Just seen this on TIFF. Is Fulham our club anymore?
Dear Ashwater and Fulham supporter,
I am sure that you are all well aware that we haven't been in touch for a while as we have been busy trying to finalise our future work with Fulham FC. We apologise for the fact that we have been unable to give any of you a clear answer as to what books are coming next. Following on from our last mail, our proposed meeting with Fulham Retail in the autumn of 2010 failed to materialise, despite giving them an increased range of potential book titles following further suggestions from your good selves. Around that same time, we were informed that any 'supplier' dealing with Fulham Retail going forward would have to be on a 'licensed partner' basis. We had a meeting in November with the licensing body Fulham had chosen, and before Christmas 2010 gave them a draft proposal for working under licence with the club. The proposal was not acknowledged. Since the beginning of 2011 we have been trying to further this proposal and expedite a solution.
It is important to point out that there was no brief supplied by the club to form the basis of any proposal response - no ideas, no titles, no pointers to structure or content, price points, delivery dates and importantly how the club would stock and promote such works, so in our view we were proposing on virtually fresh air. It was important that the proposal was right as Ashwater would have had to put up a financial bond to secure the licence. This has dragged on for some months. At the recent Arsenal home game there was an assurance given that nothing had been presented or decided, but just three days later we received news that it was all done and dusted and that the Ashwater proposal was not being taken forward.
Based on seemingly no brief at all, another supplier has, 'offered the club a better all-round package.' Having pressed the agency for more information, the sales-speak response was what you might realistically expect from this arm of 'Brand FFC': 'channels of distribution', 'Fulham FC product is available in the general retail environment', 'increasing the Club's brand exposure', 'relationships in the sports publishing market' and 'exploit the Fulham FC titles' etc, etc. All well and good, we have no issues with any of that and to be fair the club can do exactly as it wishes. It's just a shame that it took one day short of a whole year for Ashwater to get absolutely nowhere.
We still feel that the vast majority of any 'product' will be sold via the two club shops and that there aren't a massive number of other outlets that will take a significant number of Fulham books; that has been our experience over several years, and we do supply to a number of on-line stores and other retailers. So, we cannot tell you who are producing the books going forward, who the author(s) is/are or what the forthcoming titles are. Our fear is that there might be a series of bland or recent 'history' books, the majority of which (text and pictures wise) seasoned supporters like yourselves may well have seen and read before. We will be glad to be proven wrong.
We have asked both the club and the agency why it was necessary to have just one (we presume) licensee. Certainly 'Brand FFC' can go off selling to the world, but we strongly feel that there is still an important niche place for the detailed, historical, quirky and meticulous books that we produce and you all seem to demand. To date we have not had a reply from either party.
Our Ashwater books have been profitable, and whilst much of it is undoubtedly a labour of love, there is a real question mark as to whether the profit generated equates to the number of hours of hard work put in. Fulham FC appear to now have a significant customer mailing and e-mailing database coupled with able marketing resources and to be honest we needed to integrate with that infrastructure to raise the fans' awareness of Ashwater and to increase our number of sales to continue to make this enterprise worthwhile.
We needed Fulham FC to get behind and support us; this is now not going to happen. We are at a loss to explain why the club seemingly wants to ostracise Ashwater. It is very sad when you consider that 2011 is a special year, as it is exactly fifty (50) years since Ken took his first picture of the Maestro on the Cottage pitch. Considering that KC photographed Fulham over five different decades, it seems a shame that his pictures will not adorn the club shops again.
The much-loved and missed Peter Thomson was mid-way through his next Ashwater book More Golden Years; a follow on from Ken's first book in 1993. Although it's early days, we would like to complete this. Despite the eulogies printed in the club programme following Peter's passing, if it comes out under the Ashwater banner, it is doubtful whether the club will stock it. Despite the lack of direction afforded by our club over the last year, Ashwater continued to write to a degree in 2010, and have Tales from the Riverbank Volume 3 complete and re-edited (1969–70 and 1970–71, Barry Lloyd's promotion season), whilst volume 4 (1971–72 and 1972–73, arrival of Alec Stock) is progressing well. Keegan's Kingdom (celebration of the 1999 Champions side) is also almost complete in terms of text. 40 years of Fulham in Colour in almost complete in terms of pictures as is Fulham – behind the scenes. Ken is also working on another kind of Fulham Photos book, with many more previously unseen pictures. However, there seems little point in completing any of these works if the titles and Ashwater as an organisation do not find favour within the club.
