England, please beat Argentina!! Please!! If I see another Messi advert (and I'm sure I will) I think I'm gonna puke! Messi Messi Messi....just too much of that crap, can't stand it, please knock Argentina out of this competition!
NFR. Sadly. Wish we had players of the quality to make these rosters.
My biggest concern is fitness. Rice has clearly been suffering from burnout after last season, concerns over Jude having taken a hard knock on his shoulder, Saka still not back to his best, questions over right back, Stones hit and miss.
I don't think Argentina have had any major injury issues.
One thing I'd add is why hasn't Mainoo featured at all so far? He's so good at keeping the ball and that's something we've struggled with at times.
We may need him at some stage during this game, same with Ollie Watkins.
If England play to our full potential and they do the same England will win.
Providing there is no intervention from Infantino and his goons.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on July 14, 2026, 10:05:33 AMWe may need him at some stage during this game, same with Ollie Watkins.
If England play to our full potential and they do the same England will win.
Providing there is no intervention from Infantino and his goons.
I can see Argentina playing rough and dirty and not getting booked. They've done that throughout the tournament, whereas England seem to get a yellow for every 50-50 challenge.
The great Tim Vickery gives good extra info on the fixture and what it means (not the usual stuff)...
I had no idea that Wembley wasn't really used for internationals until 1951 (that was only for Home Nation matches), etc...Argentina were the first Non- British team to play at Wembley (in 1951).
https://youtu.be/iFBJKJ1Kz0g?is=CvhQV8r9mw9DDV00
England Vs Argentina 1966 Highlights
https://youtu.be/GoaOgvzY-V4?is=kYNMnPPgCfouohbM
(https://lens.usercontent.google.com/banana?agsi=CmdnbG9iYWw6OjAwMDA1NWNmZWM3MDAyNmQ6MDAwMDAwZWI6MTowOGE5MmYxNWI2ZjM1NDEyOjAwMDA1NWNmZWM3MDAyNmQ6MDAwMDAzNWFmNzIwMzM2ODowMDA2NTZhNjhmYTdhMmRmEAIYASIJaW1hZ2UvcG5n)
It's all on the day 🏴
Almost too close to call... Against us is that I think we have to many players that are not 100% and also a very unsettled back four. Now we chop and change every match... that is why Argentina must start as favourites IMO.
In 1966 the team was very settled and it was only Greaves that gave way from the group stages. That is why they were so much better than now... ad we had a proper world class keeper in those, I am very uneasy about Mr Pickford's abilities.
My disappointment when watching England stems back to Mexico 70 QF's V West Germany, when we threw away a 2 goal lead and lost 2-3!
There's been a few excellent results over the years but every time we get close to actually winning something we fail.
So I will watch tonight but expect the worst to happen.
Pessimistic?
Sure but this is the usual pattern!
I can't help feeling that FIFA will do all they can to get Messi into the final. I could easily see a couple of reds for Argentinian players if things don't go their way.
Good luck Engerland! ::thumb::
Don't know what to think but 40 years I've waited for us to avenge that goal in 86, please let it be tonight
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on July 15, 2026, 05:09:44 PMMy disappointment when watching England stems back to Mexico 70 QF's V West Germany, when we threw away a 2 goal lead and lost 2-3!
There's been a few excellent results over the years but every time we get close to actually winning something we fail.
So I will watch tonight but expect the worst to happen.
Pessimistic?
Sure but this is the usual pattern!
I'm a few world cups behind you but can't help but feel the same 86 was my first WC want to be positive but experience tells me it'll be the same old
Really hope I'm wrong
Fully expect us to win
Anyone got a stream
When are we playing?
I think they'll be a red card in this game...
Still no booking
Quote from: FFC007 on July 15, 2026, 08:14:55 PMI think they'll be a red card in this game...
Constant little kicks and pushes by the dirty South Americans... ref too weak... I hope Messi pulls a hamstring
Quote from: SP on July 15, 2026, 08:32:31 PMStill no booking
2 so far. Simeone will eventually get a red
Ref under instructions to make sure Argentina win
If we score a goal VAR will go back 5 minutes to try and find a foul
Ref has been OK I think, dealt with most of the Argentina shenanigans.
Both Argentina's CBs have yellow cards now.
Get in!
England GOAL!
Anthony Goalden
Yeeeees
Five at the back Southgate Silva crap.
Tuchels fault. Terrible tactics
Too defensive.
Tuchel you absolute melt.
Shocking substitutions.
Sorry but we showed far too much fear after we scored and Tuchel turned into Southgate.
At the end of the day it was gutless.
The changes made no real sense and allowed Argentina to peg us back. Pickford 2 great saves, no chance on either goal, Messi given to much space on the flank both times
We sat back too deep and far too early. Stopped playing forward. It was like Parkerball. Throw more centre backs on. Sad ending but Argentina were the better team.
why take of the goal scorer who was playing well and change him to Konsa, always the same with England, get on front foot, then ease of and make it easy for the opposition. Idiot managers
Totally outplayed since we scored.
You have to admire Messi at 39,can still set up the goals,the second how he got to the byline and whipped it in...The Goat.
Got exactly what we deserved.
Tommy Too Shy-di-Shy.
Hush Hush, Bye -De - Bye.
That was so bad from 56 minutes on, a lot of it down to the Managers tactics. I think Tommy will leave the job one way or the other. Just threw it away.
Argentina are really horrible to play against though, they could have had 5 or 6 yellows in the first half, then 5 or 6 goals in that last 40 minutes or so.
Bellingham and Anderson deserved a lot better, they both put in a lot of hard work particularly.
A suicide in slow motion.
I feel the whole world could see what was happening and it was the job of TT to do something about it. He did the wrong things. All the wrong things.
100%the manager's fault... He has made endless errors in squad and team selection... Fluked a wat to a semi final and rescued defeat from the jaws of victory with insane substitutions and tactics..s... Made Southgate look a genius.
I would sack him now that was a genuine embarrassment, an abysmal shambles down entirely to the manager, this was useless he is hopeless...get rid now.
We score ...
We defend ....
We should have pushed on...
Poor management decision...
Hope and pray that's Kanes last England game , another disappearing act from our captain !
Seen it all before with Fulham, sit back off the ball in numbers to defend, actually means wait for the oppostion to score, How could any manager not know that is what happens?
You defend by taking the game to the opposition,
Awful awful substitutions and awful management.
If Tuchel had any respect for himself he'd resign after that showing. We stuttered to a semi final and he's bottled it in the most tragic way possible. We were pathetic after the second half drinks break
Lautaro Martinez is 5 foot 9.
He scored the winning header in between 2 6 foot 2 ish defenders.
Yes very poor from England on that, but have to appreciate the perfect cross from Messi.
The worst managerial performance in the history of the country.
Grand substitutions once again.
Roll on the start of the season,get back to proper football. ::scarf::
I don't buy the idea that he left the wrong players at home but he should have refreshed some of the attacking players before they scored.
As good as English players are it's my opinion that generally our football creates players that lack tactical awareness that the real elite teams have.
By that I mean keep the ball under pressure, not just pass it around when the opposition sit back or set the tempo of the game for more that one or two attacks.
Tonight was a typical example of not having any answers other than sit back and try to soak it up.
Oh boy, Nick Bateman will be having a field day
Quote from: demeant0r on July 15, 2026, 10:56:18 PMOh boy, Nick Bateman will be having a field day
In fairness, I'm not sure we can defend having Burn & Toney on the pitch in a WC semifinal? Should probably be relieved Henderson was injured or he'd have been on as well.
It's the English way. England needed better from Douchle. Zlatan said it himself before the game and TT played his cards just as everyone on the planet knew he would have by trying to park the bus vs. a Ferrari. Not a surprise and I bet on it and won so I'd feel a little better when it happened.
But UTF! I'm ready for Real Fulham and I've enjoyed supporting Bobb, Berge, Robinson along the way.
Absolutely farcical. Disastrous management.
Whilst I agree with 99% of your comments, how many other managers have got us to the semi final stages of the World Cup?
Quote from: blingo on July 15, 2026, 11:12:23 PMWhilst I agree with 99% of your comments, how many other managers have got us to the semi final stages of the World Cup?
He's still a great manager but made too many substitution errors, much like Marco. In fact, tonight reminded me very much of Marco's recent Fulham vs a big team.
Quote from: demeant0r on July 15, 2026, 10:56:18 PMOh boy, Nick Bateman will be having a field day
Sad you feel that is important to me. All I say is my warnings or leaving so many top level players out and now finding the Arsenal players are rubbish. Tuchel ruined England but had good tactics, but threw his tactics out the window and played super negative, something he argued against Southgate's style. He betrayed us!
