We (england) are fighting a lost cause when it comes to this. People need to realise that England is by far the most multi cultural country if not only in Europe but the World. We have been brought up to accept and embrace different backgrounds, cultures and colours of skin, that's not to say there is no racism in the UK but its safe to say its very much the minority. Its taken decades to get where we are. England not going to Serbia for matches, Serbia getting banned from competitions is not going to change the culture of a nation. I'm not sure what you can do in all fairness but when you have the president of the country and the manager saying that it was Danny Roses fault and there was no racism, whats the point??
They seem to of completely passed the book. Unfortunately it seems that a lot of countries will not challenge their views and this is something we will have to tolerate and not take for granted in our own country. We've done well to get to where we are and its very good that it is only the minority that needs stamping out, shame we have to accept that other countries aren't willing to join us and the players will no doubt have to tolerate it for many generations.
Humans are tribal and so will always find ways to divide themselves up against others. One of the reasons I am no fan of International sports. If it isn't colour or sex it is physical appearance. In this Country we hide behind political correctness which puts on the veneer of good behaviour. But sadly there will always be an undercurrent of abuse against others.
Is there an answer to it? No but there MUST be a way to make people respect others whatever they look like. Sadly tribal Human Beings are the hardest to communicate with.
Are you seriously using the demographic of the football fan, particularly one from Serbia, to make a sweeping statement about Europe?
Harsh sentences help to recreate a society. Belgium was not exactly the most 'racist-free' country of Europe in the seventies and eighties (a lot of swear words in Flemish are essentially linked to nationalities/races) but stiff penal and financial sentences have already pushed the mainstream of the population into accepting differences and considering them to be as Belgian/Flemish as we are. You will always have a minority which causes havoc (in Britain as well) and the international organizations (UEFA, FIFA) will be able to differentiate between structural or incidental racism...
So really to answer your question, what is the point in pointing the finger at Serbia, when a country likes ours that does promote racial awareness and accepting the minority still have the likes of the BNP,EDF,EDL etc...
I find it staggering how a couple of idiots at that match have suddenly made you accuse the whole of Serbia and eastern europe as a problem.
Eastern Europe is just as bad as here mate in some walks of life.
Quote from: cottage cheese on October 18, 2012, 02:09:36 PM
So really to answer your question, what is the point in pointing the finger at Serbia, when a country likes ours that does promote racial awareness and accepting the minority still have the likes of the BNP,EDF,EDL etc...
To risk broadening the topic here, surely if we accept the minority, we should also accept the existence of the BNP and associated extremist lunatics, or are we only supposed to accept minorities who we approve of? We can accept their existence and monitor them closely, and come down on them like a ton of bricks if they try to act on their beliefs, but thank God we DO have them, if only to remind us how despicable those people are.
The point of pointing the finger (do you see what I did, there?) at Serbia follows the same logic. The publicly expressed beliefs may or may not be widespread in Serbia, or the rest of the world (other countries may dispute that bit), the thing is, once they are openly displayed we can, and should, make it clear that we expect them to do something about it, and if they won't, then we ask UEFA to do something.
There is an internationally recognised standard of behaviour, which we and others have signed up to, if we can live up to it, so should others. I see nothing wrong with demanding that.
Quote from: Jambo on October 18, 2012, 01:47:19 PM
We (england) are fighting a lost cause when it comes to this. People need to realise that England is by far the most multi cultural country if not only in Europe but the World.
I think the sentiment is honest enough here, but statements like this are part of the problem. England is a wonderfully multicultural country but to claim a monopoly on cultural harmony is a bit disingenuous, it is undeniable that England is a nation with some serious ethnic tensions. Its not necessarily untrue that England is relatively enlightened in these matters, but by exaggerating and laying a false claim to moral supremacy it makes your attitude appear condescending and hypocritical to outsiders and weakens your authority to make such claims. I can understand your frustration, I don't want to come across as attacking England in any way, I just think that sweeping generalizations really don't help your case.
