. Anguissa has only two seasons of regular first team football, with a potential 10+ seasons left to play. In that sense he could be considered young and there is in my opinion no reason to think that he doesn't have time to develop further. It is a case of people developing at different rates and ages, because of their background and personality but also other external circumstances.

Woolly Mammoth

Quote from: Sting of the North on February 16, 2019, 08:58:43 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on February 16, 2019, 02:51:29 PM
Quote from: mrmicawbers on February 16, 2019, 10:51:39 AM
Think I will give him some more time before I would consider making an appraisal of him.Some players need time when coming from another Country.

For £30 million quid, I expect him to make an immediate impact, and hit the ground running.
We are not running a holiday camp for convalescence.
If any player whoever he is, and wherever he is coming from. If there is a risk of a so called delay in settling in, then don't take that risk. How many times have we signed players from overseas who have been sent out on loan or not come up to scratch because they cannot settle or are just not good enough because of the culture of our football. There have been too many, and some of them expensive ones, too many for comfort.
Just one of a number of issues that have contributed to our demise.

I think there is always a risk of a so called delay in settling in, in every transfer. So to categorically say "don't take that risk" doesn't work. I agree however, that with an increased risk because of factors like the ones you are mentioning (time to settle, time to adapt to football culture), an increased potential upside is needed (huge potential sell on value, filling a desperate need, regarded as a class above what we can otherwise get). But transfers are always risky business, more so with huge money involved.

Also remember that there are players like Dempsey or Dembele (the first) that started out below par/underwhelming but ended up looking like great signings in hindsight.

I cannot really agree with your conclusion. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, too many errors of judgement, blind risk taking which has contributed to where we are now.
Money irresponsibly wasted, because they never learn, the same mistakes every year, from their naive maximum age limits, to signing injured unfit players, who have to take turns to sit in the medical room, as there are not enough seats. Not forgetting lightweight unsuitable players, who selects them, the tea lady. Just don't get me on how they operate their stats system.
Poor preparation and organisation from preseason onwards.
Then there is their hiring and firing of managers and other staff, from Felix Magath to Craig Kline, and I haven't even included the innocent victims.
So many self inflicted wounds. 
A classic case of the blind leading the blind.

Its not the man in the fight, it's the fight in the man.  🐘

Never forget your Roots.

ScalleysDad

I do not wish to divert the topic but as Fotheringham has been mentioned. He was taking some serious flak before he even kicked a ball. The P2 Enclave watched in awe as he brought the ball down, advanced a few paces and laid the ball off with a decent pass that found its target. Blimey we've cracked it we thought. Alas that was it.


Sting of the North

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on February 16, 2019, 09:27:31 PM
Quote from: Sting of the North on February 16, 2019, 08:58:43 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on February 16, 2019, 02:51:29 PM
Quote from: mrmicawbers on February 16, 2019, 10:51:39 AM
Think I will give him some more time before I would consider making an appraisal of him.Some players need time when coming from another Country.

For £30 million quid, I expect him to make an immediate impact, and hit the ground running.
We are not running a holiday camp for convalescence.
If any player whoever he is, and wherever he is coming from. If there is a risk of a so called delay in settling in, then don't take that risk. How many times have we signed players from overseas who have been sent out on loan or not come up to scratch because they cannot settle or are just not good enough because of the culture of our football. There have been too many, and some of them expensive ones, too many for comfort.
Just one of a number of issues that have contributed to our demise.

I think there is always a risk of a so called delay in settling in, in every transfer. So to categorically say "don't take that risk" doesn't work. I agree however, that with an increased risk because of factors like the ones you are mentioning (time to settle, time to adapt to football culture), an increased potential upside is needed (huge potential sell on value, filling a desperate need, regarded as a class above what we can otherwise get). But transfers are always risky business, more so with huge money involved.

Also remember that there are players like Dempsey or Dembele (the first) that started out below par/underwhelming but ended up looking like great signings in hindsight.

I cannot really agree with your conclusion. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, too many errors of judgement, blind risk taking which has contributed to where we are now.
Money irresponsibly wasted, because they never learn, the same mistakes every year, from their naive maximum age limits, to signing injured unfit players, who have to take turns to sit in the medical room, as there are not enough seats. Not forgetting lightweight unsuitable players, who selects them, the tea lady. Just don't get me on how they operate their stats system.
Poor preparation and organisation from preseason onwards.
Then there is their hiring and firing of managers and other staff, from Felix Magath to CK, and I haven't even included the innocent victims.
So many self inflicted wounds. 
A classic case of the blind leading the blind.

I am not really sure what conclusion of mine you don't agree with? My only real conclusion was that I don't believe that it is possible to avoid risks in transfer dealings, which you of course don't have to agree with. I didn't try to disregard your concerns and my post was in no way defending our current recruitment set up, which the rest of your post seem to suggest that you believe I did. Sorry if I am misunderstanding you.

The Rational Fan

#39
Anguissa cost around 25% of one years TV Revenue and Marlet cost around 50% of TV Revenue. I believe we paid 30% of TV Revenue too much for Marlet, so Anguissa doesn't even need to kick a ball to be less of a waste of money.

There were tonnes of other examples in Tigana era of paying huge % of TV revenue on players, our wages bill alone was 150% of TV Revenue then, if we go above 75% of tv revenue of wages we will be at risk of automatically get relegated from the EPL and some reports have FFC wages as low 50% of TV Revenue.

MAF didn't care, he thought the cheapest way to stay up was spend massive for two seasons, the promotion season and first season in the league.