Cardiff 11 points better than us.....

[The Rational Fan]

Not sure what Cardiff have to do with how good or bad we are??

They're a better team than us. Higher points total last season to seal automatic promotion & beat us, scoring 4 earlier this season.

As things stand, Cardiff are much better than us.

In three consecutive seasons Leicester finished 14th, 1st and 12th. Does that mean the same bunch of players went from being the 14th best in the league, to the best, then back down to 12th, in the space of 3 years?

Of course not. It just shows teams can over- and underachieve.

Cardiff had less talent than us last year and weren't particularly good at football, but they played well above themselves.

This season, most of our players are grossly under-performing.

And credit where it's due, this year Cardiff, whilst they don't have anyone of the same calibre as Seri, Cairney or Mitrovic, are a well-balanced, well-practised, motivated unit with tactics that play to their strengths.

Or in other words, they're a better team.

Yes, but a team is more than recruitment and players. Scotland has beaten England over 25 times, but nearly all of those games England had the better players. If you compare Fulham to Watford this season, they have a little more money and spent it a little better, but most of the difference is they look like organised and cohesive unit compared to us (or even compared to themselves last season).

[Statto]

Not sure what Cardiff have to do with how good or bad we are??

They're a better team than us. Higher points total last season to seal automatic promotion & beat us, scoring 4 earlier this season.

As things stand, Cardiff are much better than us.

In three consecutive seasons Leicester finished 14th, 1st and 12th. Does that mean the same bunch of players went from being the 14th best in the league, to the best, then back down to 12th, in the space of 3 years?

Of course not. It just shows teams can over- and underachieve.

Cardiff had less talent than us last year and weren't particularly good at football, but they played well above themselves.

This season, most of our players are grossly under-performing.

And credit where it's due, this year Cardiff, whilst they don't have anyone of the same calibre as Seri, Cairney or Mitrovic, are a well-balanced, well-practised, motivated unit with tactics that play to their strengths.

Or in other words, they're a better team.

They're a worse group of players but performing better as a unit. Whether that makes them a "better team" is a matter of semantics so ordinarily I wouldn't argue with you. But the OP and everyone else on this thread can see they're above us in the table, and patently, the point being made is about their inherent individual quality (relative to FFC) rather than how well they're actually performing as a team. So you can keep saying they're "a better team" and in some contexts that might be a reasonable point, but in this context it's a bit silly tbh.

[Fulham76]

Not sure what Cardiff have to do with how good or bad we are??

They're a better team than us. Higher points total last season to seal automatic promotion & beat us, scoring 4 earlier this season.

As things stand, Cardiff are much better than us.

In three consecutive seasons Leicester finished 14th, 1st and 12th. Does that mean the same bunch of players went from being the 14th best in the league, to the best, then back down to 12th, in the space of 3 years?

Of course not. It just shows teams can over- and underachieve.

Cardiff had less talent than us last year and weren't particularly good at football, but they played well above themselves.

This season, most of our players are grossly under-performing.

And credit where it's due, this year Cardiff, whilst they don't have anyone of the same calibre as Seri, Cairney or Mitrovic, are a well-balanced, well-practised, motivated unit with tactics that play to their strengths.

Or in other words, they're a better team.

They're a worse group of players but performing better as a unit. Whether that makes them a "better team" is a matter of semantics so ordinarily I wouldn't argue with you. But the OP and everyone else on this thread can see they're above us in the table, and patently, the point being made is about their inherent individual quality (relative to FFC) rather than how well they're actually performing as a team. So you can keep saying they're "a better team" and in some contexts that might be a reasonable point, but in this context it's a bit silly and cretinous tbh. 

The OP signs off by comparing us to Tigana's team & suggests our current squad is no match in terms of quality, which I fully agree with. Although, don't know why people are so offended that Cardiff are above us?My suggestion to them being above us is because they're the better 'team'.

We have a few higher profile players; Sess, Cairney & Mitrovic for example, but other than Mitrovic, are the rest of our individuals currently better than Cardiff's equivalent players? In all honesty I don't know, I haven't studied their squad as closely as it appears you have noting how adamant you are that we're so superior, but I'd disagree on this & last seasons showing.

As for being silly & cretinous, mine was a valid response to the original post whether you like it, agree/disagree or not.