Many of you have expressed ideas about by-passing the club shops completely and also subscription-based books, but all of this does rely on 'increasing awareness' and we have found leaflet distribution at the ground not particularly rewarding. At this moment in time, we do not believe the club will sell us its mailing list, especially as it may now compete for sales with the selected licensee. We would listen to any brainwaves emanating from you regarding other means of mass marketing and raising awareness!
In the end, the club has, for now, drained the spirit from us. Therefore we have taken the decision this week to cease production of further Fulham books. We are sure from the calls, e-mails and letters we get weekly that this decision will anger and upset many of the 2,000 names this e-mail is going to. But to be honest we have had nothing from the club in the way of positive input or encouraging 'signals'. There also seems little point in any of you contacting the club about it, as we have no idea who made the decision regarding Ashwater Press, and with the burgeoning departmental structure at Fulham, even we are not sure who to talk to these days. We have expressed these sentiments to club director and long-term Fulham supporter Dennis Turner. If our spirit eventually re-asserts itself, we will let you know.
We would like to formally thank you all for the magnificent support you have given to us over the years, and we are proud of the many Fulham books we have produced.
Signing Off............................
Ken Coton and Martin Plumb.
I am truly shocked and appalled by this news.
I dearly hope that this is not the end for Ashwater.
No Mr Peabody,
Fulham is no longer our club.
It belongs to Sky and fans doesn't count anymore.
This is truly outrageous.
What disgusts me the most is that when I was in the club shop the other day they had found space for a biography about Michael Jackson and the pitfalls (sic) darker side of fame.
An insult to those who actually give a damn about Fulham but more so to Ashwater and those that have devoted so much time to our unique club.
My only suggestion would be a petition.
While I share the frustration, I don't share the shock. Fuham have never been very bright when it comes to selling itself. Nowadays even less so. There can be no logical reason why a company who have consistantly produced quality products should be treated this way. But the times are simply changing.
Fans are flogged rubbish. tradition is forgotten, the past never existed. It is almost as if the club are too big to care. Too many cooks me thinks. In the short term that may be fine. But in the long term, the history, the stories, the memories are all that is left. Without them you have a husk of a company, not the heart of a club.
Next time a disaster approaches like merges with other grounds and clubs. Those that care will have been forgotten. Those that don't will feel very lonely.
Quote from: Jimpav on July 06, 2011, 12:25:09 PM
My only suggestion would be a petition.
As Ashwater says, it wouldn't help. We will just be told to go to the dogtrack if we don't like it. :035:
It is shocking and something that the club should be ashamed of. Sadly they won't be.
I don't know, obviously, what Ashwater's break even figure is on a book but I would have thought that between this board, TIFF and their existing mailing list they should have access to most potential buyers.
They say they aren't interested in proceeding on a subscription basis but I for one would pay up front for a book if they announced that they had enough subscribers and would proceed if a certain number paid in advance.
absolutly disgusting how they can do this and promote all the laughing stock MJ crap. Shame there seems to be very little we cna do about it
perhaps they should write a book about Michael Jackson :dead horse:
they could have the title
"Jackson the only Fulham Star, and if you don't agree..."
There is always the 'grass-roots' response, as mentioned, petitions do bugger-all when it comes to corporate Fulham.
Thus, it might be helpful if we look to assisting the mailing list by providing not only our own, but also raise awareness via the Social Networking outlets (FaceBook, Google+, LinkedIn, etc), and swamp other MBs, especially the offal, with book adverts for Ashwater Press publications.
Also bring it into the limelight with the local press, by whatever means.
I know I don't have to remind members in this place that AP has been a stalwart of providing accurate, enjoyable and darn good reading of Fulham History for many a year, and Kens pictures are savored by many generations of fans alike.
In addition, perhaps the boycott of purchasing written materials only from the official outlets might just bring to the clubs attention that they need Ashwater as much as Ashwater needs them when it comes to such sales, along with each writing a letter to the club asking them why Ashwater was dropped. Then, just perhaps, they might take some notice of the true fans in addition to the 'corporate Fulham' voice.
They should set up a stall outside both the club shops on matchdays and sell the books in the faces of the club.
I have just sent an e-mail to the club asking for an explanation. However, me on my own will do nothing so come on people, get onto the offal look for 'contact us' and get them e-mails in.
