Friends of Fulham

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/09/07/3356326/revealed-how-liverpools-pursuit-of-dempsey-prompted-his (http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/09/07/3356326/revealed-how-liverpools-pursuit-of-dempsey-prompted-his)

SPECIAL REPORT
By Wayne Veysey | Chief Correspondent

When Tottenham provided Clint Dempsey with a timely exit from Fulham on deadline day, it did more than lay bare the power struggle between Brendan Rodgers and the Liverpool hierarchy.

It also provided a full stop to a fraught final chapter of Dempsey's five-and-a-half years in west London, one which threatened to derail not just his early season but his professional career.

Goal.com can reveal in detail the depth of the hostility between the US international and his employers during a fraught two-month period, featuring bust-ups with his manager, an exile from the club, an official Premier League complaint and a strong-armed intervention from a millionaire owner.

Liverpool had laid down a marker by expressing their interest in buying Dempsey at the end of last season, even before Brendan Rodgers was appointed manager on June 1.

There was nothing official or 'concrete', in the parlance of football executives, but it was clear to Fulham over early summer that the Merseysiders were on the trail of the scorer of 23 goals last season.

So convinced was Dempsey - regarded as a human dynamo for his capacity to play in every game for club and country - that he was joining Liverpool that there was a seismic shift in his attitude to the club he joined in January 2007.

Fulham were informed he would be reporting late for pre-season training, which began in the first week of July. In the event, he was four days later than originally scheduled.

This breach of contract was reluctantly accepted by the club and manager Martin Jol, partly because they assumed a formal bid for the player from Liverpool was imminent.

It was not. There were informal discussions with the Merseysiders about a player-exchange for Dempsey – with Charlie Adam and Stewart Downing among the names that cropped up – but no offer, the first hint that the Anfield purse strings were being tightly squeezed.

Fulham, knowing how difficult it would be to replace Dempsey's goals and impact in the final third, held out an olive branch by offering the attacking midfielder an improved three-year contract with the option of a fourth year. It was immediately rejected by the player who, at 29 and on the back of the best season of his professional career, felt it was the last opportunity he would get to sign for a Champions League calibre club.

The saga was brought into the public domain following an embarrassing error on July 18 by a website belonging to Fenway Sports Group, which published a link claiming that Dempsey was a Liverpool player.   

The story was hastily removed but Rodgers addressed the subject in an interview the same day.

"Clint is a player we've inquired about, it is as simple as that," Rodgers said. "Ian Ayre, our managing director, has spoken with the club to see what the position is. That is where we're at. He's a very talented player but we don't like to talk about other clubs' players."

Rodgers assumed he was smoothing over a delicate situation but it prompted an angry response from Fulham. As revealed by Goal.com last month, the Londoners made an official complaint to the Premier League, claiming that Rodgers had broken the governing body's rules by effectively 'tapping up' the American.

Meanwhile, the discord behind the scenes was growing. Three days before Fulham were due to fly to Switzerland for a week-long pre-season training camp that began on July 30, a confrontation occured between Dempsey and Jol at Fulham's Motspur Park headquarters which ended up with the midfielder not going on the trip.

Jol claimed Dempsey refused to play, while the player told friends his manager told him he would not be travelling. What is not disputed is that, as explained by Goal.com, the pair exchanged strong words. In the words of one observer, they even "squared up" at one stage.

Dempsey made it clear that he wanted to quit the club for Liverpool and would do whatever was necessary to force a move. In turn, the Dutchman said the attacking midfielder would not be sold unless Fulham's valuation was met.

"Clint himself told everyone he was going to Liverpool so we really thought there was quite a firm interest in him" - Martin Jol


While Fulham's first-team squad was being put through their paces at an Alpine resort, Dempsey trained with the youth team. It proved to be only a temporary sticking plaster to what was becoming a gaping wound.

Wary that Dempsey's unhappiness would spread to impressionable youngsters who looked up to him, the player was ordered to train on his own away from both the senior and development squads.

With the new Premier League season on the horizon, still no bid arrived from Anfield. However, there was no prospect of Dempsey being involved in the curtain-raiser against Norwich City on August 18.

Jol made this abundantly clear at his pre-match press conference by going public with Fulham's side of the story for the first time.

In language that went beyond even Andre Villas-Boas' simultaneous strongly-worded bulletins on Luka Modric's Tottenham exit strategy, Jol said of Dempsey: "He is not committed to the club. He wants to leave. I would like to keep him, but I think it's impossible. It's a sad and an almost embarrassing situation. Clint himself told everyone he was going to Liverpool so we really thought there was quite a firm interest in him."

Dempsey responded by using his Twitter account to make clear his dissatisfaction at Jol's comments.  "There are two sides to the story," Dempsey wrote. "The truth will come out soon." The relationship between player and club was now almost irreparable.

By this time, Aston Villa and Everton had also made enquiries about the American but Liverpool, who were still trying to get Andy Carroll off the Anfield wage bill, had not followed up their own interest with a formal bid.

It is understood this prompted a series of "emotional" responses from Dempsey towards senior Fulham figures as his dream move stagnated, although the player was aware that other clubs were on his trail.

Recognising the unrest he was creating, Fulham acted decisively. It can be revealed that 10 days before the end of the window the club went to the extreme measure of banning Dempsey from the training ground and ordering him to train on his own at a local sports ground.

Mohamed Al-Fayed is generally a 'hands-off' owner and chairman, leaving the day-to-day running of the club to chief executive Alistair Mackintosh.

But he felt that Dempsey was treating the club with disdain, behaviour that he took personally. Al-Fayed vowed that the American would not be granted a simple passage out of the club, even if it meant Fulham failing to off-load an unhappy player who could leave for nothing when his contract expired in 2013. 


TOTTENHAM LATEST
11/2   Spurs are 11/2 to draw 1-1 with Reading with bet365 Conversations with Liverpool over a player-exchange for Dempsey continued in the middle of last week. Jordan Henderson and a number of junior Anfield squad players were discussed but an agreement could not be reached.

Villa sensed a late opportunity to end the rift between Dempsey and Fulham by making a bid less than 24 hours before the end of the window.

The offer, believed to be a £5m down payment supplemented by £2m in add-ons, was accepted by the Cottagers. Dempsey, however, rejected the move.

Positions were entrenched. With space on the wage bill freed up by Carroll's loan to West Ham, Liverpool finally made a formal bid for Dempsey last Friday afternoon but offered an initial instalment of only £3m.

As the clock ticked down, Fulham refused to budge on their valuation for Dempsey. As far as the club was concerned, there was no route back to the first team for the club's most prolific player.

There was even talk of an autumn loan to a Championship club. In the words of one insider: "the chairman wanted to teach him a lesson".

With Dempsey on the brink and Liverpool and Fulham locked in stalemate, Tottenham came to the rescue just as the sun was beginning to set on deadline day.

Spurs' hopes of replacing Rafael van der Vaart with Joao Moutinho were hanging by a thread and Daniel Levy made his now customary eleventh hour move to beef up the squad.

Levy matched Villa's offer, Dempsey leapt at the opportunity to join a Champions League calibre club and a car was dispatched to take him to Spurs Lodge and put pen to paper.

Finally, the summer's longest transfer saga was over. Tottenham had found a solution to their midfield hole, Fulham's tough stance had been financially vindicated and Dempsey had finally got a move, albeit not to his first choice club. For Liverpool, however, the problems were only beginning.

...an interesting chronological summary of events minus sensationalism.

I don't want to start a thread that is considered anti-American, especially about my former favourite player, but as Dempsey said,  "There are two sides to the story," and "The truth will come out soon."

The silence is deafening...

Awful way for Clint to treat us,his actions have killed off any remaining good will toward him.

Moral of the story...don't tick off uncle Mo

Does sound plausible, but think how quick we are to diss goal.com about transfer rumours during the window.

Moral:  bottom line--it's a business.  Don't let the emotions take over.

What isn't revealed, and possibly not even known, is what went on between Dempsey and/or his agent  and the Fenway people during the time he was in the USA. His late return, the publication of the report of his transfer to Liverpool and his claims that he was going there, all seem to suggest that there was behind the scenes activity at that time.

It really beggars belief that these players, who are paid more in a month than senior executives in many companies earn in a year, can have so little respect for their employers.

Ah, it's goal.com so you know it's true   090.gif

I agree that Clint could perhaps have handled the situation better but I really don't hold any animosity towards him.

I can see that this really was his last chance to get a move to a "big" club and having provided us with 5 and a half years of exceptional service perhaps deserved to be treated in a slightly more adult fashion by the club (though it is nice to see us not get railroaded into a deal we didn't want, so plus points for the way we've dealt with Liverpool).

I wonder if this is partly Jol's personality. You're either with him or against him and he's not afraid to butt heads.

That said I think Clint might have got his move to Liverpool had he just towed the line a little longer and let his agent get on with the transfer shenanigans.

Sad way to end his career with us but Clint will remain a Fulham legend for me and I'll be proud to give him a warm reception if he plays against us.

'Regarded as a human dynamo'? What planet are these yanks on? Ridiculous.

There was more dicussion about Demps. this week on American tv. Even the English pundits are saying stupid things about it all. I don't bother listening to it any more. Their insults towards Fulham "not being high calibre enough" are cr@p. I think it was Warren Barton, idiot!

Thank you Mr. Snibbo. imo, it smacks of 'I fought the law and the law won'.

We had the best out of him. He will never score 23 goals in a season again. He will be a bit part player for Spurs & will soon be back in MLS. He was ill advised & this will haunt him for ever more. Let this be a lesson to any player who thinks he is bigger than a club.
I congratulate Jol & Mo for their stance.

