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Next season Fulham Premier League

Started by FulhamStu, May 22, 2020, 08:40:23 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

FulhamStu

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on May 24, 2020, 11:34:30 AM
Keep Scott Parker, the Khans appointed him, and so far apart from Scott they have sacked every manager they have appointed, which tells you more about them than the managers they appointed. Too many in a short space of time.
We need stability which is something I hope the owner has become to realise.
Most Managers are aware that they will probably end up getting the sack as they know it comes with that kind of job.
Slavisa being sacked was a huge error of judgement, with or without hindsight, and hiring and firing managers far too quickly due to impatience, stupidity and lack of foresight can become a very bad habit and cause for regret in the long term.
Only one team can win a League, only one team can win a cup.
All managers need time, which is something these days that intolerant owners and supporters conveniently forget in their natural desire for success.
But vision, foresight, responsibility and a great deal of patience is required from owners and fans alike in the majority of cases.
Jumping out of the frying pan into the fire is not advisable.
It's good to have dreams and aspirations as long as they are not fantasies.



1. You said it, pretty much every manager eventually gets sacked, Fulham's ownership is no different to all other clubs. 

2. Many fans have been very critical of Slav being sacked, the fact is, the club repeatedly tried to get Slav to sign a new contract which he refused to do.  Maybe if he had signed a new contract he would still be in charge.  One last point, whilst his football was a joy to watch in the Championship, it was very naive to try to play that type of possession football against much better teams.  Yes, this was how we played and it had worked, but to try and out pass Man City was crazy to witness and I was there !

The Rational Fan

#21
Quote from: FulhamStu on May 25, 2020, 07:19:30 AM
Many fans have been very critical of Slav being sacked, the fact is, the club repeatedly tried to get Slav to sign a new contract which he refused to do.  Maybe if he had signed a new contract he would still be in charge.  One last point, whilst his football was a joy to watch in the Championship, it was very naive to try to play that type of possession football against much better teams.  Yes, this was how we played and it had worked, but to try and out pass Man City was crazy to witness and I was there !

In the last 755 minutes of Slavisa managing Fulham, we scored 4 goals (0.47 goals per 90 mins) and conceded 24 goals (2.86 goals per 90 mins), that time included conceding goals against Watford, Bournemouth, Brighton, Cardiff, and Huddersfield. I cannot see Slavisa winning in the EPL with his type of possession football, and once we were changed to counter-attacking football it made sense to bring in an expert in that style like Raneri.

Besides Raneri went close to turning us around, we looked close to keeping clean sheets until Mawson got injured. If we got clean sheets against Leicester, Wolves, and Burnley plus avoided injury to Mawson, then we would have gone in winter deadline day with 24 points, Mawson and the Khans may have added Cahill, Drinkwater, Moses, and Babel. An XI - Rico; Moses, Chambers, Mawson, MLM, Bryan; Drinkwater, Anguissa; Cairney, Mitro, and Babel may have got the remaining 13 points required (especially remembering we actually got 9 points in the games that occurred).

Although, after the deadline day passed with both a huge points gap and very little additional players, Raneri was completely useless as a coach. My guess is he gave up after the game against Crystal Palace just after deadline day, as he had run out of ideas. Fulham needs to stop looking back and become a team that is always ready to get promoted when it get relegated again from the Premier League.

@jolslover

Quote from: The Rational Fan on May 25, 2020, 05:18:11 AM
Summary of Current Signings for Next Season
Homegrown (9): Rodak, Betts, Christie, Bryan, Hector, Mawson, Onamah, Cairney, Reid
Overseas (10):  Fabri, Ream, MLM, McDonald, Anguissa, Seri, Johansen, Kamara, Mitro and Cav

Planned Improvements
Planned releases to freshen up the squad Ream, McDonald and Johnson
Planned acquisition of existing players including Kongolo, Odoi, Arter and Knockaert (~£30m).
Planned acquisition of new players at RB, LB, DM, RW and Backup-CF, which should cost around £70m.
Any player that the coach thinks is not up for fight is traded  "like for like" at approximately the value sold at.
Loan players used on deadline day to cover any players not performing in pre-season or right player not available.