Quote from: Peabody on July 06, 2011, 12:48:07 PM
I have just sent an e-mail to the club asking for an explanation. However, me on my own will do nothing so come on people, get onto the offal look for 'contact us' and get them e-mails in.
You will be told that if you don't like it you can go and support Chelsea :012:
Yes, I got an email from Ashwater Press about an hour ago, and have just finished reading it. I am not surprised that the Club has decided to use another supplier - a decision presumably made purely on a business level. But to treat long-standing supporters in this way is really not on. It seems that they have made things deliberately awkward for Ken and Martin. There are good, decent ways of dropping a supplier and bad, thoughtless ways of doing it.
It does strike me though that Ashwater Press already have a decent following (database of 2000 emails), and could really make progress without The Club's involvement. I am not aware of numbers, but they were producing books back in the dark days so I can't imagine that they shifted more than a couple of thousand in those days (when gates averaged about 6k). Although they may miss out on the tourist trade, they can surely add to that database. They could get names from these forums, they could take out an advert in Fultime or the Programme, they could hand out leaflets at matches etc. I really hope that they get some wind back into their sails, because they have the foundation of a great business there.
What is pretty certain, is that if Mo was to leave us in, say, 5 years and the Club drop down a level or two, Fulham would be desparate for these 'loyal' fans to support them, despite treating them so poorly on this occasion.
What has the club been saying about this? Obviously it is the version of Ashwater Press and they are free to interpret events as they want (not claiming they are liars or something). I would like to hear the story from the club's side before making up my mind.
Quote from: sipwell on July 06, 2011, 01:44:13 PM
What has the club been saying about this? Obviously it is the version of Ashwater Press and they are free to interpret events as they want (not claiming they are liars or something). I would like to hear the story from the club's side before making up my mind.
from the Ashwaterpress email, it appears that the club aren't saying anything, and thats part of the problem if the club won't tell Ashwater what they need to do to enable their books to be sold in the club shop how can they comply?
however true Fulham fans don't want books about the club, they only want Michael Jackson
tatt memorabilia
Quote from: WhiteJC on July 06, 2011, 04:20:13 PM
Quote from: sipwell on July 06, 2011, 01:44:13 PM
What has the club been saying about this? Obviously it is the version of Ashwater Press and they are free to interpret events as they want (not claiming they are liars or something). I would like to hear the story from the club's side before making up my mind.
from the Ashwaterpress email, it appears that the club aren't saying anything, and thats part of the problem if the club won't tell Ashwater what they need to do to enable their books to be sold in the club shop how can they comply?
however true Fulham fans don't want books about the club, they only want Michael Jackson tatt memorabilia
Yes, but as it is business here, we don't anything about the percentage which goes to Fulham, the conditions of a potential contract, etc. etc. Say - and I am far from claiming this - that Ashwater wants to retain 80 % of the sales of the book whereas Fulham only gets 20 % % and an obligation to put the books in the shop, that might not be interesting for the club...
Quote from: sipwell on July 06, 2011, 04:24:49 PM
Quote from: WhiteJC on July 06, 2011, 04:20:13 PM
Quote from: sipwell on July 06, 2011, 01:44:13 PM
What has the club been saying about this? Obviously it is the version of Ashwater Press and they are free to interpret events as they want (not claiming they are liars or something). I would like to hear the story from the club's side before making up my mind.
from the Ashwaterpress email, it appears that the club aren't saying anything, and thats part of the problem if the club won't tell Ashwater what they need to do to enable their books to be sold in the club shop how can they comply?
however true Fulham fans don't want books about the club, they only want Michael Jackson tatt memorabilia
Yes, but as it is business here, we don't anything about the percentage which goes to Fulham, the conditions of a potential contract, etc. etc. Say - and I am far from claiming this - that Ashwater wants to retain 80 % of the sales of the book whereas Fulham only gets 20 % % and an obligation to put the books in the shop, that might not be interesting for the club...
Lets assume you are correct Mr Sipwell.
20% of something is a lot better than 100% of nothing
I'd have thought that selling those books at not much above cost would be in the club's interest......those new fans joining us now are likely to be hungry for history and nostalgia to give them a sense of belonging....because Fulham is the kind of club that attracts people like that. The glory seekers have plenty of tat to fuel their "glory now" requirements with the top 4. FFC should be better than that.
