Anybody got news on AK47

[Twig]

Nobody is "making up stories", but apart from the penalty incident which happened in full view, we only know part of the facts about the others (whether in mitigation or condemnation).
What we are all doing is then making a judgement based on that partial information. I have no problem with that and respect both points of view. I just happen to prefer to move on and get rid of him. My reasons;
By no means a complete footballer, speed yes, touch no.
The penalty incident was shocking and I witnessed that with my own eyes.
The other incidents add up and when combined with the above suggest to me he has a bad attitude.
He is not an out and out striker so not a Mitro replacement and we have a lot of wide players to choose from.
Shouldn't be too hard to replace if necessary but I think we hav e more pressing needs.

Therefore I say make a clean break.

[Statto]

It was Tom Cairney who said it on an episode of Teammates on Soccer am.

Thanks. That was in September. He said the players have to be in for training and have their breakfast by 9:45am but Kamara always gets there at 10am. He didn't comment on other players' timekeeping, and whilst he picked AK47 as the worst, I doubt all the other players' timekeeping is perfect. For further context, in the same interview he said Mcdonald always finds something to moan about, and Johansen is a "diva" and always the first to leave training.

I suppose it's up to each poster how much significance they attach to all that but for me it will be absolutely zero.

[Sting of the North]

I recall a player (I don't remember whom) saying that AK regularly turned up late for training. If true, this, in my opinion, would be disrespectful towards Jokanovic (among others).

It is surprising how many on here have a so very clear opinion in this matter, although most (all?) knows very little about what has actually happened, and what the rest of the players and coaching team thinks of Kamara. If your guesses are correct, meaning that he shows up late, and is generally disrespectful then surely he will not be back playing for us unless he clears his act up.

Firstly, though I may have imagined that a fellow player revealed that AK often turned up late for training, there's no guesswork involved.

Secondly, why is it a surprise that I would express an opinion based on something I've read? All the more so as I qualify my view with the condition, 'If true...'


Scrolling through today's additions to the thread, what I find contrary is that you subsequently commend an interpretation which uses the same basis that, in my case, you claim to decry: guesswork.

...and therefore suspect that "attacking" the colleague actually involved shouting and gesticulating angry towards them.

Very well put Statto.

Now, this version of events may be so.

But we don't know.

No less likely, therefore, is the possibility that the person Kamara attacked didn't want to press charges, and the Club chose not to pursue the possibility of criminal damage - in part, to help to achieve it's intention to send the player out on loan.

First off, I didn't mean to aim my comment on being surprised at you in particular, and I gladly admit that there has been several far less reasoned posts than yours. I quoted you because I used the part about being late as an example. Partly because I believe that a player being late for training in itself is not necessarily that big of a deal, which admittedly it may be, and partly because again there is a severe lack of context (i.e. was this said tongue in cheek just to joke with Kamara or was this aimed as a dig at Kamara. Did he even mean that he is late, or just that he always arrives at the very last moment?).

Just to make it clear though, I don't mind people forming opinions, and even better if they are based on something better than gut feeling. The part which I was surprised about however is the number of posters being so seemingly convinced that Kamara is a bad influence and so quick to come to the conclusion that he should not be welcomed back, since to my knowledge we have very little reliable information. Also, when I say surprised, I am not actually surprised (since this happens all the time) but more that I have difficulty understanding why many keep doing this. Me being 'surprised' is however not the same as me thinking that those opinions should not be allowed.

Secondly, regarding the quote from Statto, you picked one particular sentence and allocated my subsequent quote to that particular sentence in order for it to fit into your purpose of painting me as being contrary in my opinion. However, if you have another look, I quoted Statto's full post. I did this because I felt that his post was sensible and well reasoned, because he gave alternative explanation. As far as I know, he didn't claim to know the truth, and I never credited his post as being some sort of truth. I also happen to believe that his explanation is more likely, but that is neither here nor there in this discussion.

I have no need to decide for myself whether or not Kamara is a bad influence in the team, and as such I don't have to pick sides in that regard. 