Final Squad
First XI: Rodak; New RB, New LB, Hector, Kongolo; New DM, Anguissa, Cairney; New RW, Mitro and Cav
Second XI: Betts; Christie, Bryan, Mawson, MLM; Arter, Onamah, Seri; Knockaert, Backup-CF and Reid
Thrid XI: Fabri, S.Sess, Odoi, Kamara and Stanfield

That starting 11 is a very good base. I think with the right additions we could become a mid table side.
STH H3


Woolly Mammoth

Quote from: FulhamStu on May 25, 2020, 07:19:30 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on May 24, 2020, 11:34:30 AM
Keep Scott Parker, the Khans appointed him, and so far apart from Scott they have sacked every manager they have appointed, which tells you more about them than the managers they appointed. Too many in a short space of time.
We need stability which is something I hope the owner has become to realise.
Most Managers are aware that they will probably end up getting the sack as they know it comes with that kind of job.
Slavisa being sacked was a huge error of judgement, with or without hindsight, and hiring and firing managers far too quickly due to impatience, stupidity and lack of foresight can become a very bad habit and cause for regret in the long term.
Only one team can win a League, only one team can win a cup.
All managers need time, which is something these days that intolerant owners and supporters conveniently forget in their natural desire for success.
But vision, foresight, responsibility and a great deal of patience is required from owners and fans alike in the majority of cases.
Jumping out of the frying pan into the fire is not advisable.
It's good to have dreams and aspirations as long as they are not fantasies.



1. You said it, pretty much every manager eventually gets sacked, Fulham's ownership is no different to all other clubs. 

2. Many fans have been very critical of Slav being sacked, the fact is, the club repeatedly tried to get Slav to sign a new contract which he refused to do.  Maybe if he had signed a new contract he would still be in charge.  One last point, whilst his football was a joy to watch in the Championship, it was very naive to try to play that type of possession football against much better teams.  Yes, this was how we played and it had worked, but to try and out pass Man City was crazy to witness and I was there !

Of course you are right, I cannot disagree on your points you have made, however, there was an uneasy relationship between Slavisa and Khan Junior, a professional listening to an amateur would cheese off anyone I would imagine.
Perhaps it  spilled over from TKs best mate the arrogant loose cannon CK who eventually fell on his own sword.
With TK a clash of personalities that Slavisa felt he could never really win as it was the owners son, and naturally thought TK was two bob at his job, so was not prepared to commit himself. It's all politics and different personalities, and a clash between professionals and Amateurs, and at the end of the day the wrong bloke got the sack, but that's nepotism for you, and nobody really won because of it.   
Its not the man in the fight, it's the fight in the man.  🐘

Never forget your Roots.

The Rational Fan

#24
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on May 25, 2020, 11:03:27 AM
A professional listening to an amateur would cheese off anyone I would imagine.

Most organizations have a head professional that reports to an amateur, board of amateurs, shareholders and/or public.

Most Football clubs have someone controlling the purse strings that is not a professional footballer or coach.
Most Countries are executively headed by a Prime Minister that is an amateur in both Health and Education.
Most Drug Companies are headed by someone that knows more about finance than pharamaticals.
And, while most Banks are headed by Bankers, the CEO generally report to shareholders that are amateurs.

Nearly every football club is owned by someone that has been financially successful in business and that business is rarely football.
If Slavisa wants to report to a professional rather than an amateur, then he needs to be second in charge which doesn't suit him either.

What Slavisa wanted was to be the head professional and no amateur gets in the way of what he wants to do.
The hard truth is what he wants doesn't exist anywhere and even something close to what he wanted (e.g MAF) is extremely rare.

RaySmith

There seemed a combination of factors against Slav in the Prem.
We weren't too bad at first, looked promising, except  we hardly got any points, and a downward spiral began, with seeming loss of confidence amongst manager and players.

Slave never seemed to have  confidence in the players at his disposal - with several expensive acquisitions, he chose to play them all together right from the season's start, so we had a team  stating it's first Prem game, where the players had hardly even met.

Our style which had been so successful i the Championship, was found lacking in thePrem, when we shipped far too many goals with our porous defence.

Slav was brave in  continuing with his attacking style, even away at City, and maybe the wrong players were brought in -  they were certainly unsuccessful at Fulham, but a more cautious, defensive minded approach is maybe more suitable for a team like Fulham embarking on a Prem campaign.
But we failed to bring i the necessary defenders and defensive minded midfielders.

We are certainly looking far more sound defensively with Hector, and now  hopefully Kongolo, at the back, with Rodak in goal, and this could augur well for Scott Parker, who is a more  pragmatic, defensive minded manager, if we manage to go up this season.