...the problem for Ashwater Press is that they don't have an outlet in the Putney / Hammersmith region to sell their books. They do send books out, but the books are heavy and postal costs these days are ridiculous; so for Ashwater Press to continue making books the Fulham fans actually want they need such an outlet (or outlets) so that they make enough money to publish more books. Believe me Ken and Martin make little money out of their books, what they do is very much altruistic in putting their combined memories and possessions on show for the future Fulham fans.
Ideally somewhere like the Bricklayers Arms or the Coat & Badge or the Old Suffolk Punch or local newsagents that could sell their books on match days to Fulham fans - I'm sure as hell I would advertise their places of business on here if they did, the upturn in trade would be mutually beneficial. There is the shop near the tube station next to the Eight Bells that sells their books but that is tiny and not everyone could detour there.
Any ideas..?
Quote from: LBNo11 on July 06, 2011, 08:57:48 PM
...the problem for Ashwater Press is that they don't have an outlet in the Putney / Hammersmith region to sell their books. They do send books out, but the books are heavy and postal costs these days are ridiculous; so for Ashwater Press to continue making books the Fulham fans actually want they need such an outlet (or outlets) so that they make enough money to publish more books. Believe me Ken and Martin make little money out of their books, what they do is very much altruistic in putting their combined memories and possessions on show for the future Fulham fans.
Ideally somewhere like the Bricklayers Arms or the Coat & Badge or the Old Suffolk Punch or local newsagents that could sell their books on match days to Fulham fans - I'm sure as hell I would advertise their places of business on here if they did, the upturn in trade would be mutually beneficial. There is the shop near the tube station next to the Eight Bells that sells their books but that is tiny and not everyone could detour there.
Any ideas..?
I suggest try social networking sites.
I had a guy in my office last week showing me lots of research on how outreach increases by 10% if you get your stuff on twitter. Now I don't know if that is 100% correct for sure but the data I saw was rather convincing. Enough for me to consider using that as an additional distribution channel and my company doesn't even do any goods but consulting services.
At the end of the day, the Fulham shop is just another distribution channel, and a very in-effective one on top. There are other and better ways. That does not stop my blood to boil over the fact that these gents are being shafted by the club
Definitely worth everyone writing to or emailing the club. Probably attention Sarah Brookes. Getting their books in the club shop would massively increase their potential sales, anywhere else would not pick up the casual buyer.
Quote from: Chopper on July 06, 2011, 09:12:33 PM
Definitely worth everyone writing to or emailing the club. Probably attention Sarah Brookes. Getting their books in the club shop would massively increase their potential sales, anywhere else would not pick up the casual buyer.
Don't underestimate the power of the internet. Youll be surprised. Twitter is now worth 7 billion USD.
And Sarah Brookes should pay notice too because that is her job, and I hope not for long.
Quote from: sipwell on July 06, 2011, 04:24:49 PM
Quote from: WhiteJC on July 06, 2011, 04:20:13 PM
Quote from: sipwell on July 06, 2011, 01:44:13 PM
What has the club been saying about this? Obviously it is the version of Ashwater Press and they are free to interpret events as they want (not claiming they are liars or something). I would like to hear the story from the club's side before making up my mind.
from the Ashwaterpress email, it appears that the club aren't saying anything, and thats part of the problem if the club won't tell Ashwater what they need to do to enable their books to be sold in the club shop how can they comply?
however true Fulham fans don't want books about the club, they only want Michael Jackson tatt memorabilia
Yes, but as it is business here, we don't anything about the percentage which goes to Fulham, the conditions of a potential contract, etc. etc. Say - and I am far from claiming this - that Ashwater wants to retain 80 % of the sales of the book whereas Fulham only gets 20 % % and an obligation to put the books in the shop, that might not be interesting for the club...
Sipwell,
You are perfectly correct in what you say, though such conditions require some level of negotiation and, from the one-sided communique we have seen thus far, unless Fulham respond to the initial proposal by Ashwater, then there are no negotiations as such, as would be normal business-like.
As you rightly point out, we have one side of the discussion, though without Fulham providing any response that we know of, it's a little difficult not to fall on the side of Ashwater.
Along with others from this place, I too have written to the club today asking them to verify the information and appealing on behalf of Ashwater Press for them to be considered a trading partner. I await any response, which the club are usually good at, as others do.
The club has responded to my email requesting further information.
The reply was very informative and basically asked that before making judgements on the quality of the material being considered by Derby Books, that fans wait and see what does appear. The reasons for going with Derby Books was for commercial value. They are fully aware that some fans are not happy and will respond if you ask.