[Mitch]

Nobody is "making up stories", but apart from the penalty incident which happened in full view, we only know part of the facts about the others (whether in mitigation or condemnation).
What we are all doing is then making a judgement based on that partial information. I have no problem with that and respect both points of view. I just happen to prefer to move on and get rid of him. My reasons;
By no means a complete footballer, speed yes, touch no.
The penalty incident was shocking and I witnessed that with my own eyes.
The other incidents add up and when combined with the above suggest to me he has a bad attitude.
He is not an out and out striker so not a Mitro replacement and we have a lot of wide players to choose from.
Shouldn't be too hard to replace if necessary but I think we hav e more pressing needs.

Therefore I say make a clean break.

Nail on the head.

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[toshes mate]

Just a little further into the media referenced above by Mitch, Statto and S-O-T-N (which is TC being asked to name team mate candidates for 'whatever title' in banter), Kamara is again named as best 'mover/dancer', and RS as 'teacher's pet'.  None of it is said with any intention other than it being 'fun and entertaining'.  I don't know when the programme referred to was actually recorded or if it would have been equally relaxed, downbeat and entertaining if it had been recorded at the time all the 'disruptive activity' around the team was being reported in various places, and both of those pieces of knowledge may lead us to very different conclusions about life at FFC.   

[Mitch]

Being late constantly is indicative of not being a good team player. Being a teachers pet, a good dancer or longest in the showers isn't. Doesn't matter how the the info was sourced, but it's out there.

For me it boils down to the fact he had to be removed from Motspur Park by the law and then was sent away on loan to a club he isn't having success at. That's not a person I think we need back. Throw in the fact that a lot of us think he's actually bad at football, and it shouldn't make the consensus that he can leave a surprising one.

If you feel his one attribute of being fast makes all that has gone on and his return worthwhile, then your entitled to that opinion. I just can't see it.

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[Statto]

Being late constantly is indicative of not being a good team player. Being a teachers pet, a good dancer or longest in the showers isn't. Doesn't matter how the the info was sourced, but it's out there.

Hmm, you've conveniently glossed over the other two I mentioned - What about McDonald being a "moaner", ie constant negative influence on the team? What about Johansen being the first to leave training, ie not committed to the cause? Personally I think mild (15 mins) tardiness more forgiveable than either of those.

Although to repeat, personally I don't attach much significance to any of those comments, about McDonald, Johansen or Kamara, given the context.

it shouldn't make the consensus that he can leave a surprising one.

This wouldn't be a 4-page thread if there was a consensus.

[junior white]

Being late constantly is indicative of not being a good team player. Being a teachers pet, a good dancer or longest in the showers isn't. Doesn't matter how the the info was sourced, but it's out there.

Hmm, you've conveniently glossed over the other two I mentioned - What about McDonald being a "moaner", ie constant negative influence on the team? What about Johansen being the first to leave training, ie not committed to the cause? Personally I think mild (15 mins) tardiness more forgiveable than either of those.

Although to repeat, personally I don't attach much significance to any of those comments, about McDonald, Johansen or Kamara, given the context.

it shouldn't make the consensus that he can leave a surprising one.

This wouldn't be a 4-page thread if there was a consensus.

Agree statto, those team mates things are said tongue in cheek. Also when FFC released videos during the championship season and the close season, AK seemed to have a laugh with everyone, surely if a bad team player that wouldn't have happened

[toshes mate]

Being late constantly is indicative of not being a good team player. Being a teachers pet, a good dancer or longest in the showers isn't. Doesn't matter how the the info was sourced, but it's out there.

For me it boils down to the fact he had to be removed from Motspur Park by the law and then was sent away on loan to a club he isn't having success at. That's not a person I think we need back. Throw in the fact that a lot of us think he's actually bad at football, and it shouldn't make the consensus that he can leave a surprising one.

If you feel his one attribute of being fast makes all that has gone on and his return worthwhile, then your entitled to that opinion. I just can't see it.

As I said before, Mitch, you seem to contradict yourself about AK.  No argument from me if FFC sell AK on for football related reasons.  However, and for the record, when I first saw him at FFC I couldn't understand the fuss about him as a player, for some of the reasons you have mentioned, but I give people the benefit of the doubt as far as I possibly can and I have seen with my own eyes some of his rather special skills that appear to me to have gone right over your head.  Fair enough because we all see our football in different ways just as we do life.  But in my opinion selling AK because he has been, according to some, a very naughty boy would be a mistake.

