Surely he is worth a call up in the light of the weekend's events. Hughes had the sort of game that would have called for the above's head on a silver plate. We cannot do any worse than we are now and he will bring a needed determination to the side that we've been lacking recently.
If he is called up, I hope people get behind him and if not, then just remember the reason why he's in the side and give him some slack.
And what is the reason he is in the side then?
Quote from: epsomraver on January 27, 2013, 12:20:55 PM
And what is the reason he is in the side then?
Hughes will get ripped apart by Carroll, similar to the game at West Ham and similar to last night's game.
Even someone as blinkered as yourself would have to admit we need someone stronger at the back?
Carroll is injured and has not played for some time
Quote from: Rudolph on January 27, 2013, 12:40:04 PM
Quote from: epsomraver on January 27, 2013, 12:20:55 PM
And what is the reason he is in the side then?
Hughes will get ripped apart by Carroll, similar to the game at West Ham and similar to last night's game.
Even someone as blinkered as yourself would have to admit we need someone stronger at the back?
You have a point Rudolph but there is no need to call somebody blinkered if they have a different point of view
Bringing Senderos in and changing things yet again is the sort of thing Jol would do.
Quote from: epsomraver on January 27, 2013, 12:50:32 PM
Carroll is injured and has not played for some time
There was talk (yeah, I know) in the press that Carroll might be available for the match. Let's see.
Rudolph Reindeer, Why not Senderos ????
He will fit right in with the type football ( if you can call it a type ) we currently dish up ( except Blackpool away).
There was a time when I did not worry if we went behind, because they were always capable of fighting back.
These days they could not fight they way out of a paper bag, in fact they come out of the tunnel looking beaten
Quote from: Rudolph on January 27, 2013, 12:40:04 PM
Quote from: epsomraver on January 27, 2013, 12:20:55 PM
And what is the reason he is in the side then?
Hughes will get ripped apart by Carroll, similar to the game at West Ham and similar to last night's game.
Even someone as blinkered as yourself would have to admit we need someone stronger at the back?
Hughes tends to do a decent job against big guys.
I do not agree EJL. I would bring Senderos back in on Wednesday for Hughes as I think Hughes is targeted by the Fellani's. Carrolls/Coles, Crouch etc types and, in my view, Hughes has not done a decent job against the "big" boys this season.
Now that's funny! Senderos replacing Hughes would be absolute suicide. Yes Hughes had a poor game yesterday (although he did score) but senderos is clueless. We have to beat W Ham so give senderos the day off
I think I would rather have jimmy nail with a blindfold on than senderos he is another on the list to go.
I'd prefer to see a new CB come in altogether, but on current form Hughes needs some dropping
:drums:i don't think hughes had a poor game, the defence was under seige for ages, defenders like goalkeepers are exposed when the pressure is on.
the penalty was a bit cruel, it was clattenburg as the ref, at the other end the same incident would have been more correctly awarded as a foul. in other words, smalling's hand pushing hughes was the first infringmenet and the reason hughes arm went up. should have been a foul to us.
oh and we should have had a pen just before half time, as clear as daylight but the media chose to ignore it.
sendeross is five steps backwards, he ball watches, he leaves his position, he is unstable in his actions, he can win headers he can win tackles but a defender has to reamin disciplined and poor old phillipe is not capable of that.
Quote from: EJL on January 27, 2013, 01:43:16 PM
Quote from: Rudolph on January 27, 2013, 12:40:04 PM
Quote from: epsomraver on January 27, 2013, 12:20:55 PM
And what is the reason he is in the side then?
Hughes will get ripped apart by Carroll, similar to the game at West Ham and similar to last night's game.
Even someone as blinkered as yourself would have to admit we need someone stronger at the back?
Hughes tends to do a decent job against big guys.
I think you need to watch the goals Everton scored change that opinion.
Senderos is simply not a player as he does not understand that football is a team game nor the dynamics of defending. It is ludicrous he is our only reserve centre back, if you discount Baird.
Quote from: nose on January 27, 2013, 02:55:18 PM
:drums:i don't think hughes had a poor game, the defence was under seige for ages, defenders like goalkeepers are exposed when the pressure is on.
the penalty was a bit cruel, it was clattenburg as the ref, at the other end the same incident would have been more correctly awarded as a foul. in other words, smalling's hand pushing hughes was the first infringmenet and the reason hughes arm went up. should have been a foul to us.
oh and we should have had a pen just before half time, as clear as daylight but the media chose to ignore it.
sendeross is five steps backwards, he ball watches, he leaves his position, he is unstable in his actions, he can win headers he can win tackles but a defender has to reamin disciplined and poor old phillipe is not capable of that.
Unbelievable. A pen is a pen, but he got ripped to shreds by Rooney and didn't deal with Hernandez on either occasion. The lad is in dreadful form recently and as our only alternative, Senderos needs to be given a game and more importantly, given the support of the crowd. He, along with Hughes, managed to shut out Chelsea away, so there is a good player there.
(http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/dariusl/dariusl1209/dariusl120900051/15274658-two-rudolph-reindeer-red-nose-snow-falls.jpg)
(http://satelliteshow.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/hobby-horse1.jpg)
Quote from: A Humble Man on January 27, 2013, 07:47:08 PM
Senderos is simply not a player as he does not understand that football is a team game nor the dynamics of defending. It is ludicrous he is our only reserve centre back, if you discount Baird.
Yeah yeah yeah. He did pretty well against chelsea and would do a decent job for us if there wasn't all the negativity surrounding him
Quote from: LBNo11 on January 27, 2013, 07:54:47 PM
(http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/dariusl/dariusl1209/dariusl120900051/15274658-two-rudolph-reindeer-red-nose-snow-falls.jpg)
(http://satelliteshow.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/hobby-horse1.jpg)
Jol out!
(http://www.ukiphorsham.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Ukip.png)
I don't know what you see in Senderos. Obviously every player has their weakness but Senderos is slow. Slow to react and has no pace. The quicker we let him go the better. But we do need cover in that position.
I said after the Spurs game I didn't want to see him in a white shirt again, but crikey after that Utd performance, and yes Everton, hammers away, Hughes needs resting. God knows though, who could go there, try Baird maybe?
Senderos can never wear a Fulham shirt again.
Quote from: St Eve on January 27, 2013, 11:47:32 PM
Senderos can never wear a Fulham shirt again.
Has he been transferred then?
Certainly nobody really thinks that the last three months have been Senderos's fault. Do they?
Unfortunately no he is still here. No the last 3 months has not been his fault but he is certainly not the solution
I thought we'd all moved past the point where people still believed Senderos was a viable option at centre back, it's even more astounding hearing people call for Senderos to come in instead of Hughes. Fair enough I can understand people questioning Hughes's performances this season as normally he's ever so good, and the fact that our squad is lacking in strength in depth in defence to bring in good alternatives, but Senderos really? it's like what do people see in the guy. I can understand people saying he's a stonger alternative to Hughes but personally i've never thought Hughes really lacked in that area to the extent that it affected his overall game. Fine lets say for the sake of the argument that Senderos does have one discernable trait in the form of his strength, he undermines that every single time with his lack of defensive awareness and concentration. I personally have never seen a worse centre back that you could possibly want to have in your team other than him(the exception being Titus bramble and maybe Ian Pearce). To conclude my rant I think we should stick with Hughes despite his drop in form as there's no quality alternative, if there was one fine then I'd agree with the people asking to switch it up, but for me Senderos is an accident waiting to happen and I personally would never agree that he's the right alternative.
:scarf:
Under Hodgson and Hughes we had two banks of four who defended when we did not have the ball, under Jol we have a back four and and an attacking six with some defensive support from the central midfielders. This put a terrible strain on the defence particularly against fast breaking team.
Jol has tried an experiment but without the four best defenders in the World it does not work. Please play a more defensive system and get the ball forward and into the box quicker, at least until we have enough points to be safe.
Quote from: A Humble Man on January 28, 2013, 07:29:47 AM
Under Hodgson and Hughes we had two banks of four who defended when we did not have the ball, under Jol we have a back four and and an attacking six with some defensive support from the central midfielders. This put a terrible strain on the defence particularly against fast breaking team.
Jol has tried an experiment but without the four best defenders in the World it does not work. Please play a more defensive system and get the ball forward and into the box quicker, at least until we have enough points to be safe.
So basically 8 defending outfield players hoofing it long into the box?
No, it is called passing forward as against the present Jol system of anywhere but
Just out of interest whenever this debate comes up it always seems to be Hughes Vs Senderos and the minute the one plays badly the Senderos support against hughes arises and vice versa. I don't recall many shouts for Senderos in when Brede was playing badly (to be fair hes hasn't really had a decent game). One thing I would highlight were the games Senderos played Stoke away, Chelsea clean sheet etc were with Hughes. Maybe controversial but maybe Brede isn't helping the situation with us conceding.
Before I get hammered, my opinion is Hughes and Brede are still our best centre backs and big phil is the back up.
Let me complicate the discussion more .
If Carrol plays on Wed do we
1) Play H+H ? Shredded by Carrol last time out and Fellaini
2) Play on of the Hs + Senderos
3) Play 3 CBs ?
4) Pray that Carrol does not play
Currently I am with Option 4
Quote from: FFC1987 on January 28, 2013, 11:39:02 AM
Just out of interest whenever this debate comes up it always seems to be Hughes Vs Senderos and the minute the one plays badly the Senderos support against hughes arises and vice versa. I don't recall many shouts for Senderos in when Brede was playing badly (to be fair hes hasn't really had a decent game). One thing I would highlight were the games Senderos played Stoke away, Chelsea clean sheet etc were with Hughes. Maybe controversial but maybe Brede isn't helping the situation with us conceding.
Before I get hammered, my opinion is Hughes and Brede are still our best centre backs and big phil is the back up.
I agree with FFC1987, yet would not be too averse to playing Senderos against West Ham
He is at least physical, will put his head in and has something to prove
Quote from: mangoputney on January 28, 2013, 01:06:45 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on January 28, 2013, 11:39:02 AM
Just out of interest whenever this debate comes up it always seems to be Hughes Vs Senderos and the minute the one plays badly the Senderos support against hughes arises and vice versa. I don't recall many shouts for Senderos in when Brede was playing badly (to be fair hes hasn't really had a decent game). One thing I would highlight were the games Senderos played Stoke away, Chelsea clean sheet etc were with Hughes. Maybe controversial but maybe Brede isn't helping the situation with us conceding.
Before I get hammered, my opinion is Hughes and Brede are still our best centre backs and big phil is the back up.
I agree with FFC1987, yet would not be too averse to playing Senderos against West Ham
He is at least physical, will put his head in and has something to prove
Can't argue with that.