Quote from: Nick Bateman on July 15, 2026, 11:32:29 PMQuote from: demeant0r on July 15, 2026, 10:56:18 PMOh boy, Nick Bateman will be having a field day
Sad you feel that is important to me. All I say is my warnings or leaving so many top level players out and now finding the Arsenal players are rubbish. Tuchel ruined England but had good tactics, but threw his tactics out the window and played super negative, something he argued against Southgate's style. He betrayed us!
Betrayed or naive in thinking we should park the bus, much like Marco of late?
Quote from: blingo on July 15, 2026, 11:12:23 PMWhilst I agree with 99% of your comments, how many other managers have got us to the semi final stages of the World Cup?
You get nothing from losing a semi final. His decisions were terrible. Do the right thing and resign immediately
Quote from: demeant0r on July 15, 2026, 11:34:37 PMQuote from: Nick Bateman on July 15, 2026, 11:32:29 PMQuote from: demeant0r on July 15, 2026, 10:56:18 PMOh boy, Nick Bateman will be having a field day
Sad you feel that is important to me. All I say is my warnings or leaving so many top level players out and now finding the Arsenal players are rubbish. Tuchel ruined England but had good tactics, but threw his tactics out the window and played super negative, something he argued against Southgate's style. He betrayed us!
Betrayed or naive in thinking we should park the bus, much like Marco of late?
Reminded me exactly of our games like everton away last year when we went 5 at the back too early and concede 2 late goals. Was almost vintage Marco.
Tuchel was brought in to take England to the next level. He failed with one of the most strange tactical decisions you will ever witness.
I just heard tuchs on the bbc... he is a state of mega denial. His analysis was totally wrong and his answers are sufficiently poor that the FA needs to let him go before the third place play off debacle
This is ramsey in 1970 all over again
made the wrong decisions when we were winning and cost us the game.... we have not yet learned or recovered, I feel very cheated as a supporter watching England underachieve because the FA pick the man that they think looks best rather than one that knows what he is doing... This manger is not good enough, he should go now! we could have kept southgate if this is the best this one can manage.
Quote from: blingo on July 15, 2026, 11:12:23 PMWhilst I agree with 99% of your comments, how many other managers have got us to the semi final stages of the World Cup?
Well I would hope we would beat DR Congo, Mexico, and Norway. Easier said than done of course, but the sort of games anyone with aspirations of winning the world cup should expect to win. And it wasnt exactly convincing. None of them were. We didnt get through them through great team performances or tactical masterclass. We were dragged on the back of England's 2 truly world class players, Bellingham and Kane. As a team we play like side ranked outside the top 10.
Tuchel did the same thing against Mexico and Norway - unfortunately, it didn't work tonight.
I really thought that the time had come for England to win it again, but you cannot only defend for almost a whole half - you need to play a bit of football too or, at least, try to.
Quote from: Andrew on July 16, 2026, 12:18:36 AMI just heard tuchs on the bbc... he is a state of mega denial. His analysis was totally wrong and his answers are sufficiently poor that the FA needs to let him go before the third place play off debacle
This is ramsey in 1970 all over again
made the wrong decisions when we were winning and cost us the game.... we have not yet learned or recovered, I feel very cheated as a supporter watching England underachieve because the FA pick the man that they think looks best rather than one that knows what he is doing... This manger is not good enough, he should go now! we could have kept southgate if this is the best this one can manage.
Let's see what Pep can do with this lot.
Like Fulham, England can't cross a ball (goal excepted). In contrast, just about every Argentinean cross was dangerous.
We basically became sitting ducks against one of the best teams in the world. 10 players just parked in our box with no outlet whatsoever. Everyone could see what would happen.
100% on Tuchel. Horrendous game management at 1-0 up with all the momentum. He should resign.
Hard to comprehend what Tuchel was doing, bringing on defenders and having us sit back defending our goal area, with no pacey outlets to take the ball up and relive the pressure. It was fatal against a team of Argentina's quality, with their crossing ability.
It was only when it was too late when Tuchel brought on attackers, and we showed how we could put Argentina under pressure.
It just seemed madness, when we'd done so well to match them and be a goal up, it was as if we threw the game away. I feel gutted for the players, who gave so much the whole tournament.
BUT If we had managed to keep that second, soft goal, out, and somehow come through in extra time, Tuchel would be a hero.
Agree with most on here. This is on Tuchel. Comparisons to Marco, but personally I got Parker vibes. That "all or nothing" subs
England had 12 percent possession between Gordons goal och Martinez. And had 25 correct passes in those 30 minuter. Of those total 39 passes, 12 of those was Pickfords.
Total surrender after Gordons goal
Quote from: Sgt Fulham on July 16, 2026, 01:13:03 AMQuote from: blingo on July 15, 2026, 11:12:23 PMWhilst I agree with 99% of your comments, how many other managers have got us to the semi final stages of the World Cup?
Well I would hope we would beat DR Congo, Mexico, and Norway. Easier said than done of course, but the sort of games anyone with aspirations of winning the world cup should expect to win. And it wasnt exactly convincing. None of them were. We didnt get through them through great team performances or tactical masterclass. We were dragged on the back of England's 2 truly world class players, Bellingham and Kane. As a team we play like side ranked outside the top 10.
Kane and Bellingham are definitely not world class !
Quote from: Dr Know on July 16, 2026, 07:24:10 AMQuote from: Sgt Fulham on July 16, 2026, 01:13:03 AMQuote from: blingo on July 15, 2026, 11:12:23 PMWhilst I agree with 99% of your comments, how many other managers have got us to the semi final stages of the World Cup?
Well I would hope we would beat DR Congo, Mexico, and Norway. Easier said than done of course, but the sort of games anyone with aspirations of winning the world cup should expect to win. And it wasnt exactly convincing. None of them were. We didnt get through them through great team performances or tactical masterclass. We were dragged on the back of England's 2 truly world class players, Bellingham and Kane. As a team we play like side ranked outside the top 10.
Kane and Bellingham are definitely not world class !
Precisely that,where were they last night,outshone by a 39yo guy.
Now he's World class.
Having mulled it over I'm actually genuinely angry with Tuchel. It was a huge tactical blunder, there was no need to withdraw Gordon and doing so completely nullified our threat, allowing Argentina to push up the pitch.
There's no question we needed a fit Rice in that game to help us regain the ball, but if we're gonna sub him we should've brought on Mainoo to help retain the ball, then switched to 4-3-3 instead of 4-2-3-1. Bellingham started his career as a def mid so could've helped us keep solid. If that still wasn't working, bring on Toney for Kane and go direct.
This is groundhog day, happens every time we take the lead in knockout games, but Tuchel was supposed to be different.
Watkins should have started instead of the sloth Kane !
In my opinion Rice's fitness issues have been fundamental to our poor performances. We needed his dynamism at both ends of the pitch. I can understand why Tuchel is reluctant to start Mainoo in a midfield two but he should've brought Wharton. Wharton could've played the 6 and Anderson the 8, as he does for Forest.
We've obviously had issues in defence and we've also missed a fit Saka, but midfield is the biggest issue.
Quote from: Dr Know on July 16, 2026, 07:24:10 AMQuote from: Sgt Fulham on July 16, 2026, 01:13:03 AMQuote from: blingo on July 15, 2026, 11:12:23 PMWhilst I agree with 99% of your comments, how many other managers have got us to the semi final stages of the World Cup?
Well I would hope we would beat DR Congo, Mexico, and Norway. Easier said than done of course, but the sort of games anyone with aspirations of winning the world cup should expect to win. And it wasnt exactly convincing. None of them were. We didnt get through them through great team performances or tactical masterclass. We were dragged on the back of England's 2 truly world class players, Bellingham and Kane. As a team we play like side ranked outside the top 10.
Kane and Bellingham are definitely not world class !
They're not miracle workers. Messi was able to do his thing because the other 9 players were willing to put in a shift.
Kane in this hybrid role only works if there are runners all over the pitch. Both Rice and James were too knackered for that, so we were rather neutered in the central and right attack. Argentina were able to double up on Bellingham and whilst he had plenty of good moments, Rogers needed more support.
This is on Tuchel, not the players.
After all these years and the supposed technical improvements, England still don't have (or don't use) the midfielders to control a game. Even against somewhat inferior teams such as Mexico and Norway, we struggled to control the midfield and ended up relying on rearguard actions to get through. That was never going to work against Argentina, but rather than bring on midfielders to try to seize back the initiative, we/he doubled down on parking the bus. We'll be here again each tournament until we change how we play.
I was thinking about what Marco would have said and done, and regrettably I find myself supporting some of the things that Nick Bateman has been droning on about.
So England score after 55 minutes. After that we stopped playing. We have obviously learned nothing from Croatia in the previous semi and Italy in the Euro final. I can hear Silva saying that we have to be brave. From the 55th minute to the first hydration break we were already passive. We stopped trying to pass and play our way out of the much more intense press. By the time of the hydration break we had set the tone. Tuchel then doubled down on the tactics and brought on defensive reinforcements.
