The impact of British Airways on us, Brentford and QPR

[Riversider]

For those of you that are unaware,  British Airways recently announced that they are going to make 12,000 workers redundant,  they've now announced that they are going to make 42,000 redundant,  but rehire 30,000 on reduced terms, possibly between 40 and 60% pay cut for most and less annual leave,
Though the figures are huge, the true figures are much higher when you factor in  partners and children,
And this is just one company, there will be many, many more once furlough comes to an end, I had bought 3 tickets for the Brentford game in The Stevenage Road stand, cost me a shade under £150 , can't see that pricing policy being able to continue in the brave new world that lies ahead,
Hate to think what will happen to Crawley Town with Gatwick being turned into a ghost town,
So I wonder what people think will be the impact on West London football with the loss of so many jobs at Heathrow ?
Think it will be many a long year before we see a 30,000 full house at Craven Cottage.

[Statto]

In 2021 a lot of people will have about 50 days annual leave including what they've carried over from this year, along with a lot of saved money burning a hole in their pocket. Personally I aim to take about 6-8 holidays, to make up for those I've missed in 2020. The airlines are going to really struggle for liquidity over the coming months but when this ends, it will be like all their Christmases coming at once. Given most of our fan base are white collared and middle class, the only way I can see us struggling with below normal attendances post-Covid is if all our fans are poncing around Lake Como on their holidays.

[Riversider]

In 2021 a lot of people will have about 50 days annual leave including what they've carried over from this year, along with a lot of saved money burning a hole in their pocket. Personally I aim to take about 6-8 holidays, to make up for those I've missed in 2020. The airlines are going to really struggle for liquidity over the coming months but when this ends, it will be like all their Christmases coming at once. Given most of our fan base are white collared and middle class, the only way I can see us struggling with below normal attendances post-Covid is if all our fans are poncing around Lake Como on their holidays.

Not sure you could have missed the point any more if you had tried.

[Andy S]

Dream on statto

[Logicalman]

I agree totally with the OP, the brave new world we all face, in many aspects of life, will be different, however much we might wish to hanker after how it was in 2019, and with a large section of the private industry having to rebuild itself, the BA model of reduced wages might well be the norm for those in the manual workers or office staffing professions, which, I would suggest, includes a lot of those ST holders, and that will include multiple sports, not just footie.

I'm not sure, given the changes in lifestyle that the COVID situation forced upon the population, that footie will recover in the short term. It'll be OK for the bigger teams, they can sell their ST quota five times over, but can a club like ours do the same? even in a good year? I would hate to proffer that perhaps this 'reset' of sorts might prove beneficial for the beautiful game in the long run, as the near term is what we face now, only time will tell I guess. As the OP stated, teams like Crawley will feel the blunt force of this first, and that is the foundations of the professional game we are talking about here.

[Southcoastffc]

Re BA don't believe all you read in the papers and on Facebook. FWIW, I think that there's a lot of truth in what Statto says.  And the BA rumours are being widely touted by the cabin crew union. Wait and see is my mantra in this context.

[SuffolkWhite]

All clubs will be affected and some clubs will go to the wall like other businesses. All businesses will have to look how they can survive and football is no different.

Only thing I hope is that players wages come down to a sensible level so clubs survive and then run within proper finance guide rather than selling grounds to their owners to get round the rules.

I wasn't going to have a season ticket next season anyway but a Membership, but I still have to get to Fulham from Ipswich and you won't catch me on public transport until 2021 at the earliest.

[Statto]

Re BA don't believe all you read in the papers and on Facebook. FWIW, I think that there's a lot of truth in what Statto says.  And the BA rumours are being widely touted by the cabin crew union. Wait and see is my mantra in this context.

Yep and they want a bailout by the state so will paint the most dramatic picture they can.
BA and other airlines in the same position are claiming it will be five years before people want to travel again.
Meanwhile Merkel wants the borders open in a fortnight and the quarantines for incoming passengers to most countries will fall away in a month.
Don't get me wrong, I think it will take a while for tourism to recover, maybe into early next year, but not five bloody years.

[Riversider]

Re BA don't believe all you read in the papers and on Facebook. FWIW, I think that there's a lot of truth in what Statto says.  And the BA rumours are being widely touted by the cabin crew union. Wait and see is my mantra in this context.

Yep and they want a bailout by the state so will paint the most dramatic picture they can.
BA and other airlines in the same position are claiming it will be five years before people want to travel again.
Meanwhile Merkel wants the borders open in a fortnight and the quarantines for incoming passengers to most countries will fall away in a month.
Don't get me wrong, I think it will take a while for tourism to recover, maybe into early next year, but not five bloody years.

Blimey you are on a roll today, yet again you are wide of the mark, B.A don't want a government bailout, as this would lead to Virgin getting one, which they don't want to happen,
B.A want increased future profits due to a lower cost base.

[Statto]

Re BA don't believe all you read in the papers and on Facebook. FWIW, I think that there's a lot of truth in what Statto says.  And the BA rumours are being widely touted by the cabin crew union. Wait and see is my mantra in this context.