Quote from: mangoputney on January 28, 2013, 01:06:45 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on January 28, 2013, 11:39:02 AM
Just out of interest whenever this debate comes up it always seems to be Hughes Vs Senderos and the minute the one plays badly the Senderos support against hughes arises and vice versa. I don't recall many shouts for Senderos in when Brede was playing badly (to be fair hes hasn't really had a decent game). One thing I would highlight were the games Senderos played Stoke away, Chelsea clean sheet etc were with Hughes. Maybe controversial but maybe Brede isn't helping the situation with us conceding.
Before I get hammered, my opinion is Hughes and Brede are still our best centre backs and big phil is the back up.
I agree with FFC1987, yet would not be too averse to playing Senderos against West Ham
He is at least physical, will put his head in and has something to prove
He couldn't put in a worse shift than what was put in on Saturday, but they'll be plenty on hand to say otherwise.
Also, it will be interesting to see what TG has to say about the FA Cup game.
Quote from: Rudolph on January 28, 2013, 11:26:20 AM
Quote from: A Humble Man on January 28, 2013, 07:29:47 AM
Under Hodgson and Hughes we had two banks of four who defended when we did not have the ball, under Jol we have a back four and and an attacking six with some defensive support from the central midfielders. This put a terrible strain on the defence particularly against fast breaking team.
Jol has tried an experiment but without the four best defenders in the World it does not work. Please play a more defensive system and get the ball forward and into the box quicker, at least until we have enough points to be safe.
So basically 8 defending outfield players hoofing it long into the box?
You guys need to get together and code these responses.
The one you just wrote would be "A1"
"If you want Jol out, who would repace him" would be "B2"
"I can't believe so many people are panicking after one or two losses against top teams" would be C3
"None of this is Jol's fault. It's the players/the board/MAF/the booing supporters" would be D4
Once you've established this list, your typing load would be much reduced. Hey, no reason to thank me. I'm just looking out for the "Jol In Brigade."
OOPS! "Jol Out Brigade" would be E5 :scarf:
Nooooooooooo. Atm I rate him less than brede and Hughes. We need to get someone else in.
B2.
I am sure there is room for an F6.
I think we should resign Senderos in a translator capacity. 5 Languages, amazing.
Quote from: HatterDon on January 28, 2013, 04:26:52 PM
Quote from: Rudolph on January 28, 2013, 11:26:20 AM
Quote from: A Humble Man on January 28, 2013, 07:29:47 AM
Under Hodgson and Hughes we had two banks of four who defended when we did not have the ball, under Jol we have a back four and and an attacking six with some defensive support from the central midfielders. This put a terrible strain on the defence particularly against fast breaking team.
Jol has tried an experiment but without the four best defenders in the World it does not work. Please play a more defensive system and get the ball forward and into the box quicker, at least until we have enough points to be safe.
So basically 8 defending outfield players hoofing it long into the box?
You guys need to get together and code these responses.
The one you just wrote would be "A1"
"If you want Jol out, who would repace him" would be "B2"
"I can't believe so many people are panicking after one or two losses against top teams" would be C3
"None of this is Jol's fault. It's the players/the board/MAF/the booing supporters" would be D4
Once you've established this list, your typing load would be much reduced. Hey, no reason to thank me. I'm just looking out for the "Jol In Brigade."
OOPS! "Jol Out Brigade" would be E5 :scarf:
Man United do not hoof the ball up the pitch but the pass and move and get the ball into the opposition penalty area as soon as possible. We just pass and pass and rarely get the box that rarely has any of our players are in.
Quote from: A Humble Man on January 28, 2013, 08:41:39 PM
Quote from: HatterDon on January 28, 2013, 04:26:52 PM
Quote from: Rudolph on January 28, 2013, 11:26:20 AM
Quote from: A Humble Man on January 28, 2013, 07:29:47 AM
Under Hodgson and Hughes we had two banks of four who defended when we did not have the ball, under Jol we have a back four and and an attacking six with some defensive support from the central midfielders. This put a terrible strain on the defence particularly against fast breaking team.
Jol has tried an experiment but without the four best defenders in the World it does not work. Please play a more defensive system and get the ball forward and into the box quicker, at least until we have enough points to be safe.
So basically 8 defending outfield players hoofing it long into the box?
You guys need to get together and code these responses.
The one you just wrote would be "A1"
"If you want Jol out, who would repace him" would be "B2"
"I can't believe so many people are panicking after one or two losses against top teams" would be C3
"None of this is Jol's fault. It's the players/the board/MAF/the booing supporters" would be D4
Once you've established this list, your typing load would be much reduced. Hey, no reason to thank me. I'm just looking out for the "Jol In Brigade."
OOPS! "Jol Out Brigade" would be E5 :scarf:
Man United do not hoof the ball up the pitch but the pass and move and get the ball into the opposition penalty area as soon as possible. We just pass and pass and rarely get the box that rarely has any of our players are in.
So the answer has been with us all along. We must play like man utd and then we'll win games. Tremendous insight squire.
Quote from: Rudolph on January 28, 2013, 09:09:34 PM
Quote from: A Humble Man on January 28, 2013, 08:41:39 PM
Quote from: HatterDon on January 28, 2013, 04:26:52 PM
Quote from: Rudolph on January 28, 2013, 11:26:20 AM
Quote from: A Humble Man on January 28, 2013, 07:29:47 AM
Under Hodgson and Hughes we had two banks of four who defended when we did not have the ball, under Jol we have a back four and and an attacking six with some defensive support from the central midfielders. This put a terrible strain on the defence particularly against fast breaking team.
Jol has tried an experiment but without the four best defenders in the World it does not work. Please play a more defensive system and get the ball forward and into the box quicker, at least until we have enough points to be safe.
So basically 8 defending outfield players hoofing it long into the box?
You guys need to get together and code these responses.
The one you just wrote would be "A1"
"If you want Jol out, who would repace him" would be "B2"
"I can't believe so many people are panicking after one or two losses against top teams" would be C3
"None of this is Jol's fault. It's the players/the board/MAF/the booing supporters" would be D4
Once you've established this list, your typing load would be much reduced. Hey, no reason to thank me. I'm just looking out for the "Jol In Brigade."
OOPS! "Jol Out Brigade" would be E5 :scarf:
Man United do not hoof the ball up the pitch but the pass and move and get the ball into the opposition penalty area as soon as possible. We just pass and pass and rarely get the box that rarely has any of our players are in.
So the answer has been with us all along. We must play like man utd and then we'll win games. Tremendous insight squire.
We could at least try and not keep wimping the ball backwards and sideways and forgetting the forward option through fear of failure.
Quote from: HatterDon on January 28, 2013, 04:26:52 PM
Quote from: Rudolph on January 28, 2013, 11:26:20 AM
Quote from: A Humble Man on January 28, 2013, 07:29:47 AM
Under Hodgson and Hughes we had two banks of four who defended when we did not have the ball, under Jol we have a back four and and an attacking six with some defensive support from the central midfielders. This put a terrible strain on the defence particularly against fast breaking team.
Jol has tried an experiment but without the four best defenders in the World it does not work. Please play a more defensive system and get the ball forward and into the box quicker, at least until we have enough points to be safe.
So basically 8 defending outfield players hoofing it long into the box?
You guys need to get together and code these responses.
The one you just wrote would be "A1"
"If you want Jol out, who would repace him" would be "B2"
"I can't believe so many people are panicking after one or two losses against top teams" would be C3
"None of this is Jol's fault. It's the players/the board/MAF/the booing supporters" would be D4
Once you've established this list, your typing load would be much reduced. Hey, no reason to thank me. I'm just looking out for the "Jol In Brigade."
OOPS! "Jol Out Brigade" would be E5 :scarf:
"O.K., A1 doesn't work, but I think E5 would be unfair because D4. C3, and anyway B2".
I've got the gist of it, but will decoding lists be provided before we all 090.gif?
Quote from: A Humble Man on January 28, 2013, 09:13:16 PM
Quote from: Rudolph on January 28, 2013, 09:09:34 PM
Quote from: A Humble Man on January 28, 2013, 08:41:39 PM
Quote from: HatterDon on January 28, 2013, 04:26:52 PM
Quote from: Rudolph on January 28, 2013, 11:26:20 AM
Quote from: A Humble Man on January 28, 2013, 07:29:47 AM
Under Hodgson and Hughes we had two banks of four who defended when we did not have the ball, under Jol we have a back four and and an attacking six with some defensive support from the central midfielders. This put a terrible strain on the defence particularly against fast breaking team.
Jol has tried an experiment but without the four best defenders in the World it does not work. Please play a more defensive system and get the ball forward and into the box quicker, at least until we have enough points to be safe.
So basically 8 defending outfield players hoofing it long into the box?
You guys need to get together and code these responses.
The one you just wrote would be "A1"
"If you want Jol out, who would repace him" would be "B2"
"I can't believe so many people are panicking after one or two losses against top teams" would be C3
"None of this is Jol's fault. It's the players/the board/MAF/the booing supporters" would be D4
Once you've established this list, your typing load would be much reduced. Hey, no reason to thank me. I'm just looking out for the "Jol In Brigade."
OOPS! "Jol Out Brigade" would be E5 :scarf:
Man United do not hoof the ball up the pitch but the pass and move and get the ball into the opposition penalty area as soon as possible. We just pass and pass and rarely get the box that rarely has any of our players are in.
So the answer has been with us all along. We must play like man utd and then we'll win games. Tremendous insight squire.
We could at least try and not keep wimping the ball backwards and sideways and forgetting the forward option through fear of failure.
Now that I agree totally with you, Tigana said that he wanted players to out on the pitch and express themselves, try things without fear of reproach , that seems so long ago now.
Z 26 WUMS, get lost
Well played sir
Senderos was fine. I think he did much better against Carroll and Cole that Aaron would have done. Tony Gale can shut the f**k up - he's like a broken record.
Quote from: Snibbo on January 31, 2013, 12:02:56 AM
Senderos was fine. I think he did much better against Carroll and Cole that Aaron would have done. Tony Gale can shut the f**k up - he's like a broken record.
I agree, he is trying to influence opinion on a perfectly good player due to his own agenda. The other part of Senderos' game that's superior to Hughes is his distribution. That ball he played to Berbatov which he eventually pulled up from was superb. I hope he gets a good run in the team as he deserves a chance.
Hughes struggles against big attackers. I have no problem with bringing Senderos in when the other side has the likes of Carrol or Rooney. I love Aaron but he is on the downside of a good career.
Well for me this just confirms that A) he isn't as terrible as some make out and B) Maybe with Brede, Hughes and Big Phil we are currently OK for squad depth in the CB role...well maybe one more for competition couldn't help :)
Ps. Looking forward to Rudolph making a comment!
Quote from: FFC1987 on January 31, 2013, 09:54:42 AM
Well for me this just confirms that A) he isn't as terrible as some make out and B) Maybe with Brede, Hughes and Big Phil we are currently OK for squad depth in the CB role...well maybe one more for competition couldn't help :)
Ps. Looking forward to Rudolph making a comment!
