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My Match Breakdown - vs Barnsley

Started by Matt10, February 17, 2020, 03:43:54 AM

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Friendsoffulham

A well thought out, and good piece of writing Matt10. Thank you for taking the time and effort to write this, and placing it on the Forum for everyone to read. Based on that, we have pushed it out via the Friends of Fulham blog, which News Now will pick up an circulate. We have also pushed it out on Twitter, for the rest of the Fulham fan base to read.

BarryP

Quote from: SuffolkWhite on February 17, 2020, 11:26:34 AM
Thanks Matt very interesting read.  For me it is Parker to get tactics right and be able to spot what needs changing at the time. But he can't prepare for the Rodak blunders! The 352 formation is possibly the way ahead as I feel Hector has brought more stability to defence, but it also allows more in midfield where I think we get overun in a lot of games. A midfield of 5 out of this lot currently fit, looks very good, Knock, Cav, Cairny, Johansen, Onamah, McD, Arter. Then 1 up front with Mitro BDR or AK. Depends on the game whether your more defensive or attacking.
My thoughts anyways.

0001.jpeg
"Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never--in nothing, great or small, large or petty--never give in, except to convictions of honor and good sense."

Dodger53

Quote from: toshes mate on February 17, 2020, 02:24:45 PM
As part of my torturous steps to recovery programme for no longer being 'A Parker Believer', and having read through Matt10's POV analysis, I decided to watch the full ninety minutes on FFCtv to see what I missed live on Saturday.  I clearly felt, from reading Matt10's peer reviewable paper, the wind and rain must have gotten in my eyes, and, I can positively say, they must have done.  I have to say that if Barnsley had won 7-0 we couldn't have complained on the balance of chances presented.  It was much worse than I first thought and I have to say Matt10 has tried to make the proverbial silk purse out of it.  Sorry Matt10 but we were worse than dire.   This line in particular sticks in my throat - I think the scoreline heavily favors Barnsley, and doesn't give our effort justice - because it is frankly codswallop.

Spot on Toshes mate.


millsy

I was there and also saw what tosh and dodger saw.
No good pretending otherwise, as if you don't face up to your problems, you can't begin to mend them.
A poor display, with no exceptions and no MOM
As someone else said, this is not new. We've not been playing well for along while and both our results and others around us have flattered us and kept us in contention.
It's not too late, luckily and if we start picking the right team, then playing a more progressive game, we could still make it but I wouldn't bank on it.

Southcoastffc

Quote from: Dodger53 on February 17, 2020, 02:48:13 PM
Quote from: toshes mate on February 17, 2020, 02:24:45 PM
As part of my torturous steps to recovery programme for no longer being 'A Parker Believer', and having read through Matt10's POV analysis, I decided to watch the full ninety minutes on FFCtv to see what I missed live on Saturday.  I clearly felt, from reading Matt10's peer reviewable paper, the wind and rain must have gotten in my eyes, and, I can positively say, they must have done.  I have to say that if Barnsley had won 7-0 we couldn't have complained on the balance of chances presented.  It was much worse than I first thought and I have to say Matt10 has tried to make the proverbial silk purse out of it.  Sorry Matt10 but we were worse than dire.   This line in particular sticks in my throat - I think the scoreline heavily favors Barnsley, and doesn't give our effort justice - because it is frankly codswallop.

Spot on Toshes mate.
:plus one:   I thought the first half was dull, dull, dull and in the 2nd half we were so poor that I just laughed.
The world is made up of electrons, protons, neurons, possibly muons and, definitely, morons.

b+w geezer

Beyond the 'patronising' accusation, there's been the  'codswallop' one. As regards Matt's verdict on the scoreline, that's a fair accusation. What isn't codswallop is to analyse in such detail, which is something one can't possibly do at the time (accepting that being there also has advantages over not being).

As well said just above " if you don't face up to your problems, you can't begin to mend them." But in practice facing up to problems in football -- having decided that is really what you intend to do -- involves getting down to details and sorting them out. Roy Hodgson has made a career out of just that, for instance.

Codswallop-speaker or not, Matt says in his report, based on accumulation of detail, that we have problem in Parker's "inability to address the opponent's defensive tactics against us." That is illustrated by lots of incidents recounted from Saturday. (They don't account for why Barnsley could have scored more, but they do tell the story of our scoring difficulties). It is good to have had that story closely illustrated and  would be even  better  to have  it heeded.


filham

I think next Friday I will do all I can to avoid watching Fulham or catching the match result but instead watch out for the Matt 10 summary on this board. In that way I can look forward to a good week-end.

