049:gif There is a lot of ill feeling on here at the moment. Come on guys, whether you love or hate JOL (or just put up with him), we are ALL Fulham fans. Can we calm down a bit on all this slagging each other off just because someone disagrees with another's opinions?
Come on chaps...... chins up!! 082.gif
COYW
I haven't seen much of that? Frustrations have been boiling over for months, it's becoming difficult to support ffc at times.
Oh, and as for Jacksonville, as far as I'm concerned this billionaire that associates the two clubs has been none existent.
Yes have to agree. It's been hard to watch the team this year. Still love them always will. But we are in trouble BIG TiME and only a fool could not see that!
Quote from: Fulham Tup North on September 02, 2013, 10:18:02 PM
049:gif There is a lot of ill feeling on here at the moment. Come on guys, whether you love or hate JOL (or just put up with him), we are ALL Fulham fans. Can we calm down a bit on all this slagging each other off just because someone disagrees with another's opinions?
Come on chaps...... chins up!! 082.gif
COYW
[/quote
I assume the Jacksonville fans no nothing about football or Fulham or transfer deadline day, just like their owner.
Why would the Jacksonville fans give a good crap about how we conduct ourselves on this site? And why should we give a crap what they think?
They probably felt exactly the same last season when they finished bottom....
I think there has been a lot of debating rather than slagging off, which in my opinion is what this forum is all about. Some people clash with opinions but thats all they are at the end of the day... If people are slagging others off then that is unaccecptable, but its probably just the kids that are on their school holidays ;)
just out of interest how do you feel about Jacksonville?
The are probably concerned with not being one of the worst teams in the NFL again.
(Though they have an advantage, being in a league that aggressively attempts to circulate team position, both through the draft and through schedule planning.)
Jacksonville? It's a big economically struggling city. The NFL franchise has a large number of loyal fans. They like the owner, our owner. Not sure what the question is. It's rather open ended. I don't see any natural synergies between Fulham and the Jaguars. American football and English football. Two different sports. Two different sets of fan expectations. And owner expectations too. No relegation in the U.S.--both a blessing and a curse, I suppose. A blessing in that you don't have to sweat watching your beloved team sinking into uglier lower league play (If such leagues were to exist). A curse in that the absence of relegation means there's less incentive for an NFL owner to spend the money to make the team more competitive. The owner gets its cut of the TV and radio rights money, and whatever other shared revenue monies there are out there, without winning season teams getting appreciably more (but for "playoffs"). As a former long suffering Detroit Lions fan, I know what I'm talking about. William Clay Ford just didn't spend the money. Less fans in the seats; he didn't care. Some fans coming to home games wearing paper bags over their heads to signify their shame and embarrassment supporting a team of such poor quality. And still he didn't spend the money. The years passed. And then it hit me. With no banishment from the league for poor play, the club hung on to its fans. They still bought their jerseys, their branded paraphernalia, their mugs, their door mats, bobble heads, pennants, car window decals. They still shelled out ga goo gobs of money to attend games, overspending at the concession counters, all the while anticipating their team would likely lose again. And again. And why? Because whether the team won or lost, the citizenry had made that associational leap, adopting the team as their own. It was city v. city. The Detroit Lions v. the Green Bay Packers, or the Chicago Bears, or the Dallas Cowboys. You're from Detroit; the team has "Detroit" in its name; what more is there to say? Simple as that: You support the Lions. That kind of identity politics in sports is simple when there's but one team in a given franchise in a city. Not so easy when there are more than one. Then it becomes an issue of playing style, management style, identifying with particular players, neighborhoods, and so on. There's so much money at stake in the NFL, so many people employed, satellite support businesses. It's an economic machine. The way it's set up, it wouldn't work for an NFL team to go down. The league manufactures a storied history for all of the club teams because they don't get relegated. They never drift into lower level obscurity. Relegation is a weird concept. Fairness in extremis. You weren't good enough. Down you go, replaced by an overachieving lower level team. But by God that's scary. Betting the entire house, all our savings, all our everything on getting enough points to stay up. Whew! I watched a Prem manager chew on a towel a few days ago. And the season's just started! Anyway, I believe Khan is watching, getting posts/updates, is a smart man. I believe he has spent a ton of money already on this club, retired debt, kept continuity, and is saying all of the right things. It would be foolish to assume he doesn't understand the game.