Quote from: Rupert on October 18, 2012, 03:06:31 PM
Quote from: cottage cheese on October 18, 2012, 02:09:36 PM
So really to answer your question, what is the point in pointing the finger at Serbia, when a country likes ours that does promote racial awareness and accepting the minority still have the likes of the BNP,EDF,EDL etc...
To risk broadening the topic here, surely if we accept the minority, we should also accept the existence of the BNP and associated extremist lunatics, or are we only supposed to accept minorities who we approve of? We can accept their existence and monitor them closely, and come down on them like a ton of bricks if they try to act on their beliefs, but thank God we DO have them, if only to remind us how despicable those people are.
The point of pointing the finger (do you see what I did, there?) at Serbia follows the same logic. The publicly expressed beliefs may or may not be widespread in Serbia, or the rest of the world (other countries may dispute that bit), the thing is, once they are openly displayed we can, and should, make it clear that we expect them to do something about it, and if they won't, then we ask UEFA to do something.
There is an internationally recognised standard of behaviour, which we and others have signed up to, if we can live up to it, so should others. I see nothing wrong with demanding that.
the point I was making was that the Uk is exactly the same, yes we do not see it at football games thank god but it appears in everyday life at times.
One must realise that racism is not bound to just sport. Uefa,Fifa can only do so much. Banning a team wont do anything at all. Its the nature of society at the end of the day.
It is in the minority of ever country and as soon as it gets highlighted you have people making sweeping statements about Eastern Europe etc....Im sure there was a incident involving Bolton and Millwall a few weeks ago about a player being racially abused? (or did i read it wrong?)
We can demand Uefa to step in but really what can they do? Its a really tough answer
Quote from: Mr_Moon on October 18, 2012, 02:02:33 PM
Are you seriously using the demographic of the football fan, particularly one from Serbia, to make a sweeping statement about Europe?
No I'm not. Which is why I mentioned the president of their FA completely denying that there is a problem at all. It was neither a sweeping statement about Europe but I will say that in terms of racial awareness and racism, due to the multi-cultural make up of the UK we have taken bigger strides than the rest of Europe and I'm not just talking about football. NO, I'm not saying the whole of Europe is racist and NO I'm not I'm saying that there is no racists in England, far from it. I was merely pointing out that racism is a much bigger problem in Europe and it is in Eastern Europe especially (someone tell me thats not the case) than it is here and until they recognise that themselves then there is not much the FA or letters from the PM can do about it. So before everyone jumps to massive conclusions of my initial post (to late!!). That was my point. :028: :028:
We do have racists in the UK, it is one of the qualities of a truly democratic society that ALL points of view are allowed to exist, are not driven underground where they can fester. When they turn belief into action, they are hit by the authorities.
In this specific case, where a sizable proportion of the Serbian crowd have racially abused non-Caucasian players, the least we can expect, in a civilised world, is the Serbian authorities to at least protest that it was not representative of thier people. Instead, they turn the spotlight on an England player for showing the Serbian crowd disrespect.
Now, I may be very old fashioned in this, but in my world respect is earned.
So, IF the Serbs announce they are appalled by their supporters behaviour (minority or majority) and announce steps to reduce this sort of thing in future, all is good. They can use video evidence to hand out lifetime bans to guilty supporters. It will not stop it, but it will start to stop it.
If the Serbs bury their heads, quite simply, they should be banned from international football for a period of time. When they return they are on probation, any repeat behaviour, they get banned again.
Can this work? Well, it hit our hooligan problem hard when Liverpool got all of us kicked out of Europe for half a decade, as it made our authorities do something about the problem.
Quote from: Rupert on October 18, 2012, 04:03:31 PM
We do have racists in the UK, it is one of the qualities of a truly democratic society that ALL points of view are allowed to exist, are not driven underground where they can fester. When they turn belief into action, they are hit by the authorities.
