Jol Out crowd- you are all immature. I am just going to say it. Fulham have an average of 10th since our arrival into the EPL. I will guarantee that we are around that position again by the end of the season. We will NOT get relegated. It's just not going to happen. Stop calling out to sack a manager with plenty of experience and skill. Please stop crying. We are Fulham - every game is a roller coaster...AND WE LOVE IT.
I love you all.
Mike
Try turning up paying £35-£60 every week to watch the pathetic dross being served up and see if your opinion changes.
I dont want Jol out but I want him to earn his money and sort it out on the pitch.
Quote from: leonffc on January 15, 2013, 06:06:53 AM
Try turning up paying £35-£60 every week to watch the pathetic dross being served up and see if your opinion changes.
I dont want Jol out but I want him to earn his money and sort it out on the pitch.
I think you are spot on with that Leon
Quote of the day already
Quote from: leonffc on January 15, 2013, 06:06:53 AM
Try turning up paying £35-£60 every week to watch the pathetic dross being served up and see if your opinion changes.
I dont want Jol out but I want him to earn his money and sort it out on the pitch.
At least you're realistic and make sense..Kicking him out isn't the issue- but they need to work harder.
I think most people think it would be a bad idea for him to go at this moment in the season. But I can see him going at the end of the season if things are sorted out soon.
I don't have answers but I don't like what I'm seeing.
This would be the worst possible time to sack a manager but if we carry on as we are we will sleepwalk complacently towards relegation.
Our average League position over the last few years won't act as a protective blanket.
Maoconnor
Absurd post.
"I will guarantee that we are around that position [10th] again by the end of the season".
Who do you think you are, God? You may hope we finish around 10th, you may forecast that we do, and you may of course turn out to be right. But "guarantee" - merely shows immaturity and ignorance.
There are clearly two basic schools of thought on this board. Some, like you, see Jol, as a manager with "experience and skill" taking us, albeit with glitches, to the promised land of fluid attacking football and a potential top six place. Others, like me, see him as a manager with no man management skill and little tactical understanding who has dismantled the best Premiership squad we have ever had and reduced us, all too often, to a shambles on the pitch and as a consequence likely to be in a relegation battle.
Time will tell, and if we are relegated (or come close to it), fear not, your post will come back to haunt you. Equally, if Jol manages to find a player or two who magically galvanise the squad into a team capable of winning matches, and we end up around the middle of the table or higher, he will have achieved more than we critics expect and be entitled to some respect as a result.
As to timing, what is needed now, in my view, is confidence rebuilding, something which I fear Jol simply hasn't the competence to achieve. A change now, to the right new manager, would do that by removing the baleful influence of an incompetent and substituting at the very least a manager who knows what he is trying to do and what needs to be done to win points in the Premiership. I can think of at least three appointments that would make me cheer - even without having to resort to trying to poach either Wigan's or WBA's current managers, who would also be excellent choices. (In order of loudness of cheer, first Danny Murphy, second Kevin Keegan resurrected and third Roberto Di Matteo.)
We all support the same side and want the same thing. We just don't agree with how to get it. Jol, bless him, has been ill served by the club. However the basics in the team are not there. One could see us buying (well we can't because we have no money) all sorts of players. But elderly players get injured, young players are inconsistant and the players we need are too expensive. However we could buy a few great players and still end up not having a shot or not being able to pass a ball or take a corner or free kick.
If Jol has no money and reminds us we are not Real Madrid and then tells us to expect more of the same. I think it would only be fair to bring in somebody who has a less negative attitude and can teach players to pass, take free kicks, have shots.
We may still lose but at least we will look as if we are having a go.
Totally agree with oakeshott but not sure Keegan is either still up for it, or interested. Anyone guaranteeing we finish in the top ten instantly lose all credibility.
Yes we are all immature, just remember that you are talking to people on here who have been supporting this club since they were immature . When a Johnny come lately starts stating the " our arrival into the EPl , were you supporting Fulham then? had you even heard of us? As Leon states try paying to watch this dross week in week out instead of stuck in front of a TV or a stream and then tell us we are immature,
Do not forget all you doubters We are Fulham, Believe.
I don't think you'll make enemies, we are fulham supporters and entiteled to our own opinions.
Actually the Jol out brigade so called put forward reasoned, rational discussion as to why he is taking us in the wrong direction. It is not so much results, but performances, bizarre tactics, substitutions and a general impression that we are going backwards quickly that is at issue.
Those in favour of Jol not unreasonably point to the shambles at the start of last season and how we subsequently picked up, and then have blind faith it will be alright this time too.