I don't believe Khan knows a thing about proper football and hasn't uttered a single phrase so far that suggests he knows anything about football. That won't make him a bad owner, but it does make me wonder what his interest is and I fear it is more about promoting the Jaguars than about Fulham FC. He has just signed the Jaguars to a 3 year deal to appear at Wembley and he wants to make sure Wembley is full of Jaguar fans! A bit of a coincidence that he buys Fulham at the same time as doing that deal???
[quote author=Forever Fulham link=topic=32314.msg426872#msg426872
A curse in that the absence of relegation means there's less incentive for an NFL owner to spend the money to make the team more competitive.
[/quote]
Tell that to KHAN.... didnt he replace the whole team for under performing last season
Quote from: Artful Dodger on September 03, 2013, 07:23:58 AM
I don't believe Khan knows a thing about proper football and hasn't uttered a single phrase so far that suggests he knows anything about football. That won't make him a bad owner, but it does make me wonder what his interest is and I fear it is more about promoting the Jaguars than about Fulham FC. He has just signed the Jaguars to a 3 year deal to appear at Wembley and he wants to make sure Wembley is full of Jaguar fans! A bit of a coincidence that he buys Fulham at the same time as doing that deal???
Arful, why do you think Khan knows nothing about soccer (football)? At what age did he come over from Pakistan? Don't they play that game over there? Why do you assume he knows nothing of the game? That runs counter to common sense and intuition. If you are going to spend several hundred million acquiring a club, wouldn't you study as much as you can about the club, the game, the competition, at least broad strokes rules concepts, what the revenue sources are, what the risks are, how teams tend to better their respective positions, etc? You make it seem as if he cares only for filling Wembley with fans for his Jaguars' occasional London game setting. I understand your frustration over our current hapless on-pitch form, and that we haven't secured quality players in key positions of need yet. But you seem to be projecting a lot of ignorance and indifference upon the new owner without much evidence to support it. He just bought the club. He cleared the deck of debt. Can you blame him for taking a slower more cautious approach to player acquisition at the outset of his ownership? Give him a little honeymoon period before you go characterizing him as indifferent and uninformed. Again, he has said all of the right things. Now he's watching and evaluating.
We should all be relieved he brings so much personal wealth. That means there is at least the opportunity for big acquisitions going forward. He might be taking counsel from Mr. Cheapskate, MAF for all we know. Or Alistair the CPA.
Quote from: Deanothefulhamfan on September 03, 2013, 07:41:51 AM
[quote author=Forever Fulham link=topic=32314.msg426872#msg426872
A curse in that the absence of relegation means there's less incentive for an NFL owner to spend the money to make the team more competitive.
Tell that to KHAN.... didnt he replace the whole team for under performing last season
[/quote]
Yes, good point, Dean. He's the right kind of owner, not content to idly sit by and collect his cut. He wants to win. He wants to put a winning product on the field/pitch. Your observation suggests a commitment to excellence, rather than settling for less. To me, that indicates qualities in an owner to be appreciated, revered even. In any event, if you knew nothing about the man other than he has a personal wealth at least twice what MAF has, wouldn't that single fact be enough to get you excited? He's no dilettante. He does his homework. Invests in infrastructure, and takes a hand's on approach to the team's prospects. But it's so early in his ownership. Too early to be wringing hands and casting aspersions.
Going back to the original question, all the Jacksonville fans disappeared after a week or so. I'd totally forgotten about them and I expect they've forgotten about us.
Let's ask them. Jacksonville Jaguars' fans: Speak up.
There are a number of Fulham FC fans unhappy with our current style of play, unhappy with our manager, Martin Jol, unhappy with early results, unhappy with the new owner for not righting all perceived wrongs by now. What say you?
Quote from: Fulham76 on September 02, 2013, 10:24:41 PM
Quote from: Fulham Tup North on September 02, 2013, 10:18:02 PM
049:gif There is a lot of ill feeling on here at the moment. Come on guys, whether you love or hate JOL (or just put up with him), we are ALL Fulham fans. Can we calm down a bit on all this slagging each other off just because someone disagrees with another's opinions?
Come on chaps...... chins up!! 082.gif
COYW
I assume the Jacksonville fans no nothing about football or Fulham or transfer deadline day, just like their owner.
And there is little evidence that MaF knew anything about football before he bought us, you going to slag him off now? Please, start and see how far you get.
I am fed up with fans on here slagging off owners of teams, especially our very own, with pure conjecture and malice. If you have something concrete then put it up.
Remember, if this is a sideways slap at Jol, then Khan inherited him from MaF.
