Wake up and smell the coffee Parker supporters ...

[Spirit of 2000]

Parker isn't a magath. But more a Lawrie Sanchez.

Parker is more of a Bracewell/Wilkins cross IMO

[Sting of the North]

""Out run Out battled Out performed""

At the end of the day, isn't that ALL on the players?

Short answer: no.

Long answer: of course not.

It's a team effort (or lack thereof) and that includes the manager. Why on earth would it be just one or the other?

[colinwhite]

""Out run Out battled Out performed""

At the end of the day, isn't that ALL on the players?

Short answer: no.

Long answer: of course not.

It's a team effort (or lack thereof) and that includes the manager. Why on earth would it be just one or the other?

totally agree with this . unfortunately most people criticising the management dont. They put it all down to Parker. But if we win or play well its all down to the quality of our players.

[WindyCity]

""Out run Out battled Out performed""

At the end of the day, isn't that ALL on the players?

Short answer: no.

Long answer: of course not.

It's a team effort (or lack thereof) and that includes the manager. Why on earth would it be just one or the other?

Disagree!   Those characteristics....run, battled, performed....those are ALL on the players, IMHO.  The manager isn't out on the pitch in kit. 

If you want to talk about motivation, that's another conversation.  One in which the manger shares participation.  It's also on the players themselves to be motivated.  I'm not saying that team selection, system used, etc can't be debated.  Surely Parker has made mistakes and has consistently had this team playing sideways and backwards.  But some of the games we have all seen this season shows a bunch of highly paid players showing very little courage, grit, guts, work effort, determination and confidence. 

[cottage expat]

I have written my thoughts on Parker elsewhere but I absolutely agree with the OP that Parker is more destructive than constructive in terms of Fulham performances this season. Give Hilda a run as head coach because she will not be any worse.

Fine. As long as we don't have to rely on Parker to make the tea !

[FFC1987]

1/ It doesn't make any difference whether or not  fans want Parker to remain as our manager. It's results and points that influence the owner's  decision. People are entitled to their point of view, even if it differs from yours.

2/Who do you want as  new manager, someone who can to take his  place immediately?

of course it makes a difference if the manager has lost the fans. I don't know one manager who has survived once the fans have turned, not one. And as to manager, I'm willing to try absolutely anyone else at this moment in time.

Yes Ben but you wouldn't be happy if we were 30 points clear. At the moment it's a minority of fans, very vociferous but a minority. Whilst we are where we are in the table Scott is highly unlikely to go, and why would the owners get rid of him.

Hard to take a post seriously that suggests if we were top by any amount of points people would be unhappy. Ridiculous sentiment just showing a disdain for people who disagree with you. It's really not a minority at all based on evidence of face to face supporters I've spoken to and social media interactions as Statto pointed out. No idea what world you're living in with these types of views.

At the end of the day this team isn't fulfilling it's potential despite our league position. That is down to the manager and the tactics he employs. With a team like ours and especially the forward line and midfield at our disposal we should be 10 points clear at the top. Not to mention the boring football we have been playing of late.

for me it's not even about league position, I'd still want Parker gone even if we were 30 points clear at the top due to the dire football we play. I wonder if the same people who are defending Parker now are some of the same people who always used to proclaim that they would never want Warnock here due to his style of football

You would be right if I hadn't quoted a post.

Hard to see how I'm showing disdain for quoting a post, maybe you'd care to say oops or point to someone else's bias rather than indicate incorrectly that my post was inaccurate or spurious

Must of missed that post you quoted, sounded like you were saying it!

Apologies!

[Sting of the North]

""Out run Out battled Out performed""

At the end of the day, isn't that ALL on the players?

Short answer: no.

Long answer: of course not.

It's a team effort (or lack thereof) and that includes the manager. Why on earth would it be just one or the other?

Disagree!   Those characteristics....run, battled, performed....those are ALL on the players, IMHO.  The manager isn't out on the pitch in kit. 

If you want to talk about motivation, that's another conversation.  One in which the manger shares participation.  It's also on the players themselves to be motivated.  I'm not saying that team selection, system used, etc can't be debated.  Surely Parker has made mistakes and has consistently had this team playing sideways and backwards.  But some of the games we have all seen this season shows a bunch of highly paid players showing very little courage, grit, guts, work effort, determination and confidence.