How would Silva have responded in this situation for Fulham, he would have thrown on Tom Cairney. We neded someone to hold the ball and then take the sting out of the press. This is where I reluctantly agree with Nick, as those players were left behind.
In the end, we took the lead too early and then played like minnows in an FA Cup match against Manchester City. Our national psyche is wrong as we went straight into this mindset as soon as we scored.
Tuchel takes the biggest share of the blame for his subs. However, Arsenal are guilty as hell. Rice and Madueke were poor all tournament and Saka not fit.
Quote from: F(f)CUK on July 16, 2026, 08:23:00 AMI was thinking about what Marco would have said and done, and regrettably I find myself supporting some of the things that Nick Bateman has been droning on about.
So England score after 55 minutes. After that we stopped playing. We have obviously learned nothing from Croatia in the previous semi and Italy in the Euro final. I can hear Silva saying that we have to be brave. From the 55th minute to the first hydration break we were already passive. We stopped trying to pass and play our way out of the much more intense press. By the time of the hydration break we had set the tone. Tuchel then doubled down on the tactics and brought on defensive reinforcements.
How would Silva have responded in this situation for Fulham, he would have thrown on Tom Cairney. We neded someone to hold the ball and then take the sting out of the press. This is where I reluctantly agree with Nick, as those players were left behind.
In the end, we took the lead too early and then played like minnows in an FA Cup match against Manchester City. Our national psyche is wrong as we went straight into this mindset as soon as we scored.
Mainoo is our Cairney in this scenario. We should've brought Wharton.
Quote from: Fulham 1879 on July 16, 2026, 08:26:02 AMTuchel takes the biggest share of the blame for his subs. However, Arsenal are guilty as hell. Rice and Madueke were poor all tournament and Saka not fit.
Saka and Rice complete shadows of their former selves, they need a nice long holiday. Madueke unfortunately played exactly like himself, he's got all the tricks and flicks but absolutely no end product. Can't shoot, can't cross and is always diving. He's a premium version of Abou Kamara. I said before we should've brought Bowen, much more consistent.
some slightly exaggerated takes on here... I still think Tuchel is the right man for the job and would personally love him to stay. The subs were wrong, deep down he will know that better than anyone, but some of our key players last night just didn't turn up, which didn't help. We never manage Kane's minutes well in tournaments; i don't think he has to play full minutes EVERY game. You could tell in the last few games that he was becoming really fatigued; Rice we know the story...
Say whatever you want, but you have to hand it to the Argies. Incredible mentality...
Quote from: southwest6 on July 16, 2026, 08:46:22 AMsome slightly exaggerated takes on here... I still think Tuchel is the right man for the job and would personally love him to stay. The subs were wrong, deep down he will know that better than anyone, but some of our key players last night just didn't turn up, which didn't help. We never manage Kane's minutes well in tournaments; i don't think he has to play full minutes EVERY game. You could tell in the last few games that he was becoming really fatigued; Rice we know the story...
Say whatever you want, but you have to hand it to the Argies. Incredible mentality...
Yes, an incredible mentality which leads to the ability to manage the game, control midfield and create pressure.
Our players (apart from a few) always seem to lack the football intelligence found in the very best.
2 things - England sat back but Argentina only really started playing once they were a goal down. On the 'Cairney' point, Cole Palmer anyone?
We were dominant in the first half, after half time we got dominated. Did something happen at half time?
With Kane now unlikely to make another world cup, will someone else step up? We don't carry the same threat when he's not on the pitch in my opinion.
Second half, great to score, but was against run of play - Tuchel then made the mistakes of going too defensive too early - we invited Argentina on, with a single goal advantage, which is dumb, especially given their track record of coming back from behind in this world cup.
I think ultimately, did we lose the game, or did Argentina win it? Perhaps a mix? I think Tuchel's second half tactics and subs played into Argentina's hands perhaps too much and gave them more ascendency than they would've got otherwise.
All in all another disappointing exit, though only one team can ever win any cup competitions.
With France in the third game play off, I don't expect us to get anything out of the World Cup now.
France will want to prove a point and are the better side.
And an interesting post on Twitter:
"Guillem, I can't help repeating something I've told you before: England can never truly function as a team because they don't understand the word "solidarity" or the concept of collective football.
They always freeze when the decisive moment comes. They go out of every major tournament (World Cup or Euros) in the same way: not just losing, but making a mess of it. They always freeze when the decisive moment comes.
There's a historical pattern. At some point in the game they abandon each other. Every player starts looking after himself, trying to save his own skin.
Today they left the goalkeeper completely exposed. They all disappeared from the game, almost as if they were trying to avoid being singled out.
Can you say who was at fault for the goals? Exactly. The best thing for them is that no individual gets blamed. Collectively, they were responsible.
Everyone goes home relieved that it won't all fall on John or James. That it will all fall on Tuchel.
Meanwhile, Messi can hardly run, yet he spent the entire second half happily playing on the edge of the box. Enzo, too, kept finding space to shoot from the edge of the area — his trademark — until one finally went in.
An absolute disaster."
Quote from: Southcoastffc on July 16, 2026, 08:59:01 AM2 things - England sat back but Argentina only really started playing once they were a goal down. On the 'Cairney' point, Cole Palmer anyone?
Centre mid is the priority, we're not lacking number 10's. Wharton is a bigger miss than Palmer.
Quote from: General on July 16, 2026, 09:01:14 AMWe were dominant in the first half, after half time we got dominated. Did something happen at half time?
With Kane now unlikely to make another world cup, will someone else step up? We don't carry the same threat when he's not on the pitch in my opinion.
Second half, great to score, but was against run of play - Tuchel then made the mistakes of going too defensive too early - we invited Argentina on, with a single goal advantage, which is dumb, especially given their track record of coming back from behind in this world cup.
I think ultimately, did we lose the game, or did Argentina win it? Perhaps a mix? I think Tuchel's second half tactics and subs played into Argentina's hands perhaps too much and gave them more ascendency than they would've got otherwise.
All in all another disappointing exit, though only one team can ever win any cup competitions.
With France in the third game play off, I don't expect us to get anything out of the World Cup now.
France will want to prove a point and are the better side.
We lost the game because we lost the midfield battle, just like France did against Spain. Rice was ineffective, leaving Anderson to do it all on his own. We should've brought on Mainoo and gone 4-3-3 with Bellingham dropping back but still picking his moments to get forward. Mainoo would help keep the ball and regain momentum.
We should've kept Gordon on, when he departed that allowed Argentina's full back to bomb forward and they regularly created overloads leaving Spence overwhelmed.
By dropping to five at the back that gave Fernandez more time on the ball.
If none of that worked they should've subbed out Kane for Toney to keep hold of the ball and brought on Watkins for Rogers, and given him licence to find space.
Pickford could've gone direct, playing long to Toney to either hold it up or flick it on to Watkins.
Had to laugh at the Falklands bedsheet, another FIFA suspended suspension incoming.
Quote from: Southcoastffc on July 16, 2026, 09:02:08 AMAnd an interesting post on Twitter:
"Guillem, I can't help repeating something I've told you before: England can never truly function as a team because they don't understand the word "solidarity" or the concept of collective football.
They always freeze when the decisive moment comes. They go out of every major tournament (World Cup or Euros) in the same way: not just losing, but making a mess of it. They always freeze when the decisive moment comes.
There's a historical pattern. At some point in the game they abandon each other. Every player starts looking after himself, trying to save his own skin.
Today they left the goalkeeper completely exposed. They all disappeared from the game, almost as if they were trying to avoid being singled out.
Can you say who was at fault for the goals? Exactly. The best thing for them is that no individual gets blamed. Collectively, they were responsible.
Everyone goes home relieved that it won't all fall on John or James. That it will all fall on Tuchel.
Meanwhile, Messi can hardly run, yet he spent the entire second half happily playing on the edge of the box. Enzo, too, kept finding space to shoot from the edge of the area — his trademark — until one finally went in.
An absolute disaster."
This is a bizarre take. They didn't lack for solidarity or togetherness, if anything they relied on that far too much rather than basic footballing of trying to have the ball and take the game to the opposition and try to score a goal.
Why invite a team to come at you when that team has Messi in their ranks? Then he sets up both their goals. And when you have to defend a corner and you have everyone back why is there never a player on the edge of the penalty area closing down a player as he goes to shoot? For their equaliser the player had time to settle on the ball, send a text, take aim and blast home. Wonderful.
The thing about the changes was it was either going to work or not. If the changes worked and England won 1-0 everyone would all be say what a tactical masterclass by Tuchel. But I do agree, you probably shouldn't be inviting pressure when their team has Messi.