I still woudnt trust him on a regular basis. He does pass the ball at times to the opposition and gets caught out. However, when we play against teams who like to play over the top then he is the man for it, as he is rarely beaten in the air and very stong.
I only worry when we play teams who like to pass the ball and play through the ground...thats when senderos gets caught out.
He gave the ball away in dangerous positions the first two times he received it, while is still very prone to loosing the man he is marking at crucial moments.
Quote from: cottage cheese on January 31, 2013, 10:01:28 AM
Quote from: FFC1987 on January 31, 2013, 09:54:42 AM
Well for me this just confirms that A) he isn't as terrible as some make out and B) Maybe with Brede, Hughes and Big Phil we are currently OK for squad depth in the CB role...well maybe one more for competition couldn't help :)
Ps. Looking forward to Rudolph making a comment!
I still woudnt trust him on a regular basis. He does pass the ball at times to the opposition and gets caught out. However, when we play against teams who like to play over the top then he is the man for it, as he is rarely beaten in the air and very stong.
I only worry when we play teams who like to pass the ball and play through the ground...thats when senderos gets caught out.
Well his distribution also counters the big men as he doesnt just lump the ball forward and have it come back at us. Good for the team but yes, can't argue with the logic of using Hughes in different games for tactical reasons, just emphasises my point about squad depth in the CB role really. I'd like an addition though.
Quote from: Tonywa on January 31, 2013, 10:08:06 AM
He gave the ball away in dangerous positions the first two times he received it, while is still very prone to loosing the man he is marking at crucial moments.
So did Brede but he got raving reviews too.
Quote from: Tonywa on January 31, 2013, 10:08:06 AM
He gave the ball away in dangerous positions the first two times he received it, while is still very prone to loosing the man he is marking at crucial moments.
Non-world class defender in "Susceptible to mistakes" shocker.
He played well. No other player last night (except Ruiz) is getting stick and nor should Phil.
He compensates his lack of vision by a full commitment and he is rock solid. I don't think he would have been out-muscled twice like Brede was by Carlton Cole towards the end of the game. So I agree he is useful for games against teams like Stoke or West Ham, less for Swansea or ManU.
Quote from: FFC1987 on January 31, 2013, 10:10:43 AM
Quote from: Tonywa on January 31, 2013, 10:08:06 AM
He gave the ball away in dangerous positions the first two times he received it, while is still very prone to loosing the man he is marking at crucial moments.
So did Brede but he got raving reviews too.
Really, not in the match I watched, Senderos had a good game against average opposition but as already stated he gave the ball away in dangerous positions, is easily turned as he lunges in, If only he could read the game as Hughes does then we would have a great centre back
Quote from: Snibbo on January 31, 2013, 12:02:56 AM
Senderos was fine. I think he did much better against Carroll and Cole that Aaron would have done. Tony Gale can shut the f**k up - he's like a broken record.
How can you judge how Hughes would have performed?
Quote from: epsomraver on January 31, 2013, 10:16:56 AM
Quote from: Snibbo on January 31, 2013, 12:02:56 AM
Senderos was fine. I think he did much better against Carroll and Cole that Aaron would have done. Tony Gale can shut the f**k up - he's like a broken record.
How can you judge how Hughes would have performed?
Maybe the same way people are judging how senderos "might well have made costly errors"?
Last night Senderos nearly cost us in the first minute by just kicking the ball straight at a west Ham player. Later in the second half he lost the ball in a dangerous position and it was a whisker away again. I'm not Saying Hughes is any better now but he is getting on. We certainly need a new centre Half if not this window then the next one. Or just may be we have one in the youth team who is coming through
Quote from: epsomraver on January 31, 2013, 10:14:45 AM
Quote from: FFC1987 on January 31, 2013, 10:10:43 AM
Quote from: Tonywa on January 31, 2013, 10:08:06 AM
He gave the ball away in dangerous positions the first two times he received it, while is still very prone to loosing the man he is marking at crucial moments.
So did Brede but he got raving reviews too.
Really, not in the match I watched, Senderos had a good game against average opposition but as already stated he gave the ball away in dangerous positions, is easily turned as he lunges in, If only he could read the game as Hughes does then we would have a great centre back
His occasional giving the ball away and clumsiness are also why he plays for Fulham and not Barcelona.
Senderos's body language is an example to others and was important last night. He constantly encourages colleagues and really cares. I have always liked him.
In a nutshell I think we can all agree that the games against the long ball teams, Senderos must start over Hughes as he is good in the air and can battle well against the frontmen. He is strong at times and does make it hard for those to try and play over him. On the flip side when we play against the teams who play the ball and pass it around Hughes must start as he has a better positional ability and does not get caught at that often and does not switch off. They both have their strengths and yesterday was a game for Senderos and not Hughes.
Quote from: Andy S on January 31, 2013, 10:18:19 AM
Last night Senderos nearly cost us in the first minute by just kicking the ball straight at a west Ham player. Later in the second half he lost the ball in a dangerous position and it was a whisker away again. I'm not Saying Hughes is any better now but he is getting on. We certainly need a new centre Half if not this window then the next one. Or just may be we have one in the youth team who is coming through
Did you note down any other player's errors?
How about berbatov leaving Nolan for their goal (that WAS costly) or when sidders decided to leave the ball in his own box to the same player. Or ruiz mishitting to berbatov from his own box?
Quote from: cottage cheese on January 31, 2013, 10:20:35 AM
In a nutshell I think we can all agree that the games against the long ball teams, Senderos must start over Hughes as he is good in the air and can battle well against the frontmen. He is strong at times and does make it hard for those to try and play over him. On the flip side when we play against the teams who play the ball and pass it around Hughes must start as he has a better positional ability and does not get caught at that often and does not switch off. They both have their strengths and yesterday was a game for Senderos and not Hughes.
:plus one:
Epsom, I think you're being rather pedantic on this one. I'm not loved up by Big Phil but credit where credits due, the boy played well and for everytime Phil gave the ball away I'm sure Brede wasn't far away either. I'm not saying if Hughes played it would have been the same or we would have had a clean sheet either, the facts are Phil done well with his opportunity so good luck to the lad. I understand you are using previous games for your overall opinion of the player however.
Quote from: PokerMatt on January 31, 2013, 10:21:13 AM
Quote from: Andy S on January 31, 2013, 10:18:19 AM
Last night Senderos nearly cost us in the first minute by just kicking the ball straight at a west Ham player. Later in the second half he lost the ball in a dangerous position and it was a whisker away again. I'm not Saying Hughes is any better now but he is getting on. We certainly need a new centre Half if not this window then the next one. Or just may be we have one in the youth team who is coming through
Did you note down any other player's errors?
How about berbatov leaving Nolan for their goal (that WAS costly) or when sidders decided to leave the ball in his own box to the same player. Or ruiz mishitting to berbatov from his own box?
Berba also giving the ball to Nolan on the edge of the box for his shot that went just wide seems to have eluded the error sharks as well.
Apart form the two nearly disastrous mistakes I thought Senderos had a good game.
Shame we cannot find a player as good as Karagounis who is ten years younger.
It is unbelievable that we do not seem to be signing a central defender as if Hughes and Senderos are not good enough we need two defenders who are.
There is talk of the French 21 year old from Valenciennes.
I think all this "he's only good against the long ball merchants" is a bit patronising. He kept a clean sheet against Chelsea away and last season had two very good games against Arsenal and Liverpool last year. If it makes the pill easier to swallow, then go for it.
I've not been Senderos' biggest fan, I'll admit, however, apart from a few early nervous mistakes, giving the ball away to opposition players in dangerous positions, I thought he had a blinder of a performance last night. Given that he's never had a lengthy run in the starting line up I think that speaks volumes for his quality and a few 'rusty' moments shouldn't be used to slaughter him.
Oh, and his celebrations when we score are just fantastic. Big air punches and 'c'mon' shouts to the crowd. great passion
Quote from: Joe McDonald on January 31, 2013, 11:39:03 AM
I've not been Senderos' biggest fan, I'll admit, however, apart from a few early nervous mistakes, giving the ball away to opposition players in dangerous positions, I thought he had a blinder of a performance last night. Given that he's never had a lengthy run in the starting line up I think that speaks volumes for his quality and a few 'rusty' moments shouldn't be used to slaughter him.
Oh, and his celebrations when we score are just fantastic. Big air punches and 'c'mon' shouts to the crowd. great passion
I like it on the occasions when, after "giving the ball away" (translation, sometimes he is tackled by a skillful/well positioned/lucky opponent), Senderos does the very unFulhamish thing of going and tackling the opponent to get the ball back again. You can guarantee which seats will howl out "Typical Senderos" when the former happens, yet are strangely quiet when he wins it back.
I'm not blind to his poor points, nor to his good ones, and frankly he has been a lot less culpable than the Thames Barrier this season, yet he is still the target of choice for many on here.
Quote from: epsomraver on January 28, 2013, 09:49:57 PM
Now that I agree totally with you, Tigana said that he wanted players to out on the pitch and express
themselves, try things without fear of reproach , that seems so long ago now.
There was an excellent article in the Guardian the other day on THAT try by Gareth Edwards for the Barbarians against the All Blacks 40 years ago and that was exactly what Carwyn James said to Phil Bennett before the game. Presumably James spoke in Welsh and Tigana in French, which is why the idea has never really caught on.
I honestly think Senderos should be nowhere near our first team..... would rather we recalled the young lad on loan at Yeovil and played him.... Yesterday is just one of many examples of him nearly costing us, he is a liabillity in defense , and im afraid to say he always has been, you only need to speak to any Arsenal fan.
The fact he was positive and encouraging people yesterday is good for the team, but that is not enough reason to play him...
Agree with gist of post's. I have given Senderos stick, in particular the Spurs game, but I'm happy enough to say apart from those blind passes I thought he did ok for us last night so well done big man! You can wear the white shirt again. 065.gif
I don't understand why everyone thinks he had a good game, he almost gave west ham 3 goals????
Apart from Ruiz who did nothing, he was our worst player on the pitch yesterday. IMO of course
Quote from: Deanothefulhamfan on January 31, 2013, 12:50:30 PM
I don't understand why everyone thinks he had a good game, he almost gave west ham 3 goals????
Apart from Ruiz who did nothing, he was our worst player on the pitch yesterday. IMO of course
Maybe because so many people are sitting in anticipation of his next error is why you think he had a bad game? Almost gifted three goals now is it? Well Dimi DID gift one, Ruiz nearly gifted two, Sidders nearly gifted a couple. If we didn't give the ball away at all we'd be as successful as Barcelona. But we do, so we aren't.
Senderos did an awful lot right. Petric had three shots when he came in so there you go, by your logic he "almost" got a hat-trick.