Personally I would still look to whether Ashwater can do a deal with Derby Books and use them as the conduit to the Fulham shops.
Received from FFC. Judge for yourselves
Thanks for your email Bill
To clarify our position, last Autumn we did begin a tender process for official publications and my understanding is that our Retail General Manager met with Ashwater at the time, specifically to discuss this. After this process had run its course, we ultimately reached an agreement with Derby Books. As Ken & Martin state in their email, all this was finalised in the days that followed the closing match of the 10/11 season against Arsenal.
I'm afraid I can't reveal the specifics of the contract that we've entered into. Sufficed to say, however, for a whole host of reasons we feel that the Derby Books offer represents the best option available to us at this time. In spite of this, I do acknowledge that there remains a strong niche following for the Ashwater publications and it certainly isn't our intention to undermine the fine work that they have done.
The license we have entered into affords Derby Books the right to stock all the titles in our official range. To this end, there are now a number of exciting projects in development. We are utilising a rich variety of sources and we hope that our fans will be even-handed enough to wait and see the range for themselves before drawing any conclusions as to its quality. We have every confidence that these publications will grow to represent a successful range that will be enjoyed by the vast majority of our fans.
Over the years we have made every effort to support Ashwater and their titles. In the last year we did also agree to stock a further two publications and while there is no doubting the meticulous level of research and effort that went into these books, it's fair to say that they didn't sell in high volumes at our stores. There were other reasons why it wouldn't have been prudent of us to stock their Haynes title, although I do understand that this went on to sell well through other outlets.
When I first started here at the Club (which was midway through the 2007/08 season) we used to receive a steady stream of correspondence from fans who had significant concerns over the Club's retail operation. It's fair to say that in the period since we have taken major steps to address this, and a large amount of investment has been made to enhance our stores, our suppliers, our product range and our service. We do carefully monitor feedback and from all that we can discern the overall perception of our retail offer has vastly improved. This has certainly been reflected in sales, and we will continue to strive to produce a high quality range that can be enjoyed by everyone with an interest and passion for our Club.
We do, of course, wish Ashwater every success with their future endeavours.
Kind regards
Tommy Guthrie
Supporter Relations Manager
I don't understand this bit...
Quote
The license we have entered into affords Derby Books the right to stock all the titles in our official range. To this end, there are now a number of exciting projects in development. We are utilising a rich variety of sources and we hope that our fans will be even-handed enough to wait and see the range for themselves before drawing any conclusions as to its quality. We have every confidence that these publications will grow to represent a successful range that will be enjoyed by the vast majority of our fans.
are we (the club) selling Derby books, or are Derby books selling Fulham products?
are the club "writing" their own books?
Quote from: WhiteJC on July 07, 2011, 04:03:07 PM
I don't understand this bit...
Quote
The license we have entered into affords Derby Books the right to stock all the titles in our official range. To this end, there are now a number of exciting projects in development. We are utilising a rich variety of sources and we hope that our fans will be even-handed enough to wait and see the range for themselves before drawing any conclusions as to its quality. We have every confidence that these publications will grow to represent a successful range that will be enjoyed by the vast majority of our fans.
are we (the club) selling Derby books, or are Derby books selling Fulham products?
are the club "writing" their own books?
It looks like DB Publishing will be publishing existing Fulham titles as well as creating new titles. I guess FFC will provide the words and pictures and DB will do the rest.
I think this would be a good opportunity for Ken Coton to withdraw use of any of his images from the club. There must be tonnes of club products which have used his pictures, he should pull the plug on them and get them to take their own pictures of Johnny Haynes from back in the day...
Quote from: The Equalizer on July 07, 2011, 04:07:01 PM
Quote from: WhiteJC on July 07, 2011, 04:03:07 PM
I don't understand this bit...
Quote
The license we have entered into affords Derby Books the right to stock all the titles in our official range. To this end, there are now a number of exciting projects in development. We are utilising a rich variety of sources and we hope that our fans will be even-handed enough to wait and see the range for themselves before drawing any conclusions as to its quality. We have every confidence that these publications will grow to represent a successful range that will be enjoyed by the vast majority of our fans.
are we (the club) selling Derby books, or are Derby books selling Fulham products?
are the club "writing" their own books?
It looks like DB Publishing will be publishing existing Fulham titles as well as creating new titles. I guess FFC will provide the words and pictures and DB will do the rest.