Over to you to grab the last word as usual....

[gang]

Comparing us with Cardiff and thinking we are better seems 'most strange'.
All we need to do is look at the league table to see who's best. We have been like toothless tigers all season and deserve to be where we are, Cardiff fight for the points every game.
Both clubs will be playing in the Championship next season, but with our present team and ability we will struggle to finish in the top half. Their work ethic will serve them well, ours will cause us to struggle.

[Bluebird23]

It's because with their defence they are harder to beat. They will get the odd lucky win. Our defence is so woefull even if we manage a lucky goal like today, it's never enough.

Ask West Ham fans about lucky wins (check out just how many goals we've conceded as well, ouch). If it wasn't for some good saves by Fabianski and some shocking finishing by Niasse, today could have been 6-1 to us.

Sadly, for us, pretty much all the other results went against us, and I see us going down.

If Warnock hadn't wasted pretty much all of the transfer kitty on average championship players, and bought even one half decent striker, we may well have stayed up.

As much as I live in hope, see you in the Championship.

Our attack is better than yours. The problem is, our defence is nowhere near as organised or composed as yours.

Yes. I look forward to playing you next season.

Your attack better than ours? Err, yes, by one goal!

We also have the second worst defence in the division, only yourselves have conceded more.

[Woolly Mammoth]

I have no liking for Cardiff, never have done, never will.
All the same though their Manager, Neil Warnock derided on here as almost the devil himself.
Has not only been responsible for achieving promotion ahead of us, he has actually put them in a position of 11 points ahead of us, with a better goal difference, and every chance of surviving, and he is responsible for their fighting performances.
Not only that, but we are on our third manager, whilst he is still at the helm.
So I wouldn't blame him for having a rye smile if he does keep them up.
So currently I did not think we are really in a position to judge others on their merits I would have thought after our pigs ear of a season.

[Wingnut]

We desperately needed one signed last Summer, May have meant a couple more points.

That loss to Everton was a killer. They are a soft touch away from home and I thought you'd get three points against them. Think that loss may come back to haunt you.

[Russianrob]

This puts in its proper perspective just how bad this season has been for us.

[RaySmith]

I have no liking for Cardiff, never have done, never will.
All the same though their Manager, Neil Warnock derided on here as almost the devil himself.
Has not only been responsible for achieving promotion ahead of us, he has actually put them in a position of 11 points ahead of us, with a better goal difference, and every chance of surviving, and he is responsible for their fighting performances.
Not only that, but we are on our third manager, whilst he is still at the helm.
So I wouldn't blame him for having a rye smile if he does keep them up.
So currently I did not think we are really in a position to judge others on their merits I would have thought after our pigs ear of a season.

0001.jpeg

Comments from our owner about Cardiff's quality and style of play, and on here about Colin and the way his teams play, make me cringe.

Cardiff have it right compared to the shambles at Fulham. They ae organised and play as a team, to the strength of the players available to them - who all seem committed to the cause.

I wonder how Warnock would do with the Fulham squad - would we then be more solid at the  back? The answer, I think is sadly 'no' - even he couldn't make our players into decent defenders, and could generally struggle with our squad.

[Chutney]

Cardiff have better players than us. They finished above us last season also.

[The Rational Fan]

Not sure what Cardiff have to do with how good or bad we are??

They're a better team than us. Higher points total last season to seal automatic promotion & beat us, scoring 4 earlier this season.

As things stand, Cardiff are much better than us.

In three consecutive seasons Leicester finished 14th, 1st and 12th. Does that mean the same bunch of players went from being the 14th best in the league, to the best, then back down to 12th, in the space of 3 years?

Of course not. It just shows teams can over- and underachieve.

Cardiff had less talent than us last year and weren't particularly good at football, but they played well above themselves.

This season, most of our players are grossly under-performing.

And credit where it's due, this year Cardiff, whilst they don't have anyone of the same calibre as Seri, Cairney or Mitrovic, are a well-balanced, well-practised, motivated unit with tactics that play to their strengths.

Or in other words, they're a better team.

They're a worse group of players but performing better as a unit. Whether that makes them a "better team" is a matter of semantics so ordinarily I wouldn't argue with you. But the OP and everyone else on this thread can see they're above us in the table, and patently, the point being made is about their inherent individual quality (relative to FFC) rather than how well they're actually performing as a team. So you can keep saying they're "a better team" and in some contexts that might be a reasonable point, but in this context it's a bit silly and cretinous tbh. 