Denver Fulham

Appreciate Matt's work here ... but what sticks out for me is "We actually did decently enough to repeatedly get the ball to our wingers ... who were double-teamed and had no one to pass to because Mitrovic is blanketed centrally and we don't have any midfielders who can run to make themselves available."

That's what I (and others) have been yelling about for six months. It's not that the players aren't ever executing; it's the whole system is tragically flawed and requires moments of individual brilliance to bail it out.

You can't sum up Parker's deficiency any better than that. His system for the players we have is egregiously bad. We've gotten away with this plenty this season, but not on Saturday ... and with nine total goals in our last nine league matches, eight with one goal or fewer, we're getting away with it less and less often.

b+w geezer

Quote from: Denver Fulham on February 17, 2020, 04:42:36 PM
His system for the players we have is egregiously bad. ... and with nine total goals in our last nine league matches, eight with one goal or fewer, we're getting away with it less and less often.
Exactly, and regardless of any downsides to it, the report illustrates why.


colinwhite

Matt thanks for your annalsys and time. I dont agree with every point you make but I dont feel patronised either. I also thought it was a very poor performance and my main criticism of our tactics would be that if we are going to play it long which we did more or less all game (often when unable to play out due to their press) that we didnt focus on winning the second balls.



Burt

Thanks Matt for posting such a detailed analysis.

I for one didn't find your tone patronising or disrespectful. In fact, whilst I don't agree with some of your points, it is one of the most thoughtful and thought-provoking posts on here for a while.

The fact that it wasn't a "heat-of-the-moment" knee-jerk reaction posted right after what was an awful result must have helped :)

I look forward to your next analysis, after we put Derby to the sword on Friday :)

Cheers

Burt

Carborundum

I applaud the detail, work effort and thought that has gone into the opening post.  This Board lives and dies by the quality of thought and prose. 

I like it when people have a different view, it gets me thinking.  The views in the opening post are tactically miles away from what I think about Saturday's game.  They have helped me focus on why that is.  So here goes.

Without doubt the finest display I have ever seen on a day when a strong wind blows from behind a goal was Fulham against Newcastle about six years ago when we ran out 5-2 winners.  Murphy, Zamora  and Dempsey figured it all out such that we were practically unplayable playing into the wind.  Football as a battle of wits, adaptation and imposing will on the other team.  A masterclass.  Well Saturday was the polar opposite.  Fulham players didn't even want to look at each other in the second half. Totally undone.  Barnsley on the other hand were playing very intelligently indeed.


Whitesideup

Thanks Matt - an interesting read.

I don't think I am alone in thinking that two men out wide nearly all the time is easy to defend against. I sometimes think it's as if we are playing with only 10 men. We play a genuine 4-3-3 and Barnsley's 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 not only made them more compact, but gave them better possession than they should have had, and to me they looked the better team, particularly for spells in the first half. Of course our errors gave them not only the lead, but increasing confidence, and overall Barnsley can be pleased with the performance, not just the result. They have definitely improved with the new manager. They remain one of, if not the, favourites to go down, but this will give their supporters some hope, even if not a lot!

Consequently I agree that we created very little in the first half, and this has been a problem for us in several games, Hull being another for example. Having said that, thought we were a bit unlucky at times with the way the ball fell, and we had a couple of good chances, Mitro's shot saved by keeper's feet, and an uncharacteristically poor header from about 6  yards, and Bobby Reid when the keeper closed him down really quickly. If we could have gone to 2-1 the momentum and psychology may have meant we could have got something out of the game. I know ...and if my aunt had balls, she would be my uncle. 

HV71

Good analysis Matt10 and thank you for , as always, taking an analytic approach . I don't agree with all your points but you certainly don't deserve the vitriol you have had to endure  .I agree with Colinwhite that we failed on picking up the second ball when playing it long . Also if you invert the wingers you almost invariably slow down your attack as you have to check back in order to cross or shoot . Not your fault but no tv or video coverage gives you the full view of the action and trust me we were well beaten on Saturday by a team who were thinking rather than just playing

70sPimlico

Quote from: Denver Fulham on February 17, 2020, 04:42:36 PM
Appreciate Matt's work here ... but what sticks out for me is "We actually did decently enough to repeatedly get the ball to our wingers ... who were double-teamed and had no one to pass to because Mitrovic is blanketed centrally and we don't have any midfielders who can run to make themselves available."