I think we all know that the manager is not on the pitch but I'm not sure I'm following the rest. Do you mean that motivation has no connection to the characteristics of "run, battled, performed"? Because you ascribe the former to be at least partly on the manager, but the latter to be "ALL" on the players. What is motivation then, if it has no impact whatsoever on the players ability to "run, battle and perform"?

[WindyCity]

""Out run Out battled Out performed""

At the end of the day, isn't that ALL on the players?

Short answer: no.

Long answer: of course not.

It's a team effort (or lack thereof) and that includes the manager. Why on earth would it be just one or the other?

Disagree!   Those characteristics....run, battled, performed....those are ALL on the players, IMHO.  The manager isn't out on the pitch in kit. 

If you want to talk about motivation, that's another conversation.  One in which the manger shares participation.  It's also on the players themselves to be motivated.  I'm not saying that team selection, system used, etc can't be debated.  Surely Parker has made mistakes and has consistently had this team playing sideways and backwards.  But some of the games we have all seen this season shows a bunch of highly paid players showing very little courage, grit, guts, work effort, determination and confidence.

I think we all know that the manager is not on the pitch but I'm not sure I'm following the rest. Do you mean that motivation has no connection to the characteristics of "run, battled, performed"? Because you ascribe the former to be at least partly on the manager, but the latter to be "ALL" on the players. What is motivation then, if it has no impact whatsoever on the players ability to "run, battle and perform"?

Well, I would agree that this is and should be a 'team effort', no disagreement there.  I guess when I think of what is actually happening on the pitch (running, battling, performing), that is all on the players.  I don't know about you, but I've seen (and many here also have) any number of lackluster, uninterested performances by this club, on the pitch, both this season and last.  As I said earlier, Parkers' tactics can surely be debated, but when I (we) see a trash show on the pitch, and I think most know when they see it (such as 3 nil loss at home v bottom table club), then I think you have to say this is on the players.  Whatever motivation they and their manager have brought to the table may factor in to that performance, but it's still on the players to execute AND show some heart and determination.  I don't think supporters here would complain at a draw or even a loss if the lads actually showed spirit, courage, bravery and made good plays and maybe just got beat by a better club.  Taking a look at this season in its' entirety, how many matches would/could fit the description of a well played game but, shucks, we just got beat by a better club.  Methinks not many, if any.  While tactics by the manager may factor into a poor result, that doesn't mean the players can't show the work effort.

[grandad]

Given his other commitments, The Jags and the new wrestling venture, I wonder how many games our DOF gets to see to form  an opinion  as to how things are going.
It is very hard to make a good decision  with little data.

TK can watch games on the FFCTV or the next day 90minutes if he can't attend

[Arthur]

While tactics by the manager may factor into a poor result, that doesn't mean the players can't show the work effort.

Which players do you think didn't 'show the work effort' on Saturday?

[Sting of the North]

Well, I would agree that this is and should be a 'team effort', no disagreement there.  I guess when I think of what is actually happening on the pitch (running, battling, performing), that is all on the players.  I don't know about you, but I've seen (and many here also have) any number of lackluster, uninterested performances by this club, on the pitch, both this season and last.  As I said earlier, Parkers' tactics can surely be debated, but when I (we) see a trash show on the pitch, and I think most know when they see it (such as 3 nil loss at home v bottom table club), then I think you have to say this is on the players.  Whatever motivation they and their manager have brought to the table may factor in to that performance, but it's still on the players to execute AND show some heart and determination.  I don't think supporters here would complain at a draw or even a loss if the lads actually showed spirit, courage, bravery and made good plays and maybe just got beat by a better club.  Taking a look at this season in its' entirety, how many matches would/could fit the description of a well played game but, shucks, we just got beat by a better club.  Methinks not many, if any.  While tactics by the manager may factor into a poor result, that doesn't mean the players can't show the work effort.