In this specific case, where a sizable proportion of the Serbian crowd have racially abused non-Caucasian players, the least we can expect, in a civilised world, is the Serbian authorities to at least protest that it was not representative of thier people. Instead, they turn the spotlight on an England player for showing the Serbian crowd disrespect.
Now, I may be very old fashioned in this, but in my world respect is earned.
So, IF the Serbs announce they are appalled by their supporters behaviour (minority or majority) and announce steps to reduce this sort of thing in future, all is good. They can use video evidence to hand out lifetime bans to guilty supporters. It will not stop it, but it will start to stop it.
If the Serbs bury their heads, quite simply, they should be banned from international football for a period of time. When they return they are on probation, any repeat behaviour, they get banned again.
Can this work? Well, it hit our hooligan problem hard when Liverpool got all of us kicked out of Europe for half a decade, as it made our authorities do something about the problem.
Agreed
It's not as simple as banning the national team or fining the FA, we're talking about social acceptance which is something that can only be brought about by education or exposure. It's not exclusive to Serbia and thankfully there are plenty of educated Serbs who condemn this sort of behaviour. It doesn't help that football has been in great decline over the past two decades, so much so that only the hardcore (which goes hand in hand with extremists) regularly turn up and have a majority in the stands.
Enforcing bans on fans will be hard though, this isn't England or Germany with a fantastic infrastructure. What I'd like to see is FIFA/UEFA work hard with the FAs of offending countries so that they can effectively ban troublesome fans, even if it means that attendances will be low. The Serb FA shot themselves in the foot with that statement, it was a chance to form a relationship with not only UEFA, but also other nations' FAs. I expect that games will be played behind closed doors, there's no doubt about that although I wouldn't be surprised if Serbia was given a ban as they have a lot of baggage.
Fan culture needs to change. Promotion of the game as being family friendly could bring the crowds back. Both of the big two Belgrade clubs in Serbia average around 10k fans a game, which suggests that they could improve fan culture a lot given past attendances. Granted that the football in Serbia is dire, it will prove harder than floating ideas around on a football forum. International matches of all levels should be played in top stadiums with the infrastructure to allocate tickets over the internet so they know who is buying.
I don't want to ban the national teams as it's unfair on the other sides who weren't involved. It would be akin to banning English sides from Europe because of Liverpool at the end of the 80s. Banning the Serbs only add fuel to the fire, especially as we're talking about a nation here who is still bitter about political actions over the past two decades. Football is the best way to break down barriers, so I'd hope that we could figure out a solution that worked best to everyone's interests.
Re: The original post, Canadian Cottager sums up my sentiments perfectly.
Further, the countries which used to be part of Yugoslavia and the USSR have basically suffered from identity crises since Tito's death and the fall of communism respectively.
Those countries are very susceptible to any movements which give their lives meaning, normally taking the form of secular nationalism or religious fundamentalism. Yet due to the secular nature of the Marxism-Leninism communist ideology which had governed every aspect of their daily lives for decades, the religious fundamentalism was always never going to happen, unlike nationalism and an obsession with an us and them attitude has become entrenched in certain sections of Eastern Europe as a whole.
The countries which people are always quick to point the finger at are relatively young in their current state. There is a lot of potential there so taking the ivory tower stance isn't helpful.
I think one of the issues that plagues this country still and is a problem is that yes we are a multi ethnical society but there doesnt feel any togetherness amongst us in this country still. A typical example is when i was in college we had a massive canteen area where everyone would have lunch and hang out and each enthnicity would be sitting or standing in a different part of the college, never together which confused me and still saddens me to this day. It was so glaringly obvious and it happened every day. I still think that we are just different cultures living in one country. I dont think or feel there is a unity or loyalty to the country really. I dont want to get into this too much, as its a very touchy subject but unless people start to come together in this country and the secret feelings are lost amongst those that have them - im including every race here - then things wont improve.