The OP signs off by comparing us to Tigana's team & suggests our current squad is no match in terms of quality, which I fully agree with. Although, don't know why people are so offended that Cardiff are above us?My suggestion to them being above us is because they're the better 'team'.

We have a few higher profile players; Sess, Cairney & Mitrovic for example, but other than Mitrovic, are the rest of our individuals currently better than Cardiff's equivalent players? In all honesty I don't know, I haven't studied their squad as closely as it appears you have noting how adamant you are that we're so superior, but I'd disagree on this & last seasons showing.

As for being silly & cretinous, mine was a valid response to the original post whether you like it, agree/disagree or not.

Over to you to grab the last word as usual....

The Tigana Era had more bigger transfers and also huge mistakes. If you use the Transfer Price Index to adjust transfer fees, the average premier player was worth 3.0m in 2001/02 and 15.3 in 2018/19, so its only fair to multiple each transfer by 5 times.

Here is a list of players transfer fees adjusted with football inflation, so Tigana's team should be a lot lot better than this bargain basement one.

Steve Marlet 80m
Edwin van der Sar 47m
Alain Goma 37m
Lee Clark 36m
Steed Malbranque 30m
Seri 27m
Barry Hayles 25m
Jon Harley   24m
Sylvain Legwinski 24m
Zambo Anguissa 22m
Louis Saha   19m
Aleksandar Mitrovic 18m
Alfie Mawson 15m

[Marinelloguthrie]

Not sure what Cardiff have to do with how good or bad we are??

They're a better team than us. Higher points total last season to seal automatic promotion & beat us, scoring 4 earlier this season.

As things stand, Cardiff are much better than us.

In three consecutive seasons Leicester finished 14th, 1st and 12th. Does that mean the same bunch of players went from being the 14th best in the league, to the best, then back down to 12th, in the space of 3 years?

Of course not. It just shows teams can over- and underachieve.

Cardiff had less talent than us last year and weren't particularly good at football, but they played well above themselves.

This season, most of our players are grossly under-performing.

And credit where it's due, this year Cardiff, whilst they don't have anyone of the same calibre as Seri, Cairney or Mitrovic, are a well-balanced, well-practised, motivated unit with tactics that play to their strengths.

Or in other words, they're a better team.

They're a worse group of players but performing better as a unit. Whether that makes them a "better team" is a matter of semantics so ordinarily I wouldn't argue with you. But the OP and everyone else on this thread can see they're above us in the table, and patently, the point being made is about their inherent individual quality (relative to FFC) rather than how well they're actually performing as a team. So you can keep saying they're "a better team" and in some contexts that might be a reasonable point, but in this context it's a bit silly and cretinous tbh. 

The OP signs off by comparing us to Tigana's team & suggests our current squad is no match in terms of quality, which I fully agree with. Although, don't know why people are so offended that Cardiff are above us?My suggestion to them being above us is because they're the better 'team'.

We have a few higher profile players; Sess, Cairney & Mitrovic for example, but other than Mitrovic, are the rest of our individuals currently better than Cardiff's equivalent players? In all honesty I don't know, I haven't studied their squad as closely as it appears you have noting how adamant you are that we're so superior, but I'd disagree on this & last seasons showing.

As for being silly & cretinous, mine was a valid response to the original post whether you like it, agree/disagree or not.

Over to you to grab the last word as usual....

The Tigana Era had more bigger transfers and also huge mistakes. If you use the Transfer Price Index to adjust transfer fees, the average premier player was worth 3.0m in 2001/02 and 15.3 in 2018/19, so its only fair to multiple each transfer by 5 times.

Here is a list of players transfer fees adjusted with football inflation, so Tigana's team should be a lot lot better than this bargain basement one.

