Serbia vs England tonight

[iansthailand]

I wasn't trying to say Serbia is a racist country (I don't know enough about the area) but with UEFA closing part of the ground you will be under stricter scrutiny than usual. The UK has had its crowd problems and racism, as you say, is still very much part of our society today.

That was related to various incidents in the past few games, none of which were related to racism.

OK thanks for putting me right. Tough night for you but you did point out this Serbian team  were way below previous teams.

[iansthailand]

Our coach just put all the blame on our players. LOL

He said that this result was always going to happen as your players are that much better than ours and that no other result was possible! I guess Andorra has much better players than us, since they managed to get better results 2 times already!

When a coach openly blames his players publicly, it's always a sign that he's on his way out!

I'll believe when I see the back of him!

You won't be sending him a Christmas Card this year then!!!

[JimmyConway]

Thought Lukic was non existent last night in the game against England. You can see they are very one dimensional and regimental in their setup. They need to be careful as they could end up being an also ran when qualifying for future tournaments.
If you like your stats then Lukic is a dream player if you want to see him play forward thinking you might have to wait sometime?
His a Fulham player and always difficult criticising one of your own but I keep thinking he'll let his hair down soon take the handbrake off and show something but I am beginning to think it's not in his locker. He will get a living playing you to me football!
Famous last words he'll score a screamer Saturday against Leeds or the winner V Brentford!

[btffc]

Thought Lukic was non existent last night in the game against England. You can see they are very one dimensional and regimental in their setup. They need to be careful as they could end up being an also ran when qualifying for future tournaments.
If you like your stats then Lukic is a dream player if you want to see him play forward thinking you might have to wait sometime?
His a Fulham player and always difficult criticising one of your own but I keep thinking he'll let his hair down soon take the handbrake off and show something but I am beginning to think it's not in his locker. He will get a living playing you to me football!
Famous last words he'll score a screamer Saturday against Leeds or the winner V Brentford!

He's 29. At this point he is what he is and is not going to evolve much as a player.

[bencher]

Did Mitrovic do anything of note in his 20 min cameo?

Great nostalgia moment when Mitro questioned the ref about the sending off.

If England weren't already winning 3-0 at the point I half-expected Mitro to grab the ref.

[bog]

Haaland has hit five for Norway tonight...

Norway with only a slight lead on Moldova tonight..

10-1 so far.

The win was in doubt until 89 minutes from the end. 

[Woolly Mammoth]

Did Mitrovic do anything of note in his 20 min cameo?

Yes he asked the referee if he could lend him 5 quid until his next payday. 💷

[jarv]

I watched some of it but gave up before half time. Sooooo boring!   I feel sad that they invade our domestic schedule for this rubbish. Tippy tappy, sideways, backwards. Awful football. So predicable and nobody demonstrates the excitement of dribbling now. OK, defenders are much better now but there must be some tactic to counter it.  Perhaps a bonus point for 3 or more goals, even if it ends up 4-3 loss.

[SerbianLad]

to suggest that means there isn't any racism in Serbia is a bit of a ridiculous take, at least using that study

Where have I suggested that? I only said that racism isn't prevalent in Serbia. Also, I used that study as an example, I can give you more examples of studies that show what I tried to point out. Or I can even give you examples in football, like e.g. Red Star's first foreign captain being black or the many black and asian players that play and have played for our clubs and were absolutely adored by our fans. Our assistant coach in the national team, up until recently, was Japanese too and he was a fan favourite.

I'm sure you know, for countries in the Balkans the racism you find is often against people with a similar skin color.

Racism, by definition(the original one at least), is , as the name states, prejudice or discrimination based on race.

Chauvinism is prejudice/discrimination based on nationality and the belief that one nation is superior to other.

Nationalism is a positive thing like patriotism, with nationalism being the love for your nation and patriotism being the love for your country.

These terms are pretty clear and the clues are in the names. Why some people decided to add aditional meaning to those words, I'll never understand. If you find old dictionaries from any country, you'll see that these were the original meanings.

