Marcello Trotta came off the bench to score the sixth goal of his successful loan spell at Brentford tonight as the Bees saw off Stevenage Borough at Griffin Park.
Fulham's Italian striker, on loan at Brentford since November, replaced Paul Hayes just after the hour mark with the home side already leading through a Tom Adeyemi strike just before the interval. The 20 year-old sealed the win with a superb curler from distance four minutes from time, which helped cement Brentford's place in the League One play-off picture.
Trotta will be hoping that his sublime finish will have done enough to secure a place in the Brentford starting line-up for Sunday's FA Cup fourth replay at Chelsea. He has already made his mark in this season's competition – scoring the opening goal in the original 2-2 draw at Griffin Park.
Hope he gets a start and bags a goal or two v. The Undead.
True, but he has played 15 games. If he's only getting 6 in 15 in League 1, he still needs to improve for the PL.
Quote from: M i c K Y x FFC on February 13, 2013, 08:48:49 AM
True, but he has played 15 games. If he's only getting 6 in 15 in League 1, he still needs to improve for the PL.
bloody hell what more can the boy do except score goals. that still makes him possibly an 18 goals a season player in lge 1 for Brentford.
When, last season, certain eminant sages on this board suggested we get hold of Jordan Rhodes, I, somewhat sniffily, compared his then scoring record at Div 1 level with that of Trotta.
I have seen a little bit of Trotta and have not been totally impressed by him, but one thing is for sure, he scores goals. And that is a pretty useful skill to have in this game. Nobody was criticising Gerd Muller's lack of creativity or praising Alan Shearer's aesthetic beauty.
I was wrong to be sniffy about Rhodes and now, I hope, I might be proved wrong to be sniffy about Trotta. We could certainly do with someone whose only contribution is to stick the ball in the net.
'We could certainly do with someone whose only contribution is to stick the ball in the net.'
Particularly when that's been something we haven't done nearly enough of of late. I'm wondering whether we've asked for him back and Brentford have asked whether he can stay for the scum game then come back?
Rhodes is an excellent finisher and next season will be a premiership player ( possibly at Fulham) as for Trotta I have always liked him but I just dont know if he will ever make it in the prem...
We have a few good prospects coming through along with trotta, Woodrow, Gameiro, Altman and dalle valle, there are so many things that influence whether they will make it, all score goals on a regular basis, all have been drilled in the Fulham style of play, who knows. It was only a few years ago Freddy Sears at West ham as a teenager was knocking them in in the premiership( inc against us)looked a good striker in the Premiership but was quickly sent to the bench before being discarded by them and now plays for Colchester.
Judging whether a teenage forward is ready to be tried in the 1st team is very difficult,a lot easier picking fullbacks and midfielders and giving them a run as they have other players around them to cover .
He is not good enough to start a 3rd level league game. QED
To be honest I dont understand the negativity against Trotta. Hugo is seen as a prem player and has only scored 3 goals all season. I dont see how Trotta could be any worse? He is young, hungry and wanting to play. We need some depth and desire up front as Berbatov is determined to play outside the box leaving us with nothing upfront
Trotta scored again last night for he bees and It got me thinking why is he still on loan. A fantastic young prospect and we are left we the laziest person to walk the earth up front, undoubtedly berbatov has bagful of talents but he is too lazy, I say we give Trotta a run out
Quote from: samv10 on February 13, 2013, 12:08:26 PM
Trotta scored again last night for he bees and It got me thinking why is he still on loan. A fantastic young prospect and we are left we the laziest person to walk the earth up front, undoubtedly berbatov has bagful of talents but he is too lazy, I say we give Trotta a run out
Comparing Trotta to Berbatov must be a joke or wicked pathos.
I wouldn't recommend rising to this wind up merchant. However, I'm glad Trotta is doing well.
Brentford playing Chelsea in the cup replay at the Bridge on Saturday I believe. A Trotta hat trick in that game may make Jol sit up and take notice.
Quote from: A Humble Man on February 13, 2013, 11:58:56 AM
He is not good enough to start a 3rd level league game. QED
So every player has to start every game.
Glad to hear Trotta. is doing well, playing regularly and not wasting away on the bench. Hoorah for Trotta.
Problem is can he make the step up to the prem? from what I have seen of him I doubt it.