The role of the central defender must be the toughest position in modern football. You have to be big and strong, yet fast in pace and mind. You have to be tactically aware and not allow a split second break in concentration. Any mistakes you make usually lead to a goal, it's the most unforgiving position on the park. Neither Brede, Hughes or big Phil have had a great season but as already pointed out we don't have the budget to land or keep the kind of quality some on here want. Do we miss Murhpy shouting out orders. There doesn't appear to be anyone on the field pulling the strings and reminding all what their jobs are. Is this the real reason things aren't as good as they could be
I think Senderous gets more stick than Hughes or Brede for the same errors. Saturdays another test, I'd stick with the team that started last night.
Quote from: Deanothefulhamfan on January 31, 2013, 12:43:02 PM
I honestly think Senderos should be nowhere near our first team..... would rather we recalled the young lad on loan at Yeovil and played him.... Yesterday is just one of many examples of him nearly costing us, he is a liabillity in defense , and im afraid to say he always has been, you only need to speak to any Arsenal fan.
The fact he was positive and encouraging people yesterday is good for the team, but that is not enough reason to play him...
Are those 'deficiencies' down to Senderos just being thrown in for one or two games and then being replaced by the 'first choice' player (at Arsenal and here)? Given an extended run, would his match sharpness and confidence not be enhanced and him being viewed as an asset rather than a risk? I think it's very fine margins
In all honesty Vic, I think they have all been poor this season.... The whole thing with Hangeland and his contract is reflecting in his performances, he just doesn't seem the same committed player we all know and love..... I have no Idea what has happened to Hughes but he has been woeful.
as for Matt, I understand your point but the fact is Senderos is that he makes too many mistake to regularly, his positional play is awful as his awareness... He doesn't learn from his lessons and never has. As I say he has always been a defender prone to mistakes, and unfortunately with Fulham you cant get away with that.... I honestly don't feel Senderos did a lot right at all yesterday, I will happily watch the game again and watch his performance carefully to see why everyone else felt he had a good game.
Joe - there is always a point I think with Professional footballers, and that is to take your chance with both hands when it becomes available. Carragher got dropped for a long period, but he played against Arsenal and put in a MOM performance, unfortunately Senderos never takes his chance to warrant a run in the first team.
The bottom line is we won and it was massive. Other results were good a swell. As for Senderos, he did not have a good game and was lucky on a few occasions. He is NOT the answer
Quote from: Deanothefulhamfan on January 31, 2013, 01:22:52 PM
Joe - there is always a point I think with Professional footballers, and that is to take your chance with both hands when it becomes available. Carragher got dropped for a long period, but he played against Arsenal and put in a MOM performance, unfortunately Senderos never takes his chance to warrant a run in the first team.
He did warrant a run in the team last season. His performances against Arsenal, Liverpool and chelsea away were outstanding. He then got injured and Hughes took his opportunity. His distribution is fantastic and he can really pick a pass and is comfortable on the ball, so it gives us another outlet from defence. The bolton game last year, both goals were started from the back, one by Phil and the other by Brede. How many times have we seen a midfielder coming back to get the ball off Hughes in order to start an attack?
I hope he gets a long run in the side, as we need some drive at the back and he gets a chance to win the likes of yourself over, similar to the way Richardson has done recently.
Quote from: Deanothefulhamfan on January 31, 2013, 12:43:02 PM
I honestly think Senderos should be nowhere near our first team..... would rather we recalled the young lad on loan at Yeovil and played him.... Yesterday is just one of many examples of him nearly costing us, he is a liabillity in defense , and im afraid to say he always has been, you only need to speak to any Arsenal fan.
The fact he was positive and encouraging people yesterday is good for the team, but that is not enough reason to play him...
Another costly mistake from Senderos.... Yes he played ok, but it is time and time again that this happens
Quote from: Deanothefulhamfan on February 02, 2013, 07:28:21 PM
Quote from: Deanothefulhamfan on January 31, 2013, 12:43:02 PM
I honestly think Senderos should be nowhere near our first team..... would rather we recalled the young lad on loan at Yeovil and played him.... Yesterday is just one of many examples of him nearly costing us, he is a liabillity in defense , and im afraid to say he always has been, you only need to speak to any Arsenal fan.
The fact he was positive and encouraging people yesterday is good for the team, but that is not enough reason to play him...
Another costly mistake from Senderos.... Yes he played ok, but it is time and time again that this happens
Finally somebody who speaks some sense, I gave him the benefit of the doubt last game because even I can admit when a player I dislike plays well but Jesus this happens time after time with him. He may have all the strength in the world but that's not what lets him down it's his concentration, he'll be fine for 75 minutes then boom he's fallen asleep at a vital counter attack. I know we hardly have strength in depth at the moment in defence to replace him but Jol was begging for this to happen just by starting him, he's a mistake waiting to happen. I know im going to get the talk of calm down before you post but he cost us a hard earned point against the top team in the league today, that point could be vital at the end of the season.
The only job senderos should be doing at our club is selling pies or maybe a steward, defenetly not be on the playing staff, rip up his contract now, money down the drain
Done a decent job today, but you can't play a cb who keeps making such costly individual errors.
I was saying to my mate gee Senderos has actually played a good game and then bang...one mistake and it costs us the points. Ive never seen a guy influence the result of so many games with just one mistake.
Overall he had a good game, against the best side in the league.
It would be churlish to make him a scapegoat for this result.
What about Zat Knight?
Let's be honest mistakes always stand ot when somebody scores a goal from that mistake. A guy at the back can always make a **** up
Yes he played well for eighty-nine minutes, but as so often, made a mistake in the other minute and cost us the game. It really is just not good enough and I wish we would get rid of him.
Quote from: Burt on February 02, 2013, 09:16:41 PM
Overall he had a good game, against the best side in the league.
It would be churlish to make him a scapegoat for this result.
Why? His mistake cost the goal. It's a simple fact, there's no excuse. He wasn't done by sublime skill or even poor luck. It was plain poor defending.
I've never been a fan of his throughout his career I admit it, and without trying to get on his back too much, he did play well but he was at fault for the goal. Simple!!
I can't wait to hear Rudolphs drivel on this one.
I made the mistake of saying the p-rick was probably having his best game for Fulham, a bit like when a cricket commentator says 'And Pietersons batting really well' and then gets out next ball.
I've never got it with that numpty.He's like a time-bomb with a dodgy fuse;You never know when it'll go off. Shame because we deserved something from the game.
Him and Reither looked like schoolboys for the goal today, but with Hangeland out injured we're going to need to get behind him in the coming weeks and not get on his back.
Just got back from the game....surprised to hear that it's open season on Senderos still. He played really well throughout, and even the goal couldn't be put down to him. He did what he had to, but we got stretched and Rooney did what he does best.
...I thought Senderos looked solid again today, we were split apart fro the goal, maybe if Hangeland had been on in the second half (why did he not come on in the second half?) he would have broken the attack up. Strikers make several mistakes a game, defenders only need to make one and they get the rough end of comments (can you tell I was a defender?). Well played Senderos...
Yes Senderos made a mistake & his defensive partner failed to close Rooney down backing off until the striker was allowed a free unchallenged shot on our goal
Can we for once enjoy the much improved performance?
We win & lose as a team not as individuals
A really good all round performance in a great game against the best team in the country playing well.
Senderos played a full part. No criticism from me.
Quote from: the nutflush on February 02, 2013, 09:03:24 PM
I was saying to my mate gee Senderos has actually played a good game and then bang...one mistake and it costs us the points. Ive never seen a guy influence the result of so many games with just one mistake.
+1
Yep for me Senderos had a decent game also......how anyone can say he was directly at fault for the Rooney game baffles me.......why not blame schwarzer for not standing in the right place..... :doh:
Quote from: Banstead White on February 02, 2013, 09:57:44 PM
Yep for me Senderos had a decent game also......how anyone can say he was directly at fault for the Rooney game baffles me.......why not blame schwarzer for not standing in the right place..... :doh:
Wow.........
The best defensive performance since Hodgson. Everyone played their part. Senderos was fantastic up until his error.
First half we were solid and weakened when Brede went off. Senderos made a mistake and Hughes allowed Rooney to get a shot off, similar to Rooney's goal last week.
So we got beat by the league leaders. We still played well and could see the strongest central pairing are H&S.
I agree senderos had one of his best games for us. However if he had did his job in attacking the ball and head it away Rooney doesn't get the chance to run at Hughes or shoot. Fact is Hernandez 5ft 7ish senderos 6ft 2ish, he doesn't have to worry aout Hernandez just jump and head it out. That's not being churlish at all just saying he has to do his job.
But was nice to se him ay better overall, and was nice to see to good back to back performances from the lads
It's amazing on this board Hangeland nearly scores 2 own goals one header that goes backwards onto the bar, i am not sure that Senderos could have done much, from what i could see from where i was sitting, but still lets do the usual and have a go with the blame game. The whole team today were brilliant, Manure were not ready for that play by us, i am not going to have a go or blame anyone, funny how we never have a go at the forwards when they miss chances to win a game.
Quote from: TonyGilroy on February 02, 2013, 09:52:56 PM
A really good all round performance in a great game against the best team in the country playing well.
Senderos played a full part. No criticism from me.
Agreed
No complaints from me, on balanced opinion he was decent.
Just watched it on MOTD. Both centre backs were blamed, initially Senderos for getting caught out by Hernandez, but Hughes could have closed Rooney down quicker. Also just before then, Hughes defended badly against Hernandez, who scuffed his shot and wasted the chance.
Thing is ALL central defenders make mistakes and good defences cover each other in these situations. The first half display was a joy to watch, with both centre backs having a solid game. We played with heart and belief, something we lacked last week at Old Trafford.
I can't get past page 6 of this disgusting thread. EVERY PLAYER on our team -- and everybody else's team in every league all over the world -- makes mistakes. We lost to the only goal in an excellent game, and the goal was largely down to the brilliant play of two world-class forwards.
Some times, this site gives me gas
All you Senderos haters need to take a long hard look at yourselves. The man would sweat blood for the Fulham cause, yet any mistakes he makes are highlighted tenfold,yet others who make mistakes are forgiven. Maybe, just maybe those who slate him week in week out should take a long hard look at the performances of Hangeland and Hughes and it may just hit home that Senderos isn't as bad as he's made out to be. So he misjudged a header that led to the Mancs winning the game. Give the man a break.Aaron Hughes has got no stick at all over this as his attempt at getting round on the cover and closing Rooney down was at best pathetic.Add to that two fantastic attempts by Hangeland to give United the lead and I think it's fair to say that Senderos is being very unfairly treated.
Senderos played well and then made 1 mistake, they scored and we lost. That I am afraid is the problem
It's worth pointing out that he made some good passes over the top today and against West Ham too.
Senderos had 2 good games in a roll. What I dont get is why blame only him for the goal. Where was riether, Hughes could have done better as well.