That's what I (and others) have been yelling about for six months. It's not that the players aren't ever executing; it's the whole system is tragically flawed and requires moments of individual brilliance to bail it out.

You can't sum up Parker's deficiency any better than that. His system for the players we have is egregiously bad. We've gotten away with this plenty this season, but not on Saturday ... and with nine total goals in our last nine league matches, eight with one goal or fewer, we're getting away with it less and less often.

You know what? you summed up my feelings.

I love Matt's posts and really appreciate the thought and quality.

For me, in simple terms, football is either more about imposing yourself on other teams, stopping the other team do what they want or an equal bit of both.

Man city and Liverpool etc will impose themselves on other teams. If Southampton play Man city, they try and stop Man city first and foremost and then try and take advantage of the few chances they get.

I always assumed there would be a point in the season we would click and at that point the balance of power would be with us. So, being ex-premier, most teams will try and stop us first. And they do. I assumed that for most of these teams, we would just be too good at what we do at around game 15-20.

Watching recent games, it just so obvious that we have just not improved to enough of a level. Whereas, the opposition's ability to stop us has improved enough that they can stop us reasonably easily now and are now spending more time imposing themselves.

Tactically, we just seem really poor.

I take Matt's point that is was not as bad as it seemed on Saturday. But its Monday and it still feels an awful game. Huddersfield at home was pretty bad but we just managed to score with every shot we got on target but spent the rest of the game completely overrun by Huddersfield.

Its not got better after 33 games, I can't see it starting now. Its a roll of the dice as far as Parker goes. He'll have to change something but coaches that constantly talk about rolling ya sleeves up and showing fight always worry me.


YankeeJim

Matt, great read. Thanks for putting in the work.

As a side note, what did you ever do to Statto, he seems to lie in wait for any comments you make. Perhaps he should take off that hair shirt and respond thoughtfully instead of with imagined slights.
Its not that I could and others couldn't.
Its that I did and others didn't.

Statto

#36
Quote from: YankeeJim on February 17, 2020, 09:07:14 PM
Matt, great read. Thanks for putting in the work.

As a side note, what did you ever do to Statto, he seems to lie in wait for any comments you make. Perhaps he should take off that hair shirt and respond thoughtfully instead of with imagined slights.

The OP is patronising and disrespectful towards those that disagree with him. Those words, patronising and disrespectful, have objective meanings and it's a fact, not my opinion or an "imagined slight", that his comments frequently fall within those meanings. If you (and others) don't feel disrespected and patronised, that's just because you're not one of those the comments are directed towards, ie you're not someone who disagrees with Matt10, which of course is your prerogative. But it doesn't mean the comments aren't patronising and disrespectful to another (probably larger) segment of the forum.

FFC1987

Quote from: YankeeJim on February 17, 2020, 09:07:14 PM
Matt, great read. Thanks for putting in the work.

As a side note, what did you ever do to Statto, he seems to lie in wait for any comments you make. Perhaps he should take off that hair shirt and respond thoughtfully instead of with imagined slights.

Oh come on, you must see some of the condescension in the OP post?


Spirit of 2000

#38
Quote from: toshes mate on February 17, 2020, 02:24:45 PM
As part of my torturous steps to recovery programme for no longer being 'A Parker Believer', and having read through Matt10's POV analysis, I decided to watch the full ninety minutes on FFCtv to see what I missed live on Saturday.  I clearly felt, from reading Matt10's peer reviewable paper, the wind and rain must have gotten in my eyes, and, I can positively say, they must have done.  I have to say that if Barnsley had won 7-0 we couldn't have complained on the balance of chances presented.  It was much worse than I first thought and I have to say Matt10 has tried to make the proverbial silk purse out of it.  Sorry Matt10 but we were worse than dire.   This line in particular sticks in my throat - I think the scoreline heavily favors Barnsley, and doesn't give our effort justice - because it is frankly codswallop.

This exactly. Cannot see that despite how anyone dresses it up that the performance was anything but dire. Barnsley thoroughly deservedly won easily. They are also the poorest side in the division but whos manager got his side to play the conditions a lot more intelligently than Parker did. Parker should not be doing his 'L' plate, "how to manage a football team " course here with a genuinely talented multi million pound squad. He should be doing it at Barnet or Orient. Also as detailed as Matts analysis is, there's a big element of ifs and buts. If my aunty had balls she would be my uncle and on the strength of this game it doesn't compute as much of the dialogue is extremely selective in its content.

hovewhite

A Quincy breakdown of a game,silotions send to scotty on a postcard please!!