Quote from: cmg on July 15, 2026, 10:17:43 PMA suicide in slow motion.
[/quote
perfect description 👏
Quote from: demeant0r on July 16, 2026, 09:57:49 AMThe thing about the changes was it was either going to work or not. If the changes worked and England won 1-0 everyone would all be say what a tactical masterclass by Tuchel. But I do agree, you probably shouldn't be inviting pressure when their team has Messi.
The Dan Burn substitution was an act of someone that had started to believe their own press coverage. It made sense against Mexico, down to 10 men, backs against the wall. It had no logic in a game where we needed to try to grab back the initiative and stop the ball getting to Messi.
Gordon and Spence were the only ones taking them on, taking off Gordon left us with nothing, I would have replaced him with Rashford who would have run at them, we gave them nothing to think about, there was very little defending for them to do. Of course TT will be getting slaughtered, but I think he was trying not to lose the game rather than making sure they won.
It doesn't matter now it's all over.
It seemed like TT thought because the defensive subs worked in previous games, they would work here. Everyone could see there was no outlet once Gordon went off. Rashford should have come on earlier, allowing us to run at them more.
Both their CBs were on yellow cards and yet we never ran at them.
There was a bench full of fresh(er) players who were not used or not until it was too late. I'm not sure what Mainoo has done to upset TT but he would have been perfect to bring on for a tiring Rice to help retain the ball.
Anyway, a missed opportunity for sure. I don't believe TT should be sacked but he does need to learn from this.
It seems by and large we are agreed except for whether TT should stay.
IMO it is obvious to me he should already have been 'let go.' |The squad selection and last night's tactics after going one up were both unforgivable. when alf took off Charlton in 1970 it was obvious Germany were being handed the imitative which they grasped and last night replacing Gordon with a defender was the same, the result was inevitable against a good team like Argentina. TT needs to go just like Alf should have gone in 1970.. Then we kept him and his lack of tactical awareness did irreparable damage that I don't think we have yet to fully recover from, with years of poor management and bizarre management failures.... if TT stays the same is about to happen agaiun, history repeats itself, in the end the FA are useless and are the ones for appointing the wrong man and now seemingly allowing him to stay.
But if TT had any integrity he would walk away and I for one would not miss him.
Quote from: alfie on July 16, 2026, 10:50:12 AMGordon and Spence were the only ones taking them on, taking off Gordon left us with nothing, I would have replaced him with Rashford who would have run at them, we gave them nothing to think about, there was very little defending for them to do. Of course TT will be getting slaughtered, but I think he was trying not to lose the game rather than making sure they won.
It doesn't matter now it's all over.
After 60 years, it's still true. "They think it's all over.....it is now."
Quote from: SP on July 16, 2026, 09:35:44 AMHad to laugh at the Falklands bedsheet, another FIFA suspended suspension incoming.
I've no strong attachment to the Falkland Islands, but I do object to this nonsense Argentinian rhetoric, Argentina's legal argument is built on sand. The law is with us and if they were so confident they would've taken us to court.
I wonder if they see the irony in calling us imperialist, when their entire country is built on imperialism. It's purely political, a useful distraction when the economy goes to pot.
My two kids and I called it from the sofa, starting from the 72nd minute when he brought on Konsa and took off our quickest outlet in Gordon and the invitation to Argentina to grab the initiative began. I don´t need to be paid god knows how many millions to see what was blindingly obvious.
Quote from: bencher on July 16, 2026, 09:37:15 AMQuote from: Southcoastffc on July 16, 2026, 09:02:08 AMAnd an interesting post on Twitter:
"Guillem, I can't help repeating something I've told you before: England can never truly function as a team because they don't understand the word "solidarity" or the concept of collective football.
They always freeze when the decisive moment comes. They go out of every major tournament (World Cup or Euros) in the same way: not just losing, but making a mess of it. They always freeze when the decisive moment comes.
There's a historical pattern. At some point in the game they abandon each other. Every player starts looking after himself, trying to save his own skin.
Today they left the goalkeeper completely exposed. They all disappeared from the game, almost as if they were trying to avoid being singled out.
Can you say who was at fault for the goals? Exactly. The best thing for them is that no individual gets blamed. Collectively, they were responsible.
Everyone goes home relieved that it won't all fall on John or James. That it will all fall on Tuchel.
Meanwhile, Messi can hardly run, yet he spent the entire second half happily playing on the edge of the box. Enzo, too, kept finding space to shoot from the edge of the area — his trademark — until one finally went in.
An absolute disaster."
This is a bizarre take. They didn't lack for solidarity or togetherness, if anything they relied on that far too much rather than basic footballing of trying to have the ball and take the game to the opposition and try to score a goal.
IMO "trying to have the ball and take the game to the opposition and try to score a goal" is exactly what solidarity & togetherness is at the elite level.
Its bloody hard work and a feeling of unity to achieve and support one another, England have a lot of huffing and puffing but their collective football intellect is found wanting.
There is a sense in irony that we've tried for over a decade to emulate the Spanish way of coaching, playing football and nurturing talent both on and off the pitch, but fail at exactly what make Spain so good. Game management. Watching Spain just dismantle a generational talented side like France like they did, and watching us just crumble to tactics we've been used to since the early 90's just shows we haven't really progressed in terms of game management.
Quote from: Citizen Smith on July 16, 2026, 12:28:50 PMMy two kids and I called it from the sofa, starting from the 72nd minute when he brought on Konsa and took off our quickest outlet in Gordon and the invitation to Argentina to grab the initiative began. I don´t need to be paid god knows how many millions to see what was blindingly obvious.
We've all watched it a million times under parker and to some degree Marco.
Play defensive, sets a mindest of we're just gonna try and hang on cos we're not good enough to win playing out way. Concede late.
Classic how many times we see this happen.
I hate it at club level, I hate it at international level, and I can't seem to escape it in either.
For once, I would just like an elite manager with a winning mentality like Pep who wants to win it playing attacking football and taking it to other teams. If we die we die. We had our best success under Marco during the times when no matter the opponement, Fulham showed up to play the right way, believing we could attack and dictate the play no matter who you were.
Completely over this defensive boring rubbish served up by Southgate. How disappointing to be so close and to revert back to his exact brand and whimper out yet again.
Too scared to lose, not brave enough to win.
By the Beard of Zeus,
I am absolutely gutted, that we snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, especially against them.
The best form of defence at any level is attack, goals change games.
Terry Venables, Bobby Robson and Brian Clough all had that mentality.
A massive education for Tuchel if he is still around.
The World Cup might not be ours but the Falklands are. Argentina are a carbuncle on the backside of Association Football , and a stench under the nostrils of the English Nation.
It's about bouncing back together providing Tuchel has not lost the dressing room.
We have a chance on Saturday playing France to erase any demons, even though France play act with their diving and feigning injury, it still will be a footballing game, and we must take this third place ( Bronze ) match seriously by returning with a victory in our last match.
It is character building for strong mentality.
Because strength does not come from winning alone. Your troubles develop your strength. When you come through hardships and decide not to surrender, that is strength.
I have always said that you either win or you
learn, that is the best philosophy.
Quote from: jayffc on July 16, 2026, 01:02:49 PMQuote from: Citizen Smith on July 16, 2026, 12:28:50 PMMy two kids and I called it from the sofa, starting from the 72nd minute when he brought on Konsa and took off our quickest outlet in Gordon and the invitation to Argentina to grab the initiative began. I don´t need to be paid god knows how many millions to see what was blindingly obvious.
We've all watched it a million times under parker and to some degree Marco.
Play defensive, sets a mindest of we're just gonna try and hang on cos we're not good enough to win playing out way. Concede late.
Classic how many times we see this happen.
I hate it at club level, I hate it at international level, and I can't seem to escape it in either.
For once, I would just like an elite manager with a winning mentality like Pep who wants to win it playing attacking football and taking it to other teams. If we die we die. We had our best success under Marco during the times when no matter the opponement, Fulham showed up to play the right way, believing we could attack and dictate the play no matter who you were.
Completely over this defensive boring rubbish served up by Southgate. How disappointing to be so close and to revert back to his exact brand and whimper out yet again.
Is Man City really that attacking? Maybe in previous seasons but last season I remember they just played sideways-backwards passing football like Fulham. Only reason it worked better than us was they have miles better players.
Quote from: jayffc on July 16, 2026, 01:02:49 PMQuote from: Citizen Smith on July 16, 2026, 12:28:50 PMMy two kids and I called it from the sofa, starting from the 72nd minute when he brought on Konsa and took off our quickest outlet in Gordon and the invitation to Argentina to grab the initiative began. I don´t need to be paid god knows how many millions to see what was blindingly obvious.
We've all watched it a million times under parker and to some degree Marco.