I do actually think we would benefit from a change although i have not actually called for his head (well I might of in a fit of distress and just can't remember at the moment) but changing now is also a risk and we would need to have a top class man ready to take over.
This is like rolling a dice, because we have averaged 10th before doesn't mean we can't go down. forrest are two times european cup winners, leeds semi finalists etc etc and they are in the lower leagues, the next game is the mst important!
Quote from: epsomraver on January 15, 2013, 10:02:08 AM
Yes we are all immature, just remember that you are talking to people on here who have been supporting this club since they were immature . When a Johnny come lately starts stating the " our arrival into the EPl , were you supporting Fulham then? had you even heard of us? As Leon states try paying to watch this dross week in week out instead of stuck in front of a TV or a stream and then tell us we are immature,
I prefer the term spoilt to immature which we have become. Gone are the days of watching a sublime footballer like Dembele grace us with his presence week in week out. We are where we are but I won't stop believing and if we go down, we go down but we will have some lovely young talent coming through with the new investment in the youth set up. Even with a worse case scenario of relegation I'm a fulham fan and I'm excited for the future.
All I would add to this discussion (because I think it has all been done to death elsewhere) is that relegation may be just a small setback for some clubs who just bounce straight back...for others it has proved to be not much short of a death sentence.
Worthwhile, then, to be concerned in case relegation and the second scenario befalls us. We can only go on the evidence of latest form, and it is going in that direction........
Tactics can change, but what has been apparent for some time is a lack of team spirit and commitment by a lot of the players. I commented after the Everton game that my Wife had noticed the lack of players celebrating Sidwell's equaliser and and Hangeland just picking up the ball and loped back up the field, this was greeted with derision by some of the posters on here but it has gradually become more apparent, . Who is going to reinstate the team spirit of the Woy era ? Sorry but I cannot see Jol doing so. His past performances are against him, he will always want to be right and the players wrong, there lies the problem at the club
Oakeshott
Your quote of "who has dismantled the best Premiership squad we have ever had" beggars belief. Jol has not "dismantled" the team. Dempsey refused to play as he wanted CL football, Dembele went as he had a release clause, Murphy was past it as this season has shown & Etuhu was awful, Kelly was only a back up & deserved 1st team football with some other club. So who else did Jol dismantle?
Jol has been used to playing with top players for most of his career so it´s bound to be more of a challenge to work with what we´ve got.
Oh no-just wet myself
Quote from: leonffc on January 15, 2013, 06:06:53 AM
Try turning up paying £35-£60 every week to watch the pathetic dross being served up and see if your opinion changes.
Quote from: epsomraver on January 15, 2013, 10:02:08 AM
As Leon states try paying to watch this dross week in week out instead of stuck in front of a TV or a stream and then tell us we are immature,
You will kindly remember that the stream of television revenues Fulham receives which does benefit the local fans comes from the pockets of "paying fans" that turn up and pays to watch this dross week in week out on TV. The funds you are dropping at the gate are not the clubs lone source of revenue and others are entitled to an opinion or two.
Back on topic, I personally feel that Jol has lost the plot since the talent departure in the summer window and he has not figured out how to compensate in the middle of the pitch.
Quote from: epsomraver on January 15, 2013, 10:31:28 AM
Tactics can change, but what has been apparent for some time is a lack of team spirit and commitment by a lot of the players. I commented after the Everton game that my Wife had noticed the lack of players celebrating Sidwell's equaliser and and Hangeland just picking up the ball and loped back up the field, this was greeted with derision by some of the posters on here but it has gradually become more apparent, . Who is going to reinstate the team spirit of the Woy era ? Sorry but I cannot see Jol doing so. His past performances are against him, he will always want to be right and the players wrong, there lies the problem at the club
Even if this so called 'lack of team spirit' and Hodgson having an extremely happy camp, is true, we still lost more than we won and on occasion went 3 or 4 losses on the trot! so that doesn't prove much really?
Quote from: Oakeshott on January 15, 2013, 08:02:48 AM
Maoconnor
Absurd post.
"I will guarantee that we are around that position [10th] again by the end of the season".
Who do you think you are, God? You may hope we finish around 10th, you may forecast that we do, and you may of course turn out to be right. But "guarantee" - merely shows immaturity and ignorance.
There are clearly two basic schools of thought on this board. Some, like you, see Jol, as a manager with "experience and skill" taking us, albeit with glitches, to the promised land of fluid attacking football and a potential top six place. Others, like me, see him as a manager with no man management skill and little tactical understanding who has dismantled the best Premiership squad we have ever had and reduced us, all too often, to a shambles on the pitch and as a consequence likely to be in a relegation battle.