Thats why i love sport though, brings everyone together and everyone is focused on sport, nothing else.
look at john terry. We have our own issues at hand that still that need resolving. Thats why I jumped at Jambo a bit for mentioning Eastern Europe. It is bad and in no way to I condone those actions but I feel it is very hypocritical that we highlight other countries when we have it here in the news and media.
Its got to a point that even jason roberts has stepped in!
Quote from: cottage cheese on October 18, 2012, 04:34:39 PM
look at john terry. We have our own issues at hand that still that need resolving. Thats why I jumped at Jambo a bit for mentioning Eastern Europe. It is bad and in no way to I condone those actions but I feel it is very hypocritical that we highlight other countries when we have it here in the news and media.
Its got to a point that even jason roberts has stepped in!
John Terry, Suarez, Sol Campbell accusing the FA of racism, Liverpool fans, Millwall fans (vs Bolton), abuse on Twitter to James Vaughn from a Norwich fan. All from the past year that I can think of.
Quote from: Mr_Moon on October 18, 2012, 04:43:01 PM
Quote from: cottage cheese on October 18, 2012, 04:34:39 PM
look at john terry. We have our own issues at hand that still that need resolving. Thats why I jumped at Jambo a bit for mentioning Eastern Europe. It is bad and in no way to I condone those actions but I feel it is very hypocritical that we highlight other countries when we have it here in the news and media.
Its got to a point that even jason roberts has stepped in!
John Terry, Suarez, Sol Campbell accusing the FA of racism, Liverpool fans, Millwall fans (vs Bolton), abuse on Twitter to James Vaughn from a Norwich fan. All from the past year that I can think of.
So we shouldn't talk about racism because it happens in the UK?
hmm...
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on October 18, 2012, 04:54:14 PM
Quote from: Mr_Moon on October 18, 2012, 04:43:01 PM
Quote from: cottage cheese on October 18, 2012, 04:34:39 PM
look at john terry. We have our own issues at hand that still that need resolving. Thats why I jumped at Jambo a bit for mentioning Eastern Europe. It is bad and in no way to I condone those actions but I feel it is very hypocritical that we highlight other countries when we have it here in the news and media.
Its got to a point that even jason roberts has stepped in!
John Terry, Suarez, Sol Campbell accusing the FA of racism, Liverpool fans, Millwall fans (vs Bolton), abuse on Twitter to James Vaughn from a Norwich fan. All from the past year that I can think of.
So we shouldn't talk about racism because it happens in the UK?
hmm...
Hmm...looks like you have missed the point.
The point I am making is that the media reaction to Serbia has exploded. Consider this compared to the attention Sordell recieved when he claimed to be racially abused at Millwall...
We have the problem just as bad here and I think personally it is hypocritical, ignorant and rude that threads are started with Racism in Eastern Europe when quite frankly the problem exists just as prominently here.
We should highlight it but not point out and label certain countries etcc...that does not solve anything
Quote from: cottage cheese on October 18, 2012, 04:58:55 PM
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on October 18, 2012, 04:54:14 PM
Quote from: Mr_Moon on October 18, 2012, 04:43:01 PM
Quote from: cottage cheese on October 18, 2012, 04:34:39 PM
look at john terry. We have our own issues at hand that still that need resolving. Thats why I jumped at Jambo a bit for mentioning Eastern Europe. It is bad and in no way to I condone those actions but I feel it is very hypocritical that we highlight other countries when we have it here in the news and media.
Its got to a point that even jason roberts has stepped in!
John Terry, Suarez, Sol Campbell accusing the FA of racism, Liverpool fans, Millwall fans (vs Bolton), abuse on Twitter to James Vaughn from a Norwich fan. All from the past year that I can think of.
So we shouldn't talk about racism because it happens in the UK?
hmm...
Hmm...looks like you have missed the point.
The point I am making is that the media reaction to Serbia has exploded. Consider this compared to the attention Sordell recieved when he claimed to be racially abused at Millwall...