Look at the number of times Dejagah lost the ball or made bad passes during the game. You don't see an 8 page thread about that.
I'm proud of every single Fulham player last night. They gave their all and you can't ask any more than that.
Philippe senders is not breed hangeland.
He gives 100% every time. Prone to the odd lapse but come on guys cut the guy a bit of slack.
We kept man utd to one goal and could ave scored a few ourselves.....
On reflection & after seeing the goal several times I feel that most of the blame should go to Hughes. He should have stood his ground rather than back pedal. Rooney would have had to check his run. This would have given Reither time to get behind Hughes as 2nd cover.
Quote from: Max Headroom on February 03, 2013, 08:46:56 AM
Philippe senders is not breed hangeland.
He gives 100% every time. Prone to the odd lapse but come on guys cut the guy a bit of slack.
We kept man utd to one goal and could ave scored a few ourselves.....
Oh, I agree with this. Now if we could just breed Hangeland. Even a little Hangeland would be just over 6 foot.....
(Being facetious on a Sunday morning now, is it? Who do you think you are, Nogood Boyo? )
Senderos had a good game yesterday but his **** up resulted in the goal. That was a mistake near the end of the game when legs are tired etc. We have to live with the fact that these things happen in football. It is rarely one mistake that leads to a goal but I am proud of all 11 players on the park. Mistakes or not. They all battled for the cause. The fans were great as well constant cheering and singing. The only thing that went off at the wrong time was the floodlights. 85th minute would have done me. We could have come back free of charge and watched it all over again.
hang him
Arsenal after six seasons realised that he was a very good player but also a very unlucky players as when he makes a mistake he is almost always punished with a goal against.
All players make mistakes but frequently get away with them Senderos does not.
Quote from: A Humble Man on February 03, 2013, 12:30:08 PM
Arsenal after six seasons realised that he was a very good player but also a very unlucky players as when he makes a mistake he is almost always punished with a goal against.
All players make mistakes but frequently get away with them Senderos does not.
Spot on accurate... he played well 98% of the match yesterday but the other 2% cost us dearly... poor lad.
senderos had his best game yesterday, i have no complaints. the goal was a pity but rooney is a top class player that was able to exploit a situation.
I thought sendeross and hufhes were ok togetehr, if he (PS) keepes his concentration in gamers to come i am prepared to forgive and forget.
I think he'll get better the more he plays
Quote from: FC Silver Fox on February 03, 2013, 09:33:30 AM
Quote from: Max Headroom on February 03, 2013, 08:46:56 AM
Philippe senders is not breed hangeland.
He gives 100% every time. Prone to the odd lapse but come on guys cut the guy a bit of slack.
We kept man utd to one goal and could ave scored a few ourselves.....
Oh, I agree with this. Now if we could just breed Hangeland. Even a little Hangeland would be just over 6 foot.....
(Being facetious on a Sunday morning now, is it? Who do you think you are, Nogood Boyo? )
064.gif
Quote from: FC Silver Fox on February 03, 2013, 07:14:52 AM
Look at the number of times Dejagah lost the ball or made bad passes during the game. You don't see an 8 page thread about that.
I'm proud of every single Fulham player last night. They gave their all and you can't ask any more than that.
I'm happy to contribute to a threat about Dejagah. Poor first touch, looks really strong but seems to knock himself off the ball, terrible decision making. And similar looking to Bouazza.
Occasional good play but not good enough for Fulham or the premier league
I think Dejagah is starting to come good. He just might be a big player for us next season.
Quote from: TonyGilroy on February 03, 2013, 08:06:25 PM
I think Dejagah is starting to come good. He just might be a big player for us next season.
...I agree, some nice ball control, once he offloads the ball faster and stops making
too many twists and turns 'Mick' will come good...
Quote from: LBNo11 on February 03, 2013, 08:16:39 PM
Quote from: TonyGilroy on February 03, 2013, 08:06:25 PM
I think Dejagah is starting to come good. He just might be a big player for us next season.
...I agree, some nice ball control, once he offloads the ball faster and stops making too many twists and turns 'Mick' will come good...
Dejagah has NO touch how that agrees to nice ball control confuses me?
Staying on topic Senderos will never be a prem player i actually really wanted him to do well yesterday, and he did until he's costly error which inevitably left us coming away with 0 points. The premier league is a unforgiving place and you cant have a walking liability like that in your squad.
It all seems a bit harsh to me. When a striker makes a mistake the ball ends up in row Z. When a midfielder does some defender covers for him. Only when one of the back five blows it, he's "punished". I've been critical of Senderos but liked what he did during the scuffle with West Ham. He plays hard. In a way, he is a bit like Baird.
:Get Coat gif:
Quote from: grandad on February 03, 2013, 08:48:00 AM
On reflection & after seeing the goal several times I feel that most of the blame should go to Hughes. He should have stood his ground rather than back pedal. Rooney would have had to check his run. This would have given Reither time to get behind Hughes as 2nd cover.
:plus one:
Senderos was marking Hernandez--probably like he was told to do when the Mex. came in. I don't understand why people are trying to lay blame on him.
Quote from: theotherdembele on February 03, 2013, 08:25:01 PM
Quote from: LBNo11 on February 03, 2013, 08:16:39 PM
Quote from: TonyGilroy on February 03, 2013, 08:06:25 PM
I think Dejagah is starting to come good. He just might be a big player for us next season.
...I agree, some nice ball control, once he offloads the ball faster and stops making too many twists and turns 'Mick' will come good...
Dejagah has NO touch how that agrees to nice ball control confuses me?
Staying on topic Senderos will never be a prem player i actually really wanted him to do well yesterday, and he did until he's costly error which inevitably left us coming away with 0 points. The premier league is a unforgiving place and you cant have a walking liability like that in your squad.
I think he is entirely responsible for the fact that we have not won 21 of the 29 (cups & league) games we have played this season.
Woop - he only seems to have only started 7 of them and come an as a sub for 3 others.
Maybe their are others who have made a mistake?
So who didn't make a mistake - I think it must be only those who haven't played.
The way forward - all the players who haven't made a mistake - basically those who have not played so far this season - should start against Norwich.
Do you think Jol has though of this brilliant plan?
on senderos, he tried to pass the ball forward out of defense rather than back to mark which really helped us i felt.
When a forward or a midfielder loses the ball it is not usually a goal. If a deep lying centre back loses or misjudges a ball it usually is. Mistakes your keeper or you centre backs make are always the most costly. Senderos badly misjudged the flight of the ball but Hughes stood off Rooney when he should of tackled as well so it was shared culpability. You could also add that Riise had time to get on the post.
So let us lay off Senderos and give the chap a chance and hope his luck improves as a win at Norwich gets us much nearer safety.
the issue I have with Senderos is exactly what he did the other day. He is far too tight to players when marking them.
He either trys to get in front of them to win the ball and hence gets turned quite often or he is all over the player and that does not give him the room to jump and make a header. That's what happened on Saturday and for him ruined a good performance.
He could back off of course.
Would we blame him for doing that if it resulted in a goal against us?
As I said earlier he did well Saturday and Wednesday for that matter. Issue on Saturday was he was neither tight nor standing off. When the ball was in flight he went to the player rather than attacking the ball, if he had done that he would have headed it clear. However he had to stoop in the end and missed it and collided with Hernandez as a result.
He is liable to one of these mistakes a game, this time it cost a goal and the match, however as I say a far better performance over the 2 games than we have seen in the past. He was trying to move the ball forward and his passing wasn't to bad.
Quote from: Roberty on February 04, 2013, 04:05:58 PM
He could back off of course.
Would we blame him for doing that if it resulted in a goal against us?
its about decision making, something at his age he should be better at. Of course if he backed off we would want him to be tighter. But there is being tight to a player and being so close that you can't move, he tends to go for the latter.
Im not being critical of him for the sake of it. Im not anti Senderos at all. But there are aspects of his (just like any player) game that I don't like and I don't think at his age he's going to improve that type of decision making.
He does bring a better passing aspect to the defence, I remember one particular ball in the first half he played into space after spotting Dave's run.
Quote from: MJG on February 04, 2013, 05:09:35 PM
Quote from: Roberty on February 04, 2013, 04:05:58 PM
He could back off of course.
Would we blame him for doing that if it resulted in a goal against us?
its about decision making, something at his age he should be better at. Of course if he backed off we would want him to be tighter. But there is being tight to a player and being so close that you can't move, he tends to go for the latter.
Im not being critical of him for the sake of it. Im not anti Senderos at all. But there are aspects of his (just like any player) game that I don't like and I don't think at his age he's going to improve that type of decision making.
He does bring a better passing aspect to the defence, I remember one particular ball in the first half he played into space after spotting Dave's run.
So who would you have in the side at centre half for the next game up if there are no injuries to deal with?
Rudolph, for me if both fit and healthy it would be H & H, that's not because I dislike senderos, i think he is getting better, I just believe the two H's are a better partnership
Quote from: westcliff white on February 04, 2013, 05:31:45 PM
Rudolph, for me if both fit and healthy it would be H & H, that's not because I dislike senderos, i think he is getting better, I just believe the two H's are a better partnership
I agree with this.
Opinions are opinions, but I'd stick with H+S. Hangeland maybe understands Senderos' game more than Hughes and provides better cover for him. It's also interesting that the last couple of games have been played with heart and passion, something that was missing during the 4-1 united game and the draw against Wigan.
Again I agree we have shown more passion, not sure that's down to senderos, or maybe a kick up,the behind from MJ, or maybe players feeling threatened by prospective new signings and then the new signings. What ever reason it is it doesn't matter, as long as they show passion.
With the likely hood of hangers going maybe Hughes and senderos is the better pairing anyway, time will tell.
Well have our opinions but when a player wears the shirt I support them and the team, that's my role, this will continue till I die, I just hope the players do their roles
Quote from: westcliff white on February 04, 2013, 05:50:41 PM
Again I agree we have shown more passion, not sure that's down to senderos, or maybe a kick up,the behind from MJ, or maybe players feeling threatened by prospective new signings and then the new signings. What ever reason it is it doesn't matter, as long as they show passion.
With the likely hood of hangers going maybe Hughes and senderos is the better pairing anyway, time will tell.
Well have our opinions but when a player wears the shirt I support them and the team, that's my role, this will continue till I die, I just hope the players do their roles
And you put this down to Jol telling the players "I want you to go out and REALLY play this time" rather than having a driven player coming in for an out of form defender? I'd say it has been Senderos coming in and geeing the back line up. If you saw the way he and Duff celebrated the win against West Ham, you'd probably share the same opinion.
It is oh so easy in the stands or in front of the tv.
I saw how they celebrated Rudolph, but. Don't think it is down to just one player, and if u read what I said maybe a kick up the backside from jol I didn't say it was.
They all put in a good shift against WHU and Man U as they have in other games this year.
I dont think the performances in the last two games are down to just one ma, U seem to think I a beating on senderos which is not the case in any way at all.
