...found this on the web and had to share it:-
(http://www.talksport.co.uk/sites/default/files/imagecache/ts_magazine_big_picture/GeorgeBestYoung_0.jpg)
The Hammersmith End has changed quite a bit since 1964-65..!
Great picture Ed , he was my hero! It was the wood yard behind the Hammersmith wasn't it?
It was a different game 45 years ago but Keetch was a thug. A dirty player more than happy to hurt opponents.
Doesn't make sense to glorify him yet have contempt for the "not that sort of player" employed by the likes of Wolves and Stoke.
What a load of boll*cks Keetch was hard but fair, You are talking of the Harris Hunter Collins Bremner era, all thugs eh Tony?
By modern standards they were thugs but some had more positive qualities. Certainly Bremner and Hunter. Maybe not Harris and certainly not Keetch.
I know they should only be judged by the standards of their day but for all that Keetch was an intimidator not a footballer.
...it was a different game then Tony, most clubs had their 'Hard' men, and most players knew what to expect to receive and dish out, the laws also were different allowing a different interpretation of punishments.
The game today protects players much more, and so brings to light the type of tackles that are throw-backs to that age, and they are more galling when they go relatively unpunished...
What a lot of tosh (no not that one) is talked about the thugs of yesterdays era. The tough tacklers were usually blimmin good at their jobs. A player could be physical and tackle and it wasn't a foul if you took the player as well. The so called hard men had a place in football and did their jobs well.
Sadly we over protect players now. Keepers are no longer allowed to be touched and the art of a good tackle is now outlawed. But the hard men were no thugs. They were part of the game and had skills others lacked.
Quote from: TonyGilroy on May 23, 2011, 11:37:22 AM
By modern standards they were thugs but some had more positive qualities. Certainly Bremner and Hunter. Maybe not Harris and certainly not Keetch.
I know they should only be judged by the standards of their day but for all that Keetch was an intimidator not a footballer.
Mr Tony, may I ask what positive qualities Billy Bremner had? Getting sent off in the Charity Shield with the famous shirt throwing incident together with Kevin Keegan? In fact, that was his second sending off in 4 days (Kaiserslautern in a friendly) before that. And who doesn't remember Francis Lee and Norman Hunter having a real punch out at the Baseball Ground?
Fine two chaps both of them? I have to disagree. The hardman of the old I respect is actually Tommy Smith from Liverpool of all things. He was a real hard barsteward but played within the rules.
It is a great picture. Let's keep it at that, shall we?
Interesting viewpoints. I agree that many of the hard men were very good at their jobs. They knew how to tackle. (MacKay, Stiles, Hunter, Webb, McLintock etc) Stretching it a bit, Harris, Storey you have to say were a bit thuiggish.
Mr. Finn, I watched Bremner play a lot. He was a fine footballer. Tremendous skill but just a bit of a hot head in the early days. I remember a game at the cottage, Fulham players whacked him several times in the first 15 minutes, he then retalitiated and the crowd started chanting off,off, off. Thug? He was only 5'6", for goodness sake.
As far as Fulham goes, the only thuggish players I can recall are Storey and Mark Pearson. (The long sideburns probably made him look the part) :005:
Great picture by the way.
Quote from: jarv on May 23, 2011, 01:10:45 PM
Interesting viewpoints. I agree that many of the hard men were very good at their jobs. They knew how to tackle. (MacKay, Stiles, Hunter, Webb, McLintock etc) Stretching it a bit, Harris, Storey you have to say were a bit thuiggish.
Mr. Finn, I watched Bremner play a lot. He was a fine footballer. Tremendous skill but just a bit of a hot head in the early days. I remember a game at the cottage, Fulham players whacked him several times in the first 15 minutes, he then retalitiated and the crowd started chanting off,off, off. Thug? He was only 5'6", for goodness sake.
As far as Fulham goes, the only thuggish players I can recall are Storey and Mark Pearson. (The long sideburns probably made him look the part) :005:
Great picture by the way.
We had a few more Mr Jarv. Terry "The Warlock" Hurlock and Michael Brown were as bad as anyone in the league.
Chopper Harris, George Heslop, Ian Ure.........
Quote from: jarv on May 23, 2011, 01:10:45 PM
Interesting viewpoints. I agree that many of the hard men were very good at their jobs. They knew how to tackle. (MacKay, Stiles, Hunter, Webb, McLintock etc) Stretching it a bit, Harris, Storey you have to say were a bit thuiggish.