Quote from: Chopper on September 07, 2012, 12:43:44 PM
I agree that Clint could perhaps have handled the situation better but I really don't hold any animosity towards him.

I can see that this really was his last chance to get a move to a "big" club and having provided us with 5 and a half years of exceptional service perhaps deserved to be treated in a more adult fashion by the club (though it is nice to see us not get railroaded into a deal we didn't want, so plus points for the way we've dealt with Liverpool).

I wonder if this is partly Jol's personality. You're either with him or against him and he's not afraid to butt heads.

That said I think Clint might have got his move to Liverpool had he just towed the line a little longer and let his agent get on with the transfer shenanigans.

Sad way to end his career with us but Clint will remain a Fulham legend for me and I'll be proud to give him a warm reception if he plays against us.

Players move to other clubs. That's understandable. Do you see any animosity towards Dembele who for many of us is a greater loss? So why is there towards Dempsey?

Yet another person having a dig at the club and Jol. If you turned up late for work, said something along the lines that you were not interested in doing what you signed a very lucrative contract to do because you were leaving shortly, how do you think your boss and employers would respond? Jol's the manager. If you don't want to play then what use are you to him or the club. I think they behaved very reasonably considering the circumstances they were place in.

Dempsey did not get the Liverpool move and damaged his reputation through his (and his agent's) own acts. He was very lucky to get the get-out-of-jail card with the last minute move to Spurs.

And anyone who calls him a legend loses all credibility in my eyes unless they mean legendary mug.

After reading the article, I'm still waiting for the revelation...

Agree with Mr. Chopper, it didn't end with the grace I would have expected but we saw the best of CD & he was an improving asset to the Club year after year.  He provided several fantastic memories!  This was his last chance to for a 'payday' & a chance at Champs football.

I have a feeling that Mr. Grandad could be right too - CD could languish on the bench for Spurs & only be a bit-part player, rather unfortunate given how great he was for Fulham.

His stance as a contracted highly paid player is impossible to defend,(trailer park upbringing ??) whatever the accuracy of any  press report's , Goal.com included .
Don't wish him ill-but has probably made a move to a club looking like this years Liverpool mess.Greed or ambition-platitudes after achieving move somewhat hollow gesture.
Well  done Mo.

Quote from: west kowloon white on September 07, 2012, 01:44:54 PM
His stance as a contracted highly paid player is impossible to defend,(trailer park upbringing ??) whatever the accuracy of any  press report's , Goal.com included .
Don't wish him ill-but has probably made a move to a club looking like this years Liverpool mess.Greed or ambition-platitudes after achieving move somewhat hollow gesture.
Well  done Mo.

We have had others who behaved similarly such as Bullard. I suggest that it is more a consequence of attitude rather than background.

And what fails to make any sense to me is why he would see Liverpool as a "dream move".

I suspect his salary at Spurs will be little different unless he plays in 80% of their games and Spurs do well -big question mark against both - so has probably missed out on his last big pay day as well as his dream move to a mid table team who will be losing their manager by the end of this season. Will he be worried about that? of course not, its about playing at the highest level and proving himself.

Top 5 Fulham players in the PL era. I'm not going to let emotion get in the way of that.

It will be interesting to see if there are any legal reactions to this piece. If not, then can we assume it is largely accurate (I don't doubt there are other things not known about, so not published)?

Maybe I'm being naive here, but it does look to me like Dempsey has been very badly advised over the whole sorry mess. Yes, he should have been smart enough to modify his (reported) behaviour, but somebody must have convinced him that the move to Plod was all but signed and sealed.

As I said on another topic, I am sorry asbout the way it all ended up for Dempsey, but I retain very fond memories of his time with us, and I can not see myself booing him when he comes visiting, though I expect many others will take the chance to make themselves feel better.

An interesting and useful summary of events. The fact that it comes from goal.com, a known unreliable source, need not bother us too much as it does not really contain anything we didn't know before. The only 'new' stuff is the bit about MAF threatening to send Dempsey on loan to a Championship club as a punishment. We can discount this as garbage immediately. Fulham could no more force Dempsey to go to Charlton (which would probably transgress his Eighth Amendment rights as well) than they could force him to go to Aston Villa.

Both Liverpool and Dempsey cut rather sad figures in all this.

We seem to have got at least the minimum we expected for the player (why Liverpool would think we would be interested in a figure lower than one which had already been bid is the most mystifying feature of the whole sorry saga). It remains, now, to be seen if Dempsey can replicate with Spurs the kind of stellar season he had (one time only) with us.

I agree totally that Dempsey seems to have been very poorly advised in all this.

The fact that we haven't (as yet) had any 'Dempsey side' of the story dishing the dirt on Fulham can mean either that there isn't any, or a return by one of the finest players we have had in recent years to the kind of standards of professionalism we had come to admire in him (or, perhaps, both).

Quote from: cmg on September 07, 2012, 09:06:45 PM
(why Liverpool would think we would be interested in a figure lower than one which had already been bid is the most mystifying feature of the whole sorry saga).

Because Liverpool thought they had our feet to the fire. They knew Dempsey wouldn't agree to move to Villa or similar, so they figured we would have to take whatever they offered.

It's odd that those that completely laugh off goal.com with 99% of the time are taking this article as the gospel. If the article ripped fulham what would you be saying about goal.com then? What still wasn't revealed is the true nature and what was said in the jol/dempsey dust up. It very well could be what led dempsey to do what he did. There is also this.


http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1153580/tottenham's-clint-dempsey-reveals-stress-of-transfer-saga?cc=5901 (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1153580/tottenham's-clint-dempsey-reveals-stress-of-transfer-saga?cc=5901)

Another article I can't find mentioned Dempsey today before his WC qualifier
saying he just wanted to move on from this but it was noted again how he thanked MAF the club and the fans but what was notable is his complete lack of mention or thanking of JOL. Take that what you will.

Quote from: Chopper on September 07, 2012, 12:43:44 PM
I agree that Clint could perhaps have handled the situation better but I really don't hold any animosity towards him.

I can see that this really was his last chance to get a move to a "big" club and having provided us with 5 and a half years of exceptional service perhaps deserved to be treated in a slightly more adult fashion by the club (though it is nice to see us not get railroaded into a deal we didn't want, so plus points for the way we've dealt with Liverpool).

I wonder if this is partly Jol's personality. You're either with him or against him and he's not afraid to butt heads.

That said I think Clint might have got his move to Liverpool had he just towed the line a little longer and let his agent get on with the transfer shenanigans.

Sad way to end his career with us but Clint will remain a Fulham legend for me and I'll be proud to give him a warm reception if he plays against us.

He was hardly a legend

The one thing that has come to light after this has been put to bed is that Jol is liar.

As far as Dempsey's career from here on those with a crystal ball foretelling of his demise with Spurs no little of the man from Texas.  My estimation is he will be a star at Spurs just like he was for Fulham.  The reason being he a go to type player that will always come through for his team.  If I had to be in a fox hole with someone I would pick Clint Dempsey to have my back. 

 :bang head:

jog on!

Cottage Corner Refugee alert.

Just wondering, with all the criticism of Dempsey, earned or not, why does no one have something to say about Jol & the Chairman selling our season to Spurs and pocketing the money? With the Dems, I expect Spurs to do well. Without the Dems, I fear we are no better then bottom ten middle or lower.

Quote from: YankeeJim on September 09, 2012, 12:58:29 AM
Just wondering, with all the criticism of Dempsey, earned or not, why does no one have something to say about Jol & the Chairman selling our season to Spurs and pocketing the money? With the Dems, I expect Spurs to do well. Without the Dems, I fear we are no better then bottom ten middle or lower.

Dembele deal was out of our hands due to the release clause and Dempsey forced a move. I don't think pocketing the money was their intention but the moves happened stupidly late in the window and any deal we try to strike at the end would see us being ripped off as the other clubs know we have to replace and we have money to burn.

I really hate this argument that we have brought in £XXM we should then spend the same £XXM on players or that MAF is 'pocketing the money'

Its about running a club & business. The money we spend & bring in, are just parts of a clubs total turnover. There is no seperate 'transfer' bank account where it gets topped up or goes overdrawn.
Yes the Managers have budgets and maybe sometimes he would get a bit more, but its also about wages, investment in youth, the training ground, Craven Cottage., paying the bloody tea lady.
Its all in the pot to make the club run in a sensible way.

MAF has put in about £200M and we are in a sense £180M still in debt to him. We have a payment structure in place to pay back £10M per year. But its not as if Spurs pay £15M for Dembele and MAF does a bank transfer of £12M out of the club because we recieved that money.

Those of you who think MAF is tight with his money and bleeding the club explain this...
At the meeting of the premier lge last week, we were one of only 3 clubs who are not in favour of FFP. MAF wants clubs to have the ablity to run how ever they want, its his business and he does not feel their should be restrictions as to how much money he puts in. If he was walking away and not interested thats not the argument he would use.

Quote from: YankeeJim on September 09, 2012, 12:58:29 AM
Just wondering, with all the criticism of Dempsey, earned or not, why does no one have something to say about Jol & the Chairman selling our season to Spurs and pocketing the money? With the Dems, I expect Spurs to do well. Without the Dems, I fear we are no better then bottom ten middle or lower.

demps , star he was at fulham , is most likely to be a bit-part  , so can't see him being that much of an influence at the lane  .and the truth is , he was only an afterthought for spurs because moutinho wasn't available ; he was never on their original radar.

and as for us , berbatov is proven quality , petric , given the service, will score and frei already does certain things better than clint , so i'm not particularly mourning demps' departure . no , it's mousa we're going to miss , the irreplacable one.