I just hope you never have an experience with true injustice because then you may realise why the benefit of the doubt is such a wonderful gift we are all given.

[Mitch]

What was my contradiction?

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[toshes mate]

What was my contradiction?

Simple.  If you do not believe AK is a good enough footballer for FFC then that is enough of an explanation for why you want him gone.  To then label him 'a bad boy' suggests the former is not enough of an argument for FFC to be rid of him.  You are therefore trying to find added weight for your argument and that is a contradiction.

[Mitch]

I'm laughing at 'bad boy'.

It's not a contradiction, it's just added weight that compounds my thoughts. He's not good at football and he is also a bit of a wally, which just makes it even less worthwhile having him back. Whilst him not being good at football is enough for me, the extra issues are things those on the fence should consider.

Anyway. Enough for the weekend. Enjoy the game today.

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[Twig]

What was my contradiction?

Simple.  If you do not believe AK is a good enough footballer for FFC then that is enough of an explanation for why you want him gone.  To then label him 'a bad boy' suggests the former is not enough of an argument for FFC to be rid of him.  You are therefore trying to find added weight for your argument and that is a contradiction.

That's not a contradiction. A contradiction is when two statements are given in the same argument that oppose each other.  You can accuse Mitch of over egging his case or whatever but it's not a contradiction. Don't mean to be a pedant but wanted to be fair.

[YankeeJim]

As I recall Metro came in with a reputation of being a bit of a non-conformist. I'm all for bringing AK back but with a firm talking to beforehand. He'd tear up the Championship from right wing. With the likely loss of Sess and Mitro, we'll need attackers.

[fulhamben]

Didnt George best used to skip a lot of training due to being smashed, and he carried United

[Logicalman]

he did make a mistake but then it was only under Ranieri this happened. maybe they just clashed. Time will tell if he comes back into the squad under the next manager whoever that may be

Don't know what the problem is with him and tinkerman,but some seem to be forgetting the upheavel he caused with that penalty... And then there was the carry on at the yoga with Mitro,if its a choice
between him and Mitro I know who I'd want at the club...Leave him in Turkey I say.

.. and it wasn't even those two infractions that got him banned from the club, it was his subsequent behavior at Motspur Park and the reason for and arrest that was the final straw. Disrespecting the manager is one thing, falling out with team-mates is another, getting oneself arrested at your employers place of business tends to be that final straw.

Want him back? Nah, no thanks, for all the help he was in our promotion, he believes everything people hype about him, and that's an issue for me, I didn't see others who were in that promotion push acting the same way.

[Woolly Mammoth]

Didnt George best used to skip a lot of training due to being smashed, and he carried United

I think he had his own personal hand picked trainers, who had their own unique training sessions.

[sunburywhite]

Didnt George best used to skip a lot of training due to being smashed, and he carried United

I think his base talent line was a lot higher than AK's maybe

[Statto]

he believes everything people hype about him, and that's an issue for me

It is bit of a leap to assume from anything that's happened that he has an inflated ego (beyond the normal level for any profession footballer) . I can't say I know you're wrong but I dont see much, if any, evidence that you're right, either.

[toshes mate]

I'm laughing at 'bad boy'.

It's not a contradiction, it's just added weight that compounds my thoughts. He's not good at football and he is also a bit of a wally, which just makes it even less worthwhile having him back. Whilst him not being good at football is enough for me, the extra issues are things those on the fence should consider.

Anyway. Enough for the weekend. Enjoy the game today.

I am smiling at your response and I did enjoy the game.

Perhaps I should have expressed my comment as a contradiction in terms which in hindsight was more appropriate.  My apologies for not expressing myself more clearly.

The first term is based upon AK's football performances you have witnessed and carefully assessed for which I give you equal benefit to any other witness.  The second term is based upon hearsay you have neither the means to have witnessed nor the capacity to assess carefully what it means for which I give you the same capacity as anyone else making a judgment based on hearsay.  For it not be a contradiction in terms you would have to have done the same thing with both terms.  That is to say either both terms are hearsay based or both terms are witness based.