Mr. Finn, I watched Bremner play a lot. He was a fine footballer. Tremendous skill but just a bit of a hot head in the early days. I remember a game at the cottage, Fulham players whacked him several times in the first 15 minutes, he then retalitiated and the crowd started chanting off,off, off. Thug? He was only 5'6", for goodness sake.
As far as Fulham goes, the only thuggish players I can recall are Storey and Mark Pearson. (The long sideburns probably made him look the part) :005:
Great picture by the way.
Pancho Pearson a thug? No. The nearest I remember him to a punch-up was being on the receiving end of a right hook from Ian St.John vs Liverpool 1966. ( a great 2-0 win, the start of a great revival in that season.)
Love the photo for every reason cited above. Two notes on the play, however.
1. Keetch's cleats are clearly on Best's ankle. Yellow card today at a minimum.
2. I had forgotten that Best played his entire career without shin pads -- often with his stockings loose around his ankles. The guy must have had legs of steel.
3. ... and I hadn't realized that our ground was right in front of the pyramids at the time. I suppose that's what motivated MAF to support Fulham as a lad.
Ron, amazing. I was at that game too. I was standing very close to where it happened. I vaguelly recall, Pearson had clattered st. john a couple fo times and following a foul st. john decked him. Some punch :58: 'enery wold have been proud of it.
By the way, I met St. John once. Went to Glasgow with a couple of scottish mates to watch an international. At breakfast in the hotel, St. John was on the next table (also travelled up for the game). We had a brief chat, he was an absolute gentleman. I didn't think it appropriate to bring up the Pearson incident. :005:
Quote from: jarv on May 23, 2011, 02:10:01 PM
Ron, amazing. I was at that game too. I was standing very close to where it happened. I vaguelly recall, Pearson had clattered st. john a couple fo times and following a foul st. john decked him. Some punch :58: 'enery wold have been proud of it.
By the way, I met St. John once. Went to Glasgow with a couple of scottish mates to watch an international. At breakfast in the hotel, St. John was on the next table (also travelled up for the game). We had a brief chat, he was an absolute gentleman. I didn't think it appropriate to bring up the Pearson incident. :005:
Mr Jarv,
I never met St John, but I heard from a good mate of mine who met him later in life that he was an absolute gent as well.
...I have the DVD (of the video) of Ian St. John taking a swing at Mark (Pancho) Pearson, and as spectacular as it looked, Pearson should have won an award for acting, he went down like the proverbial sack of spuds, but contact was minimal (if at all), helped us to win 2 - 0 though...
http://dai.ly/g78aT8 (http://dai.ly/g78aT8)
<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="360" src="http://www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x1kvrx_ian-st-john-punches-an-opponent_sport"></iframe>
<a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1kvrx_ian-st-john-punches-an-opponent_sport" target="_blank">Ian St John punches an opponent</a>
by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/redhalfofmerseyside" target="_blank">redhalfofmerseyside</a>
I often wonder if I went to the same matches as some other people. In my view ER has it right in that Bobby was hard but fair.
I find it distasteful to the memory of Bobby Keetch that anyone should have considered him a thug. As Ed says, it was a different game in those days and all that Keetch did was to ensure that his opponents knew he was around.
He didn't stand around marvelling at his opponent's ball skills and thinking what a great player he was up against – he got on with the job that Fulham paid him to do and I for one was glad that he was playing for us.
Bobby Keetch rocked. :Sparkyticus:
Quote from: jarv on May 23, 2011, 02:10:01 PM
Ron, amazing. I was at that game too. I was standing very close to where it happened. I vaguelly recall, Pearson had clattered st. john a couple fo times and following a foul st. john decked him. Some punch :58: 'enery wold have been proud of it.
By the way, I met St. John once. Went to Glasgow with a couple of scottish mates to watch an international. At breakfast in the hotel, St. John was on the next table (also travelled up for the game). We had a brief chat, he was an absolute gentleman. I didn't think it appropriate to bring up the Pearson incident. :005:
Jarv, we may have been rubbing shoulders! The incident was right in front of me, just a few yards in from the touchline in front of the Riverside Terrace, about a third of the pitch from the Hammersmith End. The pictures brought it all back.....Pearson had indeed been paying close attention to St John.....but what about St John's chopping tackle from behind which started the hair pulling? A straight red today in itself.