Quote from: JimmyDunnesBum on September 09, 2012, 12:07:18 PM

Quote from: YankeeJim on September 09, 2012, 12:58:29 AM
Just wondering, with all the criticism of Dempsey, earned or not, why does no one have something to say about Jol & the Chairman selling our season to Spurs and pocketing the money? With the Dems, I expect Spurs to do well. Without the Dems, I fear we are no better then bottom ten middle or lower.

demps , star he was at fulham , is most likely to be a bit-part  , so can't see him being that much of an influence at the lane  .and the truth is , he was only an afterthought for spurs because moutinho wasn't available ; he was never on their original radar.

and as for us , berbatov is proven quality , petric , given the service, will score and frei already does certain things better than clint , so i'm not particularly mourning demps' departure . no , it's mousa we're going to miss , the irreplacable one.

Agree 100% would just add Dempsey was signed by Spurs not only because they failed to get Moutinho but also to get Berbatov who they tried to jump in and nab from us while he was having his medical in the afternoon. I think if they would have got him then no Dempsey bid which is why bid for Dempsey came so late in the evening (about 8.30pm).

I haven't seen evidence that Spurs were after Berbatov.  What have i missed?  You claim they tried "to jump in and nab [him] from us".  I admit I don't live on this board, but I thought I should have heard about that.  I think Spurs got Clint at the last minute because 1. They wanted a proven winner; and 2. FFC saw the prospect of continuing to pay for a disaffected player and possible bad will spreading.   The historic revisionism continues on that message board about the relative values that Clint and Moose brought to game results.   Jol created first impressions with his initial reportage and, as he represents authority, fans tended to adopt his story as the one true story.  Whatever.  Petric might come through.  Berbatov might have enough legs left in him to be effective over the course of the season as a starter.  A lot of "ifs".  Let's not pretend the jury is still out on Clint's effectiveness.   

Quote from: Forever Fulham on September 09, 2012, 09:22:55 PM
I haven't seen evidence that Spurs were after Berbatov.  What have i missed?  You claim they tried "to jump in and nab [him] from us".  I admit I don't live on this board, but I thought I should have heard about that.  I think Spurs got Clint at the last minute because 1. They wanted a proven winner; and 2. FFC saw the prospect of continuing to pay for a disaffected player and possible bad will spreading.   The historic revisionism continues on that message board about the relative values that Clint and Moose brought to game results.   Jol created first impressions with his initial reportage and, as he represents authority, fans tended to adopt his story as the one true story.  Whatever.  Petric might come through.  Berbatov might have enough legs left in him to be effective over the course of the season as a starter.  A lot of "ifs".  Let's not pretend the jury is still out on Clint's effectiveness.   

Berbatov said in an interview in his home country that spurs had come in for him on the last day

Thanks, Alex Bishop.  I didn't know that.

His agent was touting him around right up to the end, he met Daniel Levy just before the window closed.

Quote from: Reindeer on September 09, 2012, 11:36:34 AM

Quote from: YankeeJim on September 09, 2012, 12:58:29 AM
Just wondering, with all the criticism of Dempsey, earned or not, why does no one have something to say about Jol & the Chairman selling our season to Spurs and pocketing the money? With the Dems, I expect Spurs to do well. Without the Dems, I fear we are no better then bottom ten middle or lower.

I think your biggest fear is without Dempsey, there's no reason to carry on supporting us. 

Our chairman puts all his energy into the club and has handled the situation impeccably.  He has supported the manager 100% and did not give in to the bullying from the American own scousers. To claim he is pocketing money is as deluded as the "two sides" argument put up by Dempsey.

I think your biggest fear is without Dempsey, there's no reason to carry on supporting us. 

Now that is an asinine comment. You have no idea what "my biggest fear is" so I'll tell you: irritating, obnoxious individuals such as yourself. I was here long before Dempsey and will be here as long as the "Friends of Fulham" I've grown to know & respect remain the decent folks they are.

I agree with Hatter Don that I truly hope FFC never gets another American just so I don't have to read nonsense such as your post. Sorry if bullying by we Yanks is your greatest fear.

Sorry mods. I know nothing should be personal so my apologies to all but this pointed headed, four legged creature.

I agree I hope that no more Americans sign for the club. It's funny how everybody just says well he was a panic buy. From the Spurs people who I've observed on their podcast. He wasn't a panic buy but he was a guy who was still out there. An opportunistic move by Spurs. To think Dempsey was just a last resort for failing to get Berbatov and Moutinho was asinine. Dempsey isn't a direct replacement for either.

Quote from: Forever Fulham on September 09, 2012, 09:22:55 PM
I haven't seen evidence that Spurs were after Berbatov.  What have i missed?  You claim they tried "to jump in and nab [him] from us".  I admit I don't live on this board, but I thought I should have heard about that.  I think Spurs got Clint at the last minute because 1. They wanted a proven winner; and 2. FFC saw the prospect of continuing to pay for a disaffected player and possible bad will spreading.   The historic revisionism continues on that message board about the relative values that Clint and Moose brought to game results.   Jol created first impressions with his initial reportage and, as he represents authority, fans tended to adopt his story as the one true story.  Whatever.  Petric might come through.  Berbatov might have enough legs left in him to be effective over the course of the season as a starter.  A lot of "ifs".  Let's not pretend the jury is still out on Clint's effectiveness.   

I don't know where you have been but it was all over the media including MOD which is normally way behind events. It was even on Sky that Tittenham had made a last ditch bid to get him on their transfer clockwatch. Even Jol referred to another club coming in for him when he was having his medical but the kept him in the room.

Quote from: Reindeer on September 10, 2012, 11:36:06 AM

You also come across as a bitter little nark, with your personal rantings, a trait that is becoming all too familiar from our US fanbase.  The fact that you sit there watching the occasional game on TV, with a bowl of nachos on your belly, doesn't give you the right to have a personal go at me for questioning your position in this debate.  I don't know you or wish to know you, I simply put up a reply to your claim against the integrity of our manger and chairman.

I am from that same "US fanbase" and I also get to see my team on TV rather than live.

Just because you are in the privileged position of living in the UK and being able to see our team week-in and week-out doesn't make you better than anyone else on FoF. Most of the time it is down to finances and time. What's the cost of a season ticket? 500 quid? It costs me almost twice that just to see ONE match a season, 2 times that for me and the missus, with a 36-hours travelling time thrown in, and we try to get over at least every couple of seasons to see a match live. So who is the 'better' supporter? Not me, not you, we are the same.

So, YJ used, perhaps, poor language when mentioning MaF pocketing the money, I personally believe it's his to do what he wants to, but that is no reason to slag off a fellow supporter and member of this MB, and every US fan on here.

..

Quote from: Reindeer on September 10, 2012, 11:36:06 AM

Quote from: YankeeJim on September 09, 2012, 10:24:45 PM

Quote from: Reindeer on September 09, 2012, 11:36:34 AM

Quote from: YankeeJim on September 09, 2012, 12:58:29 AM
Just wondering, with all the criticism of Dempsey, earned or not, why does no one have something to say about Jol & the Chairman selling our season to Spurs and pocketing the money? With the Dems, I expect Spurs to do well. Without the Dems, I fear we are no better then bottom ten middle or lower.

I think your biggest fear is without Dempsey, there's no reason to carry on supporting us. 

Our chairman puts all his energy into the club and has handled the situation impeccably.  He has supported the manager 100% and did not give in to the bullying from the American own scousers. To claim he is pocketing money is as deluded as the "two sides" argument put up by Dempsey.

I think your biggest fear is without Dempsey, there's no reason to carry on supporting us. 

Now that is an asinine comment. You have no idea what "my biggest fear is" so I'll tell you: irritating, obnoxious individuals such as yourself. I was here long before Dempsey and will be here as long as the "Friends of Fulham" I've grown to know & respect remain the decent folks they are.

I agree with Hatter Don that I truly hope FFC never gets another American just so I don't have to read nonsense such as your post. Sorry if bullying by we Yanks is your greatest fear.

Sorry mods. I know nothing should be personal so my apologies to all but this pointed headed, four legged creature.

You come across as a bit of a Dempsey "fanboy"

So says the chairman of Senderos United.  064.gif 064.gif 064.gif 064.gif 064.gif 064.gif 064.gif 064.gif

In  merely a few weeks time, as Dempsey doesn't play for Fulham, I expect that there will be no need to talk about him on this Fulham messageboard.  At that point any real 'Dempsey fanboys' will have moved on and we can talk about the current team.

It took about a month to forget Zamora but it should take a little longer for Dempsey due to the nature of his departure but probably no longer...

Quote from: Edward_Winston_Malone on September 10, 2012, 12:29:23 PM
In  merely a few weeks time, as Dempsey doesn't play for Fulham, I expect that there will be no need to talk about him on this Fulham messageboard.  At that point any real 'Dempsey fanboys' will have moved on and we can talk about the current team.