Quote from: cottage cheese on February 13, 2013, 12:01:14 PM
To be honest I dont understand the negativity against Trotta. Hugo is seen as a prem player and has only scored 3 goals all season. I dont see how Trotta could be any worse? He is young, hungry and wanting to play. We need some depth and desire up front as Berbatov is determined to play outside the box leaving us with nothing upfront
I think it's more natural caution than negativity.
The wastage rate from youth to Prem level is frightening. We had one of the best youth outfits around recently and yet we see how the likes of Kacaniclic, Frei, Briggs etc. have (so far) struggled to become established. I think it is one of the most interesting things in football to watch the young players develop and yet one must be prepared for much more disappointment than satisfaction. Consider the likes of Simon Davies (no, not our one, although this one did get a Welsh cap) who ended up playing for Airbus UK, Kevin Pilkington (Notts Co), John O'Kane (Hyde Utd), George Switzer (Hyde Utd), Chris Casper (Reading), Colin McKee (Fauldhouse Utd) and Ben Thornley (Witton Alb). Who the hell are they? They are the majority of the famous 1992 Manchester United youth squad (Beckham, Giggs, Butt, Neville and Robbie Savage) easily the most productive of recent years, the ones who didn't make it.
Hopefully Trotta will break through, but the odds are against it. Being young, hungry and wanting to play is not, in isolation, sufficient.
The 'couldn't be any worse' argument, that we have seen in several areas recently just doesn't work without some evidence. Even scoring 'only' 3 goals so far, especially for someone who has had limited playing time and has not solely been used as a striker, in the Premier League is not to be dismissed lightly. And certainly bears favourable comparison with 6 in Div 1.
We have some impressive young talents on our books, we hope they succeed. But we should be realistic.
Quote from: samv10 on February 13, 2013, 12:08:26 PM
Trotta scored again last night for he bees and It got me thinking why is he still on loan. A fantastic young prospect and we are left we the laziest person to walk the earth up front, undoubtedly berbatov has bagful of talents but he is too lazy, I say we give Trotta a run out
The bit in bold is exactly why he isn't at the club currently. He'd never get a look in; we don't have the freedom to experiment. We need to pick up points first.
Berbatov isn't lazy. The Opta stats from Saturday support that.
Quote from: EJL on February 13, 2013, 01:32:35 PM
Quote from: samv10 on February 13, 2013, 12:08:26 PM
Trotta scored again last night for he bees and It got me thinking why is he still on loan. A fantastic young prospect and we are left we the laziest person to walk the earth up front, undoubtedly berbatov has bagful of talents but he is too lazy, I say we give Trotta a run out
The bit in bold is exactly why he isn't at the club currently. He'd never get a look in; we don't have the freedom to experiment. We need to pick up points first.
Berbatov isn't lazy. The Opta stats from Saturday support that.
And that's the problem.
You have Trotta & Donegan for example, both 21 this year and neither has had any kind of run in the team or even made enough sub appearances. At 20/21 you should be on the verge of the first team squad at least. (well at least having a trip on the coach to away games)
Quote from: MJG on February 13, 2013, 01:45:05 PM
Quote from: EJL on February 13, 2013, 01:32:35 PM
Quote from: samv10 on February 13, 2013, 12:08:26 PM
Trotta scored again last night for he bees and It got me thinking why is he still on loan. A fantastic young prospect and we are left we the laziest person to walk the earth up front, undoubtedly berbatov has bagful of talents but he is too lazy, I say we give Trotta a run out
The bit in bold is exactly why he isn't at the club currently. He'd never get a look in; we don't have the freedom to experiment. We need to pick up points first.
Berbatov isn't lazy. The Opta stats from Saturday support that.
And that's the problem.
You have Trotta & Donegan for example, both 21 this year and neither has had any kind of run in the team or even made enough sub appearances. At 20/21 you should be on the verge of the first team squad at least. (well at least having a trip on the coach to away games)
Do you think there may be a reason for that?
Quote from: FFC1987 on February 13, 2013, 01:57:01 PM
Quote from: MJG on February 13, 2013, 01:45:05 PM
Quote from: EJL on February 13, 2013, 01:32:35 PM
Quote from: samv10 on February 13, 2013, 12:08:26 PM
Trotta scored again last night for he bees and It got me thinking why is he still on loan. A fantastic young prospect and we are left we the laziest person to walk the earth up front, undoubtedly berbatov has bagful of talents but he is too lazy, I say we give Trotta a run out
The bit in bold is exactly why he isn't at the club currently. He'd never get a look in; we don't have the freedom to experiment. We need to pick up points first.