Yep and they want a bailout by the state so will paint the most dramatic picture they can.
BA and other airlines in the same position are claiming it will be five years before people want to travel again.
Meanwhile Merkel wants the borders open in a fortnight and the quarantines for incoming passengers to most countries will fall away in a month.
Don't get me wrong, I think it will take a while for tourism to recover, maybe into early next year, but not five bloody years.

Blimey you are on a roll today, yet again you are wide of the mark, B.A don't want a government bailout, as this would lead to Virgin getting one, which they don't want to happen,
B.A want increased future profits due to a lower cost base.

Now who's missing the point?
The sector in general wants state aid so will exaggerate the long-term impact of the crisis - that's my point
BA may be an exception for reasons specific to them but they still have an agenda, they want to justify cost-cutting measures

Anyway as I always say to you Riversider, there's a limit to how much I want to argue with you when it's more fun just to leave you wallowing in your own miserable projections, thinking Fulham are going to be relegated, the Cottage will be empty none of us will go on holiday until 2030 (if we're still alive)

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[Baszab]

BA need to get rid of their totally outdated bloated contracts - this is a golden opportunity to switch thousands on to zero hours

[Southcoastffc]

Re BA don't believe all you read in the papers and on Facebook. FWIW, I think that there's a lot of truth in what Statto says.  And the BA rumours are being widely touted by the cabin crew union. Wait and see is my mantra in this context.

Yep and they want a bailout by the state so will paint the most dramatic picture they can.
BA and other airlines in the same position are claiming it will be five years before people want to travel again.
Meanwhile Merkel wants the borders open in a fortnight and the quarantines for incoming passengers to most countries will fall away in a month.
Don't get me wrong, I think it will take a while for tourism to recover, maybe into early next year, but not five bloody years.

Blimey you are on a roll today, yet again you are wide of the mark, B.A don't want a government bailout, as this would lead to Virgin getting one, which they don't want to happen,
B.A want increased future profits due to a lower cost base.

Not wishing to intrude on argument between others, this might bring some light:   https://www.headforpoints.com/2020/05/07/has-british-airways-taken-a-government-bailout/

[Fulham 442]

I have a friend who works for BA on their long haul flights.  It's not 12,000 though SCFFC, it is 43,000, the entire workforce.  People can then apply for their old jobs back but they are only taking on 31,000 at hugely reduced salaries, in my friend's case a 55% reduction.  Win win for the airline if experienced crew want to do so, if not they will no doubt look to employ people with no experience on even lower wages. 

[Burt]

On a slight tangent, the prospect of going to a crowded airport to sit on a crowded plane does not appeal. At least until there is an effective vaccine in place.

[Plodder]

If the BA proposals are as reported, they are shameful, and I hope the ensuing publicity prompts a change of mind.  One of my friends has over 30 years with BA as a stewardess - divorced with three children, only one of whom is over 18 and is at college, so money is short for her, and she is in tears about what is happening.  BA has a huge cash reserve (£9 billion is the figure quoted to me) and I am told that BA reported a profit of over £2 billion for 2019/20.  If they want to hire new staff on reduced terms, that is one thing (at least the new joiners know the terms on which they are joining), but to treat long serving staff in this way is shameful.  They aren't a drain on the company, they are the engine driving the profits.

[Oakeshott]

"People can then apply for their old jobs back"

I'm not sure that the company can legally act as is being described.

For sure, people can be made redundant and sadly thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, across the UK will be as a result of the virus. But I don't think someone can be made redundant unless the job ceases to exist.   

[Fulham 442]

"People can then apply for their old jobs back"

I'm not sure that the company can legally act as is being described.

For sure, people can be made redundant and sadly thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, across the UK will be as a result of the virus. But I don't think someone can be made redundant unless the job ceases to exist.   

Sadly they can. They can just tweak the job title/description. 

[wiresandmore]

Funny, on the big clubs I wonder if the impact could equally be profound, at least in terms of ticket sales etc. A huge amount of seats at the bigger clubs in the prem are taken by overseas day-trippers/tourists and that source of income will vanish for quite some time. Local clubs with strong regional fan bases may do much better.

I do  think the economic shock will be significant for some time; a fortunate few will bank cash but many will be very careful for quite a while, 2+ years I expect, until they get a better grasp on their future prospects.

[Holders]

"People can then apply for their old jobs back"

I'm not sure that the company can legally act as is being described.

For sure, people can be made redundant and sadly thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, across the UK will be as a result of the virus. But I don't think someone can be made redundant unless the job ceases to exist.   

"Reduction in the need for work of a particular kind" also, over-riding commercial considerations. "Consultation" mandatory. I'm a bit out of date but there also has to be a break in service, as I recall.

[Southcoastffc]

Three points.
The 43k BA employees excludes pilots, but includes cabin crew (about 17k).


Some older (in terms of length of service), so called legacy cabin crew earn between £70-90k p.a. and BA can get new cabin crew for comfortably under £20k.   I'm not saying it's right but if you were BAs financial controller, what would you do?

The cabin crew (don't know about other staff) union is Unite, who I understand (so may be wrong) are declining to engage in discussion with BA but have circulated members a truly (IMO) amateurish, snide and unhelpful template letter for members to send to Alex Cruz, BA's CEO.