It took about a month to forget Zamora but it should take a little longer for Dempsey due to the nature of his departure but probably no longer...

amen.... 9739.gif

 Mr. Reindeer,I was excited when Clint joined Fulham, well frankly I was excited when Eddie Lewis joined, or Bocanegra or... to me it meant that some of our American players were "good enough" to get to a top English Club, made even better that I was a Fulham supporter before they arrived! Whatever motivated me to to support  Fulham in the first place in the 90's prior to their ascendancy to the Premiership (and before the Americans) is one of those life mysteries that will forever be unable to explain. All I know is that Fulham has taken the place of the New York Yankees and other American teams in my consiousness that I once followed for many years. Fulham matchdays are all consuming for me now with the gamut emotions following from sweetbliss to melancholy that all you proper English fans must feel. I am envious (and respectful) of you Mr Reindeer and the Fulham faithful, who attend each week home and away come hell or high water, while I buy extra cable TV packages and fiddle with my computer to locate this weeks feed from Uzbekistan in order to watch every match. I do watch nearly every one though and have for years. Yes, one of my highest highs was when Dempsey scored that beautiful goal vs Juve in the Europa Cup (and I told him so to his face), but make no mistake, it was in a Fulham shirt that made it so special to me.
Since joining FofF I have been connected emotionally to the club as never before. There are at least two dozen contributors here who I can't do without each week, Lighthouse ( I love/hate his posts), Hatter Don ( best match re-caps I've read), Tony Gilroy (  master of common sense) to name a few. You are my extended Fulham family which is what I think the creators of this board had in mind.
I will get there some day as I'm looking to semi retire in a few years and Fulham has been top of my bucket list for a long time. I will be the 60 ish shouting American who has possibly lost his mind wearing the Demon Adidas shirt standing behind you.

Quote from: Reindeer on September 10, 2012, 12:22:58 PM


Look, the whole point of the response is to address the personal attack on me in the first place.  I didn't see YOU pipe up on my behalf, but when a member of your brigade gets an ear full, then you're fighting the good fight.

What you spend on coming over here is to be admired.  You're right about the spend factor and the club obviously means a lot to you, as it does to most on here.  However sticking up for one of your own, doesn't make your actions right either.

As for 'one of my own', perhaps you should understand I have a foot in both camps, having been born and bred on the Lillie Road, I spent my youth and formative years  on the terraces of the Cottage, long before it was fashionable, and had the privilege of seeing people such as Haynes, Cohen, and my all-time favorites, sniffer & Conway. Having spent 34 years doing that in the UK, I then emigrated to the US, and continued following the one team I had done since I was 6. And I am not alone in giving the same story, there are a lot of members on here with the same history who now live in the States.
So, there is no, 'one of my own' as you like to put it, there are just Fulham Fans, that's it, we are all the same.

No, I didn't 'pipe up' on your behalf, and neither did I on YJ's either, I spoke up due to the bigoted nature of your comments. We left such bigotry back on the original Fulham board, and it is NOT tolerated on here. I hope that makes it quite clear why I decide to 'rant', not in defence of one "US Fanbase" nark, but solely due to your painting every US-based fan, with the same brush you painted one person.

FoF is open to all members of our clubs fanbase, and all are treated equally, if you decide you don't like someones comments, ignore them, there's even a button for that! I hope this puts a line under this very sorry saga.

Quote from: Reindeer on September 10, 2012, 12:22:58 PM

Quote from: Logicalman on September 10, 2012, 11:57:24 AM

Quote from: Reindeer on September 10, 2012, 11:36:06 AM

You also come across as a bitter little nark, with your personal rantings, a trait that is becoming all too familiar from our US fanbase.  The fact that you sit there watching the occasional game on TV, with a bowl of nachos on your belly, doesn't give you the right to have a personal go at me for questioning your position in this debate.  I don't know you or wish to know you, I simply put up a reply to your claim against the integrity of our manger and chairman.

I am from that same "US fanbase" and I also get to see my team on TV rather than live.

Just because you are in the privileged position of living in the UK and being able to see our team week-in and week-out doesn't make you better than anyone else on FoF. Most of the time it is down to finances and time. What's the cost of a season ticket? 500 quid? It costs me almost twice that just to see ONE match a season, 2 times that for me and the missus, with a 36-hours travelling time thrown in, and we try to get over at least every couple of seasons to see a match live. So who is the 'better' supporter? Not me, not you, we are the same.

So, YJ used, perhaps, poor language when mentioning MaF pocketing the money, I personally believe it's his to do what he wants to, but that is no reason to slag off a fellow supporter and member of this MB, and every US fan on here.

..

Look, the whole point of the response is to address the personal attack on me in the first place.  I didn't see YOU pipe up on my behalf, but when a member of your brigade gets an ear full, then you're fighting the good fight.

What you spend on coming over here is to be admired.  You're right about the spend factor and the club obviously means a lot to you, as it does to most on here.  However sticking up for one of your own, doesn't make your actions right either.

You both should remember that when an individual makes a post that does not align with your personal view of a situation you are not entitled to respond with personal insults but your post Reindeer seems to slander every US fan and an entire country.

QuoteYou also come across as a bitter little nark, with your personal rantings, a trait that is becoming all too familiar from our US fanbase.  The fact that you sit there watching the occasional game on TV, with a bowl of nachos on your belly, doesn't give you the right to have a personal go at me for questioning your position in this debate.  I don't know you or wish to know you, I simply put up a reply to your claim against the integrity of our manger and chairman.

As a fan from the "US fanbase" I will tell you that I watch more than the occasional match and before the nice link threads to the matches I used to spends hours trying to find a decent stream. Also, I am extremely insulted by the fat joke.  So if you get more than a few irritated responses to your insults try not to be too surprised and do try to read the forum rules below.  I added them just in case you missed them before.

Rules for Posting
SECTION 1
Under no circumstances will topics on following be considered acceptable:

       A - POLITICS
       B - RACIST REMARKS
       C - SEXIST REMARKS
       D - HOMOPHOBIC REMARKS
       E - SECTARIAN / RELIGIOUS ABUSE
       F - TERMINAL ILLNESS
      G - PERSONAL ABUSE / BULLYING / SLANDER
       H - POSITIVE REMARKS ABOUT ERNIE CLAY

It is understood that from time to time especially on a football forum subjects such as the Hillsborough or Heysel Disaster, Bradford Park Fire, Munich Air Disaster et al will arise. We ask that any discussion is to remain respectful at all times due to the sensitive nature of the topic.

Please remember this is a public domain, an opinion or the re-emergence of such sensitive topics can open old wounds for so many friends, relatives, and loved ones.

The Fulham philosophy is to always adopt a common sense approach when addressing any issues.
SECTION 2

Suggested Member guidelines:

   TEXT TALK - Whilst not banned, text talk is frowned upon in some quarters, its confusing for some users. Please apply common sense, some abbreviations are understandable whilst others are not. Always try to refrain from replying to posts in text language.
   CAPITALS - Please refrain from using them constantly, again in some quarters this is frowned upon. Some people consider it to be "SHOUTlNG". You wouldnt shout your opinion in a conversation so please dont do it on here. We dont mind members posting in Capitals for emphasis however.
   OVERSIZE SIGNATURES - We ask you to keep them to a reasonable size.
   MULTIPLE THREADS - We ask members not to start multiple threads on the same subject.
   SMILEY FACES - We have no objections to their use but please dont go overboard.
   RIVAL SUPPORTERS - Whilst FoF is predominantly a Fulham community, the views and opinions from supporters of rival clubs are both welcomed and appreciated (the exception being Alan Green - no one should take any notice of him). Of course, banter has always been a key theme of FoF but if we find it to be abusive, the offenders will be dealt with swiftly.
   SWEARING - Please try to avoid swearing, trying to disguise the words is also not acceptable either. We are aware that a degree of mild swearing will crop up from time to time, and left on or removed at the moderators discretion given the context.

These rules are not written in stone but they are what we expect of our members.

Younger members are not to be discouraged so we must make you aware that it is predominantly an adult forum.

Furthermore its worth noting that when a discussion reaches a dead end or loggerhead. We have found it much better from experience to simply Agree To Disagree.

On behalf of the whole Friends of Fulham team please feel a wholehearted welcome. Please remember, all are welcome to join and enjoy this little piece of cyber bliss, look after it, meet the locals and discover whats involved in the Fulham experience.

SNAP

I was born off of Lillie Road in Laundry Road & I have been to America and eaten nachos...

I have also been to Craven Cottage (more than 600 times) but if it cost me $500 dollars each time,  I wouldn't have bothered...

The DDL can now be disbanded as he has gone.
No need for Fulham fans to fall out over a player who made the decision to leave our club, he is a hero to some and a zero for others.

Most could not care less and want to support the players we have.
Take a breather, think before you type and lets get on with supporting our team.

COYW

Quote from: MJG on September 10, 2012, 01:40:35 PM
The DDL can now be disbanded as he has gone.
No need for Fulham fans to fall out over a player who made the decision to leave our club, he is a hero to some and a zero for others.

Most could not care less and want to support the players we have.
Take a breather, think before you type and lets get on with supporting our team.

COYW

yes indeed..... :medal:

Quote from: Reindeer on September 10, 2012, 01:17:10 PM

Quote from: BarryP on September 10, 2012, 01:12:34 PM

Quote from: Reindeer on September 10, 2012, 12:22:58 PM

Quote from: Logicalman on September 10, 2012, 11:57:24 AM

Quote from: Reindeer on September 10, 2012, 11:36:06 AM

You also come across as a bitter little nark, with your personal rantings, a trait that is becoming all too familiar from our US fanbase.  The fact that you sit there watching the occasional game on TV, with a bowl of nachos on your belly, doesn't give you the right to have a personal go at me for questioning your position in this debate.  I don't know you or wish to know you, I simply put up a reply to your claim against the integrity of our manger and chairman.

I am from that same "US fanbase" and I also get to see my team on TV rather than live.

Just because you are in the privileged position of living in the UK and being able to see our team week-in and week-out doesn't make you better than anyone else on FoF. Most of the time it is down to finances and time. What's the cost of a season ticket? 500 quid? It costs me almost twice that just to see ONE match a season, 2 times that for me and the missus, with a 36-hours travelling time thrown in, and we try to get over at least every couple of seasons to see a match live. So who is the 'better' supporter? Not me, not you, we are the same.