I think if you asked a Jagwaars fan the big difference is that the Jagwaars have both an offence and defence where as at Fulham we have a defence with no offence to speak off. Hence why we are a little negative.
Quote from: Deanothefulhamfan on September 03, 2013, 02:48:10 AM
They probably felt exactly the same last season when they finished bottom....
Jaguar fans may have been disappointed with their bottom-place finish last year, but the level of anxiety and worry on their part was (and is) de minimis, as there is no death sentence -- i.e., relegation -- in the NFL for finishig last; in fact, the last place team gets first pick in the next year's player draft!
Quote from: RPhillips on September 03, 2013, 02:13:00 PM
Quote from: Deanothefulhamfan on September 03, 2013, 02:48:10 AM
They probably felt exactly the same last season when they finished bottom....
Jaguar fans may have been disappointed with their bottom-place finish last year, but the level of anxiety and worry on their part was (and is) de minimis, as there is no death sentence -- i.e., relegation -- in the NFL for finishig last; in fact, the last place team gets first pick in the next year's player draft!
So what's the incentive for finishing other than last?
Quote from: Holders on September 03, 2013, 02:16:59 PM
Quote from: RPhillips on September 03, 2013, 02:13:00 PM
Quote from: Deanothefulhamfan on September 03, 2013, 02:48:10 AM
They probably felt exactly the same last season when they finished bottom....
Jaguar fans may have been disappointed with their bottom-place finish last year, but the level of anxiety and worry on their part was (and is) de minimis, as there is no death sentence -- i.e., relegation -- in the NFL for finishig last; in fact, the last place team gets first pick in the next year's player draft!
So what's the incentive for finishing other than last?
Uh-huh
Economic socialism. And NFL teams with losing regular season records also get easier playing schedules in the succeeding season. There IS a correlation between a team with a winning tradition and sales of royalty-bearing trademarked merchandise... And I believe, but am not certain, that teams who get into the playoffs after the regular season get a bigger slice of the TV/Radio rights revenue pie.
In any event, there's been no evidence that any Jags fan has turned his/her back on Fulham after the first few games of the new season. They said their hellos at the outset and are probably just quietly checking in now and then on the standings of their London cousin.
Quote from: WhiteJC on September 03, 2013, 05:23:40 AM
just out of interest how do you feel about Jacksonville?
I don't. GO BILLS.
Quote from: JIMMY D on September 02, 2013, 10:21:20 PM
Yes have to agree. It's been hard to watch the team this year. Still love them always will. But we are in trouble BIG TiME and only a fool could not see that!
We really aren't. It's been all of three matches. Yes, three points isn't six or nine, but it's three points from three fixtures from which we got one point last year. People need to relax.
Right now Jacksonville fans are torn between wanting Blaine Gabbard to show that he's not a total bust and hoping Blain Gabbard is a total bust and in two years they somehow get the top pick in the draft so they can land Jameis Winston to save them all of the NFL from all previous evil transgressions known to human kind.
Can Jameis Winston play right back?
Quote from: jmh on September 03, 2013, 07:52:29 PM
Quote from: JIMMY D on September 02, 2013, 10:21:20 PM
Yes have to agree. It's been hard to watch the team this year. Still love them always will. But we are in trouble BIG TiME and only a fool could not see that!
We really aren't. It's been all of three matches. Yes, three points isn't six or nine, but it's three points from three fixtures from which we got one point last year. People need to relax.
Three matches this season, an awful pre-season and countless dire performances since last October.
Last year we played both Arsenal with 10 men for the majority of the game, they did not have a champions league qualifier either side of the fixture and they also had a lot less players injured. It's a pointless comparison.
Quote from: Jimpav on September 03, 2013, 08:09:28 PM
Quote from: jmh on September 03, 2013, 07:52:29 PM
Quote from: JIMMY D on September 02, 2013, 10:21:20 PM
Yes have to agree. It's been hard to watch the team this year. Still love them always will. But we are in trouble BIG TiME and only a fool could not see that!
We really aren't. It's been all of three matches. Yes, three points isn't six or nine, but it's three points from three fixtures from which we got one point last year. People need to relax.
Three matches this season, an awful pre-season and countless dire performances since last October.
Last year we played both Arsenal with 10 men for the majority of the game, they did not have a champions league qualifier either side of the fixture and they also had a lot less players injured. It's a pointless comparison.