I think Senderos is responsible for Herod's slaying of the first born too. It was that dodgy back pass that did it.
Who is Rudolph? I thought he was a reindeer.
Got to love Rudolph and his devotion to the dark arts that is big Phil!!!!
maybe he is big Phil
Wrong nationality
Eleven pages already on this thread! I congratulate you all. :dft009:
No idea why 11 pages is given to a player who is so awful and error prone.......hehe
Quote from: FFC1987 on February 05, 2013, 11:20:00 AM
No idea why 11 pages is given to a player who is so awful and error prone.......hehe
Keep it up, we need more pages than the transfer rumour thread! :005:
Cause he's 'Marmite'
berserker i mean maybe he is big phil senderos hehe.
he does certainly split opinion like marmite
Quote from: westcliff white on February 05, 2013, 12:23:15 PM
berserker i mean maybe he is big phil senderos hehe.
he does certainly split opinion like marmite
mmm Yes I have my suspicions about some players being on here. But doesn't Senderos come from Switzerland and Rudolph Reindeer from the North Pole along with Santa?
Sounds like Rudolph or Big Phil made a mistake, if I was a betting man I know which one I'd claimed had.....
Maybe it is so we don't think it is him
Quote from: Berserker on February 05, 2013, 12:38:30 PM
Quote from: westcliff white on February 05, 2013, 12:23:15 PM
berserker i mean maybe he is big phil senderos hehe.
he does certainly split opinion like marmite
mmm Yes I have my suspicions about some players being on here. But doesn't Senderos come from Switzerland and Rudolph Reindeer from the North Pole along with Santa?
I imagine if we had some players on here we'd soon know about it, from the number of Zamora-type goal celebrations we suddenly started seeing. Enough of those who have taken the opportunity (frequently) to express their open and forthright views have made their seating arrangements known in the past. Hey, we might even manage a Cantona-type karate attack or two after some particularly harsh criticism.
This thread begs the question, why does this board(s) have to have a whipping boy? We've had a number of major ones, Senderos, Dempsey and Baird come to mind, and at times others have gotten a bit of stick as well: Knight, EJ, Eddie Lewis, & the Canadian (can't remember his name), Davis and Pantsil.
Why? Is this a replacement for the mods preventing us having a go at each other?
Probably human nature, sad but true :-(
I just want the lad to be given a fair crack and I think a few are starting to do so now without issuing a stock answer.
Wish I had his money though!!
Quote from: YankeeJim on February 05, 2013, 05:36:54 PM
This thread begs the question, why does this board(s) have to have a whipping boy? We've had a number of major ones, Senderos, Dempsey and Baird come to mind, and at times others have gotten a bit of stick as well: Knight, EJ, Eddie Lewis, & the Canadian (can't remember his name), Davis and Pantsil.
Why? Is this a replacement for the mods preventing us having a go at each other?
Jim don't forget BZ got huge stick his first season here even though he seemed as though he assisted on nearly every goal but didn't score many. Ruiz still does. My favorite player Konchesky was also scorched. Zoltan Gera was as well.
Fickle and impatient lot we seem to be. Completely impatient with players return from injury or adaption to the team if they are new.
I like him.
I also think that he's our strongest centre back when it comes to getting forward. He can be wobbly in defence but he can also come out of defence beautifully and pass forward well. His physicality is suited to when we play sides with more physical forwards. Some of his passes late on against United were truly excellent.
He did well against United. Yes, he made an error. I can't excuse it but Senderos didn't make another error all match. He kept RvP out of the game brilliantly. Our defence was excellent against United and Senderos was a major part of that.
I really love Big Phil's spirit. When we score, it really seems to mean something to him. His reactions are fantastic. He also looks so much more upset than some of the others do when we lose (not that that's there fault, it's just that we've looked so spiritless as a whole lately.) He projects this onto other players in a very positive way - clapping his hands, talking to them. Senderos injects a lot more spirit and passion into our squad.
Real shame he made that error, not just because of what it cost us but because he was having an excellent game. Faultless. I do worry about our defence, Hughes, Hangeland and Senderos are all making too many errors as is Schwarzer. Having said that our defence was apart from that error very very good on Saturday.
You can call it an error if you like but you have to remember that it was against one of the world's best strikers and team. They don't normally allow much room for error.
Quote from: Oiseau on February 05, 2013, 09:35:51 PM
I like him.
I also think that he's our strongest centre back when it comes to getting forward. He can be wobbly in defence but he can also come out of defence beautifully and pass forward well. His physicality is suited to when we play sides with more physical forwards. Some of his passes late on against United were truly excellent.
He did well against United. Yes, he made an error. I can't excuse it but Senderos didn't make another error all match. He kept RvP out of the game brilliantly. Our defence was excellent against United and Senderos was a major part of that.
I really love Big Phil's spirit. When we score, it really seems to mean something to him. His reactions are fantastic. He also looks so much more upset than some of the others do when we lose (not that that's there fault, it's just that we've looked so spiritless as a whole lately.) He projects this onto other players in a very positive way - clapping his hands, talking to them. Senderos injects a lot more spirit and passion into our squad.
Couldn't agree more .............
As I have said earlier in this marathon thread, he is the unluckiest players I have ever seen. Other players mistakes, Hangeland miss-hit a lot of clearances in the match, but when Senderos makes a mistake in nearly always produces a goal. I do not believe in bad luck as a concept but some people do seem to get more than their fair share of it.
Quote from: A Humble Man on February 06, 2013, 10:59:02 AM
As I have said earlier in this marathon thread, he is the unluckiest players I have ever seen. Other players mistakes, Hangeland miss-hit a lot of clearances in the match, but when Senderos makes a mistake in nearly always produces a goal. I do not believe in bad luck as a concept but some people do seem to get more than their fair share of it.
We've been making defensive mistakes all season without Senderos playing. It has more to do with the fact no one dwells on them as much as when he plays. He was the footballing Anti-Christ after the Spurs game, but no one picked up on how badly Hughes played at Man U or other games this season.
Senderos is perceived to be a bad player by people who dislike his style. However this thread has at least given some on here to show their appreciation and others to admit he's not all bad.
I disagree I think people have said how off form Hughes has been, along with sidwell in some games, rodellega in others, berba in games, hangers this season too along with a whole host of other players. It's not personal it's fans being fans, we pay the money to watch them and we therefor criticise when things go wrong, as fans I think that's our right. If the players had the passion we had then we would never lose.
I am not a senderos fan but I was among the first to say how well he has played in the last two games, that doesn't excuse the error but it was no worse than anyone else's is season, unluckily for him it cost a goal. Hangers on Saturday made two glaring errors, but luckily foR him one hit the post and the other was cleared, that's just football.
I not having a go at him or anyone else, football is what it is, most close games are lost due to a error.
For me the most important thing was the performance Saturday, we go to or witch with a belief that we are now playing the way we can.
COYW
Quote from: Rudolph on February 06, 2013, 05:40:38 PM
Quote from: A Humble Man on February 06, 2013, 10:59:02 AM
As I have said earlier in this marathon thread, he is the unluckiest players I have ever seen. Other players mistakes, Hangeland miss-hit a lot of clearances in the match, but when Senderos makes a mistake in nearly always produces a goal. I do not believe in bad luck as a concept but some people do seem to get more than their fair share of it.
We've been making defensive mistakes all season without Senderos playing. It has more to do with the fact no one dwells on them as much as when he plays. He was the footballing Anti-Christ after the Spurs game, but no one picked up on how badly Hughes played at Man U or other games this season.
Senderos is perceived to be a bad player by people who dislike his style. However this thread has at least given some on here to show their appreciation and others to admit he's not all bad.
What? The majority of people on this message board knew Hughes had a bad game against United at OT, but so did everyone. No point in picking out one player in a terrible overall performance. The reasons why Senderos is getting so much stick here are:
1. The quality of our defensive play last Saturday was so fantastic that it meant any error would stand out
2. His error was the MOST noticeable. Missing a header stands out more than not tracking back or not pressing (just my view on it).
3. He's the residential scapegoat.
Most Fulham fans are beyond turning a blind eye to the poor performances of our other defenders so the Hughes argument doesn't really work any more.
Quote from: A Humble Man on February 06, 2013, 10:59:02 AM
As I have said earlier in this marathon thread, he is the unluckiest players I have ever seen. Other players mistakes, Hangeland miss-hit a lot of clearances in the match, but when Senderos makes a mistake in nearly always produces a goal. I do not believe in bad luck as a concept but some people do seem to get more than their fair share of it.
Nogood "if it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, isit" Boyo
Johnny Pantsil used to make errors virtually every match, some of which cost goals, including own goals, but he never got half the grief that Senderos has.
Quote from: Burt on February 06, 2013, 08:06:08 PM
Johnny Pantsil used to make errors virtually every match, some of which cost goals, including own goals, but he never got half the grief that Senderos has.
He was pretty solid under Hodgson, wasn't he? Only really started making mistakes when Hughes took over. I guess he was just a player who suited the system perfectly; Hodgson made sure his weaknesses were never exploited.
Quote from: EJL on February 06, 2013, 08:20:48 PM
Quote from: Burt on February 06, 2013, 08:06:08 PM
Johnny Pantsil used to make errors virtually every match, some of which cost goals, including own goals, but he never got half the grief that Senderos has.
He was pretty solid under Hodgson, wasn't he? Only really started making mistakes when Hughes took over. I guess he was just a player who suited the system perfectly; Hodgson made sure his weaknesses were never exploited.
JP made plenty of mistakes under Hodgson - but his fan club refused to see them!
Quote from: Burt on February 06, 2013, 08:06:08 PM
Johnny Pantsil used to make errors virtually every match, some of which cost goals, including own goals, but he never got half the grief that Senderos has.
I always tried to point out his frailties but because he ran around the pitch afterwards it seemed to paper over the cracks and everyone shouted me down :033: :031:.
Perhaps Senderos should try it?
Any chance of turning this into a Riisa Thread ????
Quote from: leonffc on February 06, 2013, 08:51:22 PM
Quote from: Burt on February 06, 2013, 08:06:08 PM
Johnny Pantsil used to make errors virtually every match, some of which cost goals, including own goals, but he never got half the grief that Senderos has.
I always tried to point out his frailties but because he ran around the pitch afterwards it seemed to paper over the cracks and everyone shouted me down :033: :031:.
That's probably it; I'm not even joking. I always used to look forward to his laps around the pitch.
Quote from: KCat on February 06, 2013, 10:34:36 PM
Any chance of turning this into a Riisa Thread ????
Riise's has been great in the last two games.
Quote from: EJL on February 06, 2013, 10:41:12 PM
Quote from: leonffc on February 06, 2013, 08:51:22 PM
Quote from: Burt on February 06, 2013, 08:06:08 PM
Johnny Pantsil used to make errors virtually every match, some of which cost goals, including own goals, but he never got half the grief that Senderos has.