Thank you for taking the time to expand on your thinking. I do believe however that we will just have to agree to disagree on the way we view things. I don't believe performances, even when just broken down to extremely unspecific basics such as 'battling', by the players on the pitch happen in complete isolation without any impact whatsoever from the manager. Just as I don't believe a manager should be solely blamed for said players not being able to compete to an acceptable level (because there are quite a few who seem to stray in the direction of that line of thought as well).

If one were to believe that many players are seemingly under performing or not putting in a proper shift for an extended period of time, then maybe the solution is not as simple as saying that they are not trying. And even if they were to be found not trying, then what is the cause of that? Because  most players have not gotten this far by being content with losing and being mediocre.

Sorry for banging the same drum repeatedly, but I just have a really hard time with simple answers to complex question. The world is not black and/or white. It is various degrees of grey, almost all the time in almost every aspect of life. I believe it limits the potential range of answers, and therefore may hide the path to the potentially best solutions, if the need to determine an absolute cause for a specific perceived problem takes the overhand instead of constantly questioning if what we perceive is actually correct to begin with.
   
In my opinion, of course.

[WindyCity]

While tactics by the manager may factor into a poor result, that doesn't mean the players can't show the work effort.

Which players do you think didn't 'show the work effort' on Saturday?

Uhhhh, probably most of the whole team, actually.  Based on viewing first half stream (no stream for 2nd half) and commentary from members in this forum, it seems as though this was a complete team breakdown.  At home, with promotion on the line, against a lowly squad, what more can be said?  I guess, from others' comments, a couple of the latecomers in the match put in a decent shift, but, on the whole, pretty ugly outing.

[SuffolkWhite]

I was at the game and I'm not sure all the players could be accused of not trying. I have mentioned on another thread that I do question whether they are behind SP, because if you don't believe in the tactics then do you put 100% in?

There is something just not right with the group and I don't know if it's tactical or personnel, yet we are still in with a very good shout of Promotion if we can sought ourselves out! So Fulham isn't it?

[WindyCity]

Thank you for taking the time to expand on your thinking..
Because  most players have not gotten this far by being content with losing and being mediocre.
Sorry for banging the same drum repeatedly, but I just have a really hard time with simple answers to complex question. The world is not black and/or white. It is various degrees of grey, almost all the time in almost every aspect of life.
In my opinion, of course.

""Thank you for taking the time to expand on your thinking.. ""

You're welcome, enjoy the banter.

""Because  most players have not gotten this far by being content with losing and being mediocre.""

Agreed.  Difficult, then, isn't it, to explain many of the lethargic, uncaring, uninterested matches we've seen played out, often against lowly competition, witnessed both this season and last.  Not to mention all the bickering amongst team mates, both on the pitch and in the clubhouse.

""Sorry for banging the same drum repeatedly, but I just have a really hard time with simple answers to complex question. The world is not black and/or white. It is various degrees of grey, almost all the time in almost every aspect of life.""

Apologies not necessary, good sir.  You're right, we likely need to agree to disagree on our various viewpoints.  I'm sorry, but football, or for that matter, most any other major sport, is not rocket science.  I don't view this discussion as all that, as you suggest, 'complex'.  Unless you're an expert tactician with many years of actual playing and/or coaching experience, or an intricate stat geek, I think most fans of sport view the games, their favorite teams, and judge a good performance or not by what they see or by what the result is.  Pretty simple stuff, really.  Watch the match, and you can pick out the good/bad plays/players, etc and not have to involve yourself with deep philosophical interpretation.  I think the world (that is, the football world which we discuss here) is black and/or white.  And I think that is how most fans enjoy (or not) their particular sport viewing/following experience.

""In my opinion, of course.''

Naturally.  As I do as well.  Enjoy the discussion.

[WindyCity]

There is something just not right with the group and I don't know if it's tactical or personnel, yet we are still in with a very good shout of Promotion if we can sought ourselves out! So Fulham isn't it?

True that, promotion still within grasp, in spite of the criticism heaped upon this bunch.  Likewise, FFC only 3 points (at present) ahead of being out of promotion consideration.  Thin ice.

Still hoping FFC can figure it out and go up.  If they don't, could be long time struggle to get that chance again.  COYW!!