We have the problem just as bad here and I think personally it is hypocritical, ignorant and rude that threads are started with Racism in Eastern Europe when quite frankly the problem exists just as prominently here.
We should highlight it but not point out and label certain countries etcc...that does not solve anything
I am sorry, but this is rubbish.
There is no doubt that racism is still an issue in the UK, but to compare the UK to the post-Soviet European states is ridiculous. The scales are completely different.
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on October 18, 2012, 05:18:25 PM
Quote from: cottage cheese on October 18, 2012, 04:58:55 PM
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on October 18, 2012, 04:54:14 PM
Quote from: Mr_Moon on October 18, 2012, 04:43:01 PM
Quote from: cottage cheese on October 18, 2012, 04:34:39 PM
look at john terry. We have our own issues at hand that still that need resolving. Thats why I jumped at Jambo a bit for mentioning Eastern Europe. It is bad and in no way to I condone those actions but I feel it is very hypocritical that we highlight other countries when we have it here in the news and media.
Its got to a point that even jason roberts has stepped in!
John Terry, Suarez, Sol Campbell accusing the FA of racism, Liverpool fans, Millwall fans (vs Bolton), abuse on Twitter to James Vaughn from a Norwich fan. All from the past year that I can think of.
So we shouldn't talk about racism because it happens in the UK?
hmm...
Hmm...looks like you have missed the point.
The point I am making is that the media reaction to Serbia has exploded. Consider this compared to the attention Sordell recieved when he claimed to be racially abused at Millwall...
We have the problem just as bad here and I think personally it is hypocritical, ignorant and rude that threads are started with Racism in Eastern Europe when quite frankly the problem exists just as prominently here.
We should highlight it but not point out and label certain countries etcc...that does not solve anything
I am sorry, but this is rubbish.
There is no doubt that racism is still an issue in the UK, but to compare the UK to the post-Soviet European states is ridiculous. The scales are completely different.
Totally agree. Yes there is a problem in England, i think we've established that. However comparing an idiot fan on twitter to a full Serbian stadium is ridiculous. Another difference is that even will little or no evidence Suarez received a 12 game ban for using the N word. At least we acknowledge the problem here. When was the last time to could audible hear racist chants on the tv in England?? My point is racism exists in ALL society but the scale of the problem, which my original email eluded to is like chalk and cheese.
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on October 18, 2012, 05:18:25 PM
Quote from: cottage cheese on October 18, 2012, 04:58:55 PM
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on October 18, 2012, 04:54:14 PM
Quote from: Mr_Moon on October 18, 2012, 04:43:01 PM
Quote from: cottage cheese on October 18, 2012, 04:34:39 PM
look at john terry. We have our own issues at hand that still that need resolving. Thats why I jumped at Jambo a bit for mentioning Eastern Europe. It is bad and in no way to I condone those actions but I feel it is very hypocritical that we highlight other countries when we have it here in the news and media.
Its got to a point that even jason roberts has stepped in!
John Terry, Suarez, Sol Campbell accusing the FA of racism, Liverpool fans, Millwall fans (vs Bolton), abuse on Twitter to James Vaughn from a Norwich fan. All from the past year that I can think of.
So we shouldn't talk about racism because it happens in the UK?
hmm...
Hmm...looks like you have missed the point.
The point I am making is that the media reaction to Serbia has exploded. Consider this compared to the attention Sordell recieved when he claimed to be racially abused at Millwall...
We have the problem just as bad here and I think personally it is hypocritical, ignorant and rude that threads are started with Racism in Eastern Europe when quite frankly the problem exists just as prominently here.
We should highlight it but not point out and label certain countries etcc...that does not solve anything
I am sorry, but this is rubbish.
There is no doubt that racism is still an issue in the UK, but to compare the UK to the post-Soviet European states is ridiculous. The scales are completely different.