Time will tell, and if we are relegated (or come close to it), fear not, your post will come back to haunt you. Equally, if Jol manages to find a player or two who magically galvanise the squad into a team capable of winning matches, and we end up around the middle of the table or higher, he will have achieved more than we critics expect and be entitled to some respect as a result.
As to timing, what is needed now, in my view, is confidence rebuilding, something which I fear Jol simply hasn't the competence to achieve. A change now, to the right new manager, would do that by removing the baleful influence of an incompetent and substituting at the very least a manager who knows what he is trying to do and what needs to be done to win points in the Premiership. I can think of at least three appointments that would make me cheer - even without having to resort to trying to poach either Wigan's or WBA's current managers, who would also be excellent choices. (In order of loudness of cheer, first Danny Murphy, second Kevin Keegan resurrected and third Roberto Di Matteo.)
Please explain. How has Jol dismantled the best PL squad? Who have we lost that we should have or could have kept? Murphy, Etuhu, Gera? They had dropped away from being regular 90 minute players. Davies? Injured. Zamora, AJ? Reallly? Dempsey? Dumped us because he deserved CL football. Dembele? A real loss but we got a fair price from the release clause.
"A shambles on the pitch"? Yes, we have been flakey at the back with too many individual mistakes , not dominant enough in central midfield because of the loss of DEmbele and injuries and not clinical enough in front of goal recently but we have played some very good football but not consistently. Some people need to be realistic. Not even the top four teams have been 100% convincing this season.
oooh immature .....moi ?! I'm 64 and have been watching my beloved team for a long time. Jol is not right for Fulham football club..not rocket science....simply what I see before my very eyes week in and week out. The sooner he goes, the better.....and I'll still feel the same whatever the result is tonight. :016:
Quote from: nose on January 15, 2013, 10:11:11 AM
I don't think you'll make enemies, we are fulham supporters and entiteled to our own opinions.
Actually the Jol out brigade so called put forward reasoned, rational discussion as to why he is taking us in the wrong direction. It is not so much results, but performances, bizarre tactics, substitutions and a general impression that we are going backwards quickly that is at issue.
Those in favour of Jol not unreasonably point to the shambles at the start of last season and how we subsequently picked up, and then have blind faith it will be alright this time too.
I do actually think we would benefit from a change although i have not actually called for his head (well I might of in a fit of distress and just can't remember at the moment) but changing now is also a risk and we would need to have a top class man ready to take over.
This is like rolling a dice, because we have averaged 10th before doesn't mean we can't go down. forrest are two times european cup winners, leeds semi finalists etc etc and they are in the lower leagues, the next game is the mst important!
I don't support him out of blind faith. I say he or any other manager coming in needs to be able to bring in players. Central midfield is a mess. We lack the players to protect the defence or initiate attacks. Diarra would've been good for the former and Sidwell does a decent job as does Baird though inconsistently, but we don't have anyone for the latter. Karagounis offers some creativity but not enough really.
I agree about his substitutions being odd recently. I remember he used to make the stupid substitutions but then they got better, but lately they've got worse again. He seems very slow to react.
I would say though that our lack of leadership is also largely down to Hangeland. Many of us, myself included thought he'd be a perfect captain but it just hasn't worked out that way. He doesn't motivate the team.
Quote from: The Moose on January 15, 2013, 04:25:03 PM
Quote from: nose on January 15, 2013, 10:11:11 AM
I don't think you'll make enemies, we are fulham supporters and entiteled to our own opinions.
Actually the Jol out brigade so called put forward reasoned, rational discussion as to why he is taking us in the wrong direction. It is not so much results, but performances, bizarre tactics, substitutions and a general impression that we are going backwards quickly that is at issue.
Those in favour of Jol not unreasonably point to the shambles at the start of last season and how we subsequently picked up, and then have blind faith it will be alright this time too.
I do actually think we would benefit from a change although i have not actually called for his head (well I might of in a fit of distress and just can't remember at the moment) but changing now is also a risk and we would need to have a top class man ready to take over.
This is like rolling a dice, because we have averaged 10th before doesn't mean we can't go down. forrest are two times european cup winners, leeds semi finalists etc etc and they are in the lower leagues, the next game is the mst important!
I don't support him out of blind faith. I say he or any other manager coming in needs to be able to bring in players. Central midfield is a mess. We lack the players to protect the defence or initiate attacks. Diarra would've been good for the former and Sidwell does a decent job as does Baird though inconsistently, but we don't have anyone for the latter. Karagounis offers some creativity but not enough really.
I agree about his substitutions being odd recently. I remember he used to make the stupid substitutions but then they got better, but lately they've got worse again. He seems very slow to react.