Play defensive, sets a mindest of we're just gonna try and hang on cos we're not good enough to win playing out way. Concede late.
Classic how many times we see this happen.
I hate it at club level, I hate it at international level, and I can't seem to escape it in either.
For once, I would just like an elite manager with a winning mentality like Pep who wants to win it playing attacking football and taking it to other teams. If we die we die. We had our best success under Marco during the times when no matter the opponement, Fulham showed up to play the right way, believing we could attack and dictate the play no matter who you were.
Completely over this defensive boring rubbish served up by Southgate. How disappointing to be so close and to revert back to his exact brand and whimper out yet again.
Sums up how I feel as well.
Quote from: Bassey the warrior on July 16, 2026, 12:26:40 PMQuote from: SP on July 16, 2026, 09:35:44 AMHad to laugh at the Falklands bedsheet, another FIFA suspended suspension incoming.
I've no strong attachment to the Falkland Islands, but I do object to this nonsense Argentinian rhetoric, Argentina's legal argument is built on sand. The law is with us and if they were so confident they would've taken us to court.
I wonder if they see the irony in calling us imperialist, when their entire country is built on imperialism. It's purely political, a useful distraction when the economy goes to pot.
Absolutely correct we have already given them a bloody nose via our task force back in 1982.
It is time, and the next time we do the same on the field of play.
It was a superb away win in 1982 and we can do it again.
We showed them never to poke a Lion.
A good way to get this monkey off our backs is to beat France on Saturday.
Both the manager and players collectively bottled it! Completely unforgiveable that England stopped playing completely after Gordon scored. The players being knackered is no excuse in this day and age when you can make 5 substitutions. Tuchel should have taken off Kane, Gordon and Rice for Watkins, Rashford and Mainoo on or around the 60th min.
He would then still have opportunity to bring on another midfielder (would have to be Eze as Henderson is injured) and a defender much later in the game if needed.
With both of Argentina's centre halves booked - surely the option should have been to go at them.
There should also have been a plan to have another player on Messi if and when Anderson got booked. Just unfathomable that they didn't do it!
On the subject of bookings (with the referees performance largely forgotten after the second half drama) - how the hell did Argentina get away so many bad fouls in the first half). Simeone racked up enough to get at least four yellows and Fernandez also committed at least a couple of bad challenges that the referee either ignored or didn't see!
WTF?? WTF Happened?? Very disappointing result. Thought England was the better team first half and up until first goal scored. Not that they were bossing the game, but, I felt the better team. Can't understand the propensity to sit on one goal leads. We see it all the time, in all the various professional leagues. Many times, of course, teams can see that through for the win. But, of course, not in a lot of cases. I hope FFC new coach is observing and takes this lesson to heart.
Early in the tournament I had posted how I couldn't understand why England can't do much better in these competitions. That team was loaded with talent (IMHO). As have been past teams, lots of great players to choose from, select. I don't get it. Maybe it boils down to the coach? Certainly in this loss to Argentina he had the team play in a shell and try to see the one goal lead through. With all that talent in the team, sometimes a good offense can be a good defense and way to protect a lead , if not improve upon it.
Quote from: Lordedmundo on July 16, 2026, 03:32:12 PMBoth the manager and players collectively bottled it! Completely unforgiveable that England stopped playing completely after Gordon scored. The players being knackered is no excuse in this day and age when you can make 5 substitutions. Tuchel should have taken off Kane, Gordon and Rice for Watkins, Rashford and Mainoo on or around the 60th min.
He would then still have opportunity to bring on another midfielder (would have to be Eze as Henderson is injured) and a defender much later in the game if needed.
With both of Argentina's centre halves booked - surely the option should have been to go at them.
There should also have been a plan to have another player on Messi if and when Anderson got booked. Just unfathomable that they didn't do it!
On the subject of bookings (with the referees performance largely forgotten after the second half drama) - how the hell did Argentina get away so many bad fouls in the first half). Simeone racked up enough to get at least four yellows and Fernandez also committed made at least a couple of bad challenges that the referee either ignored or didn't see!
It's a carve up, orchestrated by the ET infantino.
The referee was under instructions, you could read him like a book with the guilty expression on his face knowing he was complicit in ensuring Argentina reach the Final.
They held a corrupt rat under my nose. And I smelt it
It's been the same for years, players and manager bottling it. Just want a team to attack and attack, ffs just go for it for a change.
Quote from: Bassey the warrior on July 16, 2026, 12:26:40 PMQuote from: SP on July 16, 2026, 09:35:44 AMHad to laugh at the Falklands bedsheet, another FIFA suspended suspension incoming.
I've no strong attachment to the Falkland Islands, but I do object to this nonsense Argentinian rhetoric, Argentina's legal argument is built on sand. The law is with us and if they were so confident they would've taken us to court.
I wonder if they see the irony in calling us imperialist, when their entire country is built on imperialism. It's purely political, a useful distraction when the economy goes to pot.
You fought a war. You won. (Sadly, I guess) that kinda settles it.
Quote from: DadCreature on July 16, 2026, 07:23:23 PMQuote from: Bassey the warrior on July 16, 2026, 12:26:40 PMQuote from: SP on July 16, 2026, 09:35:44 AMHad to laugh at the Falklands bedsheet, another FIFA suspended suspension incoming.
I've no strong attachment to the Falkland Islands, but I do object to this nonsense Argentinian rhetoric, Argentina's legal argument is built on sand. The law is with us and if they were so confident they would've taken us to court.
I wonder if they see the irony in calling us imperialist, when their entire country is built on imperialism. It's purely political, a useful distraction when the economy goes to pot.
You fought a war. You won. (Sadly, I guess) that kinda settles it.
Officially it's still in dispute, there were rumours Trump might side with Argentina after a petulant reaction to us not joining the Iran war but nothing has come of it yet.
Quote from: Snibbo on July 16, 2026, 03:50:38 AMLike Fulham, England can't cross a ball (goal excepted). In contrast, just about every Argentinean cross was dangerous.
Because Messi was given acres of space to cross. Nobody even attempting to close him down. Or closing down players on the edge of our box. The defenders looked panicky and frankly knackered.
Infantino has done to football, what The Charge of The Light Brigade did to army recruitment.
Tuchel failed in his stated mission to win the World Cup, and also in the semi-final he made substitutions and tactical adjustments which were so obviously bad that everyone else could see it at the time.
In other circumstances, one might say he has had only one opportunity, let's hope he has learned from it and be better for the experience. However, in my view, he should now resign or be sacked, mainly because he failed by his own criteria. He was specifically chosen and paid a huge salary to be the manager who would make the crucial difference in big games. He didn't, he did worse. He was very critical of Southgate for being too cautious and said he would not be the same, but was even more defensive himself. Finally and most tellingly, he was adamant that "if we lose, we lose in our way". He palpably failed to live up to that when the big moment came and the pressure was on.
I have no personal animosity towards him, but he should go because he was unable to live up to what he said he would do, and he failed to deliver at precisely the moment he was selected for. The nature of international football is that you usually only get one chance, which may seem harsh, but that is the reality.
What I have written pretty much guarantees that he will lead us to winning the Euros in 2028 and the World Cup in 20230 ::smile:: , in which case I would cheerfully eat as much humble pie as I could stomach
Quote from: Coastwalker on July 16, 2026, 07:34:17 AMQuote from: Dr Know on July 16, 2026, 07:24:10 AMQuote from: Sgt Fulham on July 16, 2026, 01:13:03 AMQuote from: blingo on July 15, 2026, 11:12:23 PMWhilst I agree with 99% of your comments, how many other managers have got us to the semi final stages of the World Cup?
Well I would hope we would beat DR Congo, Mexico, and Norway. Easier said than done of course, but the sort of games anyone with aspirations of winning the world cup should expect to win. And it wasnt exactly convincing. None of them were. We didnt get through them through great team performances or tactical masterclass. We were dragged on the back of England's 2 truly world class players, Bellingham and Kane. As a team we play like side ranked outside the top 10.
Kane and Bellingham are definitely not world class !
Precisely that,where were they last night,outshone by a 39yo guy.
Now he's World class.
If Messi is the bar for world class, then there has only ever been 1 world class player!
I would be interested to hear why you think they are not world class? They almost single handedly dragged us to a world cup semi final. Kane's record is by definition world class, though you could accuse him of disappearing in big games. Bellingham thrives in big games, and was absolutely world class during this world cup and our best player by a country mile. What more would they need to realistically do to be world class in your estimation?
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on July 16, 2026, 06:34:15 PMIt's a carve up, orchestrated by the ET infantino.
The referee was under instructions, you could read him like a book with the guilty expression on his face knowing he was complicit in ensuring Argentina reach the Final.