Firstly I am polish and I am well aware of what post soviet rule did to this countries
My issue is that an incident occurs in Eastern europe and the debate reopens with europe is racist blah blah. We even have a thread on here about it. When vaughn was racially abused did people start a thread about it along with the sordell incident.
Its something we all want stamped out!
It should also be worth pointing out that the countries in question don't have the same exposure to black people as Britain does. We have our own problems. It was only on Saturday that we had a load of football thugs march on the streets of Rotherham against Muslims (lets not pretend they only hate 'extremists').
You know when you start a thread and wish you didn't??? Me, right now!
That will work....
UEFA have fined Lazio £32,500 for the racist conduct of their fans during the Europa League game v Spurs at White Hart Lane
Quote from: Jambo on October 18, 2012, 05:54:16 PM
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on October 18, 2012, 05:18:25 PM
Quote from: cottage cheese on October 18, 2012, 04:58:55 PM
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on October 18, 2012, 04:54:14 PM
Quote from: Mr_Moon on October 18, 2012, 04:43:01 PM
Quote from: cottage cheese on October 18, 2012, 04:34:39 PM
look at john terry. We have our own issues at hand that still that need resolving. Thats why I jumped at Jambo a bit for mentioning Eastern Europe. It is bad and in no way to I condone those actions but I feel it is very hypocritical that we highlight other countries when we have it here in the news and media.
Its got to a point that even jason roberts has stepped in!
John Terry, Suarez, Sol Campbell accusing the FA of racism, Liverpool fans, Millwall fans (vs Bolton), abuse on Twitter to James Vaughn from a Norwich fan. All from the past year that I can think of.
So we shouldn't talk about racism because it happens in the UK?
hmm...
Hmm...looks like you have missed the point.
The point I am making is that the media reaction to Serbia has exploded. Consider this compared to the attention Sordell recieved when he claimed to be racially abused at Millwall...
We have the problem just as bad here and I think personally it is hypocritical, ignorant and rude that threads are started with Racism in Eastern Europe when quite frankly the problem exists just as prominently here.
We should highlight it but not point out and label certain countries etcc...that does not solve anything
I am sorry, but this is rubbish.
There is no doubt that racism is still an issue in the UK, but to compare the UK to the post-Soviet European states is ridiculous. The scales are completely different.
Another difference is that even will little or no evidence Suarez received a 12 game ban for using the N word.
Never used the n-word. Negro simply means black in Spanish, rude but not even close to the weight of the n-word in English.
Quote from: CanadianCottager on October 18, 2012, 07:03:07 PM
Quote from: Jambo on October 18, 2012, 05:54:16 PM
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on October 18, 2012, 05:18:25 PM
Quote from: cottage cheese on October 18, 2012, 04:58:55 PM
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on October 18, 2012, 04:54:14 PM
Quote from: Mr_Moon on October 18, 2012, 04:43:01 PM
Quote from: cottage cheese on October 18, 2012, 04:34:39 PM
look at john terry. We have our own issues at hand that still that need resolving. Thats why I jumped at Jambo a bit for mentioning Eastern Europe. It is bad and in no way to I condone those actions but I feel it is very hypocritical that we highlight other countries when we have it here in the news and media.
Its got to a point that even jason roberts has stepped in!
John Terry, Suarez, Sol Campbell accusing the FA of racism, Liverpool fans, Millwall fans (vs Bolton), abuse on Twitter to James Vaughn from a Norwich fan. All from the past year that I can think of.
So we shouldn't talk about racism because it happens in the UK?
hmm...
Hmm...looks like you have missed the point.
The point I am making is that the media reaction to Serbia has exploded. Consider this compared to the attention Sordell recieved when he claimed to be racially abused at Millwall...
We have the problem just as bad here and I think personally it is hypocritical, ignorant and rude that threads are started with Racism in Eastern Europe when quite frankly the problem exists just as prominently here.
We should highlight it but not point out and label certain countries etcc...that does not solve anything
I am sorry, but this is rubbish.