As for the chauvinism between Balkan countries, it does exist, but it is reserved to extremists and politicians. Most people don't care about that at all. In the Vojvodina region in the north of Serbia, there's a big Croatian minority (and Hungarian, Slovak,etc) and they live in absolute peace and harmony. People from Serbia often cheer for Croatian sportspeople and vice versa. Croatian musicians and bands are popular in Serbia and Serbian musicians and bands are popular in Croatia. The whole "hate" thing is blown out of proportions.

but I do believe that is what the comment you were responding to was pointing out generally

Considering the multiple questions made by English journalists at the Tuchel-Kane press conference that were very clearly aimed at the anti-black racism, I'm pretty sure that the comment were in regards to the said type of discrimination.

I find it disturbing to suggest that only people from the region can speak on this issue. I couldn't disagree more with that sentiment. There should be open dialogue on these topics. If someone is clearly misinformed, showing an unwillingness to learn, or is purposefully being harmful, then censorship may be appropriate, but otherwise I am actually more confused by your demand.

From my experience, people from UK are generally very misinformed and only now one side of the story that is always regurgitated by UK media. And I am a firm believer that only people from Kosovo and Metohija (or Gaza or Donbass or whatever conflict area you want to use as an example) know the full story.

"Kosovo je Srbija!" in a stadium, protest, or nationalist rally, often with hostility, is a jingoist slogan, and that has no place in a football stadium or around the ground.

I'm sorry but why? Why is it clear to everyone that Russia trying to take over Crimea or Donbass, or Catalonia wanting independence or Scotland or numerous other examples is scandalous, but Kosovo being independent is okay? Ukrainian people can chant whatever they want, but our people can't chant something, that, by international law, is true?

I would contend that both of these statements either lack serious context at best or are misleading at worst. I find it unfortunate that such statements are made after directly acknowledging how complex this topic is. I implore you to do more research on the countries that do or don't recognize Kosovo's independence, and you will find that at worst, it is 50/50 (I'm hedging cause I don't even think you could find that), and at best, over 100 countries recognize Kosovo in some way as independent. Regarding the UN, yes, it has defaulted to not recognizing Kosovo, but this has little to do with anything that happens in the region and everything to do with China and Russia being on the Security Council, who for their own reasons, relating to their own circumstances with external self-determination, would veto any move to recognize Kosovo as independent.

Outside of Europe and USA, most of the big countries don't recognise Kosovo as an independent nation. Countries like Brazil, India, Argentina, China,Algeria, DR Kongo, Russia,etc (with some major European countries not recognising them too like Spain or Greece for example). Your point about Security Council is frankly ridiculous. If anything, Russia would have a lot more to gain if they recognised Kosovo. It would create a precedent in international law that would help them in the Russia-Ukraine conflict. And the reasons countries that have recognised Kosovo as independent have for recognising Kosovo as independent (and I will quote you) this has little to do with anything that happens in the region and everything to do with their interests, like for example the huge NATO base, Camp Bondsteel, that we would never have allowed as we want to remain neutral in terms of military alliance.

"Kosovo is the heart of Serbia" or "Kosovo is Serbia" being sung by football ultras as defensible. That type of behavior is what UEFA has punished, and rightfully so in my opinion.

Kosovo is the heart of Serbia is being sung because it's a region that's extremely important for our history and identity. It's a region with by far the most monasteries, most of them medieval. We crowned our kings there, we used it as an important religious center. In fact, Metohija (the full name of that region is Kosovo and Metohija, based on the two plains, Kosovo, and Metohija) means "monastery estate". Kosovo is a Serbian name, meaning the field of the blackbird, and blackbird used to be one of our symbols too.
 

[fulhamfan]

We won't know love all if/until we are in the latter stages of the world cup against a big side in the 2nd half and it's not going well. It's only then if we'll know he's an upgrade on Sir Gareth

[H4usuallysitting]

Regrettably - couldn't get excited about any of it....