I would say though that our lack of leadership is also largely down to Hangeland. Many of us, myself included thought he'd be a perfect captain but it just hasn't worked out that way. He doesn't motivate the team.
I think we are not a million miles apart. i too am disapointed with th
Quote from: The Moose on January 15, 2013, 04:25:03 PM
Quote from: nose on January 15, 2013, 10:11:11 AM
I don't think you'll make enemies, we are fulham supporters and entiteled to our own opinions.
Actually the Jol out brigade so called put forward reasoned, rational discussion as to why he is taking us in the wrong direction. It is not so much results, but performances, bizarre tactics, substitutions and a general impression that we are going backwards quickly that is at issue.
Those in favour of Jol not unreasonably point to the shambles at the start of last season and how we subsequently picked up, and then have blind faith it will be alright this time too.
I do actually think we would benefit from a change although i have not actually called for his head (well I might of in a fit of distress and just can't remember at the moment) but changing now is also a risk and we would need to have a top class man ready to take over.
This is like rolling a dice, because we have averaged 10th before doesn't mean we can't go down. forrest are two times european cup winners, leeds semi finalists etc etc and they are in the lower leagues, the next game is the mst important!
I don't support him out of blind faith. I say he or any other manager coming in needs to be able to bring in players. Central midfield is a mess. We lack the players to protect the defence or initiate attacks. Diarra would've been good for the former and Sidwell does a decent job as does Baird though inconsistently, but we don't have anyone for the latter. Karagounis offers some creativity but not enough really.
I agree about his substitutions being odd recently. I remember he used to make the stupid substitutions but then they got better, but lately they've got worse again. He seems very slow to react.
I would say though that our lack of leadership is also largely down to Hangeland. Many of us, myself included thought he'd be a perfect captain but it just hasn't worked out that way. He doesn't motivate the team.
We are not a million miles apart. Brede has been disapointing because I don't think he is up to it. But the manager has had 18 months and roy really showed what he could do in that time, and in truth it is more than long enough. This run of poor results and poor performances is very troubling and I don't think there is anyone more responsible than the manager. He started with a very good squad but he fell out with so many of them and that includes ray lewington which was a very poor.
Quote from: Oakeshott on January 15, 2013, 08:02:48 AM
Maoconnor
Absurd post.
"I will guarantee that we are around that position [10th] again by the end of the season".
Who do you think you are, God? You may hope we finish around 10th, you may forecast that we do, and you may of course turn out to be right. But "guarantee" - merely shows immaturity and ignorance.
There are clearly two basic schools of thought on this board. Some, like you, see Jol, as a manager with "experience and skill" taking us, albeit with glitches, to the promised land of fluid attacking football and a potential top six place. Others, like me, see him as a manager with no man management skill and little tactical understanding who has dismantled the best Premiership squad we have ever had and reduced us, all too often, to a shambles on the pitch and as a consequence likely to be in a relegation battle.
Time will tell, and if we are relegated (or come close to it), fear not, your post will come back to haunt you. Equally, if Jol manages to find a player or two who magically galvanise the squad into a team capable of winning matches, and we end up around the middle of the table or higher, he will have achieved more than we critics expect and be entitled to some respect as a result.
As to timing, what is needed now, in my view, is confidence rebuilding, something which I fear Jol simply hasn't the competence to achieve. A change now, to the right new manager, would do that by removing the baleful influence of an incompetent and substituting at the very least a manager who knows what he is trying to do and what needs to be done to win points in the Premiership. I can think of at least three appointments that would make me cheer - even without having to resort to trying to poach either Wigan's or WBA's current managers, who would also be excellent choices. (In order of loudness of cheer, first Danny Murphy, second Kevin Keegan resurrected and third Roberto Di Matteo.)
I appreciate your comments, and in reflection you make some very astute observations. I will say what I find "absurd", to use your wording, is that you think because you have years on me in age that you know more about Fulham, which you very well might. I have been a Fulham supporter since the moment I took my first breath, and that was 22 years ago. Sorry I did not have the honor to grow up with Johnny Haynes or George Best playing for the Whites, I can only judge based on documentaries, from hearsay, and from what I have seen. I followed Fulham before the EPL and I will no matter what happens, and whether or not it haunts me, I will stand by words and say we finish 11th-9th this year.
The problem, and Jol hit on it earlier, is that we are the only EPL team that has not found their solid starting players...we have all the skill to kick on. We just need, and in this you are correct, some confidence rebuilding. Kevin Keegan is not the man we need..I will agree that Clarke would be quality, but in my novice opinion- you will not find a better manager than Jol for us at the moment...he needs backing from the Board.
I'm locking this as tidying, please see 'Jol new in out shake it all about' thread for reason.