So, YJ used, perhaps, poor language when mentioning MaF pocketing the money, I personally believe it's his to do what he wants to, but that is no reason to slag off a fellow supporter and member of this MB, and every US fan on here.

..

Look, the whole point of the response is to address the personal attack on me in the first place.  I didn't see YOU pipe up on my behalf, but when a member of your brigade gets an ear full, then you're fighting the good fight.

What you spend on coming over here is to be admired.  You're right about the spend factor and the club obviously means a lot to you, as it does to most on here.  However sticking up for one of your own, doesn't make your actions right either.

You both should remember that when an individual makes a post that does not align with your personal view of a situation you are not entitled to respond with personal insults but your post Reindeer seems to slander every US fan and an entire country.

QuoteYou also come across as a bitter little nark, with your personal rantings, a trait that is becoming all too familiar from our US fanbase.  The fact that you sit there watching the occasional game on TV, with a bowl of nachos on your belly, doesn't give you the right to have a personal go at me for questioning your position in this debate.  I don't know you or wish to know you, I simply put up a reply to your claim against the integrity of our manger and chairman.

As a fan from the "US fanbase" I will tell you that I watch more than the occasional match and before the nice link threads to the matches I used to spends hours trying to find a decent stream. Also, I am extremely insulted by the fat joke.  So if you get more than a few irritated responses to your insults try not to be too surprised and do try to read the forum rules below.  I added them just in case you missed them before.

Rules for Posting
SECTION 1
Under no circumstances will topics on following be considered acceptable:

       A - POLITICS
       B - RACIST REMARKS
       C - SEXIST REMARKS
       D - HOMOPHOBIC REMARKS
       E - SECTARIAN / RELIGIOUS ABUSE
       F - TERMINAL ILLNESS
      G - PERSONAL ABUSE / BULLYING / SLANDER
       H - POSITIVE REMARKS ABOUT ERNIE CLAY

It is understood that from time to time especially on a football forum subjects such as the Hillsborough or Heysel Disaster, Bradford Park Fire, Munich Air Disaster et al will arise. We ask that any discussion is to remain respectful at all times due to the sensitive nature of the topic.

Please remember this is a public domain, an opinion or the re-emergence of such sensitive topics can open old wounds for so many friends, relatives, and loved ones.

The Fulham philosophy is to always adopt a common sense approach when addressing any issues.
SECTION 2

Suggested Member guidelines:

   TEXT TALK - Whilst not banned, text talk is frowned upon in some quarters, its confusing for some users. Please apply common sense, some abbreviations are understandable whilst others are not. Always try to refrain from replying to posts in text language.
   CAPITALS - Please refrain from using them constantly, again in some quarters this is frowned upon. Some people consider it to be "SHOUTlNG". You wouldnt shout your opinion in a conversation so please dont do it on here. We dont mind members posting in Capitals for emphasis however.
   OVERSIZE SIGNATURES - We ask you to keep them to a reasonable size.
   MULTIPLE THREADS - We ask members not to start multiple threads on the same subject.
   SMILEY FACES - We have no objections to their use but please dont go overboard.
   RIVAL SUPPORTERS - Whilst FoF is predominantly a Fulham community, the views and opinions from supporters of rival clubs are both welcomed and appreciated (the exception being Alan Green - no one should take any notice of him). Of course, banter has always been a key theme of FoF but if we find it to be abusive, the offenders will be dealt with swiftly.
   SWEARING - Please try to avoid swearing, trying to disguise the words is also not acceptable either. We are aware that a degree of mild swearing will crop up from time to time, and left on or removed at the moderators discretion given the context.

These rules are not written in stone but they are what we expect of our members.

Younger members are not to be discouraged so we must make you aware that it is predominantly an adult forum.

Furthermore its worth noting that when a discussion reaches a dead end or loggerhead. We have found it much better from experience to simply Agree To Disagree.

On behalf of the whole Friends of Fulham team please feel a wholehearted welcome. Please remember, all are welcome to join and enjoy this little piece of cyber bliss, look after it, meet the locals and discover whats involved in the Fulham experience.

"Now that is an asinine comment. You have no idea what "my biggest fear is" so I'll tell you: irritating, obnoxious individuals such as yourself. I was here long before Dempsey and will be here as long as the "Friends of Fulham" I've grown to know & respect remain the decent folks they are.

Sorry mods. I know nothing should be personal so my apologies to all but this pointed headed, four legged creature."

I guess the above doesn't constitute bullying or slander then?

Of course it does.  If you had read the post carefully you would have noted I did not exclude Jim and two wrongs still do not make a right.

There is an obvious disconnect between the US supporters and UK (and the rest of the world) supporters. The Dempsey situation just literally just provided a battleground to see how many scalps one can claim. I can understand that one side may feel bad that a certain section of supporters may not be fans of the club but of certain players but I don't see why people would have a shot but it does reveal a deep seated dislike for the US fanbase of the club. On the occasion, I do go to the Cottage. I wear my Dempsey shirt and I try to remain under the radar. Don't talk much, have a nice drink and meal at a local pub then go to the stadium and watch the match. Support the club by myself.

The best solution here is to no longer sign any Americans as a result, no Americans will become a supporter. Then let the current ones die off. :dft012:

Interesting article. Not sure it will be the last word though.

Anyway, Dempsey was without doubt a key player for Fulham. He was definitely no 'one season wonder' either. He was very robust as well as prolific but not showy in either his play or demeanour.

He was not missed at Norwich but long term his absence could have more impact than Zamora who I was glad to see the back of.

Quote from: Yellow Jacket on September 10, 2012, 02:56:15 PM
There is an obvious disconnect between the US supporters and UK (and the rest of the world) supporters. The Dempsey situation just literally just provided a battleground to see how many scalps one can claim. I can understand that one side may feel bad that a certain section of supporters may not be fans of the club but of certain players but I don't see why people would have a shot but it does reveal a deep seated dislike for the US fanbase of the club. On the occasion, I do go to the Cottage. I wear my Dempsey shirt and I try to remain under the radar. Don't talk much, have a nice drink and meal at a local pub then go to the stadium and watch the match. Support the club by myself.

The best solution here is to no longer sign any Americans as a result, no Americans will become a supporter. Then let the current ones die off. :dft012:

This assumes that all US supporters are all alike and all UK supporters are alike and the two groups are antagonistic. There is clearly a spectrum of supporters in both camps. The majority in both camps will be silent or quiet. We tend to remember the most extreme examples.

The problems seem to have arisen when the extreme Dempsey fan-boys said something like "Dempsey is the best player Fulham have ever had", "Dempsey is an honourable man" or "the truth will come out", particularly in a context that is provocative, or when they started blaming Jol or MAF for the whole situation. That sort of stuff is bound to create a reaction. And then those fan-boys saying that the reaction is just because he is/we are American just pours petrol on the flames.

It is perfectly fine to be a fan of an individual player, home or overseas, but if you are then you have to try to be realistic about the quality of the player. There were similar issues on the old Cottage Corner when Halliche arrived. Most people on the message board are fans of the club and have and will be here through all the comings and goings of individual players. Most find excessive love of one player to the point of denigrating the club whatever the player does irritating if not offensive.

Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on September 10, 2012, 03:42:47 PM

Quote from: Yellow Jacket on September 10, 2012, 02:56:15 PM
There is an obvious disconnect between the US supporters and UK (and the rest of the world) supporters. The Dempsey situation just literally just provided a battleground to see how many scalps one can claim. I can understand that one side may feel bad that a certain section of supporters may not be fans of the club but of certain players but I don't see why people would have a shot but it does reveal a deep seated dislike for the US fanbase of the club. On the occasion, I do go to the Cottage. I wear my Dempsey shirt and I try to remain under the radar. Don't talk much, have a nice drink and meal at a local pub then go to the stadium and watch the match. Support the club by myself.

The best solution here is to no longer sign any Americans as a result, no Americans will become a supporter. Then let the current ones die off. :dft012:

This assumes that all US supporters are all alike and all UK supporters are alike and the two groups are antagonistic. There is clearly a spectrum of supporters in both camps. The majority in both camps will be silent or quiet. We tend to remember the most extreme examples.

The problems seem to have arisen when the extreme Dempsey fan-boys said something like "Dempsey is the best player Fulham have ever had", "Dempsey is an honourable man" or "the truth will come out", particularly in a context that is provocative, or when they started blaming Jol or MAF for the whole situation. That sort of stuff is bound to create a reaction. And then those fan-boys saying that the reaction is just because he is/we are American just pours petrol on the flames.

It is perfectly fine to be a fan of an individual player, home or overseas, but if you are then you have to try to be realistic about the quality of the player. There were similar issues on the old Cottage Corner when Halliche arrived. Most people on the message board are fans of the club and have and will be here through all the comings and goings of individual players. Most find excessive love of one player to the point of denigrating the club whatever the player does irritating if not offensive.

1. I never assumed that all supporters on either side of the Atlantic is the same but there it's not like we're all brothers in arms here. It's like a gathering and you keep one at arms length. To be fair, I don't have any connection with Fulham fans and I don't consider any other Fulham supporter a friend. That's because I'm just now hanging around the general fanbase and not necessarily supporting the team in total solitude like I've done for years. However, I tend to be more sympathetic towards the US support because as an American, I do understand the tightrope that US supporters walk. If you don't like the American supporters then that is perfectly fine because at the end of the day, I support the club and not necessarily the supporters.