There is no doubt that racism is still an issue in the UK, but to compare the UK to the post-Soviet European states is ridiculous. The scales are completely different.
Another difference is that even will little or no evidence Suarez received a 12 game ban for using the N word.
Never used the n-word. Negro simply means black in Spanish, rude but not even close to the weight of the n-word in English.
Negrito, wasn't it?
Now you're bringing the word "black" and the connotation of "boy" (which is/was a condescending term for African-Americans, especially in the South) together. Bad combo, changes things.
Quote from: CanadianCottager on October 18, 2012, 07:03:07 PM
Quote from: Jambo on October 18, 2012, 05:54:16 PM
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on October 18, 2012, 05:18:25 PM
Quote from: cottage cheese on October 18, 2012, 04:58:55 PM
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on October 18, 2012, 04:54:14 PM
Quote from: Mr_Moon on October 18, 2012, 04:43:01 PM
Quote from: cottage cheese on October 18, 2012, 04:34:39 PM
look at john terry. We have our own issues at hand that still that need resolving. Thats why I jumped at Jambo a bit for mentioning Eastern Europe. It is bad and in no way to I condone those actions but I feel it is very hypocritical that we highlight other countries when we have it here in the news and media.
Its got to a point that even jason roberts has stepped in!
John Terry, Suarez, Sol Campbell accusing the FA of racism, Liverpool fans, Millwall fans (vs Bolton), abuse on Twitter to James Vaughn from a Norwich fan. All from the past year that I can think of.
So we shouldn't talk about racism because it happens in the UK?
hmm...
Hmm...looks like you have missed the point.
The point I am making is that the media reaction to Serbia has exploded. Consider this compared to the attention Sordell recieved when he claimed to be racially abused at Millwall...
We have the problem just as bad here and I think personally it is hypocritical, ignorant and rude that threads are started with Racism in Eastern Europe when quite frankly the problem exists just as prominently here.
We should highlight it but not point out and label certain countries etcc...that does not solve anything
I am sorry, but this is rubbish.
There is no doubt that racism is still an issue in the UK, but to compare the UK to the post-Soviet European states is ridiculous. The scales are completely different.
Another difference is that even will little or no evidence Suarez received a 12 game ban for using the N word.
Never used the n-word. Negro simply means black in Spanish, rude but not even close to the weight of the n-word in English.
I know you're being accurate here, but there's no doubting the meaning behind it. He said something he shouldn't have (allegedly),....something he knows he's not allowed to say. And, he said it to provoke a reaction.
Deserves what he got. Even if one were to forget about the vulgarity of it, he still deserves the suspension for being stupid enough to say it knowing what's happened with other players. Put his team in a bad spot.
Quote from: bmasar on October 18, 2012, 07:55:37 PM
Negrito, wasn't it?
Now you're bringing the word "black" and the connotation of "boy" (which is/was a condescending term for African-Americans, especially in the South) together. Bad combo, changes things.
Totally different cultural context to both Evra (Senegalese) and Suarez (Uruguayan), and I think I remember Evra saying it was Negro, if it was negrito, it becomes more condescending as -ito is diminutive.
Quote from: ToodlesMcToot on October 18, 2012, 08:20:34 PM
I know you're being accurate here, but there's no doubting the meaning behind it. He said something he shouldn't have (allegedly),....something he knows he's not allowed to say. And, he said it to provoke a reaction.
Deserves what he got. Even if one were to forget about the vulgarity of it, he still deserves the suspension for being stupid enough to say it knowing what's happened with other players. Put his team in a bad spot.
I reckon it was his pig-ignorance of the different racial dynamics in England. I think what he got handed down with was harsh given the offense in itself, but he's not the nicest character so I can understand how his reputation preceded him here. What I really disliked about the whole situation was that someone who knew full well what he was saying and how it would be interpreted (John Terry) got away with (comparatively) a slap on the wrist. Makes me wonder if Aguero has a point about there being different rules for foreign players.