I think this would be a good opportunity for Ken Coton to withdraw use of any of his images from the club. There must be tonnes of club products which have used his pictures, he should pull the plug on them and get them to take their own pictures of Johnny Haynes from back in the day...
Depends on who owns the copyright. If Fulham employed Ken to take photos then they belong to Fulham
Quote from: CorkedHat on July 07, 2011, 04:14:41 PM
Quote from: The Equalizer on July 07, 2011, 04:07:01 PM
Quote from: WhiteJC on July 07, 2011, 04:03:07 PM
I don't understand this bit...
Quote
The license we have entered into affords Derby Books the right to stock all the titles in our official range. To this end, there are now a number of exciting projects in development. We are utilising a rich variety of sources and we hope that our fans will be even-handed enough to wait and see the range for themselves before drawing any conclusions as to its quality. We have every confidence that these publications will grow to represent a successful range that will be enjoyed by the vast majority of our fans.
are we (the club) selling Derby books, or are Derby books selling Fulham products?
are the club "writing" their own books?
It looks like DB Publishing will be publishing existing Fulham titles as well as creating new titles. I guess FFC will provide the words and pictures and DB will do the rest.
I think this would be a good opportunity for Ken Coton to withdraw use of any of his images from the club. There must be tonnes of club products which have used his pictures, he should pull the plug on them and get them to take their own pictures of Johnny Haynes from back in the day...
Depends on who owns the copyright. If Fulham employed Ken to take photos then they belong to Fulham
Indeed mate, but based on the amount of publications that Ashwater have done with his pictures, I'm sure that the club would have used some of those. In this instance I'd assume that Ken owns the copyright on them otherwise he'll be licensing them from the club. Which would curtail the end of Ashwater anyway.
Quote from: Lighthouse on July 06, 2011, 12:26:22 PM
While I share the frustration, I don't share the shock. Fuham have never been very bright when it comes to selling itself. Nowadays even less so. There can be no logical reason why a company who have consistantly produced quality products should be treated this way. But the times are simply changing.
Fans are flogged rubbish. tradition is forgotten, the past never existed. It is almost as if the club are too big to care. Too many cooks me thinks. In the short term that may be fine. But in the long term, the history, the stories, the memories are all that is left. Without them you have a husk of a company, not the heart of a club.
Next time a disaster approaches like merges with other grounds and clubs. Those that care will have been forgotten. Those that don't will feel very lonely.
I totally agree, well said.
Quote from: The Equalizer on July 07, 2011, 04:27:14 PM
Quote from: CorkedHat on July 07, 2011, 04:14:41 PM
Depends on who owns the copyright. If Fulham employed Ken to take photos then they belong to Fulham
Indeed mate, but based on the amount of publications that Ashwater have done with his pictures, I'm sure that the club would have used some of those. In this instance I'd assume that Ken owns the copyright on them otherwise he'll be licensing them from the club. Which would curtail the end of Ashwater anyway.
Interesting question. Perhaps Ken was contracted by the club the to take pictures, of which the club paid for the rights to use them, though Ken maintains the copyright. In that sense, then the club might well be able to use and reuse those they have as well as Ashwater Press.
Either way, it is a sad day for all parties (the club, Ashwater Press and the fans) alike that it has come down to this. Hopefully Ken & Co will be able to survive with the lack of 'official' outlets as the publications are, perhaps, the most informative about Fulham FC we will ever see. I know that I continually refer to them for facts and figures about the club.
The email Peabody presented is the same as was sent to me by way of reply, so it looks like they have had more than the odd request for information on this issue.
...A well written reply by Tommy who is a decent employee, it won't go into detail as expected, but this is the sentence that I would like explained "There were other reasons why it wouldn't have been prudent of us to stock their Haynes title, although I do understand that this went on to sell well through other outlets".
Hopefully it has nothing to do with the recently appointed director Dennis Turner trying to write a book about Johnny Haynes with the club's approval, or their view that in Ken and Martins' book that a family member had not been consulted. Still we will never know the truth...
...would anybody who has written to the club regarding this matter please send me a copy of your letter, either via a pm or e-mail - thank you...
LB I've emailed you a copy of my letter.
Quote from: Chopper on July 15, 2011, 11:18:35 AM
LB I've emailed you a copy of my letter.
...got it last night, thanks - and thank you Peabody, any more would be appreciated - thanks in anticipation...