You are wrong in the respect that everyone is remembered including the extreme. Everybody on this forum I'm sure has in their mind what side of the "battle" that each member is on. Some may not engage but I'm sure there are sympathizers like myself.

2. The problems arise when certain people take things out of context and people are actually willing to not participate in a witch hunt. The supposed "Dempsey Defense League" can't be true if the members aren't defending. You can't defend unless you (in this case Dempsey) was attacked first. Both parties were wrong and it was the best option to wait and see. Now, Dempsey has always been crapped on (He dives too much, he always looks disinterested, takes too many wild shots etc..). That's the nature of the beast but it was held back a little due to his contributions to the club. Now, all bets are off because of his situation.

3. It's perfectly fine to be a fan of a player in silence. However, instead of trying to make people realistic which I think people are doing for the most part. Those who aren't really can't be helped. I suggest you should try not to belittle him. Now, I believe people really believed he is a crappy player and he was a very lucky boy but to be honest. If he wasn't 29 or an American then the £6m received for him could have easily become at least £10m that he's truly worth when it comes to assessing his talents and abilities.

Now, I would perhaps be more forgiving of the criticism as I would believe it's not entirely unfounded if it was last summer. He showed he has really refined his game last season. You're really stretching the support for him. I do believe he has been a top 5 PL era player for Fulham. Very influential player if nothing else and Fulham will be a bottom half team this year, I reckon. If nothing else because the competition has gotten better overall. I hope he does great things for Tottenham, if nothing else to enrage certain people on this board. Dembele (who people are very quick to glorify) heaped praise on Dempsey as a teammate again just like Murphy did post Chelsea match. I would trust their opinion of teammates than any of us.

Hi Mods,

I usually hate when threads are locked for a little heated debate, but this is no longer a debate and much more of a slaging match
(He Said/She said/ I Didn't Say/ Why did you say etc). This is one is actually ripe for a locking. If you two have such issue with one another make it a personal chat and try and work things out. We are all in the same boat, just different sides of the pond.  :protest card:

We could have a stickie thread at the top "for those still interested in discussing Dempsey" and everyone else can move on...

Quote from: Edward_Winston_Malone on September 10, 2012, 05:22:34 PM
We could have a stickie thread at the top "for those still interested in discussing Dempsey" and everyone else can move on...

I like that idea

That Ernie Clay - what a legend he was.
Nogood "can't lock a Clay-mentioning thread, isit" Boyo

Quote from: 1879 on September 10, 2012, 05:16:44 PM
Hi Mods,

I usually hate when threads are locked for a little heated debate, but this is no longer a debate and much more of a slaging match
(He Said/She said/ I Didn't Say/ Why did you say etc). This is one is actually ripe for a locking. If you two have such issue with one another make it a personal chat and try and work things out. We are all in the same boat, just different sides of the pond.  :protest card:

Speaking only for myself, there seems to be some value to this debate in that it does bring to the surface some of the underlying resentment that some have over Dempsey (both sides) and I feel if we locked it, it would pop up somewhere else. As long is it doesn't get any more personal, then probably ok to keep it open.

Once Dempsey has been gone for awhile I think this stuff will die down. Those that were here only for him have left the building already and the rest will stay and support the team.

The one thing I always marvel at with this board is that it often is self-moderated or moderated by members so we don't have to act and many times we are notified behind the scenes, so I and I'm sure the other Mods appreciate your comments as they are consistent with the good nature of our membership. Thanks!

Well, a bit of silly anger on my part prompted a fine conversation. I generally have tried not to trade one snarky remark for another as it simply drops one to that level and as one can see, did nothing to convince Reindeer of anything. I did find it interesting that so many felt the same as I did. I also can understand why our English fans feel that foreign fans will leave once "their" guys move on. However, I don't hear that directed towards our Norway fans or any other for that matter. Our English friends should understand that in order for an American to enjoy top flight football, we have to go overseas. You lot have the distinct advantage of speaking a simi understanable version of 'merikan. Well, except for NoGoodBoy.

So, I extend my apology to Reindeer as I should have explained my position better and thanks for the PM's of support.

This thread is the best argument for the "ignore button" I've seen on here in a long while.

And, for possibly the first time ever, I'm in agreement with EWM -- not about the socks, mind you, but about the thread warning.

Quote from: Edward_Winston_Malone on September 10, 2012, 05:22:34 PM
We could have a stickie thread at the top "for those still interested in discussing Dempsey" and everyone else can move on...

I did think about this earlier but on reflection it would cause even more problems, why should someone who did what he did get his own section on this site. So no to its own stickie.

 In truth,  I am not sure why you are apologising Jimbo, Just put on your Demon shirt  and carry on regardless  :54:

Some of the remarks bring to mind the old, old  board .................William Bloke or  Cupid Stunt  anyone ????

Quote from: Yellow Jacket on September 10, 2012, 04:41:14 PM

Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on September 10, 2012, 03:42:47 PM

Quote from: Yellow Jacket on September 10, 2012, 02:56:15 PM
There is an obvious disconnect between the US supporters and UK (and the rest of the world) supporters. The Dempsey situation just literally just provided a battleground to see how many scalps one can claim. I can understand that one side may feel bad that a certain section of supporters may not be fans of the club but of certain players but I don't see why people would have a shot but it does reveal a deep seated dislike for the US fanbase of the club. On the occasion, I do go to the Cottage. I wear my Dempsey shirt and I try to remain under the radar. Don't talk much, have a nice drink and meal at a local pub then go to the stadium and watch the match. Support the club by myself.

The best solution here is to no longer sign any Americans as a result, no Americans will become a supporter. Then let the current ones die off. :dft012:

This assumes that all US supporters are all alike and all UK supporters are alike and the two groups are antagonistic. There is clearly a spectrum of supporters in both camps. The majority in both camps will be silent or quiet. We tend to remember the most extreme examples.

The problems seem to have arisen when the extreme Dempsey fan-boys said something like "Dempsey is the best player Fulham have ever had", "Dempsey is an honourable man" or "the truth will come out", particularly in a context that is provocative, or when they started blaming Jol or MAF for the whole situation. That sort of stuff is bound to create a reaction. And then those fan-boys saying that the reaction is just because he is/we are American just pours petrol on the flames.

It is perfectly fine to be a fan of an individual player, home or overseas, but if you are then you have to try to be realistic about the quality of the player. There were similar issues on the old Cottage Corner when Halliche arrived. Most people on the message board are fans of the club and have and will be here through all the comings and goings of individual players. Most find excessive love of one player to the point of denigrating the club whatever the player does irritating if not offensive.

1. I never assumed that all supporters on either side of the Atlantic is the same but there it's not like we're all brothers in arms here. It's like a gathering and you keep one at arms length. To be fair, I don't have any connection with Fulham fans and I don't consider any other Fulham supporter a friend. That's because I'm just now hanging around the general fanbase and not necessarily supporting the team in total solitude like I've done for years. However, I tend to be more sympathetic towards the US support because as an American, I do understand the tightrope that US supporters walk. If you don't like the American supporters then that is perfectly fine because at the end of the day, I support the club and not necessarily the supporters.

You are wrong in the respect that everyone is remembered including the extreme. Everybody on this forum I'm sure has in their mind what side of the "battle" that each member is on. Some may not engage but I'm sure there are sympathizers like myself.

2. The problems arise when certain people take things out of context and people are actually willing to not participate in a witch hunt. The supposed "Dempsey Defense League" can't be true if the members aren't defending. You can't defend unless you (in this case Dempsey) was attacked first. Both parties were wrong and it was the best option to wait and see. Now, Dempsey has always been crapped on (He dives too much, he always looks disinterested, takes too many wild shots etc..). That's the nature of the beast but it was held back a little due to his contributions to the club. Now, all bets are off because of his situation.

3. It's perfectly fine to be a fan of a player in silence. However, instead of trying to make people realistic which I think people are doing for the most part. Those who aren't really can't be helped. I suggest you should try not to belittle him. Now, I believe people really believed he is a crappy player and he was a very lucky boy but to be honest. If he wasn't 29 or an American then the £6m received for him could have easily become at least £10m that he's truly worth when it comes to assessing his talents and abilities.

Now, I would perhaps be more forgiving of the criticism as I would believe it's not entirely unfounded if it was last summer. He showed he has really refined his game last season. You're really stretching the support for him. I do believe he has been a top 5 PL era player for Fulham. Very influential player if nothing else and Fulham will be a bottom half team this year, I reckon. If nothing else because the competition has gotten better overall. I hope he does great things for Tottenham, if nothing else to enrage certain people on this board. Dembele (who people are very quick to glorify) heaped praise on Dempsey as a teammate again just like Murphy did post Chelsea match. I would trust their opinion of teammates than any of us.

Your post demonstrates where you are coming from and why we get interminable threads like this.

And you do what I think is a typical low trick of knocking another player, in this case Dembele, to bolster your  argument.

Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on September 10, 2012, 06:49:43 PM

Quote from: Yellow Jacket on September 10, 2012, 04:41:14 PM

Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on September 10, 2012, 03:42:47 PM

Quote from: Yellow Jacket on September 10, 2012, 02:56:15 PM
There is an obvious disconnect between the US supporters and UK (and the rest of the world) supporters. The Dempsey situation just literally just provided a battleground to see how many scalps one can claim. I can understand that one side may feel bad that a certain section of supporters may not be fans of the club but of certain players but I don't see why people would have a shot but it does reveal a deep seated dislike for the US fanbase of the club. On the occasion, I do go to the Cottage. I wear my Dempsey shirt and I try to remain under the radar. Don't talk much, have a nice drink and meal at a local pub then go to the stadium and watch the match. Support the club by myself.