Berbatov isn't lazy. The Opta stats from Saturday support that.
And that's the problem.
You have Trotta & Donegan for example, both 21 this year and neither has had any kind of run in the team or even made enough sub appearances. At 20/21 you should be on the verge of the first team squad at least. (well at least having a trip on the coach to away games)
Do you think there may be a reason for that?
They may not be deemed good enough by Jol which what your hinting at.
But look at the expenditure on the youth and then the players he has brought in on loan. I would have preferred to have seen any of the young CM's given a chance before Frimpong. At least it would give them experience.
I'm a strong believer in giving players a chance. The odd appearance here and there as a sub does no harm.
But apart from Smith no one else has pushed on to make more than 2 appearances.
Donegan falls into the makeup of pretty much all the young players I have seen at Fulham in the last year. Nice and tidy but a little lightweight. They could all do with a bit more time in the gym.
He scores in League 1 and you think we should be starting him in the Premier League, are you mad?
Quite a substantial difference in quality.
Quote from: MJG on February 13, 2013, 02:23:35 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on February 13, 2013, 01:57:01 PM
Quote from: MJG on February 13, 2013, 01:45:05 PM
Quote from: EJL on February 13, 2013, 01:32:35 PM
Quote from: samv10 on February 13, 2013, 12:08:26 PM
Trotta scored again last night for he bees and It got me thinking why is he still on loan. A fantastic young prospect and we are left we the laziest person to walk the earth up front, undoubtedly berbatov has bagful of talents but he is too lazy, I say we give Trotta a run out
The bit in bold is exactly why he isn't at the club currently. He'd never get a look in; we don't have the freedom to experiment. We need to pick up points first.
Berbatov isn't lazy. The Opta stats from Saturday support that.
And that's the problem.
You have Trotta & Donegan for example, both 21 this year and neither has had any kind of run in the team or even made enough sub appearances. At 20/21 you should be on the verge of the first team squad at least. (well at least having a trip on the coach to away games)
Do you think there may be a reason for that?
They may not be deemed good enough by Jol which what your hinting at.
But look at the expenditure on the youth and then the players he has brought in on loan. I would have preferred to have seen any of the young CM's given a chance before Frimpong. At least it would give them experience.
I'm a strong believer in giving players a chance. The odd appearance here and there as a sub does no harm.
But apart from Smith no one else has pushed on to make more than 2 appearances.
Donegan falls into the makeup of pretty much all the young players I have seen at Fulham in the last year. Nice and tidy but a little lightweight. They could all do with a bit more time in the gym.
I see no evidence that Jol is unwilling to play youngsters, if he thinks they're up to it he will. What about Frei, Briggs and Kacaniklic? Frei was what 18 when he made his debut.
Quote from: MJG on February 13, 2013, 10:08:27 AM
Quote from: M i c K Y x FFC on February 13, 2013, 08:48:49 AM
True, but he has played 15 games. If he's only getting 6 in 15 in League 1, he still needs to improve for the PL.
bloody hell what more can the boy do except score goals. that still makes him possibly an 18 goals a season player in lge 1 for Brentford.
I don't want to put a damper on your enthusiasm, because I think Trotta has the potential to be a useful player for Fulham, but Bradley Wright-Phillips is good for 20 goals a season in League One and I don't see any Premier League clubs clamoring to sign him.
So, the consensus seems to be that the more Trotta scores for Brentford, the more it proves that he's not good enough for Fulham.
I'm going to sit over there in the corner and try to figure out that logic.
Quote from: jmh on February 13, 2013, 04:53:30 PM
Quote from: MJG on February 13, 2013, 10:08:27 AM
Quote from: M i c K Y x FFC on February 13, 2013, 08:48:49 AM
True, but he has played 15 games. If he's only getting 6 in 15 in League 1, he still needs to improve for the PL.
bloody hell what more can the boy do except score goals. that still makes him possibly an 18 goals a season player in lge 1 for Brentford.
I don't want to put a damper on your enthusiasm, because I think Trotta has the potential to be a useful player for Fulham, but Bradley Wright-Phillips is good for 20 goals a season in League One and I don't see any Premier League clubs clamoring to sign him.
Thing is BWP is 27 and been around long enough that we all know hes not Prem quality.
I have no idea if Trotta is going to make it at Prem level. What gets me is we have a goal machine in him who at every level (bar a misstep at Watford) has scored.