I always tried to point out his frailties but because he ran around the pitch afterwards it seemed to paper over the cracks and everyone shouted me down :033: :031:.
That's probably it; I'm not even joking. I always used to look forward to his laps around the pitch.
My favourite Pants moment was when again playing Man U and he kept kicking Renaldo up in the air and the linesman and the ref kept ignoring it and Renaldo got angrier and angrier.
I have never laughed at a match so much before or after.
Quote from: EJL on February 06, 2013, 10:42:03 PM
Quote from: KCat on February 06, 2013, 10:34:36 PM
Any chance of turning this into a Riisa Thread ????
Riise's has been great in the last two games.
Never mind, we could always take the micky out of his nude picture on the internet instead ;-)
Quote from: EJL on February 06, 2013, 10:42:03 PM
Quote from: KCat on February 06, 2013, 10:34:36 PM
Any chance of turning this into a Riisa Thread ????
Riise's has been great in the last two games.
He's been decent apart from the ludicrous handball, but it does annoy me that he so often needlessly surrenders possession by just booting it wildly up the pitch without bothering to look for a pass.
If a striker scores every other game its a success, if a defender makes an error that costs a goal every other game its not a success, at the risk of sounding like a yank the truth will be found in the stats.
Quote from: The Moose on February 07, 2013, 01:35:04 AM
Quote from: EJL on February 06, 2013, 10:42:03 PM
Quote from: KCat on February 06, 2013, 10:34:36 PM
Any chance of turning this into a Riisa Thread ????
Riise's has been great in the last two games.
He's been decent apart from the ludicrous handball, but it does annoy me that he so often needlessly surrenders possession by just booting it wildly up the pitch without bothering to look for a pass.
But that's his trademark :008:
Another magnificent performance from the club' s number 4
Quote from: premFlem on February 07, 2013, 03:36:37 AM
If a striker scores every other game its a success, if a defender makes an error that costs a goal every other game its not a success, at the risk of sounding like a yank the truth will be found in the stats.
Nice picture of that half yank.
It's very worrying to me that Senderos is even in the team. It shows how age has crept up on our defense and we need massive rebuilding in the summer. It is very concerning that we will need to replace so many players at the same time. Take away the over age players, players on loan and players that are simply not good enough it is quite scary. Factor in the fact that we are not a big spending club the outlook is grim. Let's hope that there is a master plan
Never been a fan of Senderos but last 3 games I have to admit he has played well
Quote from: YankeeJim on February 10, 2013, 08:01:17 PM
Quote from: premFlem on February 07, 2013, 03:36:37 AM
If a striker scores every other game its a success, if a defender makes an error that costs a goal every other game its not a success, at the risk of sounding like a yank the truth will be found in the stats.
Nice picture of that half yank.
Touché YankeeJim
I was a carrow road Saturday and senderos had a decent game nothing more nothing less, but then I thought it was a very average game of football.
None of our players stood out as having a good game, in fact they were all like the game having an average day.
The last 3 games have been senderos's best for the club, but without being to hard on him, he didn't have a lot to beat. I hope he keeps the form up
Part of a defence that had a clean sheet away - he was solid, as he has been in the last few games - that error against Man U notwithstanding.
Well, everyone makes some errors, but previously he seemed unacceptably error prone - seming very nervous and lacking in confidence - but now, he seems to gave gained confidence, and is playing a goood role in our back four.
His error rate is grossly exaggerated IMHO. He can make one and the forums go berserk, yet Brede can almost score 2 own goals in one half of a game, and it barely rates a meention.
Decent player, good squad man, passionate, decent passer of the ball, and a lot younger than H&H.
It's a shame he was injured at the start of the season, we probably wouldn't be in the situation we are in now.
Quote from: Snibbo on February 11, 2013, 08:37:44 AM
His error rate is grossly exaggerated IMHO. He can make one and the forums go berserk, yet Brede can almost score 2 own goals in one half of a game, and it barely rates a meention.
Decent player, good squad man, passionate, decent passer of the ball, and a lot younger than H&H.
I agree with you snibbo to a degree, i think people did mention hangers near own goals, however i think people tend to think they didnt actually cost us in the end so the gloss over it. there are loads of mistakes in a game, most dont amount to anything, people just remember those mistakes that coast points, which is totally understanable.
that said and as i said earlier his performances have picked up and your spot on he is a good squad player when playing as he is and does have age on his side, hopefully he keeps the form going rather than slipping back to his old self.
He did well against Becchio imo. Never really gave him a chance to get into the game (which is what a defender should do).
Quote from: sipwell on February 11, 2013, 12:35:01 PM
He did well against Becchio imo. Never really gave him a chance to get into the game (which is what a defender should do).
I thought he was great against Norwich, I have my doubts as to whether Becchio will cut it in the Prem but credit where its due to Senderos.
Ok as you all know I am not one of his biggest fans, but his performance was one of the few postives we can take from Saturday. Well played Senderos
Just to be clear Rudolph, you are pinning our entire season which has been relatively poor on the fact Sendero's was injured? Or at least flirting with the idea things would be better if he wasn't injured at the start of the season? Just throwing a spanner in the works here but didn't we start this season really brightly?
Quote from: FFC1987 on February 12, 2013, 09:30:30 AM
Just to be clear Rudolph, you are pinning our entire season which has been relatively poor on the fact Sendero's was injured? Or at least flirting with the idea things would be better if he wasn't injured at the start of the season? Just throwing a spanner in the works here but didn't we start this season really brightly?
Jol started last season with Senderos and Hangeland at the back. This was his first choice pairing.
This season we did start brightly from an attacking point of view, but defensively not so good. We threw away leads at Southampton, Reading and Arsenal. Got obliterated at West Ham and got bullied at the back by Everton. All down to a weak defence.
For his faults, I could not see him being shrugged of the ball like Felliani did Hughes or beaten in the air in the way we conceded at Southampton, not to mention the horror show at West Ham. The early games showed one thing, Hughes was not comfortable on the ball and Hangeland was closed down at every occasion when he was playing out from the back. Our DCM had to come back to collect the ball and start a move. Senderos can spread the ball from the back with a great deal of accuracy.
So yes, I am saying that he would have made a difference, but that is irrelevant now, we just need to claim points and I am happy he is now fully involved and being appreciated by more people.
Quote from: Rudolph on February 12, 2013, 10:20:19 AM
Quote from: FFC1987 on February 12, 2013, 09:30:30 AM
Just to be clear Rudolph, you are pinning our entire season which has been relatively poor on the fact Sendero's was injured? Or at least flirting with the idea things would be better if he wasn't injured at the start of the season? Just throwing a spanner in the works here but didn't we start this season really brightly?
Jol started last season with Senderos and Hangeland at the back. This was his first choice pairing.
This season we did start brightly from an attacking point of view, but defensively not so good. We threw away leads at Southampton, Reading and Arsenal. Got obliterated at West Ham and got bullied at the back by Everton. All down to a weak defence.
For his faults, I could not see him being shrugged of the ball like Felliani did Hughes or beaten in the air in the way we conceded at Southampton, not to mention the horror show at West Ham. The early games showed one thing, Hughes was not comfortable on the ball and Hangeland was closed down at every occasion when he was playing out from the back. Our DCM had to come back to collect the ball and start a move. Senderos can spread the ball from the back with a great deal of accuracy.
So yes, I am saying that he would have made a difference, but that is irrelevant now, we just need to claim points and I am happy he is now fully involved and being appreciated by more people.
I'm extremely sceptical by this but you put forward a reasoned argument. (with plenty of flaws to it :) ) I will say don't just throw all praise on Big Phil for recent performances because he has still been exposed by some teams namely Spurs for two goals and United but hey I'm a neutral and love that we kept a few clean sheets and that he isn't the scape goat some wish he was!
Quote from: FFC1987 on February 12, 2013, 10:42:26 AM
Quote from: Rudolph on February 12, 2013, 10:20:19 AM
Quote from: FFC1987 on February 12, 2013, 09:30:30 AM
Just to be clear Rudolph, you are pinning our entire season which has been relatively poor on the fact Sendero's was injured? Or at least flirting with the idea things would be better if he wasn't injured at the start of the season? Just throwing a spanner in the works here but didn't we start this season really brightly?
Jol started last season with Senderos and Hangeland at the back. This was his first choice pairing.
This season we did start brightly from an attacking point of view, but defensively not so good. We threw away leads at Southampton, Reading and Arsenal. Got obliterated at West Ham and got bullied at the back by Everton. All down to a weak defence.
For his faults, I could not see him being shrugged of the ball like Felliani did Hughes or beaten in the air in the way we conceded at Southampton, not to mention the horror show at West Ham. The early games showed one thing, Hughes was not comfortable on the ball and Hangeland was closed down at every occasion when he was playing out from the back. Our DCM had to come back to collect the ball and start a move. Senderos can spread the ball from the back with a great deal of accuracy.
So yes, I am saying that he would have made a difference, but that is irrelevant now, we just need to claim points and I am happy he is now fully involved and being appreciated by more people.
I'm extremely sceptical by this but you put forward a reasoned argument. (with plenty of flaws to it :) ) I will say don't just throw all praise on Big Phil for recent performances because he has still been exposed by some teams namely Spurs for two goals and United but hey I'm a neutral and love that we kept a few clean sheets and that he isn't the scape goat some wish he was!
All I can see is a load of clean sheets. So he's been caught out against 2 top teams? Better this than being made a mug of at West Ham and Southampton.
Quote from: FFC1987 on February 12, 2013, 10:42:26 AM
Quote from: Rudolph on February 12, 2013, 10:20:19 AM
Quote from: FFC1987 on February 12, 2013, 09:30:30 AM
Just to be clear Rudolph, you are pinning our entire season which has been relatively poor on the fact Sendero's was injured? Or at least flirting with the idea things would be better if he wasn't injured at the start of the season? Just throwing a spanner in the works here but didn't we start this season really brightly?
Jol started last season with Senderos and Hangeland at the back. This was his first choice pairing.
This season we did start brightly from an attacking point of view, but defensively not so good. We threw away leads at Southampton, Reading and Arsenal. Got obliterated at West Ham and got bullied at the back by Everton. All down to a weak defence.
For his faults, I could not see him being shrugged of the ball like Felliani did Hughes or beaten in the air in the way we conceded at Southampton, not to mention the horror show at West Ham. The early games showed one thing, Hughes was not comfortable on the ball and Hangeland was closed down at every occasion when he was playing out from the back. Our DCM had to come back to collect the ball and start a move. Senderos can spread the ball from the back with a great deal of accuracy.
So yes, I am saying that he would have made a difference, but that is irrelevant now, we just need to claim points and I am happy he is now fully involved and being appreciated by more people.