The best solution here is to no longer sign any Americans as a result, no Americans will become a supporter. Then let the current ones die off. :dft012:

This assumes that all US supporters are all alike and all UK supporters are alike and the two groups are antagonistic. There is clearly a spectrum of supporters in both camps. The majority in both camps will be silent or quiet. We tend to remember the most extreme examples.

The problems seem to have arisen when the extreme Dempsey fan-boys said something like "Dempsey is the best player Fulham have ever had", "Dempsey is an honourable man" or "the truth will come out", particularly in a context that is provocative, or when they started blaming Jol or MAF for the whole situation. That sort of stuff is bound to create a reaction. And then those fan-boys saying that the reaction is just because he is/we are American just pours petrol on the flames.

It is perfectly fine to be a fan of an individual player, home or overseas, but if you are then you have to try to be realistic about the quality of the player. There were similar issues on the old Cottage Corner when Halliche arrived. Most people on the message board are fans of the club and have and will be here through all the comings and goings of individual players. Most find excessive love of one player to the point of denigrating the club whatever the player does irritating if not offensive.

1. I never assumed that all supporters on either side of the Atlantic is the same but there it's not like we're all brothers in arms here. It's like a gathering and you keep one at arms length. To be fair, I don't have any connection with Fulham fans and I don't consider any other Fulham supporter a friend. That's because I'm just now hanging around the general fanbase and not necessarily supporting the team in total solitude like I've done for years. However, I tend to be more sympathetic towards the US support because as an American, I do understand the tightrope that US supporters walk. If you don't like the American supporters then that is perfectly fine because at the end of the day, I support the club and not necessarily the supporters.

You are wrong in the respect that everyone is remembered including the extreme. Everybody on this forum I'm sure has in their mind what side of the "battle" that each member is on. Some may not engage but I'm sure there are sympathizers like myself.

2. The problems arise when certain people take things out of context and people are actually willing to not participate in a witch hunt. The supposed "Dempsey Defense League" can't be true if the members aren't defending. You can't defend unless you (in this case Dempsey) was attacked first. Both parties were wrong and it was the best option to wait and see. Now, Dempsey has always been crapped on (He dives too much, he always looks disinterested, takes too many wild shots etc..). That's the nature of the beast but it was held back a little due to his contributions to the club. Now, all bets are off because of his situation.

3. It's perfectly fine to be a fan of a player in silence. However, instead of trying to make people realistic which I think people are doing for the most part. Those who aren't really can't be helped. I suggest you should try not to belittle him. Now, I believe people really believed he is a crappy player and he was a very lucky boy but to be honest. If he wasn't 29 or an American then the £6m received for him could have easily become at least £10m that he's truly worth when it comes to assessing his talents and abilities.

Now, I would perhaps be more forgiving of the criticism as I would believe it's not entirely unfounded if it was last summer. He showed he has really refined his game last season. You're really stretching the support for him. I do believe he has been a top 5 PL era player for Fulham. Very influential player if nothing else and Fulham will be a bottom half team this year, I reckon. If nothing else because the competition has gotten better overall. I hope he does great things for Tottenham, if nothing else to enrage certain people on this board. Dembele (who people are very quick to glorify) heaped praise on Dempsey as a teammate again just like Murphy did post Chelsea match. I would trust their opinion of teammates than any of us.

Your post demonstrates where you are coming from and why we get interminable threads like this.

And you do what I think is a typical low trick of knocking another player, in this case Dembele, to bolster your  argument.

Where did I knock Dembele? I said that the Fulham faithful here are very quick to glorify him. Am I wrong? People will sing on the rooftops about Dembele and believe that he can carry a mountain while running a marathon. He's a good developing player but I'm not going to go on and wax lyrical about him. He was a good developing player at the club and his best years won't be at Fulham.

Quote from: KCat on September 10, 2012, 06:48:10 PM
In truth,  I am not sure why you are apologising Jimbo, Just put on your Demon shirt  and carry on regardless  :54:

Some of the remarks bring to mind the old, old  board .................William Bloke or  Cupid Stunt  anyone ????

Just trying to bring peace to the home front. No point in continuing a pointless argument and Reindeer has as much right to be here as I do. As to the old board, good riddence. Perhaps a few recent refugees from CC brought some of that back. Demon shirt indeed! You know I am just a lovable little fuzzball.  :014:

Quote from: Yellow Jacket on September 10, 2012, 06:55:02 PM

Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on September 10, 2012, 06:49:43 PM

Quote from: Yellow Jacket on September 10, 2012, 04:41:14 PM

Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on September 10, 2012, 03:42:47 PM

Quote from: Yellow Jacket on September 10, 2012, 02:56:15 PM
There is an obvious disconnect between the US supporters and UK (and the rest of the world) supporters. The Dempsey situation just literally just provided a battleground to see how many scalps one can claim. I can understand that one side may feel bad that a certain section of supporters may not be fans of the club but of certain players but I don't see why people would have a shot but it does reveal a deep seated dislike for the US fanbase of the club. On the occasion, I do go to the Cottage. I wear my Dempsey shirt and I try to remain under the radar. Don't talk much, have a nice drink and meal at a local pub then go to the stadium and watch the match. Support the club by myself.

The best solution here is to no longer sign any Americans as a result, no Americans will become a supporter. Then let the current ones die off. :dft012:

This assumes that all US supporters are all alike and all UK supporters are alike and the two groups are antagonistic. There is clearly a spectrum of supporters in both camps. The majority in both camps will be silent or quiet. We tend to remember the most extreme examples.

The problems seem to have arisen when the extreme Dempsey fan-boys said something like "Dempsey is the best player Fulham have ever had", "Dempsey is an honourable man" or "the truth will come out", particularly in a context that is provocative, or when they started blaming Jol or MAF for the whole situation. That sort of stuff is bound to create a reaction. And then those fan-boys saying that the reaction is just because he is/we are American just pours petrol on the flames.

It is perfectly fine to be a fan of an individual player, home or overseas, but if you are then you have to try to be realistic about the quality of the player. There were similar issues on the old Cottage Corner when Halliche arrived. Most people on the message board are fans of the club and have and will be here through all the comings and goings of individual players. Most find excessive love of one player to the point of denigrating the club whatever the player does irritating if not offensive.

1. I never assumed that all supporters on either side of the Atlantic is the same but there it's not like we're all brothers in arms here. It's like a gathering and you keep one at arms length. To be fair, I don't have any connection with Fulham fans and I don't consider any other Fulham supporter a friend. That's because I'm just now hanging around the general fanbase and not necessarily supporting the team in total solitude like I've done for years. However, I tend to be more sympathetic towards the US support because as an American, I do understand the tightrope that US supporters walk. If you don't like the American supporters then that is perfectly fine because at the end of the day, I support the club and not necessarily the supporters.

You are wrong in the respect that everyone is remembered including the extreme. Everybody on this forum I'm sure has in their mind what side of the "battle" that each member is on. Some may not engage but I'm sure there are sympathizers like myself.

2. The problems arise when certain people take things out of context and people are actually willing to not participate in a witch hunt. The supposed "Dempsey Defense League" can't be true if the members aren't defending. You can't defend unless you (in this case Dempsey) was attacked first. Both parties were wrong and it was the best option to wait and see. Now, Dempsey has always been crapped on (He dives too much, he always looks disinterested, takes too many wild shots etc..). That's the nature of the beast but it was held back a little due to his contributions to the club. Now, all bets are off because of his situation.

3. It's perfectly fine to be a fan of a player in silence. However, instead of trying to make people realistic which I think people are doing for the most part. Those who aren't really can't be helped. I suggest you should try not to belittle him. Now, I believe people really believed he is a crappy player and he was a very lucky boy but to be honest. If he wasn't 29 or an American then the £6m received for him could have easily become at least £10m that he's truly worth when it comes to assessing his talents and abilities.

Now, I would perhaps be more forgiving of the criticism as I would believe it's not entirely unfounded if it was last summer. He showed he has really refined his game last season. You're really stretching the support for him. I do believe he has been a top 5 PL era player for Fulham. Very influential player if nothing else and Fulham will be a bottom half team this year, I reckon. If nothing else because the competition has gotten better overall. I hope he does great things for Tottenham, if nothing else to enrage certain people on this board. Dembele (who people are very quick to glorify) heaped praise on Dempsey as a teammate again just like Murphy did post Chelsea match. I would trust their opinion of teammates than any of us.

Your post demonstrates where you are coming from and why we get interminable threads like this.

And you do what I think is a typical low trick of knocking another player, in this case Dembele, to bolster your  argument.

Where did I knock Dembele? I said that the Fulham faithful here are very quick to glorify him. Am I wrong? People will sing on the rooftops about Dembele and believe that he can carry a mountain while running a marathon. He's a good developing player but I'm not going to go on and wax lyrical about him. He was a good developing player at the club and his best years won't be at Fulham.

You did by implying, which you have now confirmed in your new post, that the praise for Dembele was premature and excessive in comparison to that for Dempsey (who you think most people believed was crappy).

Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on September 10, 2012, 07:01:11 PM

Quote from: Yellow Jacket on September 10, 2012, 06:55:02 PM

Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on September 10, 2012, 06:49:43 PM

Quote from: Yellow Jacket on September 10, 2012, 04:41:14 PM

Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on September 10, 2012, 03:42:47 PM

Quote from: Yellow Jacket on September 10, 2012, 02:56:15 PM
There is an obvious disconnect between the US supporters and UK (and the rest of the world) supporters. The Dempsey situation just literally just provided a battleground to see how many scalps one can claim. I can understand that one side may feel bad that a certain section of supporters may not be fans of the club but of certain players but I don't see why people would have a shot but it does reveal a deep seated dislike for the US fanbase of the club. On the occasion, I do go to the Cottage. I wear my Dempsey shirt and I try to remain under the radar. Don't talk much, have a nice drink and meal at a local pub then go to the stadium and watch the match. Support the club by myself.