[copthornemike]

Thanks for your interesting and informative posts SL, hopefully some of us can meet with you for a pint sometime in the future.
Surprising result in view of England's poor performances against weak teams, like Andorra, & Serbia's strong defensive stats in recent games.
You have out a good prediction there SL

[Lighthouse]

Meanwhile very exciting in The Great British Bake Off. Right up until the signature there was a clear favourite to leave. She had had a disaster. But she kept saying she wasn't going to leave yet. Her signature was probably the best or second best and she did save herself.

[alfie]

I watched some of it but gave up before half time. Sooooo boring!   I feel sad that they invade our domestic schedule for this rubbish. Tippy tappy, sideways, backwards. Awful football. So predicable and nobody demonstrates the excitement of dribbling now. OK, defenders are much better now but there must be some tactic to counter it.  Perhaps a bonus point for 3 or more goals, even if it ends up 4-3 loss.

I didn't find in boring whatsoever.

[bog]

To scruffy old me the most important thing now is that we are back to proper football this weekend.   

I recall when watching England play was a major event. Being told that after struggling to beat a country ranked 174 in the world, they 'have got the job done' I find a tad annoying.


Thank you and good night
     

[Woolly Mammoth]

I watched some of it but gave up before half time. Sooooo boring!   I feel sad that they invade our domestic schedule for this rubbish. Tippy tappy, sideways, backwards. Awful football. So predicable and nobody demonstrates the excitement of dribbling now. OK, defenders are much better now but there must be some tactic to counter it.  Perhaps a bonus point for 3 or more goals, even if it ends up 4-3 loss.

I didn't find in boring whatsoever.

Neither did I, in fact it was a lot more exciting than many Fulham matches.

[Woolly Mammoth]

To scruffy old me the most important thing now is that we are back to proper football this weekend.   

I recall when watching England play was a major event. Being told that after struggling to beat a country ranked 174 in the world, they 'have got the job done' I find a tad annoying.


Thank you and good night
     

Yes it was a good night for England winning 5 0 on Serbias own patch, not many teams are capable of doing that.
I am sure all those England fans that travelled over there will be very happy, and got their monies worth.

[Grassy Noel]

To scruffy old me the most important thing now is that we are back to proper football this weekend.   

I recall when watching England play was a major event. Being told that after struggling to beat a country ranked 174 in the world, they 'have got the job done' I find a tad annoying.




Thank you and good night
     

Yes it was a good night for England winning 5 0 on Serbias own patch, not many teams are capable of doing that.
I am sure all those England fans that travelled over there will be very happy, and got their monies worth.
[/frorquote]

I nearly switched off but managed to see it out. I think that the only reason I stayed watching was through admiration for the Rice/Anderson combo. I did not see any adventurous play or passing just the most inept opposition on the planet.

[White Knight]

To scruffy old me the most important thing now is that we are back to proper football this weekend.   

I recall when watching England play was a major event. Being told that after struggling to beat a country ranked 174 in the world, they 'have got the job done' I find a tad annoying.




Thank you and good night
     

Yes it was a good night for England winning 5 0 on Serbias own patch, not many teams are capable of doing that.
I am sure all those England fans that travelled over there will be very happy, and got their monies worth.
[/frorquote]

I nearly switched off but managed to see it out. I think that the only reason I stayed watching was through admiration for the Rice/Anderson combo. I did not see any adventurous play or passing just the most inept opposition on the planet.

ENGLAND made Serbia look inept and clumsy, due to the fact that we outplayed them and outsmarted them as the scoreline  0 5 reflected. Most of the game you would have thought England were the home team. Bearing in mind we have a lot of exciting youngsters coming through with another making his debut last night. Also with players like Palmer, Saka and a few others to come back into the squad, the best is yet to come.

[Carborundum]

Wasn't the game I expected.  Serbia having a right good go at home?  Not a bit of it and there's the suggestion of something being up in the dressing room.  So England got presented with a low block and, for once, gave a masterclass in how to make chances against it.  Wasn't exactly thrilling - it takes two teams for that - but my goodness it was effective. 

So overall it was a unique enigma rather than exciting.  A 5-0 hammering delivered by my team where, instead of basking in the rare sunshine of a goal-fest, it felt more like the halfway point in a Le Carre novel trying to work out what's really going on.