I'm extremely sceptical by this but you put forward a reasoned argument. (with plenty of flaws to it :) ) I will say don't just throw all praise on Big Phil for recent performances because he has still been exposed by some teams namely Spurs for two goals and United but hey I'm a neutral and love that we kept a few clean sheets and that he isn't the scape goat some wish he was!
He was poor against Spurs granted but he made one error against Man Utd, the rest of his game was flawless. All of our back five make errors fairly regularly, well Riether is the exception. He made one error against West Ham and again got punished but again he was flawless apart from that error.
He's finally showing what Wenger saw in him.
Quote from: Rudolph on February 12, 2013, 02:18:41 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on February 12, 2013, 10:42:26 AM
Quote from: Rudolph on February 12, 2013, 10:20:19 AM
Quote from: FFC1987 on February 12, 2013, 09:30:30 AM
Just to be clear Rudolph, you are pinning our entire season which has been relatively poor on the fact Sendero's was injured? Or at least flirting with the idea things would be better if he wasn't injured at the start of the season? Just throwing a spanner in the works here but didn't we start this season really brightly?
Jol started last season with Senderos and Hangeland at the back. This was his first choice pairing.
This season we did start brightly from an attacking point of view, but defensively not so good. We threw away leads at Southampton, Reading and Arsenal. Got obliterated at West Ham and got bullied at the back by Everton. All down to a weak defence.
For his faults, I could not see him being shrugged of the ball like Felliani did Hughes or beaten in the air in the way we conceded at Southampton, not to mention the horror show at West Ham. The early games showed one thing, Hughes was not comfortable on the ball and Hangeland was closed down at every occasion when he was playing out from the back. Our DCM had to come back to collect the ball and start a move. Senderos can spread the ball from the back with a great deal of accuracy.
So yes, I am saying that he would have made a difference, but that is irrelevant now, we just need to claim points and I am happy he is now fully involved and being appreciated by more people.
I'm extremely sceptical by this but you put forward a reasoned argument. (with plenty of flaws to it :) ) I will say don't just throw all praise on Big Phil for recent performances because he has still been exposed by some teams namely Spurs for two goals and United but hey I'm a neutral and love that we kept a few clean sheets and that he isn't the scape goat some wish he was!
All I can see is a load of clean sheets. So he's been caught out against 2 top teams? Better this than being made a mug of at West Ham and Southampton.
Of course all you are seeing is clean sheets, you have man love for Sendero's and openly admit it :) You're also being very selective as you can count many performances where Hughes has been solid and Brede has struggled. As stated though, I like Big Phil and am very happy he's coming good but I'm not going as far as to call him the messiah, I mean come on.....
Quote from: FFC1987 on February 12, 2013, 03:00:15 PM
Quote from: Rudolph on February 12, 2013, 02:18:41 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on February 12, 2013, 10:42:26 AM
Quote from: Rudolph on February 12, 2013, 10:20:19 AM
Quote from: FFC1987 on February 12, 2013, 09:30:30 AM
Just to be clear Rudolph, you are pinning our entire season which has been relatively poor on the fact Sendero's was injured? Or at least flirting with the idea things would be better if he wasn't injured at the start of the season? Just throwing a spanner in the works here but didn't we start this season really brightly?
Jol started last season with Senderos and Hangeland at the back. This was his first choice pairing.
This season we did start brightly from an attacking point of view, but defensively not so good. We threw away leads at Southampton, Reading and Arsenal. Got obliterated at West Ham and got bullied at the back by Everton. All down to a weak defence.
For his faults, I could not see him being shrugged of the ball like Felliani did Hughes or beaten in the air in the way we conceded at Southampton, not to mention the horror show at West Ham. The early games showed one thing, Hughes was not comfortable on the ball and Hangeland was closed down at every occasion when he was playing out from the back. Our DCM had to come back to collect the ball and start a move. Senderos can spread the ball from the back with a great deal of accuracy.
So yes, I am saying that he would have made a difference, but that is irrelevant now, we just need to claim points and I am happy he is now fully involved and being appreciated by more people.
I'm extremely sceptical by this but you put forward a reasoned argument. (with plenty of flaws to it :) ) I will say don't just throw all praise on Big Phil for recent performances because he has still been exposed by some teams namely Spurs for two goals and United but hey I'm a neutral and love that we kept a few clean sheets and that he isn't the scape goat some wish he was!
All I can see is a load of clean sheets. So he's been caught out against 2 top teams? Better this than being made a mug of at West Ham and Southampton.
Of course all you are seeing is clean sheets, you have man love for Sendero's and openly admit it :) You're also being very selective as you can count many performances where Hughes has been solid and Brede has struggled. As stated though, I like Big Phil and am very happy he's coming good but I'm not going as far as to call him the messiah, I mean come on.....
I've manlove for all 11 of our lads on matchday. I've always maintained that Big Phil is unfairly targeted. Ooooohh who am I kidding! I love the man!!!
He always brings out my mothering instincts, strange really
Still don't rate him. H&H first choice for me.
But hey we all have our own views on players.
Quote from: MJG on February 12, 2013, 09:10:13 PM
Still don't rate him. H&H first choice for me.
But hey we all have our own views on players.
Hangers and Senderos all day long for me these days but as you say we all have our views.....wouldn't mind a repeat of that 1978 result Saturday week MJG.
coyw
Quote from: Travers Barney on February 12, 2013, 09:30:21 PM
Quote from: MJG on February 12, 2013, 09:10:13 PM
Still don't rate him. H&H first choice for me.
But hey we all have our own views on players.
Hangers and Senderos all day long for me these days but as you say we all have our views.....wouldn't mind a repeat of that 1978 result Saturday week MJG.
coyw
I would be very happy with a 2-0 that's for sure.
H&H for me every time.
Right now, I'd have to say Sendero's infront of Hughes but I like the healthy competition...and love Rudolph's comments regarding Big Phil, its brilliant!
Quote from: FFC1987 on February 13, 2013, 09:59:11 AM
Right now, I'd have to say Sendero's infront of Hughes but I like the healthy competition...and love Rudolph's comments regarding Big Phil, its brilliant!
:021:
that sun dissapears when big Phil pulls his shorts up for reindeer though
Quote from: epsomraver on February 13, 2013, 04:22:12 PM
that sun dissapears when big Phil pulls his shorts up for reindeer though
HA!
Senderos has been good recently. Formed a good CB partnership with Hangeland. Hughes has well past it. And, he makes me smile. Don't know what it is, but his face just makes me laugh. Very passionate player as well.
I don't think we should write Hughes off yet though. He had a few poor games but otherwise he has put in some MoM performances. I wouldn't be surprised if him and Phil battle it out all season for that starting place. As mentioned, more competition the better!
My view on Senderos
Always in danger of making a mistake . So wish we had someone more reliable
But I have never seen him give less than 100% . Therefore I value him.
You may have picked up my general thread . If everyone gives 100% we would never be discussing relegation and would be comfortably in the Top 10.
Quote from: Riverside on February 14, 2013, 10:50:58 AM
My view on Senderos
Always in danger of making a mistake . So wish we had someone more reliable
But I have never seen him give less than 100% . Therefore I value him.
You may have picked up my general thread . If everyone gives 100% we would never be discussing relegation and would be comfortably in the Top 10.
the trouble is that during the Manure game Hughes made just as big a mistake as Senderos, when Hernandes went round him a bit earllier, the difference is that Hernandes fluffed his shot and Rooney did'nt.
I am a mole and I live in a hole sort of attitude on this mb now. Sad degradation in quality.
Still think in summr we should get another defender as senderos can make game changing mistakes
Does anyone think that we've chewed the fat enough over Senderos now, and can get on with the rest of our lives - or at least reading this board - without the dreaded name coming up in the "Show new replies " column?
Quote from: ron on February 14, 2013, 05:15:36 PM
Does anyone think that we've chewed the fat enough over Senderos now, and can get on with the rest of our lives - or at least reading this board - without the dreaded name coming up in the "Show new replies " column?
At least there is only one thread about Senderos rather than 4 or 5 about Dempsey. Careful what you wish for.
Quote from: ron on February 14, 2013, 05:15:36 PM
Does anyone think that we've chewed the fat enough over Senderos now, and can get on with the rest of our lives - or at least reading this board - without the dreaded name coming up in the "Show new replies " column?
I must say I've been surprised at the longevity of this one.
The answer is that people show their continued interest in the subject by posting on it. That's the nature of the forum.
I suppose it's an issue that divides people and therefore provokes a more lengthly discussion than something upon which all are agreed.
For my part I was somewhat taken by this comment:
Quote from: fulhaman on February 14, 2013, 05:00:06 PM
Still think in summr we should get another defender as senderos can make game changing mistakes
I think you could write the names of all the centre-backs that have ever kicked a ball (or an opponent) who have never made a 'game changing mistake' on the back of a postage stamp and still have room to list all QPR's signings this season.
Quote from: ron on February 14, 2013, 05:15:36 PM
Does anyone think that we've chewed the fat enough over Senderos now, and can get on with the rest of our lives - or at least reading this board - without the dreaded name coming up in the "Show new replies " column?
I don't know I'm quite enjoying the debate. He is hard to work out, he's very inconsistent but of late he's been consistently good. Just as well really because Hughes's form has really dropped off.
Quote from: fulhaman on February 14, 2013, 05:00:06 PM
Still think in summr we should get another defender as senderos can make game changing mistakes
I think the same could be said for all three of our regular centre backs. Hangeland has actually been the most error prone.
Quote from: The Moose on February 14, 2013, 06:08:22 PM
Quote from: fulhaman on February 14, 2013, 05:00:06 PM
Still think in summr we should get another defender as senderos can make game changing mistakes
I think the same could be said for all three of our regular centre backs. Hangeland has actually been the most error prone.
Not in 2013 Moose...Hangers been good of late but prior to that agree all three error strewn.
coyw
Quote from: Travers Barney on February 14, 2013, 07:51:47 PM
Quote from: The Moose on February 14, 2013, 06:08:22 PM
Quote from: fulhaman on February 14, 2013, 05:00:06 PM
Still think in summr we should get another defender as senderos can make game changing mistakes
I think the same could be said for all three of our regular centre backs. Hangeland has actually been the most error prone.
Not in 2013 Moose...Hangers been good of late but prior to that agree all three error strewn.
coyw
Over the course of the season. Point is there's not an awful lot to choose between the three. They've all been inconsistent. At the moment Hangeland and Senderos are looking good. Could be that one of them has a howler or two and Hughes gets another look in. Hopefully they'll keep their places by keeping their form, and we can start to worry about scoring goals rather than conceding them.
Jezz ! this is a cross between, A Lost and Found and the old Confessional Box
It is a strange thread to be sure
It's his birthday today, so all the best Phil, in case you're reading.
"Hmmm" thinks Phil (in five languages).
"What could make me even happier on my birthday? I know - I'll see what the fans think of me on the message boards."