They held a corrupt rat under my nose. And I smelt it
Not buying
Now that the dust has settled somewhat and we (some of us) have cooled off, here are some thoughts on why we lost.
1. We weren't good enough on the day.
2. We weren't ever good enough.
3. We had too many injuries to key players.
4. We exhausted our stamina.
5. we had travelled too many miles.
6. We had performed at altitude without time to recover.
7. We had performed in extreme heat.
8. We failed to make use of our fresher players
9. The strategy was wrong.
10. The substitutions removed our threat and gave away the impetus.
11. We had no outlet to relieve the pressure on our defence.
12. There were so many defenders in our box that they left it to each other at times.
13. We had failed to take note of Argentina's method against Egypt which led to three late goals.
14. No-one was detailed to sit tight on Messi and pressurise his crossing.
15. No-one was detailed to close down opponents shooting from the edge of our box.
16. The Captain failed to take charge on the pitch and organise the defenders.
Comments?
Catching up on this thread so apologies if I'm duplicating others.
Watching live I felt the ref had a good game and we had only our own tactics to blame.
Having seen better replays of various moments (eg the Messi stamp ahead of their second goal) I'm firmly of the view that it was a total FIFA/officiating stitch-up.
Horrible World Cup from start to finish, led by a horrible organisation, horrible hosts, and a horrible team we went out to.
Symptomatic of a frankly horrible era of Western civilisation these last few years.
Quote from: LittleErn on July 17, 2026, 04:57:07 PMNow that the dust has settled somewhat and we (some of us) have cooled off, here are some thoughts on why we lost.
1. We weren't good enough on the day.
2. We weren't ever good enough.
3. We had too many injuries to key players.
4. We exhausted our stamina.
5. we had travelled too many miles.
6. We had performed at altitude without time to recover.
7. We had performed in extreme heat.
8. We failed to make use of our fresher players
9. The strategy was wrong.
10. The substitutions removed our threat and gave away the impetus.
11. We had no outlet to relieve the pressure on our defence.
12. There were so many defenders in our box that they left it to each other at times.
13. We had failed to take note of Argentina's method against Egypt which led to three late goals.
14. No-one was detailed to sit tight on Messi and pressurise his crossing.
15. No-one was detailed to close down opponents shooting from the edge of our box.
16. The Captain failed to take charge on the pitch and organise the defenders.
Comments?
Id add,
Goalie failed to lead from the back. Push out defence. (I hated my defenders on my toes. "GET UP!")
Quote from: LittleErn on July 17, 2026, 04:57:07 PMNow that the dust has settled somewhat and we (some of us) have cooled off, here are some thoughts on why we lost.
1. We weren't good enough on the day.
2. We weren't ever good enough.
3. We had too many injuries to key players.
4. We exhausted our stamina.
5. we had travelled too many miles.
6. We had performed at altitude without time to recover.
7. We had performed in extreme heat.
8. We failed to make use of our fresher players
9. The strategy was wrong.
10. The substitutions removed our threat and gave away the impetus.
11. We had no outlet to relieve the pressure on our defence.
12. There were so many defenders in our box that they left it to each other at times.
13. We had failed to take note of Argentina's method against Egypt which led to three late goals.
14. No-one was detailed to sit tight on Messi and pressurise his crossing.
15. No-one was detailed to close down opponents shooting from the edge of our box.
16. The Captain failed to take charge on the pitch and organise the defenders.
Comments?
100%
and Tuchel should be frogmarched back from whence he came.
I wouldn't trust him to feed my Goldfish.
Quote from: Angus Telford on July 17, 2026, 08:39:23 PMHorrible World Cup from start to finish, led by a horrible organisation, horrible hosts, and a horrible team we went out to.
Symptomatic of a frankly horrible era of Western civilisation these last few years.
Wait til you see who sticks his mug into the presentation of the cup to the winners 🤮
Quote from: LittleErn on July 17, 2026, 04:57:07 PMNow that the dust has settled somewhat and we (some of us) have cooled off, here are some thoughts on why we lost.
1. We weren't good enough on the day.
2. We weren't ever good enough.
3. We had too many injuries to key players.
4. We exhausted our stamina.
5. we had travelled too many miles.
6. We had performed at altitude without time to recover.
7. We had performed in extreme heat.
8. We failed to make use of our fresher players
9. The strategy was wrong.
10. The substitutions removed our threat and gave away the impetus.
11. We had no outlet to relieve the pressure on our defence.
12. There were so many defenders in our box that they left it to each other at times.
13. We had failed to take note of Argentina's method against Egypt which led to three late goals.
14. No-one was detailed to sit tight on Messi and pressurise his crossing.
15. No-one was detailed to close down opponents shooting from the edge of our box.
16. The Captain failed to take charge on the pitch and organise the defenders.
Comments?
Picked entirely the wrong squad to begin with.
Chalobah was a fantastic replacement. 🙄 Tuchel deserves all the pelters. Although the officiating was the worst and clearly fixed for the Argies to do whatever shithousery they wanted. The Argentinians playing here will get the treatment next season and rightly so.
Quote from: Angus Telford on July 17, 2026, 08:39:23 PMCatching up on this thread so apologies if I'm duplicating others.
Watching live I felt the ref had a good game and we had only our own tactics to blame.
Having seen better replays of various moments (eg the Messi stamp ahead of their second goal) I'm firmly of the view that it was a total FIFA/officiating stitch-up.
Horrible World Cup from start to finish, led by a horrible organisation, horrible hosts, and a horrible team we went out to.
Symptomatic of a frankly horrible era of Western civilisation these last few years.
Which in your opinion is a better civilisation then?
I do understand it is a horrible time to live in the uk at the moment,
but to condemn a whole civilisation is a bit weird.
Quote from: LittleErn on July 17, 2026, 04:57:07 PMNow that the dust has settled somewhat and we (some of us) have cooled off, here are some thoughts on why we lost.
1. We weren't good enough on the day.
2. We weren't ever good enough.
3. We had too many injuries to key players.
4. We exhausted our stamina.
5. we had travelled too many miles.
6. We had performed at altitude without time to recover.
7. We had performed in extreme heat.
8. We failed to make use of our fresher players
9. The strategy was wrong.
10. The substitutions removed our threat and gave away the impetus.
11. We had no outlet to relieve the pressure on our defence.
12. There were so many defenders in our box that they left it to each other at times.
13. We had failed to take note of Argentina's method against Egypt which led to three late goals.
14. No-one was detailed to sit tight on Messi and pressurise his crossing.
15. No-one was detailed to close down opponents shooting from the edge of our box.
16. The Captain failed to take charge on the pitch and organise the defenders.
Comments?
I agree with 1, 8, 10, 11, 12, 14 and 15.
Jeepers. What a phenomenal amount of sour grapes! England weren't good enough to win a football match. That's the top and tail of it.
Quote from: Super Mick on July 18, 2026, 03:52:26 AMChalobah was a fantastic replacement. 🙄 Tuchel deserves all the pelters. Although the officiating was the worst and clearly fixed for the Argies to do whatever shithousery they wanted. The Argentinians playing here will get the treatment next season and rightly so.
Absolutely
Quote from: Southcoastffc on July 18, 2026, 01:57:41 PMJeepers. What a phenomenal amount of sour grapes! England weren't good enough to win a football match. That's the top and tail of it.
Correct.
Utter tosh being stated.
Quote from: The Cravenette on July 16, 2026, 10:56:16 AMIt seemed like TT thought because the defensive subs worked in previous games, they would work here. Everyone could see there was no outlet once Gordon went off. Rashford should have come on earlier, allowing us to run at them more.
Both their CBs were on yellow cards and yet we never ran at them.
There was a bench full of fresh(er) players who were not used or not until it was too late. I'm not sure what Mainoo has done to upset TT but he would have been perfect to bring on for a tiring Rice to help retain the ball.
Anyway, a missed opportunity for sure. I don't believe TT should be sacked but he does need to learn from this.
Revenge will be sweet.
If you miss the fox today, no worries.
Because you can always hunt him tomorrow.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on July 18, 2026, 03:32:14 PMQuote from: Super Mick on July 18, 2026, 03:52:26 AMChalobah was a fantastic replacement. 🙄 Tuchel deserves all the pelters. Although the officiating was the worst and clearly fixed for the Argies to do whatever shithousery they wanted. The Argentinians playing here will get the treatment next season and rightly so.
Absolutely
If you stand by the banks of the river long enough, you will watch the bodies of your enemies float by.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on July 19, 2026, 12:59:48 PMQuote from: Woolly Mammoth on July 18, 2026, 03:32:14 PMQuote from: Super Mick on July 18, 2026, 03:52:26 AMChalobah was a fantastic replacement. 🙄 Tuchel deserves all the pelters. Although the officiating was the worst and clearly fixed for the Argies to do whatever shithousery they wanted. The Argentinians playing here will get the treatment next season and rightly so.