I have seen him play live maybe 7 or 8 times and ok, his passing and build up play lets him down, but in the box, whatever way he is facing, he knows where the goal is.
He's not ready to play up front for us yet starting wise, but he could be eased in with a few sub apperances. But anyway I suspect he's at Brentford for the duration and I hope he gets in the first team squad next season for a chance.
Quote from: HatterDon on February 13, 2013, 05:22:01 PM
So, the consensus seems to be that the more Trotta scores for Brentford, the more it proves that he's not good enough for Fulham.
I'm going to sit over there in the corner and try to figure out that logic.
I'll come and join you.
As I said 90 seconds ago on the other Trotta thread, the consensus seems to be that the more Trotta scores for Brentford the more it proves that he's not good enough for us.
I'll probably say the same thing in the other six Trotta threads when I get to them.
Anyone know?
No..
Quote from: MJG on February 13, 2013, 05:23:25 PM
Quote from: jmh on February 13, 2013, 04:53:30 PM
Quote from: MJG on February 13, 2013, 10:08:27 AM
Quote from: M i c K Y x FFC on February 13, 2013, 08:48:49 AM
True, but he has played 15 games. If he's only getting 6 in 15 in League 1, he still needs to improve for the PL.
bloody hell what more can the boy do except score goals. that still makes him possibly an 18 goals a season player in lge 1 for Brentford.
I don't want to put a damper on your enthusiasm, because I think Trotta has the potential to be a useful player for Fulham, but Bradley Wright-Phillips is good for 20 goals a season in League One and I don't see any Premier League clubs clamoring to sign him.
Thing is BWP is 27 and been around long enough that we all know hes not Prem quality.
I have no idea if Trotta is going to make it at Prem level. What gets me is we have a goal machine in him who at every level (bar a misstep at Watford) has scored.
I have seen him play live maybe 7 or 8 times and ok, his passing and build up play lets him down, but in the box, whatever way he is facing, he knows where the goal is.
He's not ready to play up front for us yet starting wise, but he could be eased in with a few sub apperances. But anyway I suspect he's at Brentford for the duration and I hope he gets in the first team squad next season for a chance.
Well sure, it's not exactly parallel. I'm just saying I wouldn't put TOO much stock in a decent goal tally in League One.
quick question how many of you have watched him play for Brentford this season? Got a couple of mates who are season ticket holders there who think he looks a decent league one striker but not much more.
Quote from: A Humble Man on February 13, 2013, 11:58:56 AM
He is not good enough to start a 3rd level league game. QED
+1
A Brentford fan I know really likes Trotta
interesting, btw on his goalscoring stats it's 3 in 11 in the league added to the goal against Chelsea and another couple against Bradford in the 2nd round of the FA cup.
Quote from: Terry Angus on February 13, 2013, 10:58:43 PM
Quote from: A Humble Man on February 13, 2013, 11:58:56 AM
He is not good enough to start a 3rd level league game. QED
+1
As I replied to the the post before. So players have to start everygame to be deemed good.
You dont know the reasons why he was sub. Might be tactical, Might be he has a slight knock,might be he needed the rest, might be he had a poor last game. It could be any number of reasons.
I surpose because Hughes was a sub last game he's not up to Prem level, or Emanulason either.
Quote from: MJG on February 14, 2013, 06:40:46 AM
Quote from: Terry Angus on February 13, 2013, 10:58:43 PM
Quote from: A Humble Man on February 13, 2013, 11:58:56 AM
He is not good enough to start a 3rd level league game. QED
+1
As I replied to the the post before. So players have to start everygame to be deemed good.
You dont know the reasons why he was sub. Might be tactical, Might be he has a slight knock,might be he needed the rest, might be he had a poor last game. It could be any number of reasons.
I surpose because Hughes was a sub last game he's not up to Prem level, or Emanulason either.
If Trotter was playing like a Premier League striker the manager of Brentford would make him the first name on his team sheet every game and would not worry about minor injuries. If Rodders or Petric went on loan to a 1st Division they would score hatfulls of goals.
Quote from: A Humble Man on February 14, 2013, 07:45:01 AM
Quote from: MJG on February 14, 2013, 06:40:46 AM
Quote from: Terry Angus on February 13, 2013, 10:58:43 PM
Quote from: A Humble Man on February 13, 2013, 11:58:56 AM
He is not good enough to start a 3rd level league game. QED
+1
As I replied to the the post before. So players have to start everygame to be deemed good.