The best solution here is to no longer sign any Americans as a result, no Americans will become a supporter. Then let the current ones die off. :dft012:

This assumes that all US supporters are all alike and all UK supporters are alike and the two groups are antagonistic. There is clearly a spectrum of supporters in both camps. The majority in both camps will be silent or quiet. We tend to remember the most extreme examples.

The problems seem to have arisen when the extreme Dempsey fan-boys said something like "Dempsey is the best player Fulham have ever had", "Dempsey is an honourable man" or "the truth will come out", particularly in a context that is provocative, or when they started blaming Jol or MAF for the whole situation. That sort of stuff is bound to create a reaction. And then those fan-boys saying that the reaction is just because he is/we are American just pours petrol on the flames.

It is perfectly fine to be a fan of an individual player, home or overseas, but if you are then you have to try to be realistic about the quality of the player. There were similar issues on the old Cottage Corner when Halliche arrived. Most people on the message board are fans of the club and have and will be here through all the comings and goings of individual players. Most find excessive love of one player to the point of denigrating the club whatever the player does irritating if not offensive.

1. I never assumed that all supporters on either side of the Atlantic is the same but there it's not like we're all brothers in arms here. It's like a gathering and you keep one at arms length. To be fair, I don't have any connection with Fulham fans and I don't consider any other Fulham supporter a friend. That's because I'm just now hanging around the general fanbase and not necessarily supporting the team in total solitude like I've done for years. However, I tend to be more sympathetic towards the US support because as an American, I do understand the tightrope that US supporters walk. If you don't like the American supporters then that is perfectly fine because at the end of the day, I support the club and not necessarily the supporters.

You are wrong in the respect that everyone is remembered including the extreme. Everybody on this forum I'm sure has in their mind what side of the "battle" that each member is on. Some may not engage but I'm sure there are sympathizers like myself.

2. The problems arise when certain people take things out of context and people are actually willing to not participate in a witch hunt. The supposed "Dempsey Defense League" can't be true if the members aren't defending. You can't defend unless you (in this case Dempsey) was attacked first. Both parties were wrong and it was the best option to wait and see. Now, Dempsey has always been crapped on (He dives too much, he always looks disinterested, takes too many wild shots etc..). That's the nature of the beast but it was held back a little due to his contributions to the club. Now, all bets are off because of his situation.

3. It's perfectly fine to be a fan of a player in silence. However, instead of trying to make people realistic which I think people are doing for the most part. Those who aren't really can't be helped. I suggest you should try not to belittle him. Now, I believe people really believed he is a crappy player and he was a very lucky boy but to be honest. If he wasn't 29 or an American then the £6m received for him could have easily become at least £10m that he's truly worth when it comes to assessing his talents and abilities.

Now, I would perhaps be more forgiving of the criticism as I would believe it's not entirely unfounded if it was last summer. He showed he has really refined his game last season. You're really stretching the support for him. I do believe he has been a top 5 PL era player for Fulham. Very influential player if nothing else and Fulham will be a bottom half team this year, I reckon. If nothing else because the competition has gotten better overall. I hope he does great things for Tottenham, if nothing else to enrage certain people on this board. Dembele (who people are very quick to glorify) heaped praise on Dempsey as a teammate again just like Murphy did post Chelsea match. I would trust their opinion of teammates than any of us.

Your post demonstrates where you are coming from and why we get interminable threads like this.

And you do what I think is a typical low trick of knocking another player, in this case Dembele, to bolster your  argument.

Where did I knock Dembele? I said that the Fulham faithful here are very quick to glorify him. Am I wrong? People will sing on the rooftops about Dembele and believe that he can carry a mountain while running a marathon. He's a good developing player but I'm not going to go on and wax lyrical about him. He was a good developing player at the club and his best years won't be at Fulham.

You did by implying, which you have now confirmed in your new post, that the praise for Dembele was premature and excessive in comparison to that for Dempsey (who you think most people believed was crappy).

You're reading too much into it. I never said it was premature. I was saying that people are quick to praise him. If you ask a Fulham fan about Dembele. You would quickly hear praise about him as a player. In fact, I never compared him to Dempsey at all let alone in that respect. I mentioned Dembele because he is obviously pleased about Dempsey joining him at Tottenham that is all.

If a player like Dembele who is loved by Fulham fans thinks highly of him as a player. It's funny that the fans who have seen Dempsey's entire career at Fulham unlike Dembele don't rate him as a great player. It's confusing because he is a player who wasn't as naturally gifted but worked his tail off to get where he is. The fact that he scored 17 goals in a PL season shocked many of the fans. Thank goodness the fans don't determine how far he gets in his career because he wouldn't even make it in the PL if it was up to the fans.

Quote from: 1879 on September 10, 2012, 05:16:44 PM
Hi Mods,

I usually hate when threads are locked for a little heated debate, but this is no longer a debate and much more of a slaging match
(He Said/She said/ I Didn't Say/ Why did you say etc). This is one is actually ripe for a locking. If you two have such issue with one another make it a personal chat and try and work things out. We are all in the same boat, just different sides of the pond.  :protest card:

Hear, Hear

Quote from: Yellow Jacket on September 10, 2012, 07:11:27 PM
:
:
:

You're reading too much into it. I never said it was premature. I was saying that people are quick to praise him. If you ask a Fulham fan about Dembele. You would quickly hear praise about him as a player. In fact, I never compared him to Dempsey at all let alone in that respect. I mentioned Dembele because he is obviously pleased about Dempsey joining him at Tottenham that is all.

If a player like Dembele who is loved by Fulham fans thinks highly of him as a player. It's funny that the fans who have seen Dempsey's entire career at Fulham unlike Dembele don't rate him as a great player. It's confusing because he is a player who wasn't as naturally gifted but worked his tail off to get where he is. The fact that he scored 17 goals in a PL season shocked many of the fans. Thank goodness the fans don't determine how far he gets in his career because he wouldn't even make it in the PL if it was up to the fans.

I give up.

Yes, we fans have been holding Dempsey back for years and it's only because he is an American.  :dft009:

Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on September 10, 2012, 07:38:13 PM

Quote from: Yellow Jacket on September 10, 2012, 07:11:27 PM
:
:
:

You're reading too much into it. I never said it was premature. I was saying that people are quick to praise him. If you ask a Fulham fan about Dembele. You would quickly hear praise about him as a player. In fact, I never compared him to Dempsey at all let alone in that respect. I mentioned Dembele because he is obviously pleased about Dempsey joining him at Tottenham that is all.

If a player like Dembele who is loved by Fulham fans thinks highly of him as a player. It's funny that the fans who have seen Dempsey's entire career at Fulham unlike Dembele don't rate him as a great player. It's confusing because he is a player who wasn't as naturally gifted but worked his tail off to get where he is. The fact that he scored 17 goals in a PL season shocked many of the fans. Thank goodness the fans don't determine how far he gets in his career because he wouldn't even make it in the PL if it was up to the fans.

I give up.

Yes, we fans have been holding Dempsey back for years and it's only because he is an American.  :dft009:
[/quote]

Finally, the situation is settled.  089.gif

You never started but if you wanted to believe that then that's fine but I never even implied that.

Quote from: Wimbledon_White on September 07, 2012, 12:46:52 PM
'Regarded as a human dynamo'? What planet are these yanks on? Ridiculous.

Do you know what a Dynamo is?

Also... the writer of the story Wayne Vesey is indeed English... and full of crap as well... he makes up story after story.

Speaking about the allegation that he had refused to play for the Cottagers in order to push a move through, he said: "I did not refuse to play. There were some things that were said that were not true."

I am REALLY enjoying that "ignore button."  yee-haw! yee-haw!

It's getting circular again. Surely enough has been said on the subject of the ex-Fulham player in question?

You might as well let it stay open so people can spew what they wish about Dempsey. I wouldn't lock it because like you said, the debate will continue elsewhere. Eventually, people will get bored and the thread will descend into the abyss.

The Abyss was a brilliant Sci Fi movie a few years back, at least I thought so. Any other classics brought to mind by this thread?

Hatter "hijackingbeforeitcrashes, isit" Don

I was busy over the weekend, went to see a couple of friends on Saturday, then another couple on Sunday, lots of travelling, lots of alcohol, so no time to browse this board, plus the supervisor at work is back from throwing a sickie, so no access there either, so I've missed out on all this until I logged on this evening.

It has been a very entertaining ten minutes, catching up.

078.gif

Event Horizan or Solaris

Quote from: HatterDon on September 10, 2012, 10:39:20 PM
The Abyss was a brilliant Sci Fi movie a few years back, at least I thought so. Any other classics brought to mind by this thread?

Hatter "hijackingbeforeitcrashes, isit" Don

Source Code or Groundhog Day

I think WS Churchill got it about right (being half American, he would be able to remain neutral):

"The modes of thoughts of men, the whole outlook on affairs, the grouping of parties all have encountered violent and tremendous changes in the deluge of the world. But as the deluge subsides and the waters fall short we see the dreary steeples of Mousa and Clinton emerging once again."

Quote from: Berserker on September 10, 2012, 11:51:52 PM
Event Horizan or Solaris

I think I'll suggest Galaxy Quest firstly because it isn't as dark as the above films, but also (very Fulham related in the current climate) because it shows a bunch of perceived no-hopers succeeding in the face of adversity.  092.gif