Absolutely
If you stand by the banks of the river long enough, you will watch the bodies of your enemies float by.
60 bloody years we have been standing by the river and
all we have seen is Effluent floating by.
"Thomas Tuchel admits there's a visible gap between England and the world's elite"
I can't believe TT said this recently, after Englands departure in the WC. That team was loaded, imho, and some of the best players didn't even smell the grass v Argentina. There really is no reason why England couldn't have won this competition based on player talent. Still disappointed they lost to Argentina.
I've not read every page on this but I so agree most of what I've read are vilifying tuchel and justifiable too. A phone call to my daughter on the final whistle and we both said the same 100% tuchel fault .
Quote from: john dempsey on July 19, 2026, 01:17:07 PMQuote from: Woolly Mammoth on July 19, 2026, 12:59:48 PMQuote from: Woolly Mammoth on July 18, 2026, 03:32:14 PMQuote from: Super Mick on July 18, 2026, 03:52:26 AMChalobah was a fantastic replacement. 🙄 Tuchel deserves all the pelters. Although the officiating was the worst and clearly fixed for the Argies to do whatever shithousery they wanted. The Argentinians playing here will get the treatment next season and rightly so.
Absolutely
If you stand by the banks of the river long enough, you will watch the bodies of your enemies float by.
60 bloody years we have been standing by the river and
all we have seen is Effluent floating by.
May I suggest you possibly have been standing by the wrong river all those years, or as you mentioned effluent perhaps you have been confused with standing next to the Hammy End Bogs.
Quote from: Angus Telford on July 17, 2026, 08:39:23 PMWatching live I felt the ref had a good game and we had only our own tactics to blame.
I don't think there's a person around that felt the same as you. From the 1st minute it was pretty clear he was bent. The Fernandez punch to the back of Andersen's head was a clear red IMO, the ref instead chose to berate England players for moaning about it.
The goal that Spain had chalked off last night for Merino standing on the CB's foot was no different to Messi's on Spence, but watch the different player reactions.
Argentina, across the world have people shaking their head in disbelief that they got so far (thanks to the refs).
Quote from: Jim© on July 20, 2026, 01:31:04 PMQuote from: Angus Telford on July 17, 2026, 08:39:23 PMWatching live I felt the ref had a good game and we had only our own tactics to blame.
I don't think there's a person around that felt the same as you. From the 1st minute it was pretty clear he was bent. The Fernandez punch to the back of Andersen's head was a clear red IMO, the ref instead chose to berate England players for moaning about it.
The goal that Spain had chalked off last night for Merino standing on the CB's foot was no different to Messi's on Spence, but watch the different player reactions.
Argentina, across the world have people shaking their head in disbelief that they got so far (thanks to the refs).
Do not forget Muniz accidently standing on Chalobahs foot,
Robbing Josh King against chelsea.£££££$$$$$$$
Quote from: Jim© on July 20, 2026, 01:31:04 PMQuote from: Angus Telford on July 17, 2026, 08:39:23 PMWatching live I felt the ref had a good game and we had only our own tactics to blame.
I don't think there's a person around that felt the same as you. From the 1st minute it was pretty clear he was bent. The Fernandez punch to the back of Andersen's head was a clear red IMO, the ref instead chose to berate England players for moaning about it.
The goal that Spain had chalked off last night for Merino standing on the CB's foot was no different to Messi's on Spence, but watch the different player reactions.
Argentina, across the world have people shaking their head in disbelief that they got so far (thanks to the refs).
Weird fight to pick considering the sentence I wrote after the one you've quoted
Quote from: Jim© on July 20, 2026, 01:31:04 PMQuote from: Angus Telford on July 17, 2026, 08:39:23 PMWatching live I felt the ref had a good game and we had only our own tactics to blame.
I don't think there's a person around that felt the same as you. From the 1st minute it was pretty clear he was bent. The Fernandez punch to the back of Andersen's head was a clear red IMO, the ref instead chose to berate England players for moaning about it.
The goal that Spain had chalked off last night for Merino standing on the CB's foot was no different to Messi's on Spence, but watch the different player reactions.
Argentina, across the world have people shaking their head in disbelief that they got so far (thanks to the refs).
Messi didn't stand on Spece, the image was altered:
https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/photo-altered-suggest-lionel-messi-stamped-england-player-world-cup-semi-final-2026-07-17/
I do agree Spain's goal should have counted, Spanish player was literally facing the opposite direction.
I absolutely can't stand Argentina but I thought the ref was decent. Granted he should've booked Argentina for some of the shocking early fouls but throughout the tournament refs have been reluctant to issue early bookings.
The only reason we lost was Tuchel's cowardice. His post match comments about England lacking the DNA for a possession game rubbed salt into the wounds and ignored how things have changed in the last ten years. Mainoo and Wharton are both great at keeping the ball but neither were given a chance.
His subs were a disgrace and as much as I love Kane, he should've been subbed after such an ineffective game. Watkins or Toney would've given the Cbs something to think about and both on a yellow. Gordon should've stayed on and Saka should've been given minutes.
Regardless of what he's said in public, I find it hard to believe Tuchel wouldn't have recognised his mistake. Hopefully he can learn from this as this team are good enough to win the Euros.
Quote from: Bassey the warrior on July 21, 2026, 11:18:52 AMI absolutely can't stand Argentina but I thought the ref was decent. Granted he should've booked Argentina for some of the shocking early fouls but throughout the tournament refs have been reluctant to issue early bookings.
The only reason we lost was Tuchel's cowardice. His post match comments about England lacking the DNA for a possession game rubbed salt into the wounds and ignored how things have changed in the last ten years. Mainoo and Wharton are both great at keeping the ball but neither were given a chance.
His subs were a disgrace and as much as I love Kane, he should've been subbed after such an ineffective game. Watkins or Toney would've given the Cbs something to think about and both on a yellow. Gordon should've stayed on and Saka should've been given minutes.
Regardless of what he's said in public, I find it hard to believe Tuchel wouldn't have recognised his mistake. Hopefully he can learn from this as this team are good enough to win the Euros.
I'd also add that I expect Hansi Flick to take Gordon's game to the next level. He's a great coach and has resurrected many players careers which had stagnates a bit.
Quote from: Bassey the warrior on July 21, 2026, 11:08:55 AMMessi didn't stand on Spece, the image was altered
I didn't mean the still image, I meant in real time, it was clear that he'd trodden on his foot (which he did). It was no more or less than what happened to Otamendi v Spain, but Spence spun, carried on.
I just don't know how anyone feels that the ref had a good game, there's literally millions of posts from all over the world about some of his shocking decisions.
Quote from: Jim© on July 21, 2026, 11:24:56 AMQuote from: Bassey the warrior on July 21, 2026, 11:08:55 AMMessi didn't stand on Spece, the image was altered
I didn't mean the still image, I meant in real time, it was clear that he'd trodden on his foot (which he did). It was no more or less than what happened to Otamendi v Spain, but Spence spun, carried on.
I just don't know how anyone feels that the ref had a good game, there's literally millions of posts from all over the world about some of his shocking decisions.
He didn't though, he jumped over Spence.
Quote from: Bassey the warrior on July 21, 2026, 12:02:26 PMHe didn't though, he jumped over Spence.
One foot did, the other foot didn't. It's there for everyone to see.
I guess this shows the difficulty that refs have (that we can't agree on it)?
Quote from: Jim© on July 21, 2026, 01:49:52 PMQuote from: Bassey the warrior on July 21, 2026, 12:02:26 PMHe didn't though, he jumped over Spence.
One foot did, the other foot didn't. It's there for everyone to see.
I guess this shows the difficulty that refs have (that we can't agree on it)?
So which of Spence's legs did Messi stamp on?
Be careful how you answer this one,
get it wrong and you wont have
a leg to stand on.
Quote from: Bassey the warrior on July 21, 2026, 02:27:23 PMQuote from: Jim© on July 21, 2026, 01:49:52 PMQuote from: Bassey the warrior on July 21, 2026, 12:02:26 PMHe didn't though, he jumped over Spence.
One foot did, the other foot didn't. It's there for everyone to see.
I guess this shows the difficulty that refs have (that we can't agree on it)?
So which of Spence's legs did Messi stamp on?
No one said stamp, he stood on his foot. It's not with his left leg that hurdles him, but his right as he comes down. Watch undoctored videos of it, it's pretty clear.
Quote from: Jim© on July 21, 2026, 03:32:03 PMQuote from: Bassey the warrior on July 21, 2026, 02:27:23 PMQuote from: Jim© on July 21, 2026, 01:49:52 PMQuote from: Bassey the warrior on July 21, 2026, 12:02:26 PMHe didn't though, he jumped over Spence.