You dont know the reasons why he was sub. Might be tactical, Might be he has a slight knock,might be he needed the rest, might be he had a poor last game. It could be any number of reasons.
I surpose because Hughes was a sub last game he's not up to Prem level, or Emanulason either.
If Trotter was playing like a Premier League striker the manager of Brentford would make him the first name on his team sheet every game and would not worry about minor injuries. If Rodders or Petric went on loan to a 1st Division they would score hatfulls of goals.
And I'm sure a premiership manager would be happy to know one of their players would be starting every game, even when they have minor injury's. Use a bit of common sense.
It might be worth considering that young Mr Trotta is, presumably, receiving Div 1 quality service (admittedly against Div 1 quality defending). Given that a striker, perhaps more than anybody, is reliant on the service he gets, perhaps he might do (even) better with Premier League quality service?
(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Football/Pix/pictures/2013/1/27/1359292122065/Brentfords-Marcello-Trott-010.jpg)
Nah, I think I'll pass...
My brentford mates rate him really highly and think he should be starting more regularly... But he is doing his job when called upon.... I am a massive fan of bringing through the youngsters at any club, but at Fulham we never seem to do that. Briggs is a squad player but thats it.... Frei another squad player when fit.... Would love to see Trotta make it but I think if he was that good we would have seen more from him by now
Scoring goals gets easier the lower down the leagues a player goes.
Stepping up means playing against better defenders, having less space and with coaches having worked out how the goals are scored and how to prevent them.
I'm assuming everyone recognises that as obvious.
Trotta is young and may well still improve but so far we know that he's reasonably good at League 1 level but failed to convince at Watford at Championship level.
We talk about players going out on loan as if we only have to send them somewhere. The truth is that they need a club to want them.
What Trotta needs next season is a loan spell at Championship level to see how he does but that means finding a Championship manager who sees him as being good enough.
To me it seems dumb to simply demand that Jol play him on the basis that he's young and might succeed. We wouldn't be understanding if Jol did that and Trotta turned out to be out of his depth.
Stating you're sitting in the corner working over the logic of an argument that never occurred is rather silly isn't it? No one (from my knowledge/glance) has said 'because he is scoring in league 1 that makes him not good enough for EPL'. If there is a quote saying such, we should all ridicule that person (calm down Mods i'm not talking literally) but I couldn't find one. The staff at FFC signed Trotta for the long run. If we brought him back now he wouldn't get in front of our current strikers so allowing him to play is great for the kid, and for the club. He would sit on the bench and rot if we didn't give him this opportunity. What I find amusing is the general consensus for Kasami and Stockdale is, if he's not playing, he needs games yet Trotta who is regulary allowed out on loan and playing, people think we need back. He's not ready and is finding his feet at first team level and looks to me as if he's progressing. Calling him back now will just do what happened to Stockdale.
I have seen trotter in a Fulham shirt a few times and really rate him. Think he could be a goal scoring machine in a few years.
Quote from: TonyGilroy on February 14, 2013, 11:54:40 AM
Scoring goals gets easier the lower down the leagues a player goes.
Stepping up means playing against better defenders, having less space and with coaches having worked out how the goals are scored and how to prevent them.
I'm assuming everyone recognises that as obvious.
Trotta is young and may well still improve but so far we know that he's reasonably good at League 1 level but failed to convince at Watford at Championship level.
We talk about players going out on loan as if we only have to send them somewhere. The truth is that they need a club to want them.
What Trotta needs next season is a loan spell at Championship level to see how he does but that means finding a Championship manager who sees him as being good enough.
To me it seems dumb to simply demand that Jol play him on the basis that he's young and might succeed. We wouldn't be understanding if Jol did that and Trotta turned out to be out of his depth.
A soon as he got to Watford, the manager made a decision to go with his own younger players regardless of result -- a laudable decision, but not one in Fulham's or Trotta's best interest. I think it's unfair to categorize his time at Watford as a failure.
Rightly or wrongly the Watford manager preferred to use his own players.
I didn't use the word "failure" but Trotta certainly failed to impress the Watford manager. He needs another chance at that level but that means finding a manager willing to use him.
Wanting our young players to succeed doesn't make it so.
Quote from: Matt on February 14, 2013, 10:06:27 AM
(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Football/Pix/pictures/2013/1/27/1359292122065/Brentfords-Marcello-Trott-010.jpg)
Nah, I think I'll pass...
Who kisses the badge of a team they're on loan at?