The Rational Fan

Quote from: @jolslover on May 25, 2020, 10:35:40 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on May 25, 2020, 05:18:11 AM
Summary of Current Signings for Next Season
Homegrown (9): Rodak, Betts, Christie, Bryan, Hector, Mawson, Onamah, Cairney, Reid
Overseas (10):  Fabri, Ream, MLM, McDonald, Anguissa, Seri, Johansen, Kamara, Mitro and Cav

Planned Improvements
Planned releases to freshen up the squad Ream, McDonald and Johnson
Planned acquisition of existing players including Kongolo, Odoi, Arter and Knockaert (~£30m).
Planned acquisition of new players at RB, LB, DM, RW and Backup-CF, which should cost around £70m.
Any player that the coach thinks is not up for fight is traded  "like for like" at approximately the value sold at.
Loan players used on deadline day to cover any players not performing in pre-season or right player not available.

Final Squad
First XI: Rodak; New RB, New LB, Hector, Kongolo; New DM, Anguissa, Cairney; New RW, Mitro and Cav
Second XI: Betts; Christie, Bryan, Mawson, MLM; Arter, Onamah, Seri; Knockaert, Backup-CF and Reid
Thrid XI: Fabri, S.Sess, Odoi, Kamara and Stanfield

That starting 11 is a very good base. I think with the right additions we could become a mid table side.

At best that lineup is comparable to Newcastle which normally get around 1.2 points per game, but I think it will take a season before a new squad like that can get 1.2 points per game. With a new team some players won't adjust to the Premier League and some combinations of players won't work.

Realistically with £100m spent on new players, we should be able to build a squad that gets 0.9 points per game the first half of the season and 1.1 points per game second half of the season. Hopefully, 38 points is enough and 17th position gained, but if it isn't we have the core of a squad that can get promoted again.

The Rational Fan

Quote from: Statto on May 22, 2020, 01:38:40 PM

Although with that said, I think it will also depend on the covid-19 situation. I don't buy all this "the world has changed forever" bo11ocks but nonetheless, I can't see any clubs spending much in August if there remains any uncertainty as to whether/when next season will start

I think covid-19 will change the game dramatically for a while, as it will reduce crowds in the Championship. Making teams more reliant on TV money and owner investment, this will mean teams getting promoted will find it harder to stay up and easier to bounce up after a relegation. I think promoted teams will be investing more in players that not only keep them up, but also can win the championship if relegated. Covid-19 means promoted teams may look for more yo-yo players.

Jims Dentist

Quote from: The Rational Fan on May 26, 2020, 09:28:11 AM
Quote from: Statto on May 22, 2020, 01:38:40 PM

Although with that said, I think it will also depend on the covid-19 situation. I don't buy all this "the world has changed forever" bo11ocks but nonetheless, I can't see any clubs spending much in August if there remains any uncertainty as to whether/when next season will start

I think covid-19 will change the game dramatically for a while, as it will reduce crowds in the Championship. Making teams more reliant on TV money and owner investment, this will mean teams getting promoted will find it harder to stay up and easier to bounce up after a relegation. I think promoted teams will be investing more in players that not only keep them up, but also can win the championship if relegated. Covid-19 means promoted teams may look for more yo-yo players.
Fair point RF.
However, go up or not I wouldn't look to retain Arter or Knocky.
Their transfer fees and wages would be too high for The Championship and they have both previously not been good enough to nail down a place in a (lower table) Premier Club.


The Rational Fan

#29
Quote from: Jims Dentist on May 26, 2020, 11:22:28 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on May 26, 2020, 09:28:11 AM
Quote from: Statto on May 22, 2020, 01:38:40 PM

Although with that said, I think it will also depend on the covid-19 situation. I don't buy all this "the world has changed forever" bo11ocks but nonetheless, I can't see any clubs spending much in August if there remains any uncertainty as to whether/when next season will start

I think covid-19 will change the game dramatically for a while, as it will reduce crowds in the Championship. Making teams more reliant on TV money and owner investment, this will mean teams getting promoted will find it harder to stay up and easier to bounce up after a relegation. I think promoted teams will be investing more in players that not only keep them up, but also can win the championship if relegated. Covid-19 means promoted teams may look for more yo-yo players.
Fair point RF. However, go up or not I wouldn't look to retain Arter or Knocky.
Their transfer fees and wages would be too high for The Championship and they have both previously not been good enough to nail down a place in a (lower table) Premier Club.

The ideal yo-yo player to sign should be still at his peak in two seasons' time that probably means being between 24 and 29 years old for the 2021/22 season. The contracts for Odoi, Ream, McDonald, Arter, Kebano, and Knockaert all run out before the 2021/22 season and we may need to refresh the squad with younger squad players by then.