One foot did, the other foot didn't. It's there for everyone to see.
I guess this shows the difficulty that refs have (that we can't agree on it)?
So which of Spence's legs did Messi stamp on?
No one said stamp, he stood on his foot. It's not with his left leg that hurdles him, but his right as he comes down. Watch undoctored videos of it, it's pretty clear.
The only difference is that Spence didn't throw himself down, if he had it might have been reviewed.
Quote from: Jim© on July 21, 2026, 03:32:03 PMQuote from: Bassey the warrior on July 21, 2026, 02:27:23 PMQuote from: Jim© on July 21, 2026, 01:49:52 PMQuote from: Bassey the warrior on July 21, 2026, 12:02:26 PMHe didn't though, he jumped over Spence.
One foot did, the other foot didn't. It's there for everyone to see.
I guess this shows the difficulty that refs have (that we can't agree on it)?
So which of Spence's legs did Messi stamp on?
No one said stamp, he stood on his foot. It's not with his left leg that hurdles him, but his right as he comes down. Watch undoctored videos of it, it's pretty clear.
Which foot did he stand on?
Quote from: Jim© on July 21, 2026, 04:16:54 PMQuote from: Bassey the warrior on July 21, 2026, 04:00:49 PMWhich foot did he stand on?
Right. But you know that surely?
I have just viewed the footage and it clearly shows Messi jumping over with Spence raising his foot which hits the bottom of Messi's boot, there was no foul.
Quote from: alfie on July 21, 2026, 04:20:46 PMQuote from: Jim© on July 21, 2026, 04:16:54 PMQuote from: Bassey the warrior on July 21, 2026, 04:00:49 PMWhich foot did he stand on?
Right. But you know that surely?
I have just viewed the footage and it clearly shows Messi jumping over with Spence raising his foot which hits the bottom of Messi's boot, there was no foul.
Exactly. If there was then Spence would've surely flagged this to the ref.
Quote from: Bassey the warrior on July 21, 2026, 05:02:05 PMQuote from: alfie on July 21, 2026, 04:20:46 PMQuote from: Jim© on July 21, 2026, 04:16:54 PMQuote from: Bassey the warrior on July 21, 2026, 04:00:49 PMWhich foot did he stand on?
Right. But you know that surely?
I have just viewed the footage and it clearly shows Messi jumping over with Spence raising his foot which hits the bottom of Messi's boot, there was no foul.
Exactly. If there was then Spence would've surely flagged this to the ref.
If he had "hit his boot" then it's way more likely messi would have gone down and been given a penalty. Surely????
Quote from: Jim© on July 21, 2026, 11:24:56 AMQuote from: Bassey the warrior on July 21, 2026, 11:08:55 AMMessi didn't stand on Spece, the image was altered
I didn't mean the still image, I meant in real time, it was clear that he'd trodden on his foot (which he did). It was no more or less than what happened to Otamendi v Spain, but Spence spun, carried on.
I just don't know how anyone feels that the ref had a good game, there's literally millions of posts from all over the world about some of his shocking decisions.
Quote from: Jim© on July 21, 2026, 11:24:56 AMQuote from: Bassey the warrior on July 21, 2026, 11:08:55 AMMessi didn't stand on Spece, the image was altered
I didn't mean the still image, I meant in real time, it was clear that he'd trodden on his foot (which he did). It was no more or less than what happened to Otamendi v Spain, but Spence spun, carried on.
I just don't know how anyone feels that the ref had a good game, there's literally millions of posts from all over the world about some of his shocking decisions.
Quote from: Jim© on July 21, 2026, 11:24:56 AMQuote from: Bassey the warrior on July 21, 2026, 11:08:55 AMMessi didn't stand on Spece, the image was altered
I didn't mean the still image, I meant in real time, it was clear that he'd trodden on his foot (which he did). It was no more or less than what happened to Otamendi v Spain, but Spence spun, carried on.
I just don't know how anyone feels that the ref had a good game, there's literally millions of posts from all over the world about some of his shocking decisions.
Absolutely correct. the ref had a shocker and he knew what he was doing
Quote from: Jim© on July 21, 2026, 05:31:33 PMQuote from: Bassey the warrior on July 21, 2026, 05:02:05 PMQuote from: alfie on July 21, 2026, 04:20:46 PMQuote from: Jim© on July 21, 2026, 04:16:54 PMQuote from: Bassey the warrior on July 21, 2026, 04:00:49 PMWhich foot did he stand on?
Right. But you know that surely?
I have just viewed the footage and it clearly shows Messi jumping over with Spence raising his foot which hits the bottom of Messi's boot, there was no foul.
Exactly. If there was then Spence would've surely flagged this to the ref.
If he had "hit his boot" then it's way more likely messi would have gone down and been given a penalty. Surely????
Someone posted a slow frame clip:
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/PTPD8HAZA9
Sour grapes, poor losers Argentina. Glad they lost. Read somewhere they all as a team turned their backs during the trophy lift. Not sure if that is 'normal'.
Quote from: WindyCity on July 22, 2026, 03:10:49 PMSour grapes, poor losers Argentina. Glad they lost. Read somewhere they all as a team turned their backs during the trophy lift. Not sure if that is 'normal'.
They apparently said they were honouring their supporters, personally I think it was just plain disrespectful, especially after their manager said they know how to lose gracefully.
Quote from: alfie on July 22, 2026, 03:37:44 PMQuote from: WindyCity on July 22, 2026, 03:10:49 PMSour grapes, poor losers Argentina. Glad they lost. Read somewhere they all as a team turned their backs during the trophy lift. Not sure if that is 'normal'.
They apparently said they were honouring their supporters, personally I think it was just plain disrespectful, especially after their manager said they know how to lose gracefully.
Reminds me of when Real Madrid did the same vs Barcelona last season, instigated by Mbappe and against the manager's wishes. That was the end of Xabi Alonso. Real have similar petulant vibes to Argentina.
Quote from: alfie on July 22, 2026, 03:37:44 PMQuote from: WindyCity on July 22, 2026, 03:10:49 PMSour grapes, poor losers Argentina. Glad they lost. Read somewhere they all as a team turned their backs during the trophy lift. Not sure if that is 'normal'.
They apparently said they were honouring their supporters, personally I think it was just plain disrespectful, especially after their manager said they know how to lose gracefully.
They showed their true colours to the world which many of us already knew what they were like.
Bad losers bad winners, graceless undignified no class pond life.
Out of control on and off the pitch.
Their petulance and serious misconduct brought the World Cup into disrepute. All through the competition they were enabled by referees and FIFA und the command of the incorrigible corrupt vile Infantino.
Their threatening and intimidating behaviour which was tolerated by referees who were instructed to ignore definitively left a cloud over the whole World Cup.
Attacking Spanish players directly after the final whistle was the last straw.
Every single team they played complained about their behaviour and the corruption surrounding them, Argentina were scavengers and sadly they have no shame.
They need to be taught a serious lesson and banned from the next World Cup.
As a country they are a stench under the nostrils of the human race.
But will FIFA make the punishment fit the crime. I would like to think so but I doubt it, but they could redeem themselves if they threw the book at them, or better still the
whole library.
This cannot be dismissed
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on July 23, 2026, 07:31:31 AMQuote from: alfie on July 22, 2026, 03:37:44 PMQuote from: WindyCity on July 22, 2026, 03:10:49 PMSour grapes, poor losers Argentina. Glad they lost. Read somewhere they all as a team turned their backs during the trophy lift. Not sure if that is 'normal'.
They apparently said they were honouring their supporters, personally I think it was just plain disrespectful, especially after their manager said they know how to lose gracefully.
They showed their true colours to the world which many of us already knew what they were like.
Bad losers bad winners, graceless undignified no class pond life.
Out of control on and off the pitch.
Their petulance and serious misconduct brought the World Cup into disrepute. All through the competition they were enabled by referees and FIFA und the command of the incorrigible corrupt vile Infantino.
Their threatening and intimidating behaviour which was tolerated by referees who were instructed to ignore definitively left a cloud over the whole World Cup.
Attacking Spanish players directly after the final whistle was the last straw.
Every single team they played complained about their behaviour and the corruption surrounding them, Argentina were scavengers and sadly they have no shame.
They need to be taught a serious lesson and banned from the next World Cup.
As a country they are a stench under the nostrils of the human race.
But will FIFA make the punishment fit the crime. I would like to think so but I doubt it, but they could redeem themselves if they threw the book at them, or better still the
whole library.
This cannot be dismissed
You are absolutely right Woolly, but you can guess FIFA will find a reason to treat them leniently.
To be fair, one lonely (but honorable) Argentina player did face the ceremony: José Manuel "Flaco" Lopez.
Nogood "Honour amongst thieves, isit" Boyo