It's a perfectly valid comparison. Arsenal are a better team than us even if we have 11 men on the field and more often than not we'll lose to them. That's just the way it is.
Quote from: sunburywhite on September 03, 2013, 08:06:40 PM
Can Jameis Winston play right back?
:54:
The dude could most likely play RB, LB, CD, keeper, winger and target forward (though not all at once), but he probably has never kicked a spherical ball before - so that could be a small problem. Maybe Fulham can put in a bid next year and see what happens?
Quote from: Holders on September 03, 2013, 02:16:59 PM
Quote from: RPhillips on September 03, 2013, 02:13:00 PM
Quote from: Deanothefulhamfan on September 03, 2013, 02:48:10 AM
They probably felt exactly the same last season when they finished bottom....
Jaguar fans may have been disappointed with their bottom-place finish last year, but the level of anxiety and worry on their part was (and is) de minimis, as there is no death sentence -- i.e., relegation -- in the NFL for finishig last; in fact, the last place team gets first pick in the next year's player draft!
So what's the incentive for finishing other than last?
Not sure if this is a serious question, but I'll answer it anyways. Better team means more tickets sold, more merchandise purchased, and teams get a much larger portion of playoff ticket sales than regular season ticket sales, so achieving playoff games are big business. And, crazy fact, some people want to win.
Quote from: jmh on September 03, 2013, 08:53:47 PM
Quote from: Jimpav on September 03, 2013, 08:09:28 PM
Quote from: jmh on September 03, 2013, 07:52:29 PM
Quote from: JIMMY D on September 02, 2013, 10:21:20 PM
Yes have to agree. It's been hard to watch the team this year. Still love them always will. But we are in trouble BIG TiME and only a fool could not see that!
We really aren't. It's been all of three matches. Yes, three points isn't six or nine, but it's three points from three fixtures from which we got one point last year. People need to relax.
Three matches this season, an awful pre-season and countless dire performances since last October.
Last year we played both Arsenal with 10 men for the majority of the game, they did not have a champions league qualifier either side of the fixture and they also had a lot less players injured. It's a pointless comparison.
It's a perfectly valid comparison. Arsenal are a better team than us even if we have 11 men on the field and more often than not we'll lose to them. That's just the way it is.
We've won and drawn more than we have lost in the last 11 matches against Arsenal.
Trivia aside, the point remains that we are not playing as a team and continue to play negative football with no discernable tactics.
Quote from: Jimpav on September 03, 2013, 09:15:35 PM
Quote from: jmh on September 03, 2013, 08:53:47 PM
Quote from: Jimpav on September 03, 2013, 08:09:28 PM
Quote from: jmh on September 03, 2013, 07:52:29 PM
Quote from: JIMMY D on September 02, 2013, 10:21:20 PM
Yes have to agree. It's been hard to watch the team this year. Still love them always will. But we are in trouble BIG TiME and only a fool could not see that!
We really aren't. It's been all of three matches. Yes, three points isn't six or nine, but it's three points from three fixtures from which we got one point last year. People need to relax.
Three matches this season, an awful pre-season and countless dire performances since last October.
Last year we played both Arsenal with 10 men for the majority of the game, they did not have a champions league qualifier either side of the fixture and they also had a lot less players injured. It's a pointless comparison.
It's a perfectly valid comparison. Arsenal are a better team than us even if we have 11 men on the field and more often than not we'll lose to them. That's just the way it is.
We've won and drawn more than we have lost in the last 11 matches against Arsenal.
Trivia aside, the point remains that we are not playing as a team and continue to play negative football with no discernable tactics.
It's true that we've done well against Arsenal in recent years, but the fact remains that nobody involved with Fulham should be going into any given season looking at the fixture list, trying to figure out how to get to any reasonable target number of points (whether your target is the oft-discussed 40 points or 50 points that might reasonably get us into the top half) and have either fixture against Arsenal as one from which you're expecting to get some of those points.
The tactics haven't been great, I agree, but it's not like it's December 29th and we're 11 points from safety. It's been three matches and we have a reasonable number of points from those three matches. We haven't had any home matches that we should expect to be winning. There's no reason to panic.
That's fair enough, a lot can happen in the next 9 months and hopefully that will include a chance for us to account for ourselves against Arsenal or one of the other big 4.
Like you say it's probably a bit too early to be panicking just yet. Hopefully Jol will be able to muffle the alarm bells with a convincing win over West Brom.
Look Jag fans are going to feel the same as us as they are human beings. They may live in the USA but they basically have the same emotions