Steve Marlet 80m
Edwin van der Sar 47m
Alain Goma 37m
Lee Clark 36m
Steed Malbranque 30m
Seri 27m
Barry Hayles 25m
Jon Harley   24m
Sylvain Legwinski 24m
Zambo Anguissa 22m
Louis Saha   19m
Aleksandar Mitrovic 18m
Alfie Mawson 15m

I was talking about the squad that won promotion being stronger than last years team.
Then we added van der sar, steed, leggy and marlet, 3 of which were top top players for us. This was no doubt helped by the number of  quality players we already had at the club in all positions. This meant we did not need a major overhaul causing disruption and lack of a team togetherness and spirit.
Cardiff kept there togetherness and spirit by adding a minimum amount of players. When if atall did Cairney, Macdonald and Stef play together this season?
We are not a team this season just a squad of individuals.

Also even allowing for multiplying tiganas premiership buys by 5 the
prices seem a bit high from what i can remember.

[Matt10]

Not sure what Cardiff have to do with how good or bad we are??

They're a better team than us. Higher points total last season to seal automatic promotion & beat us, scoring 4 earlier this season.

As things stand, Cardiff are much better than us.

In three consecutive seasons Leicester finished 14th, 1st and 12th. Does that mean the same bunch of players went from being the 14th best in the league, to the best, then back down to 12th, in the space of 3 years?

Of course not. It just shows teams can over- and underachieve.

Cardiff had less talent than us last year and weren't particularly good at football, but they played well above themselves.

This season, most of our players are grossly under-performing.

And credit where it's due, this year Cardiff, whilst they don't have anyone of the same calibre as Seri, Cairney or Mitrovic, are a well-balanced, well-practised, motivated unit with tactics that play to their strengths.

Or in other words, they're a better team.

They're a worse group of players but performing better as a unit. Whether that makes them a "better team" is a matter of semantics so ordinarily I wouldn't argue with you. But the OP and everyone else on this thread can see they're above us in the table, and patently, the point being made is about their inherent individual quality (relative to FFC) rather than how well they're actually performing as a team. So you can keep saying they're "a better team" and in some contexts that might be a reasonable point, but in this context it's a bit silly and cretinous tbh. 

The OP signs off by comparing us to Tigana's team & suggests our current squad is no match in terms of quality, which I fully agree with. Although, don't know why people are so offended that Cardiff are above us?My suggestion to them being above us is because they're the better 'team'.

We have a few higher profile players; Sess, Cairney & Mitrovic for example, but other than Mitrovic, are the rest of our individuals currently better than Cardiff's equivalent players? In all honesty I don't know, I haven't studied their squad as closely as it appears you have noting how adamant you are that we're so superior, but I'd disagree on this & last seasons showing.

As for being silly & cretinous, mine was a valid response to the original post whether you like it, agree/disagree or not.

Over to you to grab the last word as usual....

The Tigana Era had more bigger transfers and also huge mistakes. If you use the Transfer Price Index to adjust transfer fees, the average premier player was worth 3.0m in 2001/02 and 15.3 in 2018/19, so its only fair to multiple each transfer by 5 times.

Here is a list of players transfer fees adjusted with football inflation, so Tigana's team should be a lot lot better than this bargain basement one.

Steve Marlet 80m
Edwin van der Sar 47m
Alain Goma 37m
Lee Clark 36m
Steed Malbranque 30m
Seri 27m
Barry Hayles 25m
Jon Harley   24m
Sylvain Legwinski 24m
Zambo Anguissa 22m
Louis Saha   19m
Aleksandar Mitrovic 18m
Alfie Mawson 15m

I was talking about the squad that won promotion being stronger than last years team.
Then we added van der sar, steed, leggy and marlet, 3 of which were top top players for us. This was no doubt helped by the number of  quality players we already had at the club in all positions. This meant we did not need a major overhaul causing disruption and lack of a team togetherness and spirit.
Cardiff kept there togetherness and spirit by adding a minimum amount of players. When if atall did Cairney, Macdonald and Stef play together this season?
We are not a team this season just a squad of individuals.

Also even allowing for multiplying tiganas premiership buys by 5 the
prices seem a bit high from what i can remember.

In bold - truer words have never been spoken.

We did not need a major overhaul. Even if we did, the manager didn't have to play the new individuals. Poor us that our owner wanted to give us more players.

A midfield 3 that distributed the ball to goal scorers in the Championship, just imagine what could have been. I know it's popular to say "not PL quality", but that was the cause of our downfall. That mantra hurt us. As a result, what we already had, was quickly discarded.

What I feel, in some hindsight of course, could have been utilized as early as we went on our losing streak. The extra 11 players was fine because it brought in depth that should have challenged our starters from the unbeaten 23.

Starters:

                       Rico

TFM      Chambers      Ream    Bryan

                  McDonald
     Cairney                   Johansen

Schurrle           Mitro           Sessegnon

Depth & Challengers:

TFM >> Christie/Odoi
Chambers >> Odoi/Mawson
Ream >> Mawson/LeMarchand
Bryan >> LeMarchand
McDonald >> Seri/Anguissa/Cisse
Cairney >> Seri
Johansen >> Seri
Schurrle >> Vietto/Ayite/Kebano
Sess >> Vietto/Ayite/Kebano

[The Rational Fan]

I was talking about the squad that won promotion being stronger than last years team.
Then we added van der sar, steed, leggy and marlet, 3 of which were top top players for us. This was no doubt helped by the number of  quality players we already had at the club in all positions. This meant we did not need a major overhaul causing disruption and lack of a team togetherness and spirit.
Cardiff kept there togetherness and spirit by adding a minimum amount of players. When if atall did Cairney, Macdonald and Stef play together this season?
We are not a team this season just a squad of individuals.

Also even allowing for multiplying tiganas premiership buys by 5 the
prices seem a bit high from what i can remember.

In bold - truer words have never been spoken.

We did not need a major overhaul. Even if we did, the manager didn't have to play the new individuals. Poor us that our owner wanted to give us more players. A midfield 3 that distributed the ball to goal scorers in the Championship, just imagine what could have been. I know it's popular to say "not PL quality", but that was the cause of our downfall. That mantra hurt us. As a result, what we already had, was quickly discarded.

What I feel, in some hindsight of course, could have been utilized as early as we went on our losing streak. The extra 11 players was fine because it brought in depth that should have challenged our starters from the unbeaten 23.

Starters:

                       Rico
TFM      Chambers      Ream    Bryan
                  McDonald
     Cairney                   Johansen
Schurrle           Mitro           Sessegnon

Depth & Challengers:

TFM >> Christie/Odoi
Chambers >> Odoi/Mawson
Ream >> Mawson/LeMarchand
Bryan >> LeMarchand
McDonald >> Seri/Anguissa/Cisse
Cairney >> Seri
Johansen >> Seri
Schurrle >> Vietto/Ayite/Kebano
Sess >> Vietto/Ayite/Kebano

The bold quotes are spot on "We are not a team this season just a squad of individuals". It takes time for players to gel, no matter how good your players.

The best example of this is Glasgow Rangers 2012-13 when they went down from the Scottish Premier League straight down to Division Three losing their whole first team. Even though the squad remaining contained Internationals and cost about 9x more than all the other teams combined, they managed to drop 25 points that season which is more than they often dropped in the SPL. Interestingly, the team went up to the Scottish League One and the same players in 2013-14 only dropped six points.

I think we need to stick with the squad we have next season, but we need to work out are starting XI fast; and that requires dropping Rico and Chambers cause they are not staying and we don't get a cent if they get sold.

[ALG01]

cardiff are a good comparison.
They have a loathsome manager and style but they have a single plan, stick to it, stick together and every single player puts in a shift. they also have a recognisable defence.

We have a bunch of over hyped prima donnas and sick notes brought in in summer
the dismissal far too early of a brilliant manager
A CEO that appears to do nothing
A director of football that is clueless and but for being dad's son would a) never have got the job and b) even if he had got the job would have been sacked ages ago
A stay away owner that does not really seem to care much about his investment

And whilst the players may not be mensa level people they are not stupid either.
they can see the DoF is useless and is being indulged and as a result that sends a shock wave through the squad. That is just basic rules of management not to have such a situation. It is not being the son that is the issue, that is quite good. It is being the son and totally out of his depth and leaving the quo as status.

It is no wonder the half a team left from last season are confused and the new players would be twice as good if they managed ordinary.
Seriously, if you saw Seri or Anguisa play for an opposition team you would never come away from that game thinking, I wish we had him.

We all know the issues, and we all know there are a few disruptive posters here that forwhatever reason try and disrupt the overwhelming more knowegdable ,ajprity biew that TK has to be relieved of